Rendering- Zero Percent-

NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
edited December 1969 in New Users

When you start rendering, after 10 hours, would it still be on zero? (Render in 3Delight, was on top quality (don't know what to call that, it was on 4/4) and the scene is graphic intensive with a cyclorama background, a floor plane by DM, three characters, and some woodsy pieces such as a few logs and plants.) The popup that says Optimizing Images is still at 0% but the elasped time is still going. Shouldn't it be a one percent or something after 10 hours?

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Comments

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
    edited March 2013

    Other info- bucket 32, max ray trace depth 4, pixel samples for x and y both 4, shadow (think my writing says samples) 8
    802 x 585 pixels

    Headed out to barn, be back in a couple hours. Thanks for any help :)
    Cathie

    Post edited by Novica on
  • TotteTotte Posts: 7,065
    edited December 1969

    How much it renders depends on several things. First question, what was the ShadingRate set to?
    Other things that cause slow renders are image size, Trace Depth (seldom need over 2), and if you have an UberEnviroment set to for example Global Illumination.

    But you said trees and grass, those are usually using lots of transparency maps, and one thing the 3Delight engine doesn't do fast is transmaps. They are often used on grasses to save polygons (save memory on 32 bit systems ), but newer systems has so much memory and are 64 bit that pure polygon grass is much more speed efficient that it compensates for the RAM crunching.

    My advice, cancel the render and post a screenshot of your Render settings (advanced settings)

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,949
    edited December 1969

    What did the status bar say? I suspect it was stuck on optimising images, which happens sometimes.

  • TotteTotte Posts: 7,065
    edited December 1969

    What did the status bar say? I suspect it was stuck on optimising images, which happens sometimes.

    Good point Richard, forgot about tldmake hangs, haven't had that for a long time (so I will now have it the next render according to Mr Murphy)

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,863
    edited December 1969

    Totte said:
    What did the status bar say? I suspect it was stuck on optimising images, which happens sometimes.

    Good point Richard, forgot about tldmake hangs, haven't had that for a long time (so I will now have it the next render according to Mr Murphy)

    I haven't had the tdlmake hang problem in a while...but I've had the other tdlmake problem...the one where it never stops...it just keeps redoing the same images until it fills the temp folder/hard drive space. The only cure...shut down DS and restart it. That's the usual fix for the tdlmake hang, too.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
    edited December 1969

    I cancelled it, still optimizing images. Have to run out the door, but before I do another render, I'll post the settings for you :) Appreciate the help as always.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
    edited December 1969

    Settings: Quality vs speed 4 (best)

    Under Advanced:
    Shader: Default
    Preset: Active Viewport
    Pixels: 802 x 585
    Constrain Proportions is checked
    Render To: Still Image
    New Window is radio buttoned (instead of window file)
    doing a png
    render engine: 3Delight
    Progressive rendering (not selected)
    Bucket Order: Horizontal
    Bucket Size 32 (that was in a tutorial by maclean, I think it was)

    max ray trace depth, pixel samples x and y were all 4.0, shadow samples 8.0 (again, by maclean's page)
    Gain, Gamma, Shading Rate all 1.0
    Shadow Samples 8
    Gain, Gamma, Shading Rate all 1
    Pixel Filter Sinc (that was the default, have no clue what this is) and it's X and Y are both 6.00
    Motion Blur is not selected
    Render to RIB is not selected
    Keep Shadows I dont think is selected, there is a checkmark but very grayed out and is not clickable

    Need any other info?

  • TotteTotte Posts: 7,065
    edited December 1969

    Novica said:
    I cancelled it, still optimizing images. Have to run out the door, but before I do another render, I'll post the settings for you :) Appreciate the help as always.

    You got it right there, sorry.

    Save scene, restart DAZ Studio, open scene, the just "micromove" something then try to render again. That's a bug that is very weird that happens randomly (some items worse than others though).

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
    edited December 1969

    Hi Totte, appreciate you as always :)
    "and if you have an UberEnviroment set to for example Global Illumination."

