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International EULA suggestions
Posted: 10 June 2012 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Um, which EULA?  There are EULA from 2002 forward and has been modified/adapted ever since.  Apart from that, as I understand, the EULA needs to be in each and every language that digital products are sold.  Since DAZ sells, worldwide, they need to update quite a few EULAs.  It would be an unfair advantage to have them in English only, therefore if that is the only language they are/were provided then they are not valid.  The EULA is valid at the time of purchase, so if someone who primarily speaks German who doesn’t understand English, let alone read English, then they use the mesh in a game, there is nothing anyone can do about it.

As I understand, conforming or modifying a mesh for a game would totally change the resolution to low res or another format and it will not be comparable with the original mesh.  The new script will not be the same nor will anyone be able to prove it was the original.  But, visually it will look the same (even if extracted out of the game).  Games usually use there own bone system (see Oblivion)... can you imagine how many Poser meshes have been used in that game, alone, and no one can do anything about it.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 08:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Jazzmin - 10 June 2012 08:40 AM

...so if someone who primarily speaks German who doesn’t understand English, let alone read English, then they use the mesh in a game, there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Then there’s the Native English speaking people who cant understand English, let alone read English.


Do they get a pass too?  </sarcasm>

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Posted: 10 June 2012 09:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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chohole - 10 June 2012 08:26 AM
Ledhead - 10 June 2012 07:21 AM

I understand but in my opinion, if you pay for something you should have the right to use it as you see fit, as long as you are not reselling the product itself, but using the product in an environment like a game, you paid for it, you should be able to use it.


Please read this psrt of the EULA

4. RESTRICTIONS ON COPYING. The 3-D Model(s) is provided for User’s
exclusive use. User does not have the right to provide the 3-D Model(s) to
others in any form or on any media except as set forth in this License
Agreement. The 3-D Model(s) may be copied in whole
or in part for User’s exclusive use. Specifically, you (the User) may copy the
3-D Model(s) onto the storage device of an unlimited number of computers;
provided that all such computers are physically located at your business or,
if you are an individual, your place of residence located at a single specific
street address (or its equivalent). Unauthorized copying of the 3-D Model(s)
is expressly forbidden.

This is an extract from the game license   You first need to purchase this license before you can distibute anything in this manner, and even then, as Arien has already said, it is only a license for products that are “owned” by Daz3D, and does not cover PA items.

You can read the complete EULA here

https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/123940


ANd you can find the License itself in the store here, if you wish to purchase one

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/catalogsearch/result/?q=License

 

Again, the EULA is in English.  In order for it to be valid it needs to be in all languages.  Those English only speakers, take a look at the EULA snipet that Chohole provied, and tell me if you understand?

4. ограничения на копирование. 3-D модели (s), приводится для пользователя исключительного использования. Пользователь не имеют права предоставлять на 3-D модели (s) для других в любой форме или по какой-либо средств массовой информации за исключением случаев, указанных в настоящем лицензионном соглашении . 3-D модели (ы) может быть задействован в целом или частично для пользователя исключительного использования.  Вы сука!

or

4. Beschränkung der VERVIELFÄLTIGUNG. Die 3-D-Modell(s) ist für den exklusiven Gebrauch. Benutzer hat nicht das Recht, die 3-D-Modell(e) zu anderen in irgendeiner Form oder auf eine beliebige media except as set forth in this License Agreement. Die 3-D-Modell(n) können kopiert werden, in whole or in part for User’s exclusive use.  Du Blöde kuh!

or

4. RESTRIÇÕES À CÓPIA. Os modelos 3D(s) é fornecido para uso exclusivo do utilizador. Utilizador não têm o direito de fornecer o modelo 3D(s) aos outros, qualquer forma ou em qualquer material excepto conforme estipulado neste Contrato de Licença . Os modelos 3D(s) pode ser copiado no todo ou em parte para uso exclusivo do usuário.  Você cadela!

or

4. تقييد الاستنساخ. 3-نموذج دال على (ص) تزويد المستخدمين إلى ويقتصر استخدامها. المستخدم لا يملك الحق في تقديم نموذج (3-د) على الآخرين بأي شكل أو بأي وسائل الإعلام إلا ما ورد في اتفاق الترخيص . 3-( د) نموذجي يمكن نقله في كليا او جزئيا عن حصرية استعمال المستخدم.  وليس لك!

or

4. Περιορισμοί σχετικά με την αντιγραφή. Το 3-D μοντέλο(s) παρέχεται για χρήστη αποκλειστική χρήση. Ο χρήστης δεν έχει το δικαίωμα να παρέχει το 3-D μοντέλο(s) σε άλλους σε οποιαδήποτε μορφή ή με οποιοδήποτε μέσο εκτός από όσα ορίζονται στην παρούσα Άδεια Χρήσης . Το 3-D μοντέλο(s) μπορεί να αντιγραφεί στο σύνολό τους ή εν μέρει για χρήστη αποκλειστική χρήση.

