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since when is speculating or wishful thinking forbidden at daz place?
Posted: 17 March 2013 08:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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chohole - 17 March 2013 07:29 AM

DAZ 3D staff rarely read the forums, so, whether there is one or 12 threads on the same subject, it is doubtful that they are actually seeing the criticism that is being leveled at them. You should remember that the forums are here for the forum members, not for DAZ 3D Staff. So the only people you are expressing your feeling to are other forum members.

When criticism posted in the forums contains inaccuracies or assigns inaccurate and potentially damaging unsubstantiated speculaltive thoughts as fact, then it will indeed be removed.

It has been said many times that if you have something that you feel the need to communicate to DAZ 3D, then you do need to contact DAZ 3D to do that, by using the support system.

We do—and we get ignored. Or we get told that the problem was solved to DAZ’s satisfaction, but not nearly enough to the customer’s. Like I said, Fixme12 asked a very direct question and I gave him a very direct answer, and you immediately took offense at it. THAT’S what I meant by “thin-skinned”—you could have left it between him and I, but you chose to insert yourself into it and make an issue out of it, something I don’t see the admins on the other sites doing, or at least not nearly to the extent DAZ does.

As for DAZ not reading the forum posts—believe me, WE KNOW. Or should I say, you are very selective about what you appear to read and what you don’t. Criticisms and complaints get scrubbed and draw a warning; anything else is pretty much ignored.

Like I said, Fixme12 asked a very honest and direct question, and I gave him a very direct and honest answer. Inserting yourself into the conversation and making an issue out of it only proves my point. Sending me more warnings only proves my point. I wasn’t intending to do anything more than answer his question—YOU’RE the one who has dragged this issue out to this extent by doing EXACTLY what I said DAZ would do.

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Posted: 17 March 2013 08:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Sarsifus - 17 March 2013 08:09 AM
HeraldOfFire - 17 March 2013 06:56 AM

Is this going anywhere besides the gutter? If you have complaints, then make them. Venomous posts like this just inflame people on both sides with nothing constructive coming out of it. The majority of removed criticism posts tended to be duplicates of existing threads. Contrary to popular belief, we don’t really need twelve threads on the same topic as happened late last year.

Thanks for proving my point—this ISN’T venomous, it’s truth. Fixme12 asked a very appropriate question, and I gave him a very honest and accurate answer.

You gave him your version of the truth, as you see it. As already mentioned, many of the posts removed were duplicates of existing threads, some of which were merged into one. There have been plenty of long-running posts filled with criticisms which you’ve either conveniently forgotten about or simply chose not to mention because it doesn’t support your argument. As mentioned, last year when a lot of changes were made the forums were filled with them, one of which went on for countless pages before eventually being closed (yes, closed not deleted) because it was turning into a grilling rather than a constructive argument.

I have no problem with people complaining about anything, but there are good ways and bad ways to go about it. Simply whining won’t get anywhere unless you give points on what exactly you’re unhappy about. You say you’re unhappy with Daz’s attitude, but that’s an extremely broad topic with no real way to prove that it’s changed or any way to appease those who you claim were wronged.

I’m not so much leaping to their defense as I am scratching my head trying to put my finger on exactly what it is you’re complaining about and how you expect them to fix it.

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Posted: 17 March 2013 08:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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HeraldOfFire - 17 March 2013 08:23 AM
Sarsifus - 17 March 2013 08:09 AM
HeraldOfFire - 17 March 2013 06:56 AM

Is this going anywhere besides the gutter? If you have complaints, then make them. Venomous posts like this just inflame people on both sides with nothing constructive coming out of it. The majority of removed criticism posts tended to be duplicates of existing threads. Contrary to popular belief, we don’t really need twelve threads on the same topic as happened late last year.

Thanks for proving my point—this ISN’T venomous, it’s truth. Fixme12 asked a very appropriate question, and I gave him a very honest and accurate answer.

You gave him your version of the truth, as you see it. As already mentioned, many of the posts removed were duplicates of existing threads, some of which were merged into one. There have been plenty of long-running posts filled with criticisms which you’ve either conveniently forgotten about or simply chose not to mention because it doesn’t support your argument. As mentioned, last year when a lot of changes were made the forums were filled with them, one of which went on for countless pages before eventually being closed (yes, closed not deleted) because it was turning into a grilling rather than a constructive argument.

I have no problem with people complaining about anything, but there are good ways and bad ways to go about it. Simply whining won’t get anywhere unless you give points on what exactly you’re unhappy about. You say you’re unhappy with Daz’s attitude, but that’s an extremely broad topic with no real way to prove that it’s changed or any way to appease those who you claim were wronged.

I’m not so much leaping to their defense as I am scratching my head trying to put my finger on exactly what it is you’re complaining about and how you expect them to fix it.

Like I said, dude, I had no intention of doing anything other than giving Fixme12 an answer to his question. I had no intention of dredging up ancient history and rehashing this whole issue again. Believe me, I’m as tired of the issue as you probably are, but neither am I afraid to speak the truth (even if, as you say, it’s “my version of it”). I just think it’s hilarious that in the last hour or so, DAZ has played out the exact role I just got done describing.

