Is Carrara allowed in the Freebie Challenge

EnerlaEnerla Posts: 0
edited March 2013 in Freebies

Is Carrara 8.5 beta allowed as software?

Post edited by Chohole on
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Comments

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited March 2013

    Enerla said:
    Is Carrara 8.5 beta allowed as software?
    I don't think so but here is the link to to the full rules.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/286/
    And I think it is up to those running the contest if it would be allowed or not.

    Post edited by Jaderail on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,339
    edited December 1969

    Carrara is not free software, and the beta is now only available to people who have bought the paid for version of C 8, so it is not counted as a free program.

  • EnerlaEnerla Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Poser isn't free either and comes from competition, this is why I ask. :) Of course Carrara content as paid, but the question is mostly about the program itself :)

  • BWSmanBWSman Posts: 0
    edited March 2013

    chohole said:
    Carrara is not free software, and the beta is now only available to people who have bought the paid for version of C 8, so it is not counted as a free program.

    And before someone says that Poser isn't free; we allow Poser because at the time the rules were set up, Poser was the more popular program and we would be excluding a large portion of forumites. If Carrara becomes more popular than either DAZ Studio or Poser; we MAY consider adding it to the list.

    Edit: Too late. :-P

    Post edited by BWSman on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,339
    edited December 1969

    Ah dear. Poser has been free in the past, and was at one time the only program you could use to do this sort of thing as an amateur of limited means. It has been left as an acceptable program because otherwise we would be barring 50% of DAZ 3D members from entering. It is a politic rule to still allow the program that most of us actually started with and at least 50% of us still use.

    AFAIK there has not been a free version of Carrara, unless it was a very limited trial version with an end date on it. Certainly a beta version cannot be counted as a free version, because the idea of a beta, whether it is a private or a public beta is for users to bug test it and report the bugs, not to just use it as a non paid for program.

  • EnerlaEnerla Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Chohole: Why so offensive?

    I see. I have bought Poser first, in a pro version. It was around $250-300. Then someone said I should try DAZ Studio. I left Poser Pro behind quickly, because Genesis is so versatile, and I like it more. You know how much I paid for DAZ Studio Pro when it was still commercial? But recently it was my decision to move to Carrara. Why? Because it is compatible with my DAZ content, has Dynamic hair, it was somewhat affordable at that time, yes in around $250-300 range. And because I hate hunting for props when I would need a simple shelf, etc. something even I can do with my near 0 skills. It saves time.

    Noone said it is free. I want to use 8.5 beta, because I have that installed. Why? Because I want to use Genesis content. The contests are interesting because we can learn from it. But if I want to get used to Carrara (still pretty new to me), and feedback and criticism is important for this part as well. You explain why you let people use Poser. I still have that on my PC. I would use same free models, same place for lights, dynamic hair, etc. for same scene. It would be allowed. But it wouldn't let me learn Carrara.

    Back when I first came here, we had a PC contest where we had a chance to win $25 of gift certificate. And as in last weeks my renders got better, I hoped to use contest for feedback about my "art". But I was informed that contest is no longer running "but" we have this one. Your Facebook contest ended, and was dominated by real pro-s.

    Too bad, for PC inspiration contests are limited in scope, and is hard to use for learning, and starts with an extra purchase. So we ran out of good and fun contests where I can learn.

    So when I moved to your flagship product I essentially got blocked from the contests where I can learn, and worse than that DAZ forum staff jumps on me because Carrara isn't free.

    I dare to say if your courtesy is extended towards people who use software from competitors, but you offer none but attacks for people who buy *your* products and want to participate in contest to learn then something is wrong here.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,339
    edited March 2013

    At this point I am going to split this conversation out of the Freebie challenge thread.

    Enerla I am sorry you saw my comments as offensive, it was merely a statement of fact. and not meant to be in any way an attack on anyone or any particular software, nor of the people that use it.

    The freebie challenge is run by a team of volunteers who do this for fun. It is not a contest that is run by DAZ 3D Forum Team members.

    We are not connected in any way with the PC Inspirations contests.

