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Posted: 10 June 2012 01:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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@Ann: I guess that’s what I get for speculating where I had no business speculating. :( Also, thank you for your continued support of Gen4. It’s meant a lot to me. smile

@Surreality: Sorry for dragging you in to this! Again, I feel bad talking about things I really didn’t know about. :( Thanks for your post, and for your honest discussion of what’s going on. Also, I was thinking about making a purchase but I’ll be waiting for your next release instead. wink I also hear you on time management; I’ve been working on converting some of Marieah’s products to Poser, and finding the focus to just sit down and make materials roughly equivalent to DS materials…it’s a challenge. Especially when I had school claiming my time (last semester caught me completely off guard with how demanding it would be), and now getting a new computer and having to reinstall everything…Yeah. I’m a workaholic myself, but my creative energies tend to focus more on my writing and linguistic work than art, sadly.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 03:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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Zaarin: Don’t feel bad…we all speculate from time to time and when that part of the topic isn’t discussed often its easy to do I think smile 


I feel kinda badly bringing the other POV into this but it needed to be said. As this fight wages on (like with any actually war) people in the middle get swept into it and start feeling the whole “pick a side” pressure. I know I have…to such an extent that a few month back (while not public knowledge) I debated on not doing products at all anymore. The general pressure from this topic, combined with how angry folks are on both sides, combined with my own self need to “make everyone happy” has made it very hard for me to feel inspired about anything. The whole time I am working, instead of thinking about who my character “is” (yes they all have a personality that tends to come out to me at some point and tell me who they are kinda) but instead now instead of kinda hearing them I hear…why did you do this like that. Why wasn’t this included…how could you not care about this or that group over and over in my head and honestly it is zapping all creativity.


My choice (since I have other choices) was to move to doing our freebies and environment stuff since that I thought was less likely to make me feel that way but even then it’s more of the same though on a smaller scale. :( This is not me saying I don’t want feedback…I do. I LOVE feedback. I want to know how we can be making things better, and what we need to do to forge onward in more positive, creative directions but it’s kinda the lack of general positive feedback to offset the ideas that over the months has become less and less and less.


As I mentioned before, for me, I don’t need a ticker tape parade or fan fair or anything but like any other creative person, knowing people love what you are doing (or even like it) is something that does help you want to put your butt in your seat and keep going. Some people make what they make for them and some days I so envy those people. They make what they feel and makes them happy and they don’t fret about the rest. I sadly by design tend to be a people pleaser (kinda in all facets of my life actually) and tend to work in the direct opposite way :(  Which is really really hard these days when everyone is so unhappy.


Now to go off topic a little and into something larger then this issue…and please know if what I say ticks you off…this is just me…and only me saying how I feel. Not anyone at DAZ3D at all. (Matter of fact they would probably not be happy with me for defending them on any level.. but I just can’t kinda keep going without saying, at least once, how I feel which may upset some and for that I greatly apologize but I hope you read it in the spirit it is said in which is more about putting things in perspective then anything)


I get the unhappiness here and the frustration. I really do. Things have not gone smoothly for some time. People are kinda fed up with things as everything has just compounded…one issue on top of another…DS4, Genesis, no documentation, fights about who has the bigger ...erm… app (*smile*), changes to Platinum Club, a site changeover that has not went so hot (yes I very politely understated that), support and customer service getting backed up, etc.


All these things have drained everyone here. The customers, PA’s, DAZ3D itself. If one thing went right, I may fall over of a heart attack at this point. I do know DAZ3D has been working to resolve many of these things (the site changeover and the support backup currently being the two big ones) but people have lost faith in their ability to turn things around I think.


