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Where are the Gen 5’s?
Posted: 15 March 2013 05:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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None of the Genesis stuff should be in DSF format,. it should all be in DUF format,.. or Poser CR2.(from the DSON poser versions)

Is it possible that you’ve installed the Poser versions,. if so,. those will show up in the smart content browser, but because those are made to be loaded using the Poser DSON converter, ..they wont load into Cararra,. Only the DUF versions will load

That would be easier if DAZ would make clear which files are Poser Only and which are Studio Only. They used to before they screwed up the website. Now you can no longer tell them to not show Poser downloads, heck you can’t even sort your itemized history these days. I used to face palm at some of the issues people have had with DAZ in the past. It was a simple, easy to understand and utilize system. But since the reconstruction, some of the most basic necessities of a smooth operation seem to have been tossed out the window.
DAZ3D.com used to be user friendly, regardless of a user’s skill level. Lately that has gone by the wayside, and the Site seems to have been written by those Tech-speak, Leeters we used to make fun of.

When DAZ updates a product, unless you are a Forum-groupie, there is no notification of changes or updates. In the old days, I got emails from DAZ every time they dotted a “t” or crossed an “i” it seems. I was always in-the-know as to when, what and how to update. What was wrong with that? Change has always been inevitable, inaccurate and rarely necessary.

I know that the DIM has check boxes for what to include and exclude, but the DSFs were there (in the Studio directory) long before DIM came to be. I had know idea that the DSF’s were Poser only as in Studio, you can use both on a Genesis product. DUFs will basically update an existing figure while DSFs will add a new figure (I may have that the other way around, but I have made many multi-Genesis scenes using those two filetypes in this manner.

My advice would be to uninstal the genesis figures,. (this is now easy to do with DIM).. then check that none of them show up in the Content / smart content browsers,. then re-install only the DS versions of genesis and the gen5 figures.

I am a bit skeptical on that, but I will give that a try. I don’t want you to think I am unwilling to use your advice. I have followed each step, so far. I merely mention being skeptical as I am loathe to lose any productivity in Studio. But I will back them up thoroughly and give it a go. smile

DIM creates a log file,. (Text file) which you can open and read through,. this may give you some idea as to why any product failed to download or install,. other than that,. I’ve not heard of a product downloading successfully,..but then not installing, either automatically, or manually from within DIM.

That’s even more puzzling… DIM’s log says it installed each of the GEN 5’s, but it, in fact, did not.

Any error massages in DIM ?

Only twice, and neither time involved a Gen 5. In both instances, the file in question was retried, and successfully downloaded and installed.

As long as the product has been downloaded,. and either the option to install after downloading is enabled, and the folder selected is the correct location for that file type,. then the product should install automatically.
Or,. the auto-install option is disabled,. then the product will be available in the “Ready to install” panel,..and you’d then choose an install location, and hit the install button.

That’s how it is supposed to work, and, in fact, has worked on every other item I have installed using DIM.

By the way, I use the following options:
Ready to Download:
    Download Filters:
      DAZ Studio 4.5 - checked
      DAZ Studio 4 - checked
      DAZ Studio 3 - checked
      DAZ Studio (<3) - checked
      DSON Importer for Poser - unchecked
      Poser 9 - unchecked
      Poser (<9) - checked
    Display Hidden - checked (no idea what this does, but I don’t like surprises)
    Install After Download - checked
Ready to Install:
    Delete Installer Once Installed - unchecked
    Install to where? - Recommended DAZ Studio/Poser Content Folder
    Installs To: C:/Users/Public/Documents/My DAZ 3D Library
    Install Product Updates to their respective “Install To” path(s) - checked

There’s no point in unzipping or extracting the contents of a downloaded Zip file manually to a folder and not using DIM to do that for you,. and it’ll add the product entry to the CMS database at the same time.

Unfortunately, that is the only way I could get the Gen 5’s to work.

I thought the DIM was recently labeled out of Beta, but what I read actually said released in Beta, but it was offered to me about a month before that as a Beta, so I didn’t read it that closely.

