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Daz Studio HSS, US and US2 Tutorial planned but want feedback first
Posted: 10 March 2014 02:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 166 ]
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Yes IDL does work in GI. Yes got Max Ray Trace at 3 and yes I know what it does and how it relates to GI etc etc and yes render times, oh my.

No I am liking UE2 base and IDL better, soft shadows. I never use Directional Shadows.

Uber Surface doesn’t have a Max Ray Trace setting but Uber Surface 2 does.

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Posted: 10 March 2014 01:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 167 ]
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UE2 IDL with Soft Shadows using the Soft Box preset.

3 dzpointlights

I am liking this one more than the first.

This is a low quality render. I will let it render overnight and see how it looks in the morn.

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Posted: 11 March 2014 07:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 168 ]
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here we go full high quality settings. Took about 14 hours to render but I only had Max Ray Trace Depth at 2.

What you think….good, room for improvement, crap? Please let me have it, it is the only way to learn. smile

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Posted: 11 March 2014 08:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 169 ]
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Szark - 11 March 2014 07:49 AM

here we go full high quality settings. Took about 14 hours to render but I only had Max Ray Trace Depth at 2.

What you think….good, room for improvement, crap? Please let me have it, it is the only way to learn. smile

Looks pretty good to me.  Apart form the total pain in creation/posing and the likelihood it’d look too ‘fussy’ a little chain cobweb at one corner of the block might be fun.  The middle section of the 3rd leg from front, right side of the front spider looks like it has caught a shadow, a dark reflection or the surface texture may be a little off.

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Posted: 11 March 2014 10:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 170 ]
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Hello Pete,

what were your parameters for the “low res” picture? That even looks good - without these noisy shadow zones you normally get for low quality renders.
And your robo-spiders are great !

Btw:

3 dzpointlights

I have a problem even adding a second one. Everytime I try, it replaces the first one.
How to?

Andy

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Posted: 11 March 2014 10:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 171 ]
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Thank you.

The low res…hum can’t remember I will have to take a look and get back to you.

To load more than one light is to hold down Ctrl while loading and a new dialogue box will appear, you need to choose “ADD” instead of “Replace”.

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Posted: 11 March 2014 11:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 172 ]
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Szark - 11 March 2014 07:49 AM

What you think….

The spiders are super pretty =) The black box looks as if it were made of rubber to me, is it what you intended?

PS You wrote in an earlier post “...To me this looks like an Aluminum or Alloy type of metal. But I think if I change the environment to something more colourful with more contrast it will start to get a better look. I need to play with Fresnel a bit more but overall I am happy in the direction.”

Have I said that according to physics, metals should not have Fresnel?

 

...and one more message for Cath - another thing apart from reflections that would make sense to me re:your effect, that would be specular colour maps. If you’re using any of these, then I understand how it works =) If not, then it’s a mystery to me =)

 

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Posted: 11 March 2014 11:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 173 ]
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Rubber/foam I didn’t really have a direction, just what looked good. smile

There seems to be two trains of thought on cgSociety, one group says yes for Fresnel and some say no. I understand dielectrics and non dielectric surfaces and like you thought this too. But after reading many pages on the subject I am not so sure now.

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Posted: 11 March 2014 12:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 174 ]
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Mustakettu85 - 07 March 2014 09:45 AM
Szark - 07 March 2014 09:28 AM

Mustakettu85 I will try those lights….there didn’t work for a while so I forgot about them.

Missing shadows, you mean? There was an easy fix actually, but I guess most people overlooked the thread where it was posted. They have been okay for the last handful of builds, though.

can you point me to that thread please Mustakettu85 as soft shadows don’t seem to be working http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/38362/

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Posted: 13 March 2014 08:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 175 ]
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Szark - 11 March 2014 11:47 AM

Rubber/foam I didn’t really have a direction, just what looked good. smile

There seems to be two trains of thought on cgSociety, one group says yes for Fresnel and some say no. I understand dielectrics and non dielectric surfaces and like you thought this too. But after reading many pages on the subject I am not so sure now.

It does look good. Would you share the settings, please?

