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Posted: 11 June 2012 03:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]
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I appreciate the position of the PAs and I sympathise with the difficulties of trying to please a diverse user base, especially when parts of that userbase are demanding diametrically opposite responses. I have no problem with people wanting to use different applications to those I choose use myself. I really don’t understand the sense of entitlement some users of this site seem to have though. Just as one customer may feel they are justified in complaining about change they don’t like, that doesn’t and never should override the views of other customers whose more positive views are equally valid, I shop here because I like the products and the people,

I suspect that making a special version of V5/M5 for Poser would actually create more arguments, rather than less, since you would then have some people pushing for more content for those, in additon the the existing demands for Genesis vs Gen4. I don’t believe all Gen4 users would, or could, adopt a Poserised V5/M5, so demand for Gen4 would still be there.  In addition I am sure there would be significant development costs, which someone would have to pick up the tab for, so the figures could be quite expensive.

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Posted: 11 June 2012 07:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]
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background - 11 June 2012 03:31 AM

I suspect that making a special version of V5/M5 for Poser would actually create more arguments, rather than less, since you would then have some people pushing for more content for those, in additon the the existing demands for Genesis vs Gen4. I don’t believe all Gen4 users would, or could, adopt a Poserised V5/M5, so demand for Gen4 would still be there.  In addition I am sure there would be significant development costs, which someone would have to pick up the tab for, so the figures could be quite expensive.

You may be right but I’m inclined to disagree. Alot of the content for Genesis is just a rework of Gen 4 outfits to work with Genesis (MFD, Liquid Halo, ArtemisX, Future Cop, Svana, Fantasy Wrap, just to name a few) and so if it can be converted from Gen 4 to Genesis then it should be able to go the other way as well. As for Poser users not being able to adopt V5/M5 the only reason they shouldn’t be able to is lack of money but if they can’t afford to buy stuff then they’re not going to be demanding anything. As I stated before whenever Daz switched from one generation to another there is some period where the older generation is still supported but it’s usually just a few months then nothing. Any Daz customer that has been thru that once or three times like me knows and is used to that being how things go. The only thing making this any different is the fact that the latest generation is also cutting out Poser as well as the previous generation. I also doubt the developement should be all that tricky or expensive they were able to fairly easily and quickly make Genesis be able to look like all the old Gen 5 figures so again making a V5 and M5 that works in poser should not be that complicated or problematic. I’ll admit though I could be wrong as I haven’t clue one about the technical aspect of figure creation. I’m just going by the things I’ve seen which suggests that it really shouldn’t be an issue. If anything is going to keep the demand strong for Gen 4 with Poser users is the fact that going forward Poser appears to be out of Daz’s loop, so the only choices for Poser customers is to either keep demanding Gen 4 stuff loudly, go back to older even less supported figures or go with some other company that developes figures that are better then Gen 4.

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Posted: 11 June 2012 08:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]
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Well if Genesis worked for everyone then you would probably see the same general trend of a month or two and then nothing much for Gen 4. In this case though the PAs that use Poser (like Sur, Ignis, myself) are in the same boat of not being able to create content for the latest thing (or not wanting to depending) so because of that I don’t see Gen 4 going away. Not unless somehow our minds on DS change and since Genesis and DS4 have been out quite some time now (far longer then a few months…going towards 1 year I believe) and many are still supporting Gen 4 or supporting both, I can’t see that just “stopping”. I can see people making this for one and that for the other depending on what it is possibly or trying out supporting things individually to see what works best for each PA but at least for now unless something change, I don’t see Gen 4 phasing out to nothingness like Gen 3 did. ATM most PAs are still just trying to sort out the best workflow for their items…Genesis, Gen 4, DS, Poser, all, none etc LOL

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Posted: 11 June 2012 11:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]
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I don’t think the Gen4 line will be phased out quickly.

The previous major figures were replaced by a process of evolution. All users had the opportunity to use the new versions as they became available, so there was no real value in retaining the older versions just for their own sake. This time the process is more revolution rather than evolution, and at least for the moment there are practical reasons why some customers can’t use Genesis. There is therefore good reason for DAZ to continue with Gen4 so long as there is demand, and so long as Gen4 content sells sufficienty well to justify keeping it in the store, and adding new content. 

I have no connection with DAZ other than as a customer, so the above is just my opinion, and nothing more.

