64bit

sambucussambucus Posts: 25
edited December 1969 in Bryce Discussion

Is Bryce 7 pro only 32bit on win 7?

«13

Comments

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,893
    edited December 1969

    Hi Alan, nice to see you over here again. Yes Bryce is only 32 bit at the moment.

    However you can make it Large Address Aware and use a bit more of the available memory.

    http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112556

  • sambucussambucus Posts: 25
    edited December 1969

    Hi Pam. Ive just ordered a new pc with win7 hp and 12 gb of ram to get back into this. Am i wasting my money?

  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 2,852
    edited March 2013

    sambucus said:
    Hi Pam. Ive just ordered a new pc with win7 hp and 12 gb of ram to get back into this. Am i wasting my money?

    Depends what you intend to do with your computer besides Bryce.

    Bryce 7.1 Pro can use up to 8 cores / real and virtual.

    There is not special advantage in having a fancy graphics card, although having two minors is very helpful for other reasons.

    Making Bryce large address aware will let it address up to 3 gb of memory. But you will need some for your OS and you might want plenty of memory for other reasons.

    This is my system specifications - I use Bryce quite a bit and have no real issues with this setup.

    Windows 7 Pro
    64 bit OS
    Intel i7 CPU
    6 Gb memory
    HD 5850 GPU

    Edit. Rendering, which is ultimately what Bryce does is dependent entirely on CPU grunt and specifically floating point number crunching capability. Which is why I chose an i7 920 processor - in terms of games performance this was not as good as an equivalently priced AMD but... i7 does crunch numbers slightly better in the benchmarking, the i7 has four real cores and four virtual cores via hyper-threading technology. The HT cores do not perform as well as a real core, it's just a thread processing trick used to shuffle the instruction processing around for better efficiency on chip. Whatever you do though, if you intend to be mostly rendering, is make sure your system is well cooled. Rendering works the system harder than high end video games - for example - since they farm off some of their load to the GPU. Expected load from a game would be 80% for rendering at high priority 100%. It makes a difference.

    Post edited by David Brinnen on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,893
    edited March 2013

    My new system is like this


    Processor (CPU) AMD A8-3870K APU (3.0GHz, 4 Cores)
    Motherboard ASUS® F1A75-M: FM1 A-SERIES, SATA 6.0GB/s, USB 3.0
    Memory (RAM) 8GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 4GB)
    Graphics Card 1GB AMD RADEON™ HD6450 - DVI,HDMI,VGA - DX® 11

    Memory - 1st Hard Disk 500GB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 16MB CACHE
    2nd Hard Disk 1TB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 32MB CACHE

    Power Supply 450W Quiet 80 PLUS Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan
    Processor Cooling SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE AMD CPU COOLER (£19)

    Operating System Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence

    David knows how long it took me to make the plunge, but with this set up I am now making renders like this.

    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_242/file_2418112.jpg

    Which people both over there and over here seem to think is an improvement.

    Edited to add How are you doing Alan, seems it's ages since we last spoke.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • sambucussambucus Posts: 25
    edited December 1969

    Guess I can find a use for it. Got 64bit DS4A and an older Vue. And there's always the latest games. Just surprised that they didn't see fit to make a 64bit version of something that can use more ram.
    Love the pic. That's the sort of thing you would have needed Vue for not long ago.

    These are the specs for the new cooker.
    Processor Type Intel Core i7
    Processor Speed 3.4 GHz
    RAM Size 12 GB
    Computer Memory Type DDR3 SDRAM
    Hard Drive Size 2000 GB
    Graphics Card Description Nvidia GeForce GT650
    Graphics RAM Type VRAM
    Graphics Card Ram Size 2 GB

  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 2,852
    edited December 1969

    sambucus said:
    Just surprised that they didn't see fit to make a 64bit version of something that can use more ram.