Would you agree to these terms that are provided in the installer?

English is my mother language… it all looks Greek to me, lol

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Posted: 10 June 2012 09:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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DAZ is in the US and the laws of the US govern transactions. If people don’t understand the EULA they need to either refrain from buying/using the content or get the terms explained. Not speaking English is not a valid excuse for breaking the EULA.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 09:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Jazzmin - 10 June 2012 08:40 AM

Um, which EULA?  There are EULA from 2002 forward and has been modified/adapted ever since.  Apart from that, as I understand, the EULA needs to be in each and every language that digital products are sold.  Since DAZ sells, worldwide, ..............

Actually DAZ Sells in the USA. People from a worldwide market may shop at DAZ, but as such the DAZ is only required to have the EULA in their official language which is English.
The people who buy at daz from other countries would be required to become aware of what the actual EULA states before they shop. The emphasis is on them to know exactly what they are buying, and how it can be used.
If DAZ opened up a unique website in other countries and makes sales in those countries, then the EULA would have to be written in that language.

 

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Posted: 10 June 2012 09:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Richard Haseltine - 10 June 2012 09:09 AM

DAZ is in the US and the laws of the US govern transactions. If people don’t understand the EULA they need to either refrain from buying/using the content or get the terms explained. Not speaking English is not a valid excuse for breaking the EULA.

I think you’re wrong Richard, that’s an errogant attitude.  DAZ is selling internationally not just in the US where those laws apply.  How is a customer who doesn’t speak English supposed to “refrain fro buying/using the content” if the customer does’t speak English and DAZ doesn’t provide proper translation for the customer.  This is an international legal issue.  I understand that DAZ is in the US, however they are selling world wide.  Check out Sony’s website with regard to official updates for PS3.  The browser detects your location and provides the EULA in the country’s primary language.  You have to accept the agreement before downloading the file.  This is just an example as most providers of digital products will provide such a feature, um, except DAZ?

In DAZs case, the EULA should pop up before the customer buys the product so they are properly informed before giving up their cash and not like it is now where the customer buys the product then gets the EULA with the installer after the purchase.

It’s about fair warning.  This means that each customer should have been given warning or the EULA prior to purchase, so they can make an informed decision.  Even the movie industry gives a warning before purchase.  Since this did not happen… then each customer is actually entitled to a refund of their purchase for the last ten years. 

The way the EULA is presented at this time, it’s a small print on the back page of a contract.  It’s sneaky.  The EULA needs to be available prior to purchase and should be in all languages, just as Sony, Houdini and many other reputable corporation do in their normal business practices in the world.  They provide the contract agreement before purchase.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 09:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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You might have to go and give that same advice to Adobe, Microsoft, and nearly every single other software provider that only gives you the EULA when installing, the way DAZ does. Also, until the website switch over, about 3 weeks ago, DAZ provided information on their usage restrictions and the full EULA in the HELP section, right now links need to be updated.

https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/forums/133380-licensing-and-legal

And there’s even a specific section, created over 2 years ago, on using items on a game, here
https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/123839-can-i-use-daz-3d-s-products-in-a-video-game-that-i-am-producing

So hardly “sneaky” or “small print”, and definitely information that’s been available prior to purchase.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 09:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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RawArt - 10 June 2012 09:14 AM
Jazzmin - 10 June 2012 08:40 AM

Um, which EULA?  There are EULA from 2002 forward and has been modified/adapted ever since.  Apart from that, as I understand, the EULA needs to be in each and every language that digital products are sold.  Since DAZ sells, worldwide, ..............

Actually DAZ Sells in the USA. People from a worldwide market may shop at DAZ, but as such the DAZ is only required to have the EULA in their official language which is English.
The people who buy at daz from other countries would be required to become aware of what the actual EULA states before they shop. The emphasis is on them to know exactly what they are buying, and how it can be used.
If DAZ opened up a unique website in other countries and makes sales in those countries, then the EULA would have to be written in that language.