    Can you (or anyone) explain that? Where would I check it, and what does it mean?
    Cathie

  • TotteTotte Posts: 7,065
    edited December 1969

    Novica said:
    Hi Totte, appreciate you as always :)
    "and if you have an UberEnviroment set to for example Global Illumination."

    Can you (or anyone) explain that? Where would I check it, and what does it mean?
    Cathie

    Sorry, I can:
    If you have an UberEnvironment 2 light, select it and look under the parameter tab, you can set render options.

    The lower on the list, the slower is a rule of thumb

    uber.jpg
    432 x 629 - 49K
  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    Bounce GI is slower than an overweight sloth with a backpack full of lead bricks.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Bounce GI is slower than an overweight sloth with a backpack full of lead bricks.
    Really? I find it slower than that. More like drilling a hole in a slab of rock with water, one drip at a time.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
    edited March 2013

    Okaaaay....where is it? I know how to get to parameters once something is selected, where do I find that lovely UE2 light?

    Post edited by Novica on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,863
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Bounce GI is slower than an overweight sloth with a backpack full of lead bricks.
    Really? I find it slower than that. More like drilling a hole in a slab of rock with water, one drip at a time.

    LOL...

    One of the possible causes of the tdlmake bug...the one where it seems to take forever to do a single image, is that the image is in a format that tdlmake doesn't like...indexed/color profiled/etc type images seem to cause it more often than 'plain vanilla' images. Some times, just resaving the image file is enough to stop it from happening. Other times, it will just happen without anything being wrong with the image file.

    The way to tell them apart...

    If it always does it with a particular image file, then it's likely to be in a format that tdlmake doesn't like. If it only does it occasionally...then it's likely to just mean that tdlmake is being temperamental.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
    edited March 2013

    Unfortunately, it rendered. All I can say is OH YUCK.
    The cyclorama, which was barely showing in the background (think dark forest) is showing quite a bit. The waterfall, which I had used a blue spotlight to get just the right effect, is a brighter blue. The lights look like they are not being used at all, all characters are in the dark. (The distant light, the spot lights on certain plants, nada.) And her hands look cartoonish orange. The spotlight on a bug is ultra bright. So why did two spotlights go brighter, the rest not show up at all, and the distant light go poof? Same settings as I gave you.

    render1YUCK.jpg
    1364 x 1900 - 934K
    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
    edited December 1969

    The forums images are darkening- sorry you can't see the first two sets. But you can see the dragonfly/waterfall one.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Novica said:
    The forums images are darkening- sorry you can't see the first two sets. But you can see the dragonfly/waterfall one.
    This is going to be a problem for all people that View your images. Your Monitor is NOT calibrated to the DEFAULT settings. The Image UPLOAD'ed is set to what ALL users will see because the image is shown without any of your Brightness setting's or other adjustments. You need to do a FULL Monitor Calibration and then your Images will look the same on your Monitor and the Forums. If you do not do your renders on a Fully calibrated monitor others will never see on their screens the same image that you do.

    Your personal Settings (monitor) are not saved in the Renders.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,863
    edited December 1969

    Are you using a skydome/enclosed environment?

    If so, under the Parameters for it, are Cast Shadows on or off...

    If they are on, then the distant light is 'outside' the 'box' and the shadow of the 'box' is blocking the light. The spotlights would be 'inside' so their light would be unaffected...also, in essence, making them 'brighter', as they are now the only light sources, so relatively, they are the brightest things present.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
    edited December 1969

    I used a floor (plane) from one of DM's sets, and cyclorama which curves around in the background, then just used a distant light and some spotlights. I haven't done anything fancy, was trying to keep it simple- I'll check and see if some of my lights are below the floor plane- would that cause the same thing?

  • Agent_UnawaresAgent_Unawares Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Novica said:
    The forums images are darkening- sorry you can't see the first two sets. But you can see the dragonfly/waterfall one.
    This is going to be a problem for all people that View your images. Your Monitor is NOT calibrated to the DEFAULT settings. The Image UPLOAD'ed is set to what ALL users will see because the image is shown without any of your Brightness setting's or other adjustments. You need to do a FULL Monitor Calibration and then your Images will look the same on your Monitor and the Forums. If you do not do your renders on a Fully calibrated monitor others will never see on their screens the same image that you do.