    I gather it is something that is far easier said than done. As I understand it (bearing in mind that I'm not a programmer or developer) the first round of bug fixing and testing for the Bryce 7 development cycle involved a huge rewrite of the base code to make this a future capability, but the shift to 64 bit wasn't part of the overall 7 cycle, that initial round was just laying the foundations. The feature set that was part of 7.0 and 7.1 was then developed. Perhaps it was not considered wise, or even possible, to build this new feature set on ancient code? I strongly suspect this layer was put in to enable future capitalisation on instancing or import features from DS - but that's just guesswork on my part.

  • sambucussambucus Posts: 25
    edited December 1969

    oh well, i`ll just have to wait for a future update but they will have to hurry. i`m knocking on a bit. Nice talking to you again.

  • bighbigh Posts: 5,531
    edited December 1969

    sambucus said:
    Just surprised that they didn't see fit to make a 64bit version of something that can use more ram.

    I gather it is something that is far easier said than done. As I understand it (bearing in mind that I'm not a programmer or developer) the first round of bug fixing and testing for the Bryce 7 development cycle involved a huge rewrite of the base code to make this a future capability, but the shift to 64 bit wasn't part of the overall 7 cycle, that initial round was just laying the foundations. The feature set that was part of 7.0 and 7.1 was then developed. Perhaps it was not considered wise, or even possible, to build this new feature set on ancient code? I strongly suspect this layer was put in to enable future capitalisation on instancing or import features from DS - but that's just guesswork on my part.

    let see - was that 3 years ago or some thing like that
    so 64 bit - I don't think it will be any time soon !

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,893
    edited December 1969

    bigh you should remember that unsupported speculation is not encouraged in the DAZ 3 D forums, and especially not in the Bryce forum, because we are mostly all unashamed optimists when it comes to the future of Bryce.

  • HoroHoro Posts: 4,347
    edited December 1969

    bigh said:
    let see - was that 3 years ago or some thing like that
    so 64 bit - I don't think it will be any time soon !

    It's less then 2 years and 7 months. There is still a lot to discover. The last dev cycle brought us more we've ever got.

  • bighbigh Posts: 5,531
    edited December 1969

    Horo said:
    bigh said:
    let see - was that 3 years ago or some thing like that
    so 64 bit - I don't think it will be any time soon !

    It's less then 2 years and 7 months. There is still a lot to discover. The last dev cycle brought us more we've ever got.

    but they took away the best thing ( animation of V4, M4, etc ) :-)

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,893
    edited December 1969

    :question: :question:

  • bighbigh Posts: 5,531
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    :question: :question:

    o you want to know what I want ?
    lets see they added DUF to Carrara 8.5 - that would be nice for Bryce 7.5
    Carrara has fast render - that would be nice for Bryce 7.5
    and then Carrara is 64 bit - that would be nice for Bryce 7.5
    that's all I want .
    nothing else .

    I am so happy to see Daz is going forward with Carrara 8.5 and 9 .
    just wish they would do the same for Bryce .

    How about you all ?

  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 2,852
    edited December 1969

    Well, before I can answer that question you'd have to say what DUF is?

  • JimmyC_2009JimmyC_2009 Posts: 8,356
    edited December 1969

    DUF is the new 'User Facing' file format that is used in DAZ Studio instead of the old .DAZ format.

    It is also the the format for the Base Genesis figure among other things. Scenes save and open a lot faster

  • DarkRiderDLMCDarkRiderDLMC Posts: 518
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    bigh you should remember that unsupported speculation is not encouraged in the DAZ 3 D forums, and especially not in the Bryce forum, because we are mostly all unashamed optimists when it comes to the future of Bryce.

    Yes, we are - and sometimes putting a smiley at the end this kind of response takes the bite off of it.

