Daz Studio HSS, US and US2 Tutorial planned but want feedback first

SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
edited December 1969 in DAZ Studio Discussion

Now that I borrowed a machine that can run DS4.51.56 I can finally get around to a few things.

Firstly HSS (Human Skin Shader), Uber Surface and Uber Surface 2 but before I wade in a sharing with what I think I know I want to ask you (blanket you) if you think I am ready to part with my hard earned knowledge. This is a WIP but I wanted to see if I am worthy of the task I put before me. If you think the image below is good, skin and eyes wise then I will progress and get everything down on virtual paper. But I warn you this is going to take time so please be patient.

I have used Uber Surface on nearly every surface and use SSS on all the skin and eye whites and teeth. Also added fresnel and refraction on the Corneas etc..

I am still learning about all this as I go but in the last 2 days I have learned all sorts about Fresnel (though I am still testing this to really understand how it works in Daz Studio), refraction and the respective IOR (Index of Refraction).

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Comments

  • graham jamesgraham james Posts: 41
    edited December 1969

    I would welcome a tutorial that could help me achieve results similar to your post.
    Only snag is I don't have Uber Surface 2, just what comes with DS4.5
    I will gladly follow along as far as I am able with what I have.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited December 1969

    Yeah hence the title I will cover all three, the two, HSS and Uber Surface, that comes with Daz Studio and the piad for Uber Surface 2. There isn't much between them really.

  • vienastoksvienastoks Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Given that the lack of DS documentation and decent tutorials is the single most maddening thing about it all, it's rather funny that you ask. I, personally, would be most grateful. I tried to play with USS2, but got nowhere despite trying very very hard to decipher the totally inadequate list of features (presented as documentation) on Omnifreaker's site.

    Pretty please!

    BTW, the image looks very good!

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited December 1969

    Thanks

    Yes there is some serious learning involved and I must warn people My Example settings will not do for all or if any other skin textures. You will have to adjust and test render for each skin set but if you start with a base then you can work from there. This is my hope to give you a starting point and a little more understanding what does what.

    It will take me afair amount of time typing out and render images but I hope it will be worth it.

  • hermana5hermana5 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I would love to be able to do what you have done but truly don't have a clue as to how, so i would appreciate a tutorial if you have the time to make one , so thanks in advance.

  • JimmyC_2009JimmyC_2009 Posts: 8,246
    edited December 1969

    I think that would be a great idea Pete!

    Looking forward to it, I know very little about Uber anything :)

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited December 1969

    Yeah no problem Jimmy and herman.

    I will see how the response goes and take it from there. I will cover applying Uber Suraces to other surfaces apart from skin like the shirt and Gun (not shown above).

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    one of the things I have a hard time with in UberSurface and HumanSurface is getting SSS to do anything I can see. I can't seem to get SSS to show up as a factor in my final renders... I used to think I did, but now... not so sure...

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,366
    edited December 1969

    My own experiments have taught me a lot about using UberSurface2 and a whole raft full of info on SSS. Despite all of this, there are still some things I found that were either undocumented or seemingly fruitless. I'm not going to lie, your results above are pretty impressive. Not least of all is the visible veins. Not sure if that's due to SSS, or an impressive diffuse setup, but it really makes it a lot more real.

    Whatever you used to get those results, I'd be a very attentive student if you shared your secret.

  • KeryaKerya Posts: 7,186
    edited December 1969

    *sits down and waits*

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    one of the things I have a hard time with in UberSurface and HumanSurface is getting SSS to do anything I can see. I can't seem to get SSS to show up as a factor in my final renders... I used to think I did, but now... not so sure...
    What Max Ray Trace Depth were you using 2 or more will work better but also lighting plays a big part.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited December 1969

    My own experiments have taught me a lot about using UberSurface2 and a whole raft full of info on SSS. Despite all of this, there are still some things I found that were either undocumented or seemingly fruitless. I'm not going to lie, your results above are pretty impressive. Not least of all is the visible veins. Not sure if that's due to SSS, or an impressive diffuse setup, but it really makes it a lot more real.

    Whatever you used to get those results, I'd be a very attentive student if you shared your secret.

    OK viens are not my doing But Zev) excellent Vascularity product on Rendo..sorry not allowed to provide a link. With this set being M/V4 only I used it on Geneisis with a M4 skin texture set.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited December 1969

    Kerya said:
    *sits down and waits*
    hope you are comfortable...it's going to be along ride.

  • RenpatsuRenpatsu Posts: 792
    edited March 2013

    Personally I am getting the best SSS results with pwSurface2, I never really managed to get specularity to play nicely in combination with SSS in uberSurface2 - it always looks a bit 'weak' compared to pwSurface2 when trying to go for shinier surfaces. Nevertheless I use uberSurface2 especially for the second material layer and there is certainly the workaround of using the second layer as 'specular boost' so to say, but that is more like a workaround as I said.

    So any discussion and tutorials on especially uberSurface2 would be welcome for me, perhaps I am just missing something there. Needless to say that tutorials are always a good thing :D

    Post edited by Renpatsu on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited December 1969

    Yeah I hear you on pwsurface which I do use and can set up for skin but UberSurface (one) is part of Daz Studio hence why I settled for that. We could have a discusion here about pwSurface too but I will mainly concentrate on Uber Surface that comes with Daz Studio with a little bit on US2 and the differences it has.