    Your personal Settings (monitor) are not saved in the Renders.

    If the forum's images appear to have darkened to Novica as well, and the original issue was darkness where there should be light, I suspect it isn't a monitor problem.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, I wondered why it would be monitor if it changed drastically for me as well. But I calibrated my monitor anyway (and only a slight change in gamma was needed.) Sometimes Corel Draw will darken things though. :)

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,863
    edited December 1969

    If it's not completely enclosed, no it shouldn't shadow that way.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Novica said:
    The forums images are darkening- sorry you can't see the first two sets. But you can see the dragonfly/waterfall one.
    This is going to be a problem for all people that View your images. Your Monitor is NOT calibrated to the DEFAULT settings. The Image UPLOAD'ed is set to what ALL users will see because the image is shown without any of your Brightness setting's or other adjustments. You need to do a FULL Monitor Calibration and then your Images will look the same on your Monitor and the Forums. If you do not do your renders on a Fully calibrated monitor others will never see on their screens the same image that you do.

    Your personal Settings (monitor) are not saved in the Renders.

    If the forum's images appear to have darkened to Novica as well, and the original issue was darkness where there should be light, I suspect it isn't a monitor problem.
    I was just pointing out that if the RENDERS posted looked GOOD on their monitor but the Uploaded render looked different that it was a Calibration issue. I have fallen into that trap myself when I started 3D and had not used a calibrated monitor.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
    edited December 1969

    thanks- but only a slight gamma adjustment was needed, and really not even needed. I just fine tuned it slightly. I'm getting WAAAY different results when rendering than what is in the viewport, so I'm messing up somewhere. Would love to blame my monitor though, lol. I am currently reading Adam's thread in the old forums on the advanced render settings.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited March 2013

    Novica said:
    thanks- but only a slight gamma adjustment was needed, and really not even needed. I just fine tuned it slightly. I'm getting WAAAY different results when rendering than what is in the viewport, so I'm messing up somewhere. Would love to blame my monitor though, lol. I am currently reading Adam's thread in the old forums on the advanced render settings.
    LOL!! The Viewport will NEVER match the FULL render. That is why I do test renders and Spot renders. A Open GL vid card just can not match the 3DeLight render engine. Only test renders will show what the Final Image will look like. Check AdamR's thread for Easy to use Render settings, they range from Proof Renders to Crazy High settings. I use them just for that reason. The DS4.5 Version is great.

    EDIT: Here is the link. http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/16085/

    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
    edited December 1969

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/3028/

    is the one I just finished perusing. Will check out the one you just mentioned now :) Thank you

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Yes that explains them, but the other one has them pre-made and ready to use. Just click and Render.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
    edited December 1969

    One thing I am not finding is gamma- (adjusting brightness) setting- does a lower setting mean darker? And gain (contrast)- would a higher setting increase contrast but also make it a bit darker? I found 1.0 as default, but other than that, no real explanation other than what they were (brightness and contrast.)

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Novica said:
    One thing I am not finding is gamma- (adjusting brightness) setting- does a lower setting mean darker? And gain (contrast)- would a higher setting increase contrast but also make it a bit darker? I found 1.0 as default, but other than that, no real explanation other than what they were (brightness and contrast.)
    Not following, the Gamma comment from before was about your Monitor settings. But yes lower is darker and higher is lighter. Gain is Sharpness on a monitor and that is controlled with Pixel X Y settings for a render. I still think you should Google a Calibration site and set your Monitor to Default so that when you render what you see will be what others see when you save a render. As I said before, if your monitor is not calibrated and your render looks good to you if the Brightness on your monitor is higher than default that extra brightness is not saved in the PNG JPG or other picture file type. If your not seeing a Default setting Render then you will not know what others see when they view your renders with a calibrated monitor.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 9,615
    edited March 2013

    No, sorry to confuse you- I'm not referring to my monitor. The render settings where it says "gain" and "gamma" is what I am referring to.
    The 3Delight render loses all the gorgeous spotlight colors- so I'll just play around with the settings and see what I can do.

    Post edited by Novica on
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