    Please note, I actually held my tongue. :)

  • DarkRiderDLMCDarkRiderDLMC Posts: 518
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    My new system is like this


    Processor (CPU) AMD A8-3870K APU (3.0GHz, 4 Cores)
    Motherboard ASUS® F1A75-M: FM1 A-SERIES, SATA 6.0GB/s, USB 3.0
    Memory (RAM) 8GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 4GB)
    Graphics Card 1GB AMD RADEON™ HD6450 - DVI,HDMI,VGA - DX® 11

    Memory - 1st Hard Disk 500GB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 16MB CACHE
    2nd Hard Disk 1TB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 32MB CACHE

    Power Supply 450W Quiet 80 PLUS Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan
    Processor Cooling SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE AMD CPU COOLER (£19)

    Operating System Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence

    David knows how long it took me to make the plunge, but with this set up I am now making renders like this.

    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_242/file_2418112.jpg

    Which people both over there and over here seem to think is an improvement.

    Edited to add How are you doing Alan, seems it's ages since we last spoke.

    That IS quite a render. would have eaten my dual core alive...

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,893
    edited March 2013

    chohole said:
    bigh you should remember that unsupported speculation is not encouraged in the DAZ 3 D forums, and especially not in the Bryce forum, because we are mostly all unashamed optimists when it comes to the future of Bryce.

    Yes, we are - and sometimes putting a smiley at the end this kind of response takes the bite off of it.

    Please note, I actually held my tongue. :)

    That is very unusual for me to forget to add a smiley. I have a reputation for sometimes wasting time making smiley art on Skype chat. Mind you Skype emoticons are more fun, as most of them are animated :coolsmirk:

    Edited to add, and thanks for the comment on the render.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 2,852
    edited December 1969

    DUF is the new 'User Facing' file format that is used in DAZ Studio instead of the old .DAZ format.

    It is also the the format for the Base Genesis figure among other things. Scenes save and open a lot faster

    Thank you.

    OK since Bigh put this question I see no harm in answering and it does relate after a fashion to the OP.

    1 Yes I'd like to see 64bit.
    2 Bugfixes for the Mac OS too and any Windows 8 issues addressed.
    3 Then the Bridge fixed to efficiently move content between DS and Bryce - in both directions (which would mean either making DS procedural texture compliant or the other option, fixing the texture exporter).
    4 The next must have is Sub Surface Scattering.
    5 And to answer concerns over render speed, if that's a really big issue, something that allows the export of entire scenes to a third part GPU renderer - say Octane - for example - which would not be so arduous if the texture exporter has already been fixed in the Bridge for DS.

    As things stand, at the rate Horo and I are going, I think there is still another two to three years work for us picking apart the 7.1 Pro feature set and documenting that. Maybe after that... we'll start fretting for new features.

  • sambucussambucus Posts: 25
    edited March 2013

    Idiot time again. Is the Large Address Aware part of windows, is so, where or is it a download?

    Post edited by sambucus on
  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 2,852
    edited December 1969

    sambucus said:
    Idiot time again. Is the Large Address Aware part of windows, is so, where or is it a download?

    No sensible question... I'll make video and post the link - that is probably the easiest way.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,893
    edited December 1969

    Well there is one download here

    http://www.2shared.com/file/IZ97tjIu/Large_Address_Aware.html

    Not sure if anyone else has a better link to a download site for it.

  • HoroHoro Posts: 4,347
    edited December 1969

    That's the official site, if I'm not mistaken: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112556

    Scroll down a bit and get laa_2_0_4.zip. I recommend to get the Process Monitor as well (a bit above). The Windows Task Manager shows processor and memory usage for all tasks running on the machine, Process Monitor permits to select a single application.

    There is a large address flag in Windows, LAA just makes use of it. You can set it for any application and also reset it at any time. So it's nothing permanent. The flag is set from the moment you set it until you reset it a few years later ;)

  • Consumer573Consumer573 Posts: 181
    edited March 2013

    chohole said:
    My new system is like this


    Processor (CPU) AMD A8-3870K APU (3.0GHz, 4 Cores)
    Motherboard ASUS® F1A75-M: FM1 A-SERIES, SATA 6.0GB/s, USB 3.0
    Memory (RAM) 8GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 4GB)
    Graphics Card 1GB AMD RADEON™ HD6450 - DVI,HDMI,VGA - DX® 11

    Memory - 1st Hard Disk 500GB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 16MB CACHE
    2nd Hard Disk 1TB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 32MB CACHE

    Power Supply 450W Quiet 80 PLUS Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan
    Processor Cooling SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE AMD CPU COOLER (£19)

    Operating System Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence

    David knows how long it took me to make the plunge, but with this set up I am now making renders like this.