I guess I can report this as a bug, but that means putting all the files back exactly as I had them, deleting the whole DIM structure, reinstalling, and trying again so I can (hopefully?) recreate the problem. I really don’t want to do that…  tongue laugh

Hopefully this will wash out in the release.
In the meantime, I will put your tips in motion.

Thanks again for the input. It is, as always, greatly valued.

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Posted: 15 March 2013 06:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Dartanbeck - 15 March 2013 12:18 PM

Okay Stat,
Can I call you Stat?

Ok, first of all, that’s Mr. Stat to you…
No, seriously, I’m just kidding. Stat is great.

I read most of your post and I am working through some changes at the moment, 3DAGE has some interesting points I’m looking into and a few ideas I sprouted on my own (hey, that’s an accomplishment these days, let me tell you).

I understand dog issues. I have always considered my priorities to be Family, Pets, Computers, Friends, then whatever else life throws.

I have a Husky and she’s always coming up with something for me to do that’s more important than lunch or war.

I am glad you are so upbeat and ready to help. Those are dwindling quantities in this day and age (or maybe in this neighborhood, hard to tell).

I’ll get back to you later if more issues irrupt or if I run aground on any of this. Thanks!

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Posted: 16 March 2013 12:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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I agree with your remarks about the new store. I do realize that they were having to devote way too much time (and duct tape! lol) to the old store and forums to keep it working, and still have it crash from time to time - and feel for their frustration in that. Still not sure they made the right decision on what product to choose for a store/forum format if this is the best they could do in this much time. We used to be able to hide all MacOS products - not now - and it’s a bit of a pain. And I, too, hate the lack of identification as to which files you need for what, with the new system. It’s all to confusing and that can have the effect of scaring away potential customers. It just plain sucks!

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Posted: 16 March 2013 06:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Well, I just proved that the Genesis figures require the DSF files in Studio. I ran a search on *.dsf and deleted all of my dsf files to the recycle bin. I then started Studio and Genesis will not load in textured format. All you get are the Bounding Boxes. I then restored all the dsf’s to their original location and restarted Studio. The Genesis figure loads as normal. Thus, the dsf’s are required for Studio and must be endured in Carrara unless you have no plans for using Genesis in Carrara and no plans for using Studio. Hopefully the Carrara Devs will get it sorted, because its quite distracting to have duplicate figures.

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Posted: 17 March 2013 03:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Hi Staticdrifter smile

perhaps I’ve written something badly, or you’ve picked it up wrong,.. but,... DSF is (Daz Studio Format)

Carrara 8.5 (BETA) will read and load DUF files. DSF is also DUF or DSON Daz3D formats.
they’re all new,.. and all still confusing.

you may have two different versions of the products installed,.  that would also give you two icons for those products.

My advice is to Uninstall those genesis products using the “Daz Install Manager” (DIM)
not by manually selecting and removing files by type.

Check that they’re gone from your program browsers.

install the Daz Studio version of the Genesis figures.

Check that the figures show in your programs.

I think the issue is that you may have installed the Daz Studio versions,.. and the Poser DSON versions,. Both of these will show icons in the carrara browser,. since one product is Daz , and one is Poser CR2 (see pic)

Having two version installed,. is the only reason you would have two icons showing up

you’ll also notice that the basic male and female are the only doubled icons in that folder. (Installed as an example)

Also,.. bear in mind that we’re all using a Beta version, so it’s not fully developed.

Hope it helps smile

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Posted: 17 March 2013 05:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Ah, well, a miscommunication. That would explain much. I had only one location for my Genesis stuff, after cleaning up my latest mess here. I made sure of that. I spent many hours (with energy boosters, cold packs, electricity surges, and caffeine to keep me at it, man I’m gonna pay for this one) cleaning up my latest goof, but I now have the locations clean, and tidy. I uninstalled everything via the DIM, then uninstalled the DIM, then cleared out and deleted every directory that the uninstalls left behind. The I did the same procedure with every Genesis item in Studio, regardless of it being affected by the earlier problems.
I reinstalled DIM, checked and double-checked the settings so that they duplicate what I had before.
Now, though, there are 366 items that will not install… “Install Failed!”
In the log I get lines similar to this:

Installing product : Bug Hunt
Could not extract file : C:/Users/Public/Documents/My DAZ 3D Library/Runtime/WebLinks/DAZ Productions, Inc/DAZ Free Weekly Download.pzs

So, I tracked down the zip file for, in this case, “Bug Hunt”.
I then opened the zip in an archive manager so I could see a list all of its files.
I went to the location, in My DAZ 3D Library, where these files should have unzipped to, only to find them all in their proper place.
So, I compared the files in place, to the files in the zip. They were all identical files, no corruption during extraction, no problems at all.