 

This is an international legal issue.  If you’re right then DAZ needs to lock the IP address of all those countries outside of the US and if one happens to get through then they must actually decline to sell products to them.. I have a funny feeling that most of DAZs customers are not in the US, so that would be like chopping off your nose to spite your face.

Look at how big corporations do business.  Sony, Samsung, HP, Hollywood, Poser, etc provide their EULA in advance and in their customers’ language and they don’t profess to be doing business solely in the US and require their customers to understand that language before they take their money.

There are sites that don’t sell internationally through a lock out during the payment process.  The countries that are accepted will be available in a drop down list.  Easy as that for DAZ if they only want to sell to US customers who primarily speak English.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 10:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Arien - 10 June 2012 09:40 AM

You might have to go and give that same advice to Adobe, Microsoft, and nearly every single other software provider that only gives you the EULA when installing, the way DAZ does. Also, until the website switch over, about 3 weeks ago, DAZ provided information on their usage restrictions and the full EULA in the HELP section, right now links need to be updated.

https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/forums/133380-licensing-and-legal

And there’s even a specific section, created over 2 years ago, on using items on a game, here
https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/123839-can-i-use-daz-3d-s-products-in-a-video-game-that-i-am-producing

So hardly “sneaky” or “small print”, and definitely information that’s been available prior to purchase.

Okay.  I’ll justify with an explanation.  It’s common knowledge that Microsoft and Adobe provide their EULA in different languages in advance of purchase.  Heck, they provide their applications in the language of your choice.  What DAZ has done, to some degree, is sneaky and small print for those who don’t speak English.

How is someone who doesn’t speak English supposed to find the information you provided if the site and forum are only in English?  Besides that fact that the links aren’t even working correctly, as you said.  The EULA has to be updated again, but will not be valid for previous purchases because the current EULA is not contained in those older products.

Your excuses are not valid statements as you are just taking sides without basing your opinion on facts.  I just hope you’re not DAZ attorneys wink

BTW do you know what Genesis means?

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Posted: 10 June 2012 10:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Jazzmin - 10 June 2012 09:02 AM
chohole - 10 June 2012 08:26 AM
Ledhead - 10 June 2012 07:21 AM

I understand but in my opinion, if you pay for something you should have the right to use it as you see fit, as long as you are not reselling the product itself, but using the product in an environment like a game, you paid for it, you should be able to use it.


Please read this psrt of the EULA

4. RESTRICTIONS ON COPYING. The 3-D Model(s) is provided for User’s
exclusive use. User does not have the right to provide the 3-D Model(s) to
others in any form or on any media except as set forth in this License
Agreement. The 3-D Model(s) may be copied in whole
or in part for User’s exclusive use. Specifically, you (the User) may copy the
3-D Model(s) onto the storage device of an unlimited number of computers;
provided that all such computers are physically located at your business or,
if you are an individual, your place of residence located at a single specific
street address (or its equivalent). Unauthorized copying of the 3-D Model(s)
is expressly forbidden.

This is an extract from the game license   You first need to purchase this license before you can distibute anything in this manner, and even then, as Arien has already said, it is only a license for products that are “owned” by Daz3D, and does not cover PA items.

You can read the complete EULA here

https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/123940


ANd you can find the License itself in the store here, if you wish to purchase one

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/catalogsearch/result/?q=License

 

Again, the EULA is in English.  In order for it to be valid it needs to be in all languages.  Those English only speakers, take a look at the EULA snipet that Chohole provied, and tell me if you understand?

4. ограничения на копирование. 3-D модели (s), приводится для пользователя исключительного использования. Пользователь не имеют права предоставлять на 3-D модели (s) для других в любой форме или по какой-либо средств массовой информации за исключением случаев, указанных в настоящем лицензионном соглашении . 3-D модели (ы) может быть задействован в целом или частично для пользователя исключительного использования.  Вы сука!

or

4. Beschränkung der VERVIELFÄLTIGUNG. Die 3-D-Modell(s) ist für den exklusiven Gebrauch. Benutzer hat nicht das Recht, die 3-D-Modell(e) zu anderen in irgendeiner Form oder auf eine beliebige media except as set forth in this License Agreement. Die 3-D-Modell(n) können kopiert werden, in whole or in part for User’s exclusive use.  Du Blöde kuh!