    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_242/file_2418112.jpg

    Which people both over there and over here seem to think is an improvement.

    I like AMD, but you're the first person to choose one and use it this time around. Why did you choose AMD? And, if I may be so bold, even though I am west of the Atlantic, how much did it cost, approximately? It looks like a nice machine I would be comfortable with.

    I have a thread running about building a new 64 bit machine for Rendering where I am trying to gather people's opinions. I'm finding some interesting things, one being a lack of AMD enthusisam, which was not so in the past (unless it's just the particular respondents).

    Post edited by Consumer573 on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,893
    edited December 1969

    My system was built for me. Cost me £544. THere's other bits and bobs included of course, like a DVD writer, Sound card etc. My older machine was also built by this same company, and is still going strong 6 years later, despite the way I have pushed it, so it is a good company to deal with.

    I have been using AMD for a long time, back about 5 maybe 6 computers. Originally went AMD because of price. Have never had one let me down, and I do wrok my PCs hard.

  • bighbigh Posts: 5,531
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    My new system is like this


    Processor (CPU) AMD A8-3870K APU (3.0GHz, 4 Cores)
    Motherboard ASUS® F1A75-M: FM1 A-SERIES, SATA 6.0GB/s, USB 3.0
    Memory (RAM) 8GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 4GB)
    Graphics Card 1GB AMD RADEON™ HD6450 - DVI,HDMI,VGA - DX® 11

    Memory - 1st Hard Disk 500GB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 16MB CACHE
    2nd Hard Disk 1TB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 32MB CACHE

    Power Supply 450W Quiet 80 PLUS Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan
    Processor Cooling SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE AMD CPU COOLER (£19)

    Operating System Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence

    David knows how long it took me to make the plunge, but with this set up I am now making renders like this.

    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_242/file_2418112.jpg

    Which people both over there and over here seem to think is an improvement.

    I like AMD, but you're the first person to choose one and use it this time around. Why did you choose AMD? And, if I may be so bold, even though I am west of the Atlantic, how much did it cost, approximately? It looks like a nice machine I would be comfortable with.

    I have a thread running about building a new 64 bit machine for Rendering where I am trying to gather people's opinions. I'm finding some interesting things, one being a lack of AMD enthusisam, which was not so in the past (unless it's just the particular respondents).

    I am using AMD too - love it - 8 cores .

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    My new system is like this


    Processor (CPU) AMD A8-3870K APU (3.0GHz, 4 Cores)
    Motherboard ASUS® F1A75-M: FM1 A-SERIES, SATA 6.0GB/s, USB 3.0
    Memory (RAM) 8GB SAMSUNG DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz (2 X 4GB)
    Graphics Card 1GB AMD RADEON™ HD6450 - DVI,HDMI,VGA - DX® 11

    Memory - 1st Hard Disk 500GB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 16MB CACHE
    2nd Hard Disk 1TB 3.5" SATA-III 6GB/s HDD 7200RPM 32MB CACHE

    Power Supply 450W Quiet 80 PLUS Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan
    Processor Cooling SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE AMD CPU COOLER (£19)

    Operating System Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit w/SP1 - inc DVD & Licence

    David knows how long it took me to make the plunge, but with this set up I am now making renders like this.

    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_242/file_2418112.jpg

    Which people both over there and over here seem to think is an improvement.

    I like AMD, but you're the first person to choose one and use it this time around. Why did you choose AMD? And, if I may be so bold, even though I am west of the Atlantic, how much did it cost, approximately? It looks like a nice machine I would be comfortable with.