I did this for about 50 zips that were labeled as “Install Failed!”. I figured that was a pretty good number for assuming they were all clean. I cannot understand why they failed.

And, not one of the failed files was a Genesis figure or Genesis related content.

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Posted: 18 March 2013 07:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Do I need to repeat the Scotty quote again? wink

Dump DIM. My methods may be archaic by the new DAZ standard but guess what? I don’t have these issues.
Right now I am running 21 runtimes and the studio “my library”. Most everything loads and works with out error; I have a few items I still have to chase down textures for I blame bad runtime calls.

And considering I have 165gig of content and am working on retiring/archiving older content, It’s not like I wont have to reinstall a few hundred items. As in I have retired the old Mil3 preschoolers, but I want the best clothes to convert to Kid 4. The best way I found to do it was to just build/install to a new runtime and delete the old one. I intend to do the same for mil2 and 3 figures.

I have never made it a secret I don’t trust CMS, I don’t need help organizing my content and I most assuredly don’t need help downloading and installing it. It has always been my philosophy if you want something done right, do it yourself.  wink

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Posted: 18 March 2013 12:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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DIM might work nicely with CMS, but the two are not the same.
Probably the best way to reinstall your Gen 3 kids clothes would be to use the DIM to make a new runtime folder for them. From that point forward, you can use the DIM to update, uninstall, check the readme for where the textures got installed, etc.,

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Posted: 20 March 2013 02:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Ok, I solved the problem (my bad, when I cleaned out the old folders, I left the ini file in there and that caused a major snafu). I have everything loading properly now, at least as proper as DIM can. I kinda want to go along with ManStan on this though. Allowing DIM to load everything still leaves many files in the wrong place. DAZ still doesn’t have things in order here, I guess.

I mean, I have a Library folder with a Runtime folder and a Content folder. Inside the content folder is another Runtime Folder and another Content folder, and inside that is yet another Runtime folder.

In addition, DIM has provided me with three folders containing Aiko 3 Clothes and four containing Stephanie 3 clothes. The problem here, is that I don’t know how the folders are going to load until I tell them to, and If I rearrange the folders to better organize my content, then DIM no longer knows where that content is, so it cannot properly update it.

My DAZ items, at least the ones DIM will load, number just about 1500 in 131,368 files, contained in 19,632 folders. That’s just DAZ products which account for approximately 35% of my currently installed 3D content items. That’s a lot of rearranging, and one mistake can set the whole thing on fire.

I enjoy the speed at which the DIM gets things done, but I wish they would consider adding a feature which lets you set the structure of your Library, Content, and Runtime folders (I know complete autonomy here would be useless, as well as disastrous, but picked from a small list of the most common structures). Then, as it is installing, it could flag, and not install, any content which doesn’t match your configuration. Or, it could load those files into a separate Library, which the user can name, allowing you to handle these non-conformist files as you wish. These would not have uninstallers, but that’s the way with most, if not all, non-DAZ content anyway, so users would be quite used to that.

Better still, in addition to the above changes, add in a function that allows the DIM to install non-DAZ content (zip, rar, exe, etc.. from other creators) without uninstallers, but that fit the same structure you chose above, and deals with non-conforming structures in the same manner as outlined above.

It would not be that big of an add to the current DIM to do something along these lines, because as great as DIM could be if fixed, it could be greater if it could be used for all (well, a great majority of) content.

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Posted: 20 March 2013 02:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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So, I have my content in order, Carrara is showing it in the right spot (most of it), I still have some items showing two icons, namely Victoria 5, Stephanie 5, and Michael 5, but at least they are there, now. Better to have two than none, eh?

