can i re-sell a daz account with all the content in?

creativemodelsbecreativemodelsbe Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in The Commons

can i re-sell a daz account with all the content in? have carrara, but don't need it anymore found other software today.

can i re-sell this? so i don't lose all my money with a product i will never use again.

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Comments

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 2,013
    edited December 1969

    No you can't.

  • creativemodelsbecreativemodelsbe Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    so i lost all my money on content that i never gonna use?

    :sick:

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,914
    edited December 1969

    You can open a Sales support ticket, but I would expect the answer to be no.

  • creativemodelsbecreativemodelsbe Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    thank you for the info.

  • Proxima ShiningProxima Shining Posts: 1,001
    edited December 1969

    You can return all items that you bought in DAZ store in the past 30 days. But selling the content that you bought in DAZ store is against the EULA. Actually, I think all 3D content stores have this rule, not just DAZ.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 1,842
    edited February 2013

    so i lost all my money on content that i never gonna use?

    :sick:

    Yep! Kinda' sucks doesn't it? But then again can you resell the movies you have downloaded and recorded from your TV Cable provider? Can you resell the music you downloaded from the Web? Can you resell the list of love lorn responders to your on-line dateing service? Of course if you have a copy of the information you can do whatever you want with it but it won't necessarily be legal.

    Point being that the world is evolving to accept the idea that information can be accessed but not owned. Protecting ownership becomes a heavy burden.

    The modern idea is to provide access to the newest version of data so that it becomes more important than owning any previous version. If they keep updating data on a rapid cycle you have to keep paying an access fee. If they stopped fixing problems or actually produced a stable product the one valid copy would quickly get traded out around the world forcing the producer to continually chase down and prosecute violators. However, if they keep changing the product then the old stuff becomes less desirable and the sucke... ( er customers) who want the latest and greatest have to keep making payments. This "Cloud" concept is a financial waterfall of gold for producers of continually updating data.

    Access to data is issued on a user identity basis. Your account with DAZ gives you access to the updates for the products you've purchased. DAZ doesn't transfer accounts from person to person.

    It's interesting to note that for a long time Adobe and their major uber-expensive products Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, PremierPro, etc. used to be permanent product license based, and they would transfer the license to other people. But even Adobe is switching to a cloud based subscription service. As is Microsoft's Office product. These big companies wouldn't be switching if there wasn't a pot of money at the end of the rainbow. (do you get the waterfall/rainbow reference?) 8-s

    DAZ's policy has always been "Not no how, not no way, are we going to allow you to give away or sell our product". Which is loud and firery talk from the man behind the curtain. But with all the updates and fixes and patches and improvements and technology changes that they throw at us I think they're seeing the wisdom for a total subscription service. Perhaps "soon"? Just watch. 8-o

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,128
    edited February 2013

    ...I sure hope it doesn't come down to that for to work totally online (just like streaming films or playing games) you need a very clean solid connection (which not everyone has and/ or is able to have depending on one's location). The last thing you need is a network timeout or reset to cause you to lose the work you've done up to that point or crash a render process that is nearly complete.

    Besides the software providers, going totally cloud based would also benefit the major cable internet and telecom providers that force users into oft expensive multiyear contracts with penalties for cancellation, services one may not need or want, download caps, and ever increasing rates.

    ----

    One thing I was wondering, doesn't Carrara have an FBX plugin to export to other software platforms?

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • ZyloxZylox Posts: 151
    edited February 2013

    Kyoto Kid said:
    One thing I was wondering, doesn't Carrara have an FBX plugin to export to other software platforms?


    Carrara 8 has native support for importing and exporting 3ds, COLLADA, and FBX as well as a variety of other file types. With a fairly inexpensive plug in, it can also import/export MDD. The OP may want to consider using Carrara in their workflow instead of just deleting it.


    edit: In the Carrara section of the forum, someone was discussing how they use FBX to export Genesis from Daz Studio and import it into Cinema 4D. Apparently it works extremely well.

    Post edited by Zylox on
  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,214
    edited December 1969


    It's interesting to note that for a long time Adobe and their major uber-expensive products Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, PremierPro, etc. used to be permanent product license based, and they would transfer the license to other people. But even Adobe is switching to a cloud based subscription service. As is Microsoft's Office product. These big companies wouldn't be switching if there wasn't a pot of money at the end of the rainbow. (do you get the waterfall/rainbow reference?) 8-s

    Well I'm not biting. No cloud stuff for me. I know many others feel the same way.