    Also please note that as member of the Forum Team I am also a volunteer, not a member of DAZ 3D staff. When I am posting in the freebie challenge thread it is accepted that there I am simply one of the freebie challenge team.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • EnerlaEnerla Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Still, as you see the key problem is the same. And when you accept paid content and plug ins, being "nonfree" is a strange reason to block Carrara. Stating it is "one of the 3 paid piece you can use" would look far more fair. And if you are a member of the team, you could see why it is a problem and it can influence the contest in the future.

    Of course there is one more thing to add. As I love Roleplaying games (pen and paper variety), I also own a few "map making apps" to use with them. Back when I still used DAZ studio, I explained how can I use maps created with Fractal Terrains (and bump maps / displacement maps created in same program) with DAZ Studio. Of course I am sure we can import such maps to Bryce and / or Carrara as well. But when I had to explain that, I decided to make a small image. It is super simple. But as you see it is assembled from 4 primitives, comes with displacement map, etc.

    If I throw a few primitives in the scene to make some custom stuff and do it in DAZ Studio, it will be on render, I can explain how I done it, etc. but can't really export it. Even if I stick by your rules and use a lot of freebies and only a few paid stuff, custom stuff can make things interesting.

    But the moment I do that, most of the custom work is lost to others, as I doubt if it can be efficiently turned into a freebie and shared. I lose on chances to reuse the content. And I couldn't refine my Carrara skills and wouldn't get relevant feedback, which is a thing I need most.

    Of course I can use interesting stuff in DAZ Studio with some camera plug ins to create displacement maps (good paid content).


    On the other hand, if someone would just post some renders with enough free content, and not much paid content, links to free content, etc, most wouldn't yell "but it was done in Carrara". Would you look for signs of that normally? Probably no.

    Asking about it, and seeing it similar to paid apps, paid plug ins, paid renderers, etc. is fair. But the key side effect is: Any custom stuff can be exported and can help fellow DAZ users as a freebie.

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  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    You do know about this Forum don't you? http://www.daz3d.com/forums/categories/66/
    It's all Carrara all the time. And is just for all the reasons you pointed out, Feedback and learning. You have also mentioned you have Poser and Daz Studio Pro, why not use one of them to enter the FreeBe Contest and win yourself a prize? I'm a Sponsor and it would not bother me one bit if you won a prize and spent every penny of it on new Carrara only content.

    And just so you know I do not work for Daz3D either. I'm also a volunteer helper.

  • EnerlaEnerla Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Sadly while that place is for discussions tied to Carrara it isn't the same thing as a contest. In a contest a lot of people start from same starting point, etc. and items are comparable, we can learn how to end up with something better and there is far more feedback.

    And while I can use other software to enter the contest, that wouldn't help me to refine my Carrara skills. And as I am far from an expert at this time, I doubt if it would get my a prize, but if I go back to other tools it would only confuse me while I learn Carrara.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Okay, I understand that. If only more Carrara users felt the same. I've been a Daz Member for over 4 years and not one Carrara contest has been successful so far. If I could help you and others I would.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,339
    edited December 1969

    Carrara is a completely different type of program to DS or Poser, as it does actually do so much more. At least when we say DS or Poser can be used then people are on a equal footing. Bryce needs either DS or Poser as a starting point from which to get DAZ 3D content into a scene, so again not as fully figured as Carrara.

    We do allow people own creations, but they need to be distributed freely somewhere, so everybody has the chance to use them as a freebie, which is the main point of the freebie challenge. In it's very first iteration it was all freebie content, no purchased items at all. It was started to prove the point that people did not need to spend oodles of money in order to create renders. This changed over time, most radically when DAZ 3D introduced a price for their base figures, which led to the "No Count" rule being added.

    This was the original contest, way back in 2008, from which the whole challenge has grown.
    http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=74684

    BTW the New Users Contest does allow the use of Carrara. Have you investigated that one. It is a two part contest, meant to be a learning challenge. The CV team debate the theme for the month, and you start off in a WIP thread, where you can get feedback and helpful hints to improve your render, and then once you think it is as good as it is going to get, then you enter it into the contest thread.

    And another BTW, although there are a few of us who do use Bryce as the final stage for our freebie challenge entries, a pure Bryce contest in NU, whilst getting a lot of interest at the WIP stages, only produced 5 final entries at the end of the month. The more general contests attract far more attention, and there are prizes at the end of the contest, as DAZ 3D sponsors, as do the PAs. so every month a PA will offer a prize for the winners.