I am going to trod on with getting to know Carrara, now, and I wanted to thank you guys all for your input and advice. It has helped a lot.

3DAGE, your a very patient person, and I am grateful for your help.
Dartanbeck, you are a font of information, and I know we didn’t work through all the questions and comments. I will reread the thread over the next few days, and see what I missed.
ManStan, I’m curious about the “Scotty quote”, but I think I know what it is…something to do with intelligent life, I suspect.
Everyone else, thanks for your help.

Let’s get rendering!

Ummm, where can I get good information on deformers?

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Posted: 20 March 2013 05:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Hi Static drifter smile

Good to see you’re getting somewhere,. but if you still have two icons, then you missed something.

Allowing DIM to load everything still leaves many files in the wrong place

Can you elaborate in that,..
DIM will only install files to the location you direct it to, whether that’s a Content Library or a Runtime folder

I have a Library folder with a Runtime folder and a Content folder. Inside the content folder is another Runtime Folder and another Content folder, and inside that is yet another Runtime folder.

Can you make a note of the products inside those folders,. then they can be updated to install correctly.

in the mad rush to get the entire store converted,. (still a WIP) there have been a few products which weren’t checked thoroughly enough, and got through,. most have been updated,. so it’s worth unintalling and updating those products.

In addition, DIM has provided me with three folders containing Aiko 3 Clothes and four containing Stephanie 3 clothes. The problem here, is that I don’t know how the folders are going to load until I tell them to, and If I rearrange the folders to better organize my content, then DIM no longer knows where that content is, so it cannot properly update it.

I think you and Stan are both misunderstanding what DIM is and does.

firstly,. developers don’t develop products in a random fashion,. they have to follow a defined set of folders so that the user can easily install and use that product in DS or Poser.

To “Organize your content” does not mean manually rearranging files. (which usually breaks links between the product files)
You can organize your main Runtime or Library folders, the way you want,. and have as many as you want,.. and use dim to install products into those locations.

As far as organising the “visual display” of content,,. you can use Daz Studio (category view) to create “virtual” categories,. then place content (Virtually) into those categories,..
All without moving a single file,. and all without breaking the links between any product files.

You select which folder which DIM installs products to,. and you can set up as many “Install locations” as you want,.
as long as you use DIM to install a product,., two things will happen.

1,/ DIM creates an entry for that product,. so that it can be updated,.. or uninstalled.
2./ DIM will add the products metadata to the CMS database.

That CMS Database info, supplies the “Smart content” tab’s in DS and Carrara 8.5 BETA,. with the product thumbnails.

So in Carrara, or DS,. ..after installing a product,. it will either show up in the Smart content tab, or the Content Tab


You lost me completely when you asked about installing products to a custom folder layout for your runtime.

Products are created using a “FIXED” folder structure,. if you deviate in a folder name,. then that product will be rejected by Daz3D, because it wont work for the user.

So the folder structure isn’t something that developers can ignore,. they need to work to the existing Runtime / Libraries structure
it’s also really not advisable to install products and then move files to a location which you feel is better,.. for whatever reason.
Use DIM to install the product “Exactly” where you want it.

As for Stan, and the paranoia with using CMS,..
Two questions,..

1./ What important information from your computer system,...could (potentially) be of use to Daz3D
2./ with the option to work Off-Line,. and the ability to work while unconnected to the internet,.. when / how would this information be transferred.


To install third party “Zip” files,. those Zip files would need to be made to work in DIM, in the same way that Daz3D have been converting all of the products in the store into ZIP.
It’s not some new “feature” which needs to be added to DIM,. it’s the Zips.

Lastly,. DIM is a first release,. it’s a “beta” and it’s being updated to allow it to install products for Bryce, Carrara, and other software.
so,. it’s by no means a finished product.
I’m glad you’re seeing some potential in using it.
 
smile

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Posted: 20 March 2013 06:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Oh I know what DIM does, but it doesn’t do what I can do and that is double check content before install. That is why my runtimes run smoothly and I don’t need uninstallers. Zips I unzip, check folders and load to carrara before installing to my runtimes. Installers I install to a dummy folder to do the same thing.