  • ShaneWSmithShaneWSmith Posts: 537
    edited February 2013

    We're not buying content. It's in the EULA we all agreed to. We're buying nontransferable licences to use the content. Like almost all digital goods, they can't be transferred legally to someone else. I would recommend exploring the export options in Carrara, or just chalking it up to the experience gained and move on. All the best!

    Post edited by ShaneWSmith on
  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,214
    edited February 2013

    We're not buying content. It's in the EULA we all agreed to. We're buying nontransferable licences to use the content. Like almost all digital goods, they can't be transferred legally to someone else.

    Hardly all. It's completely legal to resell a copy of Windows or a music CD, for example. A recent court ruling in the EU has also stated that it's legal to resell Video Games (and possibly other digital content), notwithstanding the EULA may say it isn't.

    .

    Post edited by Taozen on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,840
    edited December 1969

    It's always dangerous to assume a legal ruling in a specific case can be applied to a wide range of general cases.

    This certainly appears to have be the situation in the reference ruling from the Court of Justice of the European Union in the case of UsedSoft versus Oracle.

    So it cannot be used to demonstrate a general change in the laws. It was a very specific case, about one specific point.

  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,214
    edited December 1969

    As far as I understand it the EU ruling just reinforces an already existing EU directive:

    "The court's ruling hinges on the EU directive on the legal protection of computer programs, which introduces the principle of exhaustion of distribution right after first sale. Oracle argued that this does not apply to user licences downloaded from the internet.

    The Court rejected this claim, judging that the principle of exhaustion holds good for downloads as well as for copies distributed by CD-ROM or DVD. As with physical media, the owners of downloaded software must destroy their copies after selling to a third party, the Court ruled. Also, owners are not allowed to split multi-seat licences for resale in smaller units

    This is a sensible judgment, but does not have major ramifications for the software industry. The Court is merely reinforcing the right to sell secondhand software licences within the EU."

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/03/eu_court_secondhand_licence_ruling/

    How to define "software" in this context is another question, but since it's legal to resell e.g. music CDs as well as video games I imagine the EU directive(s?) covers a rather broad range of content. I've been unable to find any concrete information on this in their archives though. .

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,840
    edited December 1969

    Another thing to remember is that the EU courts are made up of people who are appointed rather than elected, and even some of the EU member countries are challenging the court's rights to decide matters for all EU Countries.

    However I will go no further on that matter as it is straying very much into the political realm, which is a forum NoNo.

  • creativemodelsbecreativemodelsbe Posts: 0
    edited February 2013

    The modern idea is to provide access to the newest version of data so that it becomes more important than owning any previous version. If they keep updating data on a rapid cycle you have to keep paying an access fee. If they stopped fixing problems or actually produced a stable product the one valid copy would quickly get traded out around the world forcing the producer to continually chase down and prosecute violators. However, if they keep changing the product then the old stuff becomes less desirable and the sucke... ( er customers) who want the latest and greatest have to keep making payments. This "Cloud" concept is a financial waterfall of gold for producers of continually updating data.

    Access to data is issued on a user identity basis. Your account with DAZ gives you access to the updates for the products you've purchased. DAZ doesn't transfer accounts from person to person.

    It's interesting to note that for a long time Adobe and their major uber-expensive products Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver, PremierPro, etc. used to be permanent product license based, and they would transfer the license to other people. But even Adobe is switching to a cloud based subscription service. As is Microsoft's Office product. These big companies wouldn't be switching if there wasn't a pot of money at the end of the rainbow. (do you get the waterfall/rainbow reference?) 8-s

    i prefer to own things manual, physical, have a movie on a disk on your personal harddrive.
    systems like the cloud, streaming will kill the internet back to the old days where people buy real books.

    guess in Europe it's legal to re-sell digital content.

    Post edited by creativemodelsbe on
  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,650
    edited December 1969

    but
    who exactly could you sell it too?
    they would need to use an account in YOUR name for any support.
    have no render publishing rights whatsoever
    it would be a serious ripoff for the purchaser!!

  • creativemodelsbecreativemodelsbe Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    at luxology there is some system that you can re-sell your license, it will cost you 100$
    i found this a great and fair use for people that would move on to other things or software.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,914
    edited December 1969

    This is all speculation - ask sales if you want the DAZ position, talk to a lawyer if you are going to argue. Forum pronouncements are non-binding.

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,480
    edited February 2013

    An EU court decision has no bearing on DAZ as it is based in the US and protected by US laws.