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Posted: 11 June 2012 12:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]
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Well I’m only suggesting Gen 4 might be phased out soon because as it stands now there are a number of addons to make legs, arms, butt, breasts etc look better. In the past the evolution of figures always seemed to be about creating a more realistic looking figure. So I’m guessing that rather then continuing on with an imperfect item that needs so many addons for enhanced realism they would just come out with a newer version for Poser, if not V5/M5 then maybe V6/M6? If demand stays high (people demanding loudly for it) and there is no better figure available then sure in that case Gen 4 will stay around a good while.

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Posted: 11 June 2012 01:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]
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There is sill gen3 stuff in the store so I don’t see it fading out anytime soon. A lot of Poser PA’s are still supporting Gen4 so that would be another reason.

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Posted: 11 June 2012 05:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]
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surreality - 10 June 2012 12:07 AM

Some of this is going to get a little technical, and for that I apologize. It’s also going to meander a little around some interconnected points.  Just getting that out of the way in advance. smile Y’all will also very quickly see why I never post: I am a shockingly long-winded person by default. 


I am also going to share a (work-safe, no worries there) link that Arien shared with me, and I’ve been doing my level best to spread all over the dang interwebs ever since. It’s here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikAb-NYkseI—and this is all delivered by a wiser and far more articulate soul than I could ever hope to be.

 

I just had to stop back in and say thanks for sharing this. I really enjoyed it. This was my favorite quote:

 

“You get work however you get work, but people keep working, in a freelance world, and more and more of today’s world is freelance, because their work is good, and because they’re easy to get along with and because they deliver the work on time… and you don’t even need all three.
Two out of three is fine. (audience laughter)

People will tolerate how unpleasant you are, if your work is good and you deliever it on time.

People will forgive the lateness of your work if it’s good and they like you.

And you don’t have to be as good as everyone else if you’re on time and it’s always a pleasure to hear from you.”

  -Neil Gaiman

 

Thanks again.

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Posted: 11 June 2012 05:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 83 ]
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There is so, so very much in that link that I really love—that’s one of the big ones. smile

There is also a lot of truth in it! I do think we do our best work when we’re dangling our rumps out in the wind in some respect. The whole bit about ‘doing it for the money’ rarely resulting in something you like OR the money another big one; it’s certainly been my experience.

There’s a bit more I’d love to say, but our AC is sputtering, and I’m wary of running the (one, there’s only the one) comp too long until it’s fixed up. (See, I burned out the AC with my long-windedness; all that hot air overpowered the poor thing! Now we know what can stop a Trane. wink )

One thing I DO want to say, however: I don’t know a single PA who doesn’t really appreciate their customers. Zaarin is one of my favorite people in the world to hear from. wink (So NO feeling bad about mentioning me, got it? *chuckle*) There are SO many others I dare not try to make a list out of fear I’d forget someone, but y’all (hopefully) know who you are. When times are rough, sometimes it’s -really- easy to forget to say one thing that is amazingly important: thank you guys for sticking through all of this with us this far, and I know that at least I really hope that when all the dust settles, we can all keep making good art. smile

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Posted: 11 June 2012 08:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 84 ]
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Let me add my voice to those who feel frozen out, here. I don’t want to point fingers at anyone. I can’t blame DAZ for wanting to push the envelope with a new figure. I don’t know enough about how software works to understand why SM didn’t want to make Genesis Poser-compatible (or why DAZ simply couldn’t do that in the first place) and it really doesn’t matter. That’s just the case. I will not switch to Studio - too much time to learn it and I’d have to download way too much stuff that I never did - I always only got the Poser files of products I bought. I am also unlikely to buy Poser 2014 or whatever the next version is unless it supports Genesis or unless SM comes out with their own figures - and by that I mean ones that are up to DAZ standards and, most importantly, include CHILD figures. That horror that is Ben is in now way acceptable.
I am unsure if I am going to keep the PC or not. Depends on the ratio to clothes (which I can’t use) or props. I like the props - I suspect I will try the PC for one more year.
But this site has lost a lot for me. I used to come here several times a day. Now it goes days without me checking. The new forum is UGLY and unpleasant to look at. It hurts my eyes. The store is a mess. I don’t get the same nice, fun feelings I used to get. I was a DAZ booster from when I first signed up, but not when I get here, I open leave in a worse mood than when I came. What’s the fun in that? I really hope things change for the better - this is what I do for fun and I really enjoyed it. I will keep using the figures I have - shoot, it’s not like K4 got a ton of support anyway - but I hope DAZ is at least able to right the ship. And I hope whoever had the idea for Genesis got fired - it was an extremely poor business decision to alienate half of your customer base even for a more advanced figure.