The question would be, what background does that “pro-Fresnel” group have? If they’re trained artists, that’s one thing. It means that we, in turn, as artists, can disregard their opinion because it is what it is, “whatever looks prettiest”.
Now if those guys are somehow physicists/engineers, then it’s more interesting. I, for one, have never heard about Fresnel laws in context of metals and light. But I did not major in optics. Maybe there is a handful of specific cases or whatever.

As for the lights, my fix was for the time when the shadows did not work at all, and it’s here: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/12191/#182158

The guys in the thread you linked basically told it like it is, though: a point light won’t cast shadows that are much soft, by definition. There’s that intrinsic conceptualisation limit. Now if you imagine a naked lightbulb and a photostudio softbox, which would cast softer shadows? Softness of shadows depends quite a lot on the emitter surface size. Think of a softbox as consisting of an infinite number of infinitely small pointlights spread over a surface; each casts sharp shadows, but as there’s a lot of them and some are far apart, their shadows overlap and hence the edges are blurred… something like that.

Here’s a link that specifically contrasts “traditional” point light sharp shadows with softer ones and gives some interestic ideas about setting up surfaces to better match either: http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=516590&seqNum=6

There are “point” (i.e. omnidirectional) lights in UberSoft Lighting Kit, but given that they are morphable into directional lights, and given that the shadows from all of them are calculated by the Master one, I won’t even try to guess what those “soft” shaders could be under the hood.

Here are two renders of a 3 meter tall cylinder atop a 5 meter side plane. The one on the left is illuminated with a single point light; the one on the right - by four identical ones (intensity 25% each). I’ve moved them apart a little, so if you look hard, the shadow gets marginally softer. More pointlights spread farther apart - more softness kicking in earlier. Hope that helps!

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Posted: 13 March 2014 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 176 ]
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Hey szark, have you tried this combo: UE2 set to occlusion with a shader mixer IDL camera and using the 3Delight point cloud script? To me it seems to be about the fastest IDL plus occlusion setup.

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Posted: 13 March 2014 01:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 177 ]
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LOL that went straight through one ear and out the other evilded.  Got any links to show how to do this? I am presuming it is with the external 3delight render engine (free)?  I know of threads discussing this but I get lost at page 2 in the main one. There are no Step 1 > step 2 > etc.

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Posted: 13 March 2014 01:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 178 ]
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Szark - 13 March 2014 01:19 PM

LOL that went straight through one ear and out the other evilded.  Got any links to show how to do this? I am presuming it is with the external 3delight render engine (free)?  I know of threads discussing this but I get lost at page 2 in the main one. There are no Step 1 > step 2 > etc.

In the render settings, the selection box for Render Engine, there is a selection for Scripted 3Delight.  If you choose that, there is another group of options listed below…the scripts you can use.  One of them is the Pointcloud render.

Just for the first time…take a scene and flip that on and render…don’t change anything, just render…then come back and we’ll move you on to the next steps.

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Posted: 13 March 2014 02:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 179 ]
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Mustakettu85 - 13 March 2014 08:12 AM

The question would be, what background does that “pro-Fresnel” group have? If they’re trained artists, that’s one thing. It means that we, in turn, as artists, can disregard their opinion because it is what it is, “whatever looks prettiest”.
Now if those guys are somehow physicists/engineers, then it’s more interesting. I, for one, have never heard about Fresnel laws in context of metals and light. But I did not major in optics. Maybe there is a handful of specific cases or whatever.

For what I know you have Fresnel everywhere and as you have reflections in metals you have a Fresnel term http://sirkan.iit.bme.hu/~szirmay/fresnel.pdf

The question is then : do you work with Physically Plausible BRDF Shaders or not ?

We don’t have shaders in DS in which you calculate the Fresnel and other terms from the IOR of the material you want to imitate. So then the question is How do you do with non plausible shaders and a Fresnel term that is not IOR dependant?

 

 

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Posted: 13 March 2014 02:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 180 ]
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Mjc got that. I remember seeing it but never done it. Will this render be inside DS? I will give this a whirl tomorrow evening. It is getting late here and I am heading to bed soon.

Takeo this is what I got from reading many things about cg in general and from what I could make out it does depend on the shader and software been used. Thanks for the link I will give that a read tomorrow too.

Thanks to everyone that is helping me with this I am having so much fun and learning loads

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