or

4. RESTRIÇÕES À CÓPIA. Os modelos 3D(s) é fornecido para uso exclusivo do utilizador. Utilizador não têm o direito de fornecer o modelo 3D(s) aos outros, qualquer forma ou em qualquer material excepto conforme estipulado neste Contrato de Licença . Os modelos 3D(s) pode ser copiado no todo ou em parte para uso exclusivo do usuário.  Você cadela!

or

4. تقييد الاستنساخ. 3-نموذج دال على (ص) تزويد المستخدمين إلى ويقتصر استخدامها. المستخدم لا يملك الحق في تقديم نموذج (3-د) على الآخرين بأي شكل أو بأي وسائل الإعلام إلا ما ورد في اتفاق الترخيص . 3-( د) نموذجي يمكن نقله في كليا او جزئيا عن حصرية استعمال المستخدم.  وليس لك!

or

4. Περιορισμοί σχετικά με την αντιγραφή. Το 3-D μοντέλο(s) παρέχεται για χρήστη αποκλειστική χρήση. Ο χρήστης δεν έχει το δικαίωμα να παρέχει το 3-D μοντέλο(s) σε άλλους σε οποιαδήποτε μορφή ή με οποιοδήποτε μέσο εκτός από όσα ορίζονται στην παρούσα Άδεια Χρήσης . Το 3-D μοντέλο(s) μπορεί να αντιγραφεί στο σύνολό τους ή εν μέρει για χρήστη αποκλειστική χρήση.

Would you agree to these terms that are provided in the installer?

English is my mother language… it all looks Greek to me, lol

seems completely legit to me. Especially that remark at the end of the paragraph(s) wink

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Posted: 10 June 2012 10:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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It’s impossible to provide it in all the languages out there. It’s real easy to use a free translator on the web. Google being one of the best. We use it all the time for communication with non English speaking users

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Posted: 10 June 2012 10:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Barubary - 10 June 2012 10:17 AM
Jazzmin - 10 June 2012 09:02 AM
chohole - 10 June 2012 08:26 AM
Ledhead - 10 June 2012 07:21 AM

I understand but in my opinion, if you pay for something you should have the right to use it as you see fit, as long as you are not reselling the product itself, but using the product in an environment like a game, you paid for it, you should be able to use it.


Please read this psrt of the EULA

4. RESTRICTIONS ON COPYING. The 3-D Model(s) is provided for User’s
exclusive use. User does not have the right to provide the 3-D Model(s) to
others in any form or on any media except as set forth in this License
Agreement. The 3-D Model(s) may be copied in whole
or in part for User’s exclusive use. Specifically, you (the User) may copy the
3-D Model(s) onto the storage device of an unlimited number of computers;
provided that all such computers are physically located at your business or,
if you are an individual, your place of residence located at a single specific
street address (or its equivalent). Unauthorized copying of the 3-D Model(s)
is expressly forbidden.

This is an extract from the game license   You first need to purchase this license before you can distibute anything in this manner, and even then, as Arien has already said, it is only a license for products that are “owned” by Daz3D, and does not cover PA items.

You can read the complete EULA here

https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/entries/123940


ANd you can find the License itself in the store here, if you wish to purchase one

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/catalogsearch/result/?q=License

 

Again, the EULA is in English.  In order for it to be valid it needs to be in all languages.  Those English only speakers, take a look at the EULA snipet that Chohole provied, and tell me if you understand?

4. ограничения на копирование. 3-D модели (s), приводится для пользователя исключительного использования. Пользователь не имеют права предоставлять на 3-D модели (s) для других в любой форме или по какой-либо средств массовой информации за исключением случаев, указанных в настоящем лицензионном соглашении . 3-D модели (ы) может быть задействован в целом или частично для пользователя исключительного использования.  Вы сука!

or

4. Beschränkung der VERVIELFÄLTIGUNG. Die 3-D-Modell(s) ist für den exklusiven Gebrauch. Benutzer hat nicht das Recht, die 3-D-Modell(e) zu anderen in irgendeiner Form oder auf eine beliebige media except as set forth in this License Agreement. Die 3-D-Modell(n) können kopiert werden, in whole or in part for User’s exclusive use.  Du Blöde kuh!

or

4. RESTRIÇÕES À CÓPIA. Os modelos 3D(s) é fornecido para uso exclusivo do utilizador. Utilizador não têm o direito de fornecer o modelo 3D(s) aos outros, qualquer forma ou em qualquer material excepto conforme estipulado neste Contrato de Licença . Os modelos 3D(s) pode ser copiado no todo ou em parte para uso exclusivo do usuário.  Você cadela!