    Some software manufacturers have allowed transfer of license from one owner to another with the proper paperwork being filed and any necessary fees paid.

    When Curious Labs owner Poser, you could transfer your Poser license to another. CL even provided all the correct forms. I have a copy of 3DS Max6 under the Discreet branding. The license was transferred to me by one of my old companies when they were closing down. We filed all the proper paperwork, the company paid a nominal fee and the only caveat was that it was now non-transferable and the license was now personal rather than commercial.

    Except for Carrara 8, nearly all of DAZ's software has been offered for free either here on the website or on magazine CD's. Many Carrara users got their start and even their upgrades this way. C5Pro, C6Pro and C7Pro have all been given away on magazine CD's.

    I suppose the OP could contact DAZ and ask if he/she could transfer their Carrara license to a specific person. By transfer, I mean the OP gives the software to someone else. He/she does not go on eBay or some other site and offer it for sale to highest bidder.

    Post edited by icprncss on
  • Coon RaCoon Ra Posts: 200
    edited December 1969

    The field for future determination what is some kind of service paid account, paid piece of software, paid 3d model or whatever electronic thing and its right of usage - a transferrable piece of market product like housing, vehicle, machine-tool, etc., or a subject of domestic speculations to prohibit the right of usage transfer. There should be a final verdict of some high court to determine how the right of usage differs from right of production or market product in general. Personally in general I am fed up with the politics of most developers and copyright holders to use inefficiency of the law exclusively in their own interests.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    Personally the whole idea of reselling any digital content baffles me. We're not talking about a physical 'thing' here, we're talking about a bunch of ones and zeroes which can be duplicated ad infinitum. Items with a physical presence are more easily quantified as 'things' because to duplicate them requires a fair amount of effort and manual work reproducing it with new materials. Hitting the copy+paste key on a keyboard is an effortless way to duplicate digital wares, which puts content developers in a difficult situation.

    In the same vein, handing over a digital library to someone else for cash is like asking for your money back after eating a burger. For all intents and purposes, you've got what you paid for and it's non transferable. There's no one standing over your shoulder to see if you've really uninstalled all of that digital content, so no guarantee you'll honor the EULA and erase the data.

    It took me a while to get my head around Daz's return policy for those exact same reasons. The discrepancy of rules between digital and physical mediums exists for a good reason.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,330
    edited December 1969


    It took me a while to get my head around Daz's return policy for those exact same reasons. The discrepancy of rules between digital and physical mediums exists for a good reason.

    The problem here is that I don't buy a lot of digital content, games, movies because you can't return it if it blows. You can't even sell it. So I'm not touching the reselling of digital content point, I will touch Daz's return policy. The reason I ever spent any money here at all is because I was promised 30 day money back guarantee. You offer a return policy when you are proud of your product, and it really helps bring in new customers.

    With the Daz return policy you lose the right to use the item you returned. Makes perfect sense to me. I have purchased a few items here that ended not working at all. So I returned them. Bought something useful. Makes sense to me.

  • anikadanikad Posts: 1,860
    edited December 1969

    icprncss said:
    An EU court decision has no bearing on DAZ as it is based in the US and protected by US laws.

    The same could be said of Oracle, Microsoft...

  • Peter WadePeter Wade Posts: 354
    edited December 1969

    .... But with all the updates and fixes and patches and improvements and technology changes that they throw at us I think they’re seeing the wisdom for a total subscription service. Perhaps “soon”? Just watch. 8-o

    I would hate going to a subscription system. Maybe I'm old fashioned but I like to buy something once and know that I can keep on using it. With a subscription system the question is how much do you trust the supplier? At any time they might drastically increase the price, stop supporting the software or go out of business and you could be left with a load of software and content that you can't use anymore.

    I've already lost a few ebooks this way, the book supplier stopped dealing with the website that sold them so I couldn't re-download anymore. The books were locked to the unique ID of my computer so when I replaced the computer I couldn't read the books anymore. And I'm still waiting to see if any of the books I bought from eReader and Fictionwise will be transferred to my Nook account like they said they would.

    My opinion of the cloud is that it can provide a useful backup and remote access feature but I always want a local copy under my control.

  • icprncssicprncss Posts: 3,480
    edited December 1969

    anikad said:
    icprncss said:
    An EU court decision has no bearing on DAZ as it is based in the US and protected by US laws.

    The same could be said of Oracle, Microsoft...