    I have a thread running about building a new 64 bit machine for Rendering where I am trying to gather people's opinions. I'm finding some interesting things, one being a lack of AMD enthusisam, which was not so in the past (unless it's just the particular respondents).

    The lack of enthusiasm for AMD is usually found with users who are obsessed with speed. There are plenty of AMD enthusiasts whose focus is more on cost. That's how I am, I'm poor, so I don't have the luxury of shelling out hundreds of extra dollars to have a computer that can do things a few seconds or even minutes faster. Fortunately for people in general the cost of computers and computer parts has been very reasonable for the past several years allowing more people to afford the system that's faster over the one that is cheaper and so you see more people moving away from AMD right now. If computer parts pricing gets back to where it used to be though I think you'll find a ressurgence of love for AMD.

  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 2,852
    edited December 1969

    I have had both AMD and intel processors, the choice's I have made are simply down to one basic calculation, maximising the number of processing cycles/£ spent. So not so much the total cost of the item, but that per pound spent, it crunches the most numbers. As it happens this calculation usually seems to result in a total CPU cost of £200 and in most cases the entry level to another technology step from the top of another. So there were many more powerful i7's around when I got my 920. But for each better one, the cycles/£ went down not up. Law of diminishing returns anyone?

    Oh by the way, if I suddenly vanish off the radar for a few days, blame my C drive, they are seriously on the fritz now and I'm frantically backing data up as I type.

  • Peter FulfordPeter Fulford Posts: 277
    edited December 1969

    It's certainly true that for the floating-point type of computing cycles that Bryce uses (along with 3DS Max, Maya, Blender, etc), Intel is currently producing the fastest CPUs. But in the general computing market, and now the lucrative gaming market, AMD is increasingly competitive on performance as well as price.

    Intel's soon to be released mainstream desktop and laptop CPU architecture, "Haswell", is still limited to 4 physical cores just at a time when PC gaming is becoming serious about multi-core use. AMD is sitting pretty with established 6 and 8 core processor designs that utilise the type of computing cycles that game developers are happy with. These AMD processors are fantastically dirt cheap compared to Intel's current and projected 6+ core CPUs. Gamers will notice, and AMD will eat Intel's lunch in yet another area.

    The "obsession with speed" notion isn't as clear cut as imagined.


    For me as a Brycer currently window shopping for new hardware, Intel is still where it's at. But things are a bit weird right now, and in an uncooperative way. The "high-end" performance "bargain" chip for the last 15 months or so has been the 6-core 3930K. It was essentially on a par with (i.e. the same chip as) the more-than-twice-the-price 3960X / 3970X. But in recent weeks its price has rocketed (£430 - £485 on Amazon) and its overclocking potential has mysteriously declined. Very odd, and sufficiently off-putting. Intel is now constantly redrawing its "roadmap", and rumours are rife that it will ditch its planned Ivybridge-E architecture altogether and leapfrog into the Haswell-E line.

    The uncertainty has led me to investigate pre-used 2 to 3 year old Xeon technology. It is possible to buy professional grade dual 4-core workstation kit (i.e. 8 physical cores + 8 virtual) for a similar price as 3930K level setups. You sacrifice the latest tech (SATA III, USB 3.0, etc) but get loads of good old fashioned Bryce-friendly floating point number crunching.

    Fortunately, I'm only at the window shopping stage and can easily wait. When I bought my current components back in 2007/8, I decided I wouldn't upgrade until the tech achieved truly double the (Bryce) performance at an equivalent price. It's there now, but the horizon is sufficiently enticing to wait a bit longer. Especially seeing as I can't escape work until mid-May at the earliest (bloody hell).

    Speaking of work, our ancient and decrepit office Pentium-3 / Win-XP computers are to be replaced imminently. That's (one of) my job(s) and, given that floating-point calcs aren't a priority, AMD based kit is right up there sharing the top of the list. No fanboyism here (despite previous accusations), just pragmatism.

    The really scary thing is how expensive full Windows7 OS packages have become. If you wish to avoid Windows8 on a self-build, it will now cost you dearly...

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