Now to take this to a more personal level which I may regret:
In my own life, we have struggled a LOT (and totally suffer from “our best plans or intentions never seem to pan out the way we expected”) and I know what it is like for people to look at you and go yeah right you’re trying your best ...yeah sure you’ll have what you owe us next week (soon…yeah right I’m not betting on that). I know what it’s like for people to assume the worst and least from you even after years of being faithful to them and doing your best to come through on every every promise with good results 98% of the time. They can’t see how hard you are trying to make ends meet or just how hard you are working to make things better and to fix whatever it is you dropped the ball on. They just look at a piece of paper where you are another number, look over the last year or whatever and make their assumptions based on that number. With the economy the way it is, I am sure many of us have been on the receiving end of that sort of thinking. The thought that you are not the sum of all your past actions, just the sum of the last so many where you were wrong or things didn’t go as you said or expected. :( I guess what I am saying here is people are more then that. We are all more then that. DAZ3D is more then that. Yes, they have dropped the ball. Had some problems. Had some things happen they didn’t expect and now aren’t sure how to resolve (like genesis in Poser). It kinda just rips my heart out to see them only be the sum of those things but not be the sum of all the good they have done as well :( I know the ball is in their court to fix this perception and to restore your faith, just like the ball being in mine to make the collectors I deal with see I am working in the right direction as well. I just truly hope everyone can maybe stop a moment to just think about the positives as well and give them the time they need to turn things around on all fronts. I do know they are trying or I wouldn’t be standing here right now saying any of this.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 04:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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DAZ_ann0314 - 10 June 2012 03:00 PM

Zaarin: Don’t feel bad…we all speculate from time to time and when that part of the topic isn’t discussed often its easy to do I think smile


....snip….


I do know they are trying or I wouldn’t be standing here right now saying any of this.

Thank you Aundrea for pouring your heart out like that, it is much appreciated.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 06:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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@surreality - Love your post, and yes I did read it all. Alllllllllll of it lol.


Between you and Ann, I think we all have a better idea now of the situation the vendors are in. I personally have not intentionally tried to hurt anyone’s feelings, or chase anyone’s muse away. Maybe an idea for you and Ann (and others feeling the same) could take our wanting your creations to work in our chosen program (whatever program that may be) as a compliment rather than a constant headache? Perhaps that would make things a bit easier on you?


I wouldn’t expect anyone to choose sides, or expect anyone to have a Genesis & Poser version of everything they release (would hope for a Poser version of course lol), or boycott anyone that made a Genesis/DS only product. As I said before, if something compatible with Poser is released that I have use for I will buy it if I have the $ at the time, or try and get it when I can afford it. I wish I was rich so I could buy every shiny new toy.


I don’t like the app wars either. I’ve never said one was better/worse than the other because I honestly do not know. No matter what computer I’ve had I’ve never been able to get DS to run properly, if at all. So I can’t compare Poser & DS.


I wish there was an easy solution to all of this…..

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Posted: 10 June 2012 07:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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There were alot of great points made in the last two pages and I want to thank Anne and Surreality for their insight. I can’t speak for everyone but perspectives from PA’s on this issue carry far more weight then anyone else’s as you’re on the frontlines and you know, rather then assume what it’s like, to do what you PA’s do.


I’d like to address a couple of points that were made or implied. Mainly the one of “I’m trying to support Gen 4 but nobody seems to notice or appreciate that fact in the forums.” I’m willing to bet that the vast majority saying nobody is supporting Gen 4, even though you guys actually are supporting it, are people who are unaware of your work. Like Surreality, you’ve stated you go for more unconventional, less pin up like characters, which is fine, I love your work and have bought many of your items. Pin up characters are so prevelent and plentiful that they’ve become something of a joke to me, kind of like a NVIATWAS (Naked Vicky In A Temple With A Sword). Anyway, there are so many vendors that it’s difficult for individuals to fully keep up with everything that’s being done by all PA’s and so when they say “Nobody is supporting Gen 4 or Poser” it i really more just their perception and they might not be aware of the efforts of those who do still support Gen 4 or Poser. I imagine some are including you guys because perhaps they are interested in things other then what certain individual PA’s make. For example if someone was a consumer that wants the Pinup look then it’s likely that a Surreality type figure is even on their radar and so to them it still feels like nobody is supporting Gen 4 because nothing they want is being made for Gen 4. Now I’m saying that more to illustrate the point and am not trying to say no PA is making Pinup type characters for Gen 4 figures. So I would say try not to take it personally when people make blanket statements but rather only take it personally when someone says that you specifically are or are not doing something. I’d also bet that times when people have responded in ways where they dismiss your efforts that you pointed out, it probably comes when you step into a debate like this and say “Well I for one am still making Gen 4 stuff”. If they said “Nobody is making Gen 4 stuff” and you say “Well actually that’s not true, I am” even though maybe you didn’t mean it that way you more or less just called them a liar. Their perspective of nobody is doing something is technically wrong as they’re really saying “Nobody is making stuff I personally want for Gen 4” but if you correct that in a debate they’re likely to feel challenged and are likely to respond defensively. Unfortunately human nature for most is that we tend to say things we don’t really mean when we get defensive.