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Posted: 11 June 2012 10:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 85 ]
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Treasurer_and_Battle - 11 June 2012 08:00 PM

Let me add my voice to those who feel frozen out, here. I don’t want to point fingers at anyone. I can’t blame DAZ for wanting to push the envelope with a new figure. I don’t know enough about how software works to understand why SM didn’t want to make Genesis Poser-compatible (or why DAZ simply couldn’t do that in the first place) and it really doesn’t matter. That’s just the case. I will not switch to Studio - too much time to learn it and I’d have to download way too much stuff that I never did - I always only got the Poser files of products I bought. I am also unlikely to buy Poser 2014 or whatever the next version is unless it supports Genesis or unless SM comes out with their own figures - and by that I mean ones that are up to DAZ standards and, most importantly, include CHILD figures. That horror that is Ben is in now way acceptable.
I am unsure if I am going to keep the PC or not. Depends on the ratio to clothes (which I can’t use) or props. I like the props - I suspect I will try the PC for one more year.
But this site has lost a lot for me. I used to come here several times a day. Now it goes days without me checking. The new forum is UGLY and unpleasant to look at. It hurts my eyes. The store is a mess. I don’t get the same nice, fun feelings I used to get. I was a DAZ booster from when I first signed up, but not when I get here, I open leave in a worse mood than when I came. What’s the fun in that? I really hope things change for the better - this is what I do for fun and I really enjoyed it. I will keep using the figures I have - shoot, it’s not like K4 got a ton of support anyway - but I hope DAZ is at least able to right the ship. And I hope whoever had the idea for Genesis got fired - it was an extremely poor business decision to alienate half of your customer base even for a more advanced figure.

SmithMicro made it clear last summer that they had no intention of rewriting Poser to add file formats that are propriatary to DAZ.  If you have Poser, you can convert clothing easily from 1 character to another.  I have run most of my clothing through it.  Every female character I own (the Gen4 figures, Gen 3, Miki 1,2,3, G2 females, Laura etc all have access to my V4 wardrobe (40 Gb at last count)

If you want to improve the characters you already own, you can weight map them withPoser Pro 2012. 

I am to the point I am ready to hop off the fence and join the exodus that was started with genesis.  As a Poser user there is less and less reason to shop here.

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Posted: 11 June 2012 10:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 86 ]
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My eyes start watering after a few minutes of attempting to read posts.  It’s a bit easier to read the quotes ... apparently, the bluish grey background provides more contrast than the light grey.


But whatever it is ... I now close the tabs after visiting the site, where in the past, I always kept the DAZ store and forums open in tabs.  And ... I go days between visits now too.

.

Treasurer_and_Battle - 11 June 2012 08:00 PM

But this site has lost a lot for me. I used to come here several times a day. Now it goes days without me checking. The new forum is UGLY and unpleasant to look at. It hurts my eyes.

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Posted: 12 June 2012 02:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 87 ]
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Totally OT but I don’t like the color scheme either…just saying LOL With my eyes that was the first thing I said when I saw the new site…OOOOWW my eyeses hehe I tend to like the darker colors, find it easier on my eyes to read light on dark *though I know others are the exact opposite and whites etc are still somewhat seen as more professional in some circles and the automatic pick for default in some cases* Dark sites tend to make artwork and products pop off the page more as well or to me which is an additional benefit. I doubt they will get to even thinking about doing that or adding in schemes for awhile though :( In the meantime there are plugins for most of the browsers like Color It for those interested. I didn’t just cuz I have had time to mess with it though I do wonder if someone made a color it theme if it is something that could possibly be shared? OK sorry back to regularly scheduled programming all ready taking place smile .....

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Posted: 12 June 2012 04:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 88 ]
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I fully understand DAZ’s business decision to primarily.support Genesis because their own software supports it and Poser doesn’t.  I am not angry, nor feeling personally disenfranchised, but I am sad about it.  I used to spend 1000’s of dollars a year here.  Enough so that I was told by the marketing here that I was one of their top spenders.  (They called by phone to do a survey on how I used the models I bought).  Like many others here, I have stopped buying from here.  I dropped my membership around the time they gave away all the pro versions of their software, which I had paid for. I think they have made some poor business decisions, and I voted my decision with my wallet. 