    There are also a few Carrara renders being entered into the StoneMason contest in the Commons

  • SockrateaseSockratease Posts: 767
    edited December 1969

    I think we should get all the Cowrarra users to post Cowrarra Renders in the freebie challenge every month. You could get the feedback you want and Cowrarra could get the exposure it wants.

    Just be sure to mark them as Not Entries (or state "Rendered in Cowrarra" and let them disqualify it) (Rules are made to be broken, after all :vampire: ) (I well remember MuscleMan's contest where the theme was "Power" - make an image depicting Power however you want - so I rendered a Cow or something and said it depicted my Power to Ignore his rules!).

    Plus, as chohole said - there are always plenty of other contests out there.

    Let them Fear Cowrarra! Let them exile it from their competitions and give their flimsy excuses! WE all know they live in constant fear that Cowrarra renders would be too good and nobody else would stand a chance!

    They tremble at the very Mooing of the name Cowrarra!!

    And once The Millennium Cow is released as a Cowrarra Exclusive, and DAZ Officially changes the program's name to Cowrarra, they will all abandon their copies of DAZ Studio, Poser, and even Bryce. THEN they'll have no choice but to allow us into their little club!

    ...

    Really.

  • DorseylandDorseyland Posts: 707
    edited December 1969

    Sounds scary. Cows are frightening to begin with. You never know what they're thinking.

  • SockrateaseSockratease Posts: 767
    edited December 1969

    Sounds scary. Cows are frightening to begin with. You never know what they're thinking.

    See?

    I told you they were just scared!

    COWards.

  • jeeperzjeeperz Posts: 1,077
    edited December 1969

    without trying to offend let me put something to rest about why we allow Poser.
    I am the reason that Poser is accepted, I can say this because if anyone wants to look through the old threads to see, they will find the debate regarding poser's use in the contest. Back when Salashin started this contest, she only used DS and made this contest for DS users.I joined the second month and was a Poser user. I had gotten a version free several years before when Poser 3 had been offered free and I got a free upgrade to version 4 at the site, (not here at DAZ). I debated the use of only DS and after some discussion the decision was made to allow Poser to be used for renders in the contest. Bryce was added too, since it was being offered for free here at DAZ .

  • jeeperzjeeperz Posts: 1,077
    edited December 1969

    so I don't mean to sound like I and only I put Poser in the list but I definitely started that discussion since at the time only DS was allowed.

  • Lord GanthorLord Ganthor Posts: 543
    edited December 1969

    Sounds scary. Cows are frightening to begin with. You never know what they're thinking.

    See?

    I told you they were just scared!

    COWards.

    Cows don't scare me none. I eat 'em for breakfast...and lunch and supper. I'm attda top udda food chain an' proud uddit!

    without trying to offend let me put something to rest about why we allow Poser.
    I am the reason that Poser is accepted, I can say this because if anyone wants to look through the old threads to see, they will find the debate regarding poser's use in the contest. Back when Salashin started this contest, she only used DS and made this contest for DS users.I joined the second month and was a Poser user. I had gotten a version free several years before when Poser 3 had been offered free and I got a free upgrade to version 4 at the site, (not here at DAZ). I debated the use of only DS and after some discussion the decision was made to allow Poser to be used for renders in the contest. Bryce was added too, since it was being offered for free here at DAZ .

    Oh, so this is all your fault...*sigh* there's always one in every bunch...(just kidding!) Speaking for myself, and myself only, I don't have any problem with Carrara being used in the Challenge. If I understand the general gist of the conversation, it seems like the real question is can I use Carrara as a Render Engine? It's sort of the same way I use Bryce. I do all my set-ups in Studio (and on a very rare occasion, Poser 6) and import everything into Bryce for the final render. Some may argue that this would put Studio/Poser users at a disadvantage because Bryce is capable of doing things that the other programs naturally can't, like skies, volumetric effects and massive set building. With Bryce, I don't have to go looking for "free" settings of great scale or entire forests, for that matter, as I can build them myself with the program. I really hesitate to say this, but...all of the content in the world dumped into the greatest 3D program in the world won't make you any better if you can't assemble it all into a good compositional render that, at least, tells a story and gets some sort of point across.

    Am I making sense here? If not, I've got to go back and get a 2nd cup of coffee...I'm all for further discussion on the topic as I wouldn't mind trying Carrara one of these days myself.