or

4. تقييد الاستنساخ. 3-نموذج دال على (ص) تزويد المستخدمين إلى ويقتصر استخدامها. المستخدم لا يملك الحق في تقديم نموذج (3-د) على الآخرين بأي شكل أو بأي وسائل الإعلام إلا ما ورد في اتفاق الترخيص . 3-( د) نموذجي يمكن نقله في كليا او جزئيا عن حصرية استعمال المستخدم.  وليس لك!

or

4. Περιορισμοί σχετικά με την αντιγραφή. Το 3-D μοντέλο(s) παρέχεται για χρήστη αποκλειστική χρήση. Ο χρήστης δεν έχει το δικαίωμα να παρέχει το 3-D μοντέλο(s) σε άλλους σε οποιαδήποτε μορφή ή με οποιοδήποτε μέσο εκτός από όσα ορίζονται στην παρούσα Άδεια Χρήσης . Το 3-D μοντέλο(s) μπορεί να αντιγραφεί στο σύνολό τους ή εν μέρει για χρήστη αποκλειστική χρήση.

Would you agree to these terms that are provided in the installer?

English is my mother language… it all looks Greek to me, lol

seems completely legit to me. Especially that remark at the end of the paragraph(s) wink

LOL… you figured it out… I thought I’d just make sure everyone was paying attention wink

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Posted: 10 June 2012 10:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Frank0314 - 10 June 2012 10:29 AM

It’s impossible to provide it in all the languages out there. It’s real easy to use a free translator on the web. Google being one of the best. We use it all the time for communication with non English speaking users

Well, um… Google provides a very easy to use translator that can be placed on any site with just about any language available and it’s called “Site Translator.”  DAZ should be aware of this feature as a site admin, it’s kindergarten for building sites wink  The fact that it’s not on the site implies that DAZ doesn’t want the EULA understood by all international customers.  The vendor should provide translation because they are selling a product.  It is not up to the customer to translate a EULA because business is NOT just done in the US.

That aside, my point is that money is being exchanged for a product with conditions (the EULA).  Those customers who don’t speak English need to be fairly informed BEFORE they exchange their money for the product and that is my only point.  If the EULA is not in the customer’s primary language, then it’s unfair and therefore, sneaky.

Can you imagine Microsoft making agreements with everyone around the world and their EULA is only in English because Microsoft is a US based company?  Come on, let’s use our brains.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 11:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Split to a new topic.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 11:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Under US law, it is the responsibility of the “End User” to read and agree to abide by the rules, regulations and restrictions set down in writing in the EULA.  When you check the “agree” box when installing the software, you are entering into a contract with the designer that permits you to use the software within the tenants and constraints of the contract. 

If an “End User” does not comprehend the EULA, they should not agree to it.  Of course if you don’t check the little “agree” box, the software won’t install.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 11:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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icprncss - 10 June 2012 11:14 AM

Under US law, it is the responsibility of the “End User” to read and agree to abide by the rules, regulations and restrictions set down in writing in the EULA.  When you check the “agree” box when installing the software, you are entering into a contract with the designer that permits you to use the software within the tenants and constraints of the contract. 

If an “End User” does not comprehend the EULA, they should not agree to it.  Of course if you don’t check the little “agree” box, the software won’t install.

That’s US law, we’re talking about international law.  That’s what treaties are about.  When you do business across the globe, then you enter outside the jurisdiction of US law.  And “entering into a contract” is exactly why both parties should understand what is being agreed upon.  If the end user doesn’t understand what they are agreeing to then they shouldn’t be forced to do it nor should they be held accountable.  That means if DAZ isn’t fair, as in fair lending laws, you know, when you buy a house, they can’t expect that someone understands or agrees.  They did, after all, give DAZ money for the product.  So, they should be informed before they give up the cash.

If you bought a house and the entire contract were in Spanish or whatever, and you didn’t speak/read/understand Spanish, would you sign it?  I hope not.  That’s why there are mortgage laws to protect consumers from unscrupulous lenders.  If the contract is not in a language you comprehend then after it is signed and the consumer wants to back out, he will released from that contract.

Why do you think the DMV puts their written exam in different languages in the the US?  People have to understand what the heck is going on.

All I’m saying is make it freaking fair.  English is not the only language spoken in this world and it’s arrogant to assume so.  If you’re going to business world wide then prepare for it, just like the big kids Sony, Microsoft, HP, etc.

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