Another point I would like to address is the notion that this debate is an all or nothing debate. There may be some that just totally hate Studio for some reason or another but from all of the people I know on the side feeling Poser users are becoming neglected, none of them want to see Genesis dropped they just don’t want to see Gen 4 stuff dropped. I personally want to see Genesis stay around because I some point I do want to use it and Studio. Not exclusively but rather in addition to Poser. I don’t think any of the Poser users that are upset are wanting to force the rest of the world to use Poser, they just don’t want to feel like they’re being force to use Studio. Even though really and truely nobody is being forced to use anything. Perhaps a big part of the problem is that the market has grown and been directed in such a way as to leave the average customer totally dependent on others to create content for them rather then them creating it themselves. I’m not saying that necessarily bad because by going that way it opens the world up to people who are artistic but just can’t grasp how to make things themselves. Unfortunately if one can’t make things themselves then they lose that as an option when nobody is making things they want.


I think what’s really at issue for alot of the people on the Poser side of this debate is the history of Poser content and how companies like Daz supply them. I remember very similar debates when Daz moved away from Gen 3 to Gen 4. Although those debates weren’t about Poser not being supported. What I’m trying to get at though is that historically once a new generation comes out support for the older generation dries up and virtually disappears, at least at Daz. It wasn’t so bad though because in the past the new generation was still meant for Poser as Studio was in the early stages of developement. With Gen 5 though if you don’t use Studio you’re SOL and this whole issue might not exist if Daz made V5 and M5 as a Genesis version and a Poser Version. The thing though is this, if Daz continues true to it’s history Gen 4 will die out and at that point customers loving only Poser will either have to adapt or go elsewhere. Unfortunately deep down they don’t want to go elsewhere. Deep down they want to stay with Daz but not if they have to give up what they’re comfortable with.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 09:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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DAZ_ann0314 - 10 June 2012 03:00 PM

>snip

Now to take this to a more personal level which I may regret:
In my own life, we have struggled a LOT (and totally suffer from “our best plans or intentions never seem to pan out the way we expected”) and I know what it is like for people to look at you and go yeah right you’re trying your best ...yeah sure you’ll have what you owe us next week (soon…yeah right I’m not betting on that). I know what it’s like for people to assume the worst and least from you even after years of being faithful to them and doing your best to come through on every every promise with good results 98% of the time. They can’t see how hard you are trying to make ends meet or just how hard you are working to make things better and to fix whatever it is you dropped the ball on. They just look at a piece of paper where you are another number, look over the last year or whatever and make their assumptions based on that number. With the economy the way it is, I am sure many of us have been on the receiving end of that sort of thinking. The thought that you are not the sum of all your past actions, just the sum of the last so many where you were wrong or things didn’t go as you said or expected. :( I guess what I am saying here is people are more then that. We are all more then that. DAZ3D is more then that. Yes, they have dropped the ball. Had some problems. Had some things happen they didn’t expect and now aren’t sure how to resolve (like genesis in Poser). It kinda just rips my heart out to see them only be the sum of those things but not be the sum of all the good they have done as well :( I know the ball is in their court to fix this perception and to restore your faith, just like the ball being in mine to make the collectors I deal with see I am working in the right direction as well. I just truly hope everyone can maybe stop a moment to just think about the positives as well and give them the time they need to turn things around on all fronts. I do know they are trying or I wouldn’t be standing here right now saying any of this.