The thing I miss the most is the ongoing work of some of the most talented independent 3D model makers around.  I hope that they don’t give up on the Poser platform, to create mainly Genesis content.  Of the figure based 3D software, I cannot imagine that a new product like DAZ Studio has the majority of professional 3D artist.  So to all the PA’s out there, please don’t give up creating content for those of us, who did not choose to adopt the new Genesis platform.

As many here have stated, I think we are going to have to choose one platform or the other.  If for no other reason than cost.

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Posted: 12 June 2012 01:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 89 ]
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Definitely look into something that can recolor the site. It takes a few minutes to set it up, but it’s very worth the time. If you go from the main forum page, you should be able to get the whole forum covered that way. (The white white white was kicking me into epic eyestrain, and then full-blown migraines if I looked for long, so I genuinely empathize with the folks having issues with this.) I’m using ‘Color That Site’ with Firefox, and I even went the lazy route: I did a lot of ‘invert these colors’ and then just tweaked the few that were suddenly intensely ugly, and all was well. ;) I’ve got something more or less black with beige and/or white text for the time being and it’s a mercy on my poor, addled brain—I didn’t aim for custom/fancy/exactly to my taste, so it didn’t take too long. I look really dumb wearing sunglasses in the house. ;)


Again, I’m probably not one of the vendors that everyone is clamoring from content from, but I can promise I’m not going to be dropping development for Poser any time soon. Heck, even if I just finish what I have started now I’d have enough releases for the rest of this year and then some. ;) Beyond that, I really, genuinely enjoy working in Poser—so dropping the part of my work that I find fun? Not gonna happen without in intervention from the bodysnatchers. That’s a promise, folks, and you are very welcome to hold me to it; in fact I quite sincerely hope you do, not just through the end of this year, but in years to come. So long as people are using Poser, I’m probably going to be using Poser, provided my hands are still attached and my eyes are working as eyes should, and when it comes down to it, I just really, really like making stuff for it.


I’d also really like to thank the folks in this thread for keeping it very civil and respectful. I think that’s given a lot of us the chance to express ourselves—customers, DAZ staff, PAs, and even innocent baffled bystanders—in a very genuine way that isn’t always possible when people have their claws out. That, in itself, is a very positive and encouraging sign, even if not everyone agrees about everything. It’s pretty much the best we can hope for: to express the reality of our situation, and hope folks out there ‘get it’. I know that even if I’m not often posting, I’ve often been reading through the past couple of years—not just here, but on Renderosity and RDNA’s forums as well. The enormous thing I take from the various conflicts and stresses is that this market’s population, in all of its forms (again, be it customers, freebie makers, vendors, brokerage staff members, moderators, and so on) continues to care greatly about its continued existence, no matter how ‘small’ we are in the grand scheme of things or compared to some other hobby markets out there. Someone very close to me and I fight almost as often as we get along; we argue and bicker and sometimes nit-pick each other to pieces over the tiniest of things, but in the end, it’s because we actually care. It’s easy to lose sight of that in the heat of any given conflict, but it is valuable to remember, whenever possible, that if nobody gave a damn, there would be nothing at all to argue about in the first place. It would all instead be met with a shrug, and we’d be moving on to something else. :)

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Posted: 14 June 2012 06:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 90 ]
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I’d used Color That Site with Firefox, but I now use Chrome.

So ... I looked in the Chrome store and found Stylebot ... which allows you to override the css on a site.

The first thing I did was to make the text bold!  As that helps a whole lot.  It didn’t take all that much longer to figure out how to use it than it took to figure out Color That Site, but it seems to give more control than I remember with Color That Site.

Now to see if my eyes are happier.

surreality - 12 June 2012 01:41 PM

Definitely look into something that can recolor the site. It takes a few minutes to set it up, but it’s very worth the time. If you go from the main forum page, you should be able to get the whole forum covered that way. (The white white white was kicking me into epic eyestrain, and then full-blown migraines if I looked for long, so I genuinely empathize with the folks having issues with this.) I’m using ‘Color That Site’ with Firefox, and I even went the lazy route: I did a lot of ‘invert these colors’ and then just tweaked the few that were suddenly intensely ugly, and all was well. wink I’ve got something more or less black with beige and/or white text for the time being and it’s a mercy on my poor, addled brain—I didn’t aim for custom/fancy/exactly to my taste, so it didn’t take too long. I look really dumb wearing sunglasses in the house. wink

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