 

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Posted: 17 March 2013 09:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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I will say that maybe DAZ does not read the forums, but I do know that they are informed as to what is going on here because I have received PM’s form DAZ personnel about things I spoke of only in the forum.

I also believe some people are being harsh because they may feel they are being ignored by whatever it is they have to say. If there was a part of the forum where one could voice their concern and someone from DAZ would do what they can to rectify or simply explain the reason for this or that, then I feel that would show DAZ does want to hear and communicate with the customer base.I think it is simply no communication from DAZ that upsets the masses.

But I will say that there have been issues that DAZ immediately communicated on. I am not going to try and point out whatever this or that was, I just know it to be fact. So the ability is there to communicate and it also proves that DAZ does catch wind of what is talked about in the forum. If DAZ would open themselves up a bit more to answer people’s concerns, I feel it would lessen the harsh criticisms they receive from some of their members. But there are some people who no matter what is done are going to complain and will never be satisfied.

Just my opinion.

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Posted: 17 March 2013 09:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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I have discovered from past personal experience that if any business provides me with bad service AND is not receptive to discussing that bad service and fixing the problem, then that business will not longer receive my patronage and I’ll find another business to go to.  No need for me to stand outside the business and yell at other patrons how terrible the business is.  The other patrons will either figure it out for themselves and go somewhere else or they will receive better service than I did.  Works for me.  *shrug*

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Posted: 17 March 2013 09:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Muon Quark - 17 March 2013 09:12 AM

I have discovered from past personal experience that if any business provides me with bad service AND is not receptive to discussing that bad service and fixing the problem, then that business will not longer receive my patronage and I’ll find another business to go to.  No need for me to stand outside the business and yell at other patrons how terrible the business is.  The other patrons will either figure it out for themselves and go somewhere else or they will receive better service than I did.  Works for me.  *shrug*

Same here, but working in retail management i have found that customers love to spread their bad experiences to anyone that will listen. Unfortunately, their bad experience is usually that, “THEIR” bad experience. They can’t seem to fathom that anyone else is having a difference experience from their own, and we get feedback all the time that proves that and it’s the same here in the forums unfortunately.

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Posted: 17 March 2013 10:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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chohole - 17 March 2013 05:17 AM

Really ????????????????

Yep, I have a number of them.

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Posted: 17 March 2013 12:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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I have found in my limited experience that people have complained and it was addressed in as timely a manner as can be expected from a company who tries to accomodate their customers to the best of their ability with the limited funds and manpower that they have.

A number of times they have tried to innovate and gotten a little ahead of themselves but overall I am pleased with the products they have made and with the progress they have made.

The forums are better now as is the shopping experience. I also appreciate the DAZ Installer now that it is operational and understand there are a few kinks that are being ironed out as soon as they can be accommodated.

Dear DAZ,

You’re doing okay by me. Just FYI.

Love, RKane_1

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Posted: 17 March 2013 06:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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chohole - 17 March 2013 07:29 AM

DAZ 3D staff rarely read the forums, so, whether there is one or 12 threads on the same subject, it is doubtful that they are actually seeing the criticism that is being leveled at them. You should remember that the forums are here for the forum members, not for DAZ 3D Staff. So the only people you are expressing your feeling to are other forum members.

Now, my memory might be a bit blurry, wouldn’t it be more precise to say “DAZ 3D staff rarely read the forums any more.”? Because I seem to recall a time about one or two years ago, when there were large threads going on to accompany sales and there were people like DAZ_Kevin and DAZ_Skondris (I am not quite sure I remember those names correctly :D) who did kinda, sorta kept track of things, occasionally even reacted to customer input when i.e. a sale was buggy. And I do seem to recall some heated debates involving Randall Lloyd who was seeking ideas for new DAZ products.


That’s why I believe that while, indeed, large parts of this board are more or less pointless today, people still trying to use these boards is more due to habit than perceived effectiveness. Give it a few more months and I would assume that people start to accept that one cannot communicate with DAZ using these boards (or - that’s just my opinion, of course - any means at all) any more and will stop.

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Posted: 18 March 2013 12:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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fixme12 - 11 March 2013 10:19 AM

since when is speculating or wishful thinking forbidden at daz place?

Richard Haseltine - 11 March 2013 12:53 PM

When it is presented as fact, potentially confusing readers who don’t have the poster’s measure.

For me, Richard’s answer to fixme12’s question covers everything that needed to be said.


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Posted: 18 March 2013 11:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Deleted - don’t care about this post.

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Posted: 18 March 2013 11:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Take it from me, who is one who “lurks” but rarely posts, what is tending to chase people away from the forums, or at least stop them from posting when they do visit, is that some forum members feel that it is necessary to post the same sentiments in many different threads in the forums, sentiments which are held by a small minority who feel that they speak for the silent majority.

You have made your feelings clear, time after time, so now let those who do not feel the same way as you enjoy their forum visits instead of having to see the same negative posts repeated ad nauseum.

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