3DAGE you know as well as I do the DS content folder is a drop it where you like folder structure. Every time I have this sorted and delete all the extraneous folders the next time I install something it’s a mess again.

And I can’t get in to my opinion of CMS it would just get this post pulled as my opinion of it has been so many times in the past.

Now let me show you something that would bring DIM to it’s knees, my V4 zips folder; note this is just up to “D”. The folder is 7gig.

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Posted: 20 March 2013 10:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Hi Stan smile

My Daz Library folder, where I’ve been installing products using DIM, is just over 80gb so far,
so,. DIM would handle your V4 stuff easily. ...It’s what it’s built to do.

One benefit of using DIM , is to allow you to “manage” where products are installed.
You create a folder,. you install content there,.

but it doesn’t do what I can do and that is double check content before install.

I don’t see why being able to open the zip archive and see the compressed files,.. before extracting them,. is a useful thing.
It doesn’t allow you to change the path structure of the extracted files,. or check that all the files are there. or check that the product will actually function before you install it.

If you really wanted to Download a zip, using DIM,. then Open and view the compressed files,.
then you’d do it exactly the way you’re doing it now., . select the downloaded Zip file and Open it.

If you’re not using Dim to install products,. then the issue you’ll run into when unzipping file manually,. will be with “Smart content”, since you’re not using DIM, to update the CMS database, then you’ll need to have Daz Studio installed,. and open that, after any product installations, to allow it to update the CMS.and supply smart content.

The Daz Studio structure, allows you to “Categorise” content in “virtual”  folders,.. (like short-cuts)
The actual content “files” are installed to your library of choice,. and don’t need to be moved.
Then you’d create a category,. EG: Sci-Fi ,.. then you drag n drop products into that category.

That allows you to re-arrange your products “Virtually” and doesn’t effect the physical files.


Installing content has been a major issue with new users, and some of the most common questions here are from people asking where files should be installed,. or How to organize their runtime folders.

This happens regularly with Carrara too. So if there’s a way to make that installation process easier and simpler to do,... then why not.

So many attempts by people to “organise” their content, result in products not functioning, or products reporting errors when looking for associated files. because the user has moved files or renamed folders etc…

While there may not be a simple solution to the issue of Content and user customisation,  DIM is a step forward in helping to make the Installation and management process easier, and Smart content is a huge leap forward in making content easier and simpler to work with once it’s installed.

If you don’t want to use Genesis or Smart content, or DIM,,.... that’s your choice,.
but bear in mind that Smart content is at the beginning of it’s development, and so is DIM,. eventually there will be more smart content than Not smart,.
Eventually all your 3D software and plugins will be installed using DIM,. ... not just content.

 

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Posted: 20 March 2013 12:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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3DAGE - 20 March 2013 10:45 AM

Hi Stan smile

My Daz Library folder, where I’ve been installing products using DIM, is just over 80gb so far,
so,. DIM would handle your V4 stuff easily. ...It’s what it’s built to do.

One benefit of using DIM , is to allow you to “manage” where products are installed.
You create a folder,. you install content there,.

but it doesn’t do what I can do and that is double check content before install.

I don’t see why being able to open the zip archive and see the compressed files,.. before extracting them,. is a useful thing.
It doesn’t allow you to change the path structure of the extracted files,. or check that all the files are there. or check that the product will actually function before you install it.

Huh? I just open the unzipped folder, go down through checking folders are in the right place,, get to the item to be tested, double click and it opens in carrara. If it opens, and everything loads fine, then I drag and drop it in to the proper runtime. DIM can’t do that. Since I check before I install, I don’t need uninstallers.

3DAGE - 20 March 2013 10:45 AM

If you really wanted to Download a zip, using DIM,. then Open and view the compressed files,.
then you’d do it exactly the way you’re doing it now., . select the downloaded Zip file and Open it.

I don’t need any help downloading. Wouldn’t that be like using a can opener on a screw off lid?

3DAGE - 20 March 2013 10:45 AM

If you’re not using Dim to install products,. then the issue you’ll run into when unzipping file manually,. will be with “Smart content”, since you’re not using DIM, to update the CMS database, then you’ll need to have Daz Studio installed,. and open that, after any product installations, to allow it to update the CMS.and supply smart content.

