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International EULA suggestions
Posted: 10 June 2012 11:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Sockratease - 10 June 2012 08:49 AM
Jazzmin - 10 June 2012 08:40 AM

...so if someone who primarily speaks German who doesn’t understand English, let alone read English, then they use the mesh in a game, there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Then there’s the Native English speaking people who cant understand English, let alone read English.


Do they get a pass too?  </sarcasm>

LOL… if those native English speakers are within the US then they are under US laws, so they won’t get a pass.  But, I’‘m not talking about a pass for anyone… I’m talking about fairness.  If you’re going to sell your wares around the globe then you better learn to communicate in many different languages.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 11:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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There are those of us non-US citizens who speak and read English perfectly proficiently. We’re called “the English” and it’s fair to say that it’s our primary language. Of course, Americans do some ghastly things with it but we can still understand them almost all of the time.

Actually icprncss, I think the point the OP is making is that items aren’t being bought or used under US law. If the EULA isn’t valid, it makes no difference whether the buyer agrees to it or not. Legally, it may be a valid point - jurisdiction is certainly not as clear-cut as where it was sold. It’s definitely not as clear-cut as ‘you agreed to the EULA so that makes it valid.’ That’s just circular thinking. This may be an issue where Daz (and plenty of others) have been comfortably flying under the radar for years, simply because they’re too small to be noticed. Interesting.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 12:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Very interesting disucussion, did a quick look at it. And found the following for EULA’s here in the Netherlands (from an article written by a highly regarded dutch IT laywer).

It says nothing about the languauge except that it needs to be understandable for the customer. However if found this part, which i found very interesting:


(Google translate)
Voidability of the EULA terms, they may not unreasonably onerous. For consumers and end users there is also a black and gray list of “banned” provisions. A EULA provision can thus be destroyed. Think of the exclusion of liability or a stipulation that only a Californian court may decide a dispute.


From the DAZ EULA:


b. Governing Law, Jurisdiction, and Venue. This Agreement is
governed by the laws of the State of Utah. Jurisdiction and venue for the
enforcement of this Agreement shall be found exclusively in the courts
within Utah County, State of Utah.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 12:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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jerham - 10 June 2012 12:34 PM

Very interesting disucussion, did a quick look at it. And found the following for EULA’s here in the Netherlands (from an article written by a highly regarded dutch IT laywer).

It says nothing about the languauge except that it needs to be understandable for the customer. However if found this part, which i found very interesting:


(Google translate)
Voidability of the EULA terms, they may not unreasonably onerous. For consumers and end users there is also a black and gray list of “banned” provisions. A EULA provision can thus be destroyed. Think of the exclusion of liability or a stipulation that only a Californian court may decide a dispute.


From the DAZ EULA:


b. Governing Law, Jurisdiction, and Venue. This Agreement is
governed by the laws of the State of Utah. Jurisdiction and venue for the
enforcement of this Agreement shall be found exclusively in the courts
within Utah County, State of Utah.

The following is sarcasm, so please refrain from making the poster feel bad about what he says.


Well I don’t live in Utah so I’m not sure if they would be able to extradite me to Utah from Missouri/and or Kansas for that type of crime.


Of course I love the state of Utah and it would be disheartening to have to drive around such beauty because of a warrant for my illegally using 3D content, so I guess I will do my best to abide by those laws. See the following video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1UKGgLNL1Y&feature=g-upl

 

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Posted: 10 June 2012 01:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Ledhead - 10 June 2012 12:49 PM

See the following video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1UKGgLNL1Y&feature=g-upl

No!

See this video (mildly offensive!) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gBvYJ21SoQ

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Posted: 10 June 2012 01:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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The governing law bit refers to arguments over the meaning of the EULA. If DAZ decides to sue you for rendering an insufficient number of naked Vickies in temples they will have to go to you, or possibly to the location of your chosen gallery, as I understand it.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 01:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Richard Haseltine - 10 June 2012 01:10 PM

The governing law bit refers to arguments over the meaning of the EULA. If DAZ decides to sue you for rendering an insufficient number of naked Vickies in temples they will have to go to you, or possibly to the location of your chosen gallery, as I understand it.

LOL

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Posted: 10 June 2012 01:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Sockratease - 10 June 2012 01:04 PM
Ledhead - 10 June 2012 12:49 PM

See the following video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1UKGgLNL1Y&feature=g-upl

No!

See this video (mildly offensive!) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gBvYJ21SoQ

Okay, that was funny, but mine is the pics I took in the beautiful state of Utah and some pics in AZ

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Posted: 10 June 2012 01:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Ledhead - 10 June 2012 12:49 PM
jerham - 10 June 2012 12:34 PM

Very interesting disucussion, did a quick look at it. And found the following for EULA’s here in the Netherlands (from an article written by a highly regarded dutch IT laywer).

It says nothing about the languauge except that it needs to be understandable for the customer. However if found this part, which i found very interesting:


(Google translate)
Voidability of the EULA terms, they may not unreasonably onerous. For consumers and end users there is also a black and gray list of “banned” provisions. A EULA provision can thus be destroyed. Think of the exclusion of liability or a stipulation that only a Californian court may decide a dispute.