Ann, this broke my heart. :( Partly because I hate to see anyone struggling so and partly because I’m walking the same path. I was out of work for 2 years except for some on again off again demo jobs and even though I’ve been working full time for a year and a half now, it’ll be another 2 years until we get even…maybe, possibly, if nothing else goes wrong.

But believe this Ann and Surreality, and especially Daz- there are loads of us out here rooting for you! We’re the ones just popping into a thread to say it’s a lovely product without any “but” after it. We’re the ones reading some of these threads lately and getting sick over the hate being spewed at Daz. We’re the ones only posting to confirm a problem so it might give Daz another clue, or helping someone solve a problem with the new site that we know a work around for. And we’re shopping the way we always did, and we’re waiting for the PC issues to be resolved. There really are lots of us.


We know the saying “the best laid plans..” and we’ll wait til all is fixed, knowing Daz will do something spectacular and all will be right with this corner of the world. smile
I’ve been here long enough to feel like Daz and lots of you all are like family, and family sometimes makes you crazy but in the end it’s still family. smile

We’ll all be ok!

Love and Light.. Sassy

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Posted: 10 June 2012 10:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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DAZ_ann0314 - 10 June 2012 03:00 PM


Now to take this to a more personal level which I may regret:
In my own life, we have struggled a LOT (and totally suffer from “our best plans or intentions never seem to pan out the way we expected”) and I know what it is like for people to look at you and go yeah right you’re trying your best ...yeah sure you’ll have what you owe us next week (soon…yeah right I’m not betting on that). I know what it’s like for people to assume the worst and least from you even after years of being faithful to them and doing your best to come through on every every promise with good results 98% of the time. They can’t see how hard you are trying to make ends meet or just how hard you are working to make things better and to fix whatever it is you dropped the ball on. They just look at a piece of paper where you are another number, look over the last year or whatever and make their assumptions based on that number. With the economy the way it is, I am sure many of us have been on the receiving end of that sort of thinking. The thought that you are not the sum of all your past actions, just the sum of the last so many where you were wrong or things didn’t go as you said or expected. :( I guess what I am saying here is people are more then that. We are all more then that. DAZ3D is more then that. Yes, they have dropped the ball. Had some problems. Had some things happen they didn’t expect and now aren’t sure how to resolve (like genesis in Poser). It kinda just rips my heart out to see them only be the sum of those things but not be the sum of all the good they have done as well :( I know the ball is in their court to fix this perception and to restore your faith, just like the ball being in mine to make the collectors I deal with see I am working in the right direction as well. I just truly hope everyone can maybe stop a moment to just think about the positives as well and give them the time they need to turn things around on all fronts. I do know they are trying or I wouldn’t be standing here right now saying any of this.

Well, I am afraid I have to disagree with you.  DAZ isn’t more than that.


But I want you to understand WHY I feel this way.  This is the important part.


It isn’t just this screw-up.  This store rollout is just the latest in a very, very long line of scew-ups.  I have YEARS of this (Cararra 6, Hexagon 2, I could go on and on.)


This website rollout is like a living monument to the Dunning-Kruger effect.


How many YEARS are we supposed to give them a pass?  The excuses I am hearing now are the exact same excuses I was hearing in 2005.  The actions don’t change, we just get an endles variations of “We are sorry.”


I am tired of words - words without actions are meaningless.  Trying isn’t enough and the maximum range of an excuse is 0 meters.


I will believe DAZ is serious about righting the ship when someone is shown the door for their screw-ups.  That isn’t harsh - it is a simple reality - decision have consequences.  This a business and DAZ needs to start acting like a business instead of an emo teenager.