  • RenpatsuRenpatsu Posts: 792
    edited December 1969

    I think it is good to have this discussion on uberSurface related products solely and those are the products that are primarily used in conjunction with DAZ Studio, as the base shaders come along with it.

    That was always a problem of pwSurface2 - while it is an excellent shader by itself, it never was part of the DAZ Studio base and due to that never got used as much as the uber-related products. uberSurface2 has also the 'problem' of a reduced market share (as it has to be bought) and due to that less information being around (and presets). The tricky part with uberSurface2 is primarily that said shader reacts very differently compared to the original uberSurface, but the transfer preset does a decent job for that.

    In the end, the generic uberSurface is actually quite good already and I think community wise it'd be best to focus on that. I agree with you there.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited December 1969

    Don't get ne wrong I reakon pwSurface is a seriously powerful shader system which has not got the credit it deserves.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited March 2013

    Before I get started properly here is what the skin looks like before and after. Both have the sma elighting all I did was load the skin and leave them at the defualt settings.

    Both straight out of Daz Studio

    base1.jpg
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    BrockC_copy.jpg
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    Post edited by Szark on
  • KharmaKharma Posts: 1,465
    edited December 1969

    I would be thankful for some info on how to use these, I have tried applying them and just don't get it. so many settings to deal with in studio for everything. Some clear concise instruction would be great that starts at the very beginning assuming you know nothing about how to do this :)

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited December 1969

    One thing that is needed by you is a basic understanding of the Daz Default surface settings http://homepage.eircom.net/~neilvpose/ds-settings.htm as I won't be going in to that as it is a fundemental basic. If you don't understand these then the chances are you are not going to understand the tutorial.

    I am not doing a beginners guide but more at the intermediate level

  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,444
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    Before I get started properly here is what the skin looks like before and after.

    They both say 'after.'

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited March 2013

    LOL so they do, all fixed now, thx Gedd.

    Post edited by Szark on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited March 2013

    Szark said:
    Before I get started properly here is what the skin looks like before and after. Both have the sma elighting all I did was load the skin and leave them at the defualt settings.

    Both straight out of Daz Studio

    Maybe use the velvet setting in HSS a little more, something in a not-very-saturated peach? It's good to lose that scary ambient glow effect, but it's also good not to totally lose the edge halo that a bald head (or bare arm, etc.) has in bright light. Admittedly SSS users sometimes overdo that and get a Kewpie doll transparency on hands and feet, but it looks to me like you're not overdoing things.

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • GeddGedd Posts: 2,444
    edited December 1969

    Very nice. I noticed you didn't loose detail in the diffuse map. I had trouble with that earlier when I was playing with UE2 and the Tamesis skin.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited December 1969

    I used the Velvet with a dark blue/grey colour with the BUMP map in the Velvet Strength channel. I don't like the peach colour effect as it doesn't look right even to simulate fine hairs. For me the blue works as that is what happens in the real world in certain lighting conditions. Also I don't use Transluceny or Ambient at all on skin. The SSS should give enough not the have Transluceny one.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited March 2013

    SickleYield I am no way near an expert on this and I do like to see others helping so please feel free to help if you see a better way or to correct me. I would rather be corrected in public than misleading folks.

    That goes for any of you old timers that understand all this. :) I think it is about time we all got this sorted once and for all. So others can enjoy the wonders of Uber Surface. Unless like the monkey you don't want to teach the tiger to climb. :)

    Velvet can be used for a number of things like the shirt which has Velvet and Transluceny enabled. But for iuman skin to retain the details like Gedd's last post I find Transluceny and Velvet, even at low strengths can help lose those details. Now this could be down to my lack of understanding or my lack of a good light rig. Both are highly probable as I still consider myself a beginner 4 years later. :)

    Post edited by Szark on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited December 1969

    I too am always willing to learn something new, and of course these things are very subjective.


    Here the first one is F5 with his default material. It comes with velvet on at around 15% and dark blue. The second one is the same but with velvet a desaturated peach/brown and up at 32%. Now, this is totally in the eye of the beholder, but I still think the peach/orange looks more like the rim effect on actual flesh in bright light.

    VelvetPeach.jpg
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    VelvetBlue.jpg
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  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited December 1969

    I will give it a try tomorrow that peach brown. Though I couldn't see the difference in your images. I use IrFanview which has a forward and back function to filp between images and I can't see any differences at all. I even put my glasses on to make sure.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 5,992
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    I will give it a try tomorrow that peach brown. Though I couldn't see the difference in your images. I use IrFanview which has a forward and back function to filp between images and I can't see any differences at all. I even put my glasses on to make sure.

    Well, it's certainly possible that I'm just seeing something that isn't there - I was totally convinced geometry shells could have variable UVs until it was proved otherwise. Maybe what matters more is that velvet is on rather than exactly what color it is?


    That's it, it's time for some green and purple tests. :-D

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,760
    edited December 1969

    That is what I had in mind doing a series of renders showing what one channel does. I will be removing all mats and using a plain white or mid grey and then use a real strong staturated colour to see the effect.

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