From the DAZ EULA:


b. Governing Law, Jurisdiction, and Venue. This Agreement is
governed by the laws of the State of Utah. Jurisdiction and venue for the
enforcement of this Agreement shall be found exclusively in the courts
within Utah County, State of Utah.

The following is sarcasm, so please refrain from making the poster feel bad about what he says.


Well I don’t live in Utah so I’m not sure if they would be able to extradite me to Utah from Missouri/and or Kansas for that type of crime.


Of course I love the state of Utah and it would be disheartening to have to drive around such beauty because of a warrant for my illegally using 3D content, so I guess I will do my best to abide by those laws. See the following video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1UKGgLNL1Y&feature=g-upl

 

Do not worry i won’t feel bad, maybe it needed a bit more clarification. And maybe the wrong example smile . I’m not talking about illegal dowloading etc (hate that myself), or going to court with DAZ, but about the international use of the EULA. Consumer protection and laws here are completly different as US laws (do not know how that is between states in the US). Maybe it does not have to be in Dutch (here), but DAZ still has to ” deal”  with the different international laws, which could make the EULA useless.

EDIT:

Richard Haseltine - 10 June 2012 01:10 PM

The governing law bit refers to arguments over the meaning of the EULA. If DAZ decides to sue you for rendering an insufficient number of naked Vickies in temples they will have to go to you, or possibly to the location of your chosen gallery, as I understand it.


Naked vicky’s? .... Only when my wife is not looking haha, do not want to get her mad. Please do not sue me.

 

 

 

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Posted: 10 June 2012 01:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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jerham - 10 June 2012 01:36 PM
Ledhead - 10 June 2012 12:49 PM
jerham - 10 June 2012 12:34 PM

Very interesting disucussion, did a quick look at it. And found the following for EULA’s here in the Netherlands (from an article written by a highly regarded dutch IT laywer).

It says nothing about the languauge except that it needs to be understandable for the customer. However if found this part, which i found very interesting:


(Google translate)
Voidability of the EULA terms, they may not unreasonably onerous. For consumers and end users there is also a black and gray list of “banned” provisions. A EULA provision can thus be destroyed. Think of the exclusion of liability or a stipulation that only a Californian court may decide a dispute.


From the DAZ EULA:


b. Governing Law, Jurisdiction, and Venue. This Agreement is
governed by the laws of the State of Utah. Jurisdiction and venue for the
enforcement of this Agreement shall be found exclusively in the courts
within Utah County, State of Utah.

The following is sarcasm, so please refrain from making the poster feel bad about what he says.


Well I don’t live in Utah so I’m not sure if they would be able to extradite me to Utah from Missouri/and or Kansas for that type of crime.


Of course I love the state of Utah and it would be disheartening to have to drive around such beauty because of a warrant for my illegally using 3D content, so I guess I will do my best to abide by those laws. See the following video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1UKGgLNL1Y&feature=g-upl

 

Do not worry i won’t feel bad, maybe it needed a bit more clarification. And maybe the wrong example smile . I’m not talking about illegal dowloading etc (hate that myself), or going to court with DAZ, but about the international use of the EULA. Consumer protection and laws here are completly different as US laws (do not know how that is between states in the US). Maybe it does not have to be in Dutch (here), but DAZ still has to ” deal”  with the different international laws, which could make the EULA useless.

EDIT:

Richard Haseltine - 10 June 2012 01:10 PM

The governing law bit refers to arguments over the meaning of the EULA. If DAZ decides to sue you for rendering an insufficient number of naked Vickies in temples they will have to go to you, or possibly to the location of your chosen gallery, as I understand it.


Naked vicky’s? .... Only when my wife is not looking haha, do not want to get her mad. Please do not sue me.

 

 

 

I apologize, I was just making a joke. I am sorry you misunderstood where I was coming from. Maybe I need to take at look at how I present a little sarcasm next time to make sure it is what it is and not misunderstood as something that it is not.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 02:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Ledhead no problem. After reading your last post i see i misunderstood, also sorry for that.


However also a nice example about the subject:


DAZ Export:


8. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. The 3-D Model(s) may be subject to the export
controls of the United States Departments of State and Commerce and User
agrees to fully comply with all applicable United States export
regulations governing export, destination, ultimate end user, and other
restrictions relating to the 3-D Models.


Microsoft export :


EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. The software is subject to U.S. export laws. You must comply with all domestic and international export laws and regulations that apply to the software. Such laws impose restrictions on destinations, end users and end use.

I deliberately used the microsoft EULA, this because they had some problems here in Europe a while back)

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Posted: 10 June 2012 03:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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The trouble with threads like this is that it is easy for it to touch on topics of nerves for some people.
Alot of the arguments are the exact same ones that the warez people use to justify their theft. They look for what they believe as being loopholes in the law and feel that as such they are entitled to do what they want.


The EULA is a simple straight forward legal document. So anyone who tries to purposely find holes in it will be held up to a similar regard as a warezer, even if they are not, and the comments made may reflect this. Because it is something that is a sore point for many people.