  • DollyGirlDollyGirl Posts: 1,693
    edited December 1969

    I am going to throw in my two pennies worth.

    I look at the freebie contest. I read the rules .... Them's the rules. If I go to DSA and the rules say I gotta do this or that then .... them's the rules. I go to Runtimedna, they got rules. If I want to play then I follow them rules. End of subject. I do not debate them rules. This is the only contest that has a discussion about why them rules should not be followed on a fairly regular basis. (The reason for this escapes me. Is it because we try and reason with individuals? Justify why the rules are the way they are?). It doesn't really matter folks. Them's the rules. In this sand box we play by them rules. Don't feel that a reply is needed when a why not response comes back. That response is being made by an individual that is having issues with being told no.

    Now I will say that if an individual comes back with a response about "how about considering changing them rules in the coming months", then to me that is a more appropriate (read that as adult) response and should be discussed (but not in the current contest thread. Thank you Cho for breaking out this discussion this time.). Make a seperate thread where the idea of changing the rules can be considered, debated and decided on.

    Oh and I checkded the rules. Carrara is not listed as an allowed render engine. So the answer is no. So dust off Poser or Studio if you want to play in the freebie contest. Them's the rules. Live by them, Play by them, Grow by them!

  • jeeperzjeeperz Posts: 1,077
    edited December 1969

    WELL SAID Dollygirl, Do believe on that note... THIS subject shall be close. NUFSAID

  • SockrateaseSockratease Posts: 767
    edited December 1969

    But...

    Rules were Made to be Broken, Boiled, Burned, Buried, and resurrected 3 days later - thus starting the Next Big Religion to End All Religions!

    And any contest that does not revolve around Cows is just plain silly anyhow, so I guess the topic should be dropped - but not for any of the reasons given (except for the reason I just gave in this post).

  • jeeperzjeeperz Posts: 1,077
    edited December 1969

    But...

    Rules were Made to be Broken, Boiled, Burned, Buried, and resurrected 3 days later - thus starting the Next Big Religion to End All Religions!

    And any contest that does not revolve around Cows is just plain silly anyhow, so I guess the topic should be dropped - but not for any of the reasons given (except for the reason I just gave in this post).

    SMACK SMACK SMACK......... you have been pied..... now go to your corner and behave yourself or you will have your toys taken away til you can play nice.... NUF SAID

  • SockrateaseSockratease Posts: 767
    edited December 1969

    jeeperz said:
    But...

    Rules were Made to be Broken, Boiled, Burned, Buried, and resurrected 3 days later - thus starting the Next Big Religion to End All Religions!

    And any contest that does not revolve around Cows is just plain silly anyhow, so I guess the topic should be dropped - but not for any of the reasons given (except for the reason I just gave in this post).

    SMACK SMACK SMACK......... you have been pied..... now go to your corner and behave yourself or you will have your toys taken away til you can play nice.... NUF SAID


    Pie?

    Tastes more like Cake!

    Fish Cake!!

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  • jeeperzjeeperz Posts: 1,077
    edited December 1969

    Looks like its a meat eater to me

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,339
    edited December 1969

    Yeah me too. THis looks more like a fish cake

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  • SockrateaseSockratease Posts: 767
    edited December 1969

    jeeperz said:
    Looks like its a meat eater to me

    Yeah me too. THis looks more like a fish cake

    Meat, Fish, Cake...

    None of that matters.

    What matters is - What wine do you serve with it?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,339
    edited December 1969

    Well this expert says......................................

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  • BWSmanBWSman Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I like beer with my fish; especially in the batter.

  • jeeperzjeeperz Posts: 1,077
    edited March 2013

    That would be fishtail ale....

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    Post edited by jeeperz on
  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    Okay, I understand that. If only more Carrara users felt the same. I've been a Daz Member for over 4 years and not one Carrara contest has been successful so far. If I could help you and others I would.

    REALLY??! Are you KIDDING ME???

    Carrara 7 has been free in several magazines..., and Carrara 6 before that.

    I've been a DAZ Member for longer than you and I have seen only ONE contest from DAZ that was for Carrara when the hair first started and they were trolling for products...

    I also WON at least 2 DAZ contests with my entry from Carrara.

This discussion has been closed.
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