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Posted: 10 June 2012 10:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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SassyWench - 10 June 2012 09:20 PM

I’ve been here long enough to feel like Daz and lots of you all are like family, and family sometimes makes you crazy but in the end it’s still family. smile

I feel the same way. This is so much my home and family away from home and my solace from the chaos kinda. I’ve spent a blessed 8 years here surrounded by the most amazing people I’ve never gotten to meet but know better then my next door neighbors LOL


My feelings on the whole Poser/DS thing:
I do know when people say “nothing is being released” it isn’t meant personally. And I daily remind myself of that and I also agree saying “but that isn’t true” would be calling someone’s perception or feelings wrong or a lie which is something I don’t ever want to do as saying someone is wrong for their personal feelings is a complete injustice to that person. Life kicks us all in the gut enough without doing it to each other here. I did want to share how it feels for me though as I felt it was worth saying but it wasn’t directed at anyone specifically…more just the topic generally. And I hope no one felt it was directed “at them”. I just wanted to explain how I was feeling as I rarely do these days because I am a DAZ employee as well as a PA and I don’t want what I say as a PA to reflect badly on DAZ3D because I am also an employee. Those that are on my own sites’ forums know it got to a point where I thought about just walking away from being a PA. Not because anyone did anything wrong but just because the amount of pressure from all this was almost too overwhelming to deal with.


Between the users of these two apps, sometimes it does feel like being stuck in the middle of a war zone with people on all sides pulling at you to pick a side. ( I do understand why it’s like this though…creative people after all are very passionate people) Well I am stating here and now, I love Poser. BUT I also love DAZ3D so by extension I love their baby DAZ Studio. I respect those that choose it over Poser just as I hope they respect my choice as well. Watching these threads where people fight over the apps and almost seemingly try to force each other to choose theirs has just GOT…TO…STOP. If someone wants to see more Poser items, they have that right. If someone wants to see more DS items…they too have that right. Just stop, stop, stop fighting each other on who has more rights…which app is the best…which company is to “blame” All that is doing is putting those making products in the middle of WWIII and in the end everyone will lose. People will stop creating and this beautiful community full of creativity will just be a hollow shell of what it once was. Don’t make me break out singing give peace a chance cuz I just may go to that as option B…just warning you all wink


On DAZ3D in general and their rather rocky year this year:
DAZ3D is a company that we do business with and with that comes expectations as with any company but at least for me, they are something more personal then that. They picked me up when I was at my lowest and helped my family when we needed it most. I know the true beauty of this company and the people that work for it (Though I do understand I was fortunate to have that kind of experience with them where others have not) and while I don’t expect that to make up for their mistakes and I do expect them to fix things, for me, it does change how I look at them. I don’t see just another company I do business with… I see the people behind the company. Hard working, smart, caring people doing their very best to correct their wrongs, make their customers and PA’s happy, and do those things with heart. Those that work behind the scenes do it with more heart and dedication and love then I have ever seen put into a company. Sometimes they are dead on and things go beautifully and smoother and other times (and lately more then not) they kinda remind me of Charlie Brown. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING seems to go right. Despite the best laid plans, intentions, or hard work. While I know some here feel that means they are lazy, not taking things seriously, not paying attention, that they don’t care, that all they care about is your money…I know and can see that isn’t the case. I do understand why people would think those things though. Why wouldn’t they. I know in my own personal experience pretty much every company I have ever dealt with could care less about what I need or want or who I am. I’m a dollar sign and that’s all (please see my last paragraph in my previous post) But DAZ3D is not your average company. They are artists who went into business for the love of their art not business people who decided to help sell art tools in the hopes of making millions. Just as we all are passionate about the tools we use and our artwork, they are equally passionate about their business and the many amazing artists they have the pleasure to be able to work with on a daily basis (artists meaning everyone here…customers, PA’s…everyone). They care about what happens here. For the employees this company is there life. Their love for this company and all their customers is so infectious that even though I work only part-time for them, it has become a very big part of my life (and would continue to be even if I didn’t work for them). To cut this rather long winded paragraph short, I’ll just say what I should have to begin with…I <3 this company and everyone that works for and with it and feel blessed to be here with them in the thick of things everyday. It’s not often someone can say that and not something I have ever said of another company.