I don’t use smart content or CMS so no issue to start with.

3DAGE - 20 March 2013 10:45 AM

The Daz Studio structure, allows you to “Categorise” content in “virtual”  folders,.. (like short-cuts)
The actual content “files” are installed to your library of choice,. and don’t need to be moved.
Then you’d create a category,. EG: Sci-Fi ,.. then you drag n drop products into that category.

And PAs doing this is why my library wont stay sorted. I like a hard and fast, everything in it’s place and a place for everything file format.

3DAGE - 20 March 2013 10:45 AM

That allows you to re-arrange your products “Virtually” and doesn’t effect the physical files.

No doesn’t effect any more then making things hard to find.

3DAGE - 20 March 2013 10:45 AM

Installing content has been a major issue with new users, and some of the most common questions here are from people asking where files should be installed,. or How to organize their runtime folders.

Hey, they want it done for them rather then learning how to do it them selves, I don’t care. They’re loss.

3DAGE - 20 March 2013 10:45 AM

This happens regularly with Carrara too. So if there’s a way to make that installation process easier and simpler to do,... then why not.

Because that would be giving the man the fish rather then teaching them to fish.

3DAGE - 20 March 2013 10:45 AM

So many attempts by people to “organise” their content, result in products not functioning, or products reporting errors when looking for associated files. because the user has moved files or renamed folders etc…

Yes.

3DAGE - 20 March 2013 10:45 AM

While there may not be a simple solution to the issue of Content and user customisation,  DIM is a step forward in helping to make the Installation and management process easier, and Smart content is a huge leap forward in making content easier and simpler to work with once it’s installed.

No. Knowing where your content, textures, objects are located makes it easier to work with content. But then for me “working with content” doesn’t just mean loading it. wink

3DAGE - 20 March 2013 10:45 AM

If you don’t want to use Genesis or Smart content, or DIM,,.... that’s your choice,.
but bear in mind that Smart content is at the beginning of it’s development, and so is DIM,. eventually there will be more smart content than Not smart,.
Eventually all your 3D software and plugins will be installed using DIM,. ... not just content.

I use Genesis quite well, CMS and DIM are not a prerequisite.
That is one of my dooms day fears. 

The fact is no matter whom pushes it how hard, you really don’t need them. I certainly don’t.

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Posted: 20 March 2013 12:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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ManStan - 20 March 2013 12:29 PM

I use Genesis quite well, CMS and DIM are not a prerequisite.
That is one of my dooms day fears. 

The fact is no matter whom pushes it how hard, you really don’t need them. I certainly don’t.

I’m certainly not afraid of CMS. I’ve tried it out for a bit, and it is very non-evasive on the system resources. But I agree that both are entirely unnecessary. While I do love the convenience of DIM entirely automating all of those dreaded double-clicks, as long as the other option remains possible, people afraid of it have no need to use it.
I remain a content location finding person over the Smart Content. I just don’t like how it throws everything into the browser window. For people who either don’t know where to look, or that don’t know what goes with what, I think it might be a handy tool. Personally, I’d rather go to the place where the loader files reside and load from there.

I noticed now that I still have to get used to the new library system before I judge it further. All of the folders that I thought would contain files appear as empty in 8.5beta - so I guess PAs should feel free to mess up that structure all they want, if Daz is going to let them anyways. I have a feeling that the official release will do a better job of hiding unnecessary folders? It would definitely help avoid confusion. I’m still running my runtimes as well - so that’s where I’ve been going to - since I know that better.

My report card so far:
All in all, DIM and CMS are not needed to run content in 8.5 beta.
DIM just rocks, and I don’t think my mind will ever change on that front. I could install stuff in my sleep if it wasn’t so darned fast! No more double-clicky, answer a million check boxes and ok buttons for this guy!
CMS - I guess I could see where some might use it - but it’s just not for me.

However, it still seems to me that, to get the best resulting service from DIM would be to use it to install everything - so you benefit from all that it has to offer - which is very beneficial. You can always keep what you have and dump it off on another drive if you’re afraid to lose it.

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