But DAZ has their lawyers who are well versed in the legal documentation required to run their business, so you can rest assured that the EULA is a valid legal document which can be enforced where and when they wish to do so. It is for everyone’s protection.

Rawn

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Posted: 12 June 2012 02:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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RawArt - 10 June 2012 03:14 PM

The trouble with threads like this is that it is easy for it to touch on topics of nerves for some people.
Alot of the arguments are the exact same ones that the warez people use to justify their theft. They look for what they believe as being loopholes in the law and feel that as such they are entitled to do what they want.


The EULA is a simple straight forward legal document. So anyone who tries to purposely find holes in it will be held up to a similar regard as a warezer, even if they are not, and the comments made may reflect this. Because it is something that is a sore point for many people.

But DAZ has their lawyers who are well versed in the legal documentation required to run their business, so you can rest assured that the EULA is a valid legal document which can be enforced where and when they wish to do so. It is for everyone’s protection.

Rawn

This just comes in handy .... to justify an argument of someones witch has a different meaning it is easy to just accuse or pretend they would be a part of illegal communities !!! the same they do on governments or dictatorships ... those who meaning differ are terrorists !!!! the easiest way to deflect an argument . I would say no wonder that allot of people change side as soon as they turn there brain on, as people do not like to be accused or placed under a regime.

the eula is formulated very complicated there are pages you have to read only to find out what you can not use it for !!! actually a simple way of buisness to be able to change the terms all the time without that people really get aware of changes.
But it could be made simple also the warning before buying !!!!

Sample :
This Product is property of Daz
Purchasing this Product will only allow you to use it in your Personal environment .
you may only use this Product for Renders.
you may only use this product for animations clips.
all other use is Prohibited and can be or will be prosecuted by Law.

as simple as that and I think it would then be better understandable for most people.
also easy to add this in different languages.

Your argument reflects that you must spend allot of time on those Sites to be able do document it this way.
the temptation of grabbing Pirated stuff would be pretty high , so I can also assume that someone who
spends allot of time there also is in property of those. then presents him self to the second group
as merturer , well undercover agent avoiding them to suspect the truth by saying it in a opposite way.

accusing others can easily create a boomerang effect !!!

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Posted: 12 June 2012 03:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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RawArt - 10 June 2012 03:14 PM

The trouble with threads like this is that it is easy for it to touch on topics of nerves for some people.
Alot of the arguments are the exact same ones that the warez people use to justify their theft. They look for what they believe as being loopholes in the law and feel that as such they are entitled to do what they want.


The EULA is a simple straight forward legal document. So anyone who tries to purposely find holes in it will be held up to a similar regard as a warezer, even if they are not, and the comments made may reflect this. Because it is something that is a sore point for many people.

But DAZ has their lawyers who are well versed in the legal documentation required to run their business, so you can rest assured that the EULA is a valid legal document which can be enforced where and when they wish to do so. It is for everyone’s protection.

Rawn

Trouble?  Discussing issues never gets resolved by sticking our head in the sand.  This is a discussion thread and shouldn’t be touching on anyone’s nerves.

Nobody said the EULA isn’t a simple straight-forward legal document.  My point is that it should be available in different languages, so that the non English speaking customers understand what they are agreeing to.  I originally responded in this thread

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/1820/ 

where the OP specifically stated that English is not his mother tongue.  An admin chose to make this thread a new topic.

“Anyone who tries to purposely find holes in it will be held up to a similar regard ass a warezer, even if they are not, and the comments made may reflect this.”  That’s a BS answer and it’s the same thing as saying, “How dare you question the government, that means you’re unpatriotic” and that’s major BS… it’s an answer that comes from someone who is ignorant.  Intelligent, thinking people should always question authority when authority is being abused or is over reaching.  Matter of fact, it is our responsibility to question and make changes when it is within our ability.

Loopholes?  If there is a weakness in the law, you can rest assured that an attorney will find it.  Matter of fact an attorney has a legal duty to do everything within their power to win their client’s case.  That’s just the way our legal system is set up in the US.  Why do you think it’s such a litigious state??

The EULA may be a legal document in the US, but even there English is not a mandatory language.  I’m talking about international law anyway.  If a company sells software outside of the US to customers world wide and they require a legal agreement for its use then, in all fairness, they should put that agreement in the primary language for that customer.  Like I said the other day, Sony has this feature on their website.  The browser picks up the country location and puts the agreement in the proper language.  The customer cannot download updates unless they read and agree.

The bottom line, for me, is fairness.  Plain and simple.  I don’t like to hear that it’s the customers’ responsibility to learn English so they can understand the agreement.  If a company wants the customers’ business then they should do everything in their power to be fair with all of their customers or refrain from doing business in non English speaking countries.

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Posted: 12 June 2012 03:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Jazzmin - 12 June 2012 03:20 AM

My point is that it should be available in different languages, so that the non English speaking customers understand what they are agreeing to.


How many and which languages should it be available in? There are roughly 6500 different languages spoken in the world today, not to mention thousands of dialects.

 


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