    Oracle and Microsoft are essentially public companies with a presence on the stock exchanges and stock for sale. DAZ is a privately owned company. There is a big difference between the two...

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 1,259
    edited December 1969


    It took me a while to get my head around Daz's return policy for those exact same reasons. The discrepancy of rules between digital and physical mediums exists for a good reason.

    The problem here is that I don't buy a lot of digital content, games, movies because you can't return it if it blows. You can't even sell it. So I'm not touching the reselling of digital content point, I will touch Daz's return policy. The reason I ever spent any money here at all is because I was promised 30 day money back guarantee. You offer a return policy when you are proud of your product, and it really helps bring in new customers.

    With the Daz return policy you lose the right to use the item you returned. Makes perfect sense to me. I have purchased a few items here that ended not working at all. So I returned them. Bought something useful. Makes sense to me.

    I can't even fathom having that kind of mindset. Personally I feel DAZ should do away with their return policy as i am pretty sure it is abused by users getting a refund and still using the product since there is nothing stopping them. I have never bought something with the mindset of possibly returning it and have never used the return option here. I can see using it if a product does not work as advertised though or is defective, same as with a physical store.
    I have a very extensive movie and CD collection and have ones that i didn't like, but not being able to return them never entered the equation when it came down to buying, i just chalk it up to experience for next time.

  • robkelkrobkelk Posts: 3,190
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    Well I'm not biting. No cloud stuff for me. I know many others feel the same way.

    I work in cloud storage - we maintain the internal shared-storage system for (I'd rather not say). I know how reliable it is, when it's funded and maintained properly.

    I can't see any way how the worldwide, openly-available systems are funded to a level that would meet my criteria for usability. And DAZ3D is definitely not large enough to do the job in-house.

    So, yeah - give me local copies and I'll make my own backups, thank you.

  • robkelkrobkelk Posts: 3,190
    edited February 2013

    icprncss said:
    An EU court decision has no bearing on DAZ as it is based in the US and protected by US laws.

    US laws apply only in the US.

    (However, note that there are similar - but not identical - contract laws in other countries.)

    Post edited by robkelk on
  • ShaneWSmithShaneWSmith Posts: 537
    edited February 2013

    Taozen said:
    We're not buying content. It's in the EULA we all agreed to. We're buying nontransferable licences to use the content. Like almost all digital goods, they can't be transferred legally to someone else.


    Hardly all. It's completely legal to resell a copy of Windows or a music CD, for example. A recent court ruling in the EU has also stated that it's legal to resell Video Games (and possibly other digital content), notwithstanding the EULA may say it isn't.

    .

    They aren't digital goods. They're physical products. There's a difference.

    A more accurate comparison would be MP3 purchases from iTunes, videos streamed from Amazon, or eBooks purchased. And there are very few (if any) avenues for legal onsell of those goods.

    What astounds me is how completely people have jumped upon the 'digital goods' bandwagon, without really reading the associated terms and coming to terms with exactly what it is that they're buying.

    They've just made an assumption they've bought content, but it's more often than not a bad assumption.


    icprncss said:
    An EU court decision has no bearing on DAZ as it is based in the US and protected by US laws.

    The same could be said of Oracle, Microsoft...

    Oracle and Microsoft are essentially public companies with a presence on the stock exchanges and stock for sale. DAZ is a privately owned company. There is a big difference between the two...

    They (Microsoft and Oracle) also have offices in the EU - they are genuine global companies.

    Post edited by ShaneWSmith on
  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,330
    edited February 2013

    I can see using it if a product does not work as advertised though or is defective, same as with a physical store.
    I have a very extensive movie and CD collection and have ones that i didn't like, but not being able to return them never entered the equation when it came down to buying, i just chalk it up to experience for next time.

    EXACTLY, when a product is defective, doesn't work as designed, or in our case there is some technical reason it just don't work. So yes I think the Daz return policy makes sense. I probably should not have used the entertainment content example because how I feel about that area would take a lot more time to explain.

    People exploiting the system is irrelevant. My company has a return policy as well, but the numbers show that even though it is expensive for us to ship and then return 4k purchase, offering and advertising our return policy boosts sales of certain product lines because it gave customers some security. We make a lot more moving product that we do sitting on it. And our product IS good, so the vast majority do not return it. There is no reason consumers should trust businesses these days, and it's one of the reasons I don't buy 3D content from most sites. But when you go out of your way to make people feel safe you just might make a few more dollars off of them.

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
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