While most of you wouldn’t know me from Adam if you passed me on the street, I do hope that at the very least what you get (if you read all that..long winded creature that I am LOL) is just how much I LOVE and RESPECT this company and I hope even without knowing me that the sincerity of that shines through. Why I just rambled all that though, IDK maybe because right now I thought it important for people to kinda see them through my eyes for a moment. I think who they are has been lost to the sum of their recent problems and just like me when I make mistakes, they are far more then that. Or at least to me. smile

 

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Posted: 10 June 2012 11:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
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DAZ_ann0314 - 10 June 2012 10:52 PM
SassyWench - 10 June 2012 09:20 PM

I’ve been here long enough to feel like Daz and lots of you all are like family, and family sometimes makes you crazy but in the end it’s still family. :)

I feel the same way. This is so much my home and family away from home and my solace from the chaos kinda. I’ve spent a blessed 8 years here surrounded by the most amazing people I’ve never gotten to meet but know better then my next door neighbors LOL


My feelings on the whole Poser/DS thing:
I do know when people say “nothing is being released” it isn’t meant personally. And I daily remind myself of that and I also agree saying “but that isn’t true” would be calling someone’s perception or feelings wrong or a lie which is something I don’t ever want to do as saying someone is wrong for their personal feelings is a complete injustice to that person. Life kicks us all in the gut enough without doing it to each other here. I did want to share how it feels for me though as I felt it was worth saying but it wasn’t directed at anyone specifically…more just the topic generally. And I hope no one felt it was directed “at them”. I just wanted to explain how I was feeling as I rarely do these days because I am a DAZ employee as well as a PA and I don’t want what I say as a PA to reflect badly on DAZ3D because I am also an employee. Those that are on my own sites’ forums know it got to a point where I thought about just walking away from being a PA. Not because anyone did anything wrong but just because the amount of pressure from all this was almost too overwhelming to deal with.


Between the users of these two apps, sometimes it does feel like being stuck in the middle of a war zone with people on all sides pulling at you to pick a side. ( I do understand why it’s like this though…creative people after all are very passionate people) Well I am stating here and now, I love Poser. BUT I also love DAZ3D so by extension I love their baby DAZ Studio. I respect those that choose it over Poser just as I hope they respect my choice as well. Watching these threads where people fight over the apps and almost seemingly try to force each other to choose theirs has just GOT…TO…STOP. If someone wants to see more Poser items, they have that right. If someone wants to see more DS items…they too have that right. Just stop, stop, stop fighting each other on who has more rights…which app is the best…which company is to “blame” All that is doing is putting those making products in the middle of WWIII and in the end everyone will lose. People will stop creating and this beautiful community full of creativity will just be a hollow shell of what it once was. Don’t make me break out singing give peace a chance cuz I just may go to that as option B…just warning you all ;)


On DAZ3D in general and their rather rocky year this year:
DAZ3D is a company that we do business with and with that comes expectations as with any company but at least for me, they are something more personal then that. They picked me up when I was at my lowest and helped my family when we needed it most. I know the true beauty of this company and the people that work for it (Though I do understand I was fortunate to have that kind of experience with them where others have not) and while I don’t expect that to make up for their mistakes and I do expect them to fix things, for me, it does change how I look at them. I don’t see just another company I do business with… I see the people behind the company. Hard working, smart, caring people doing their very best to correct their wrongs, make their customers and PA’s happy, and do those things with heart. Those that work behind the scenes do it with more heart and dedication and love then I have ever seen put into a company. Sometimes they are dead on and things go beautifully and smoother and other times (and lately more then not) they kinda remind me of Charlie Brown. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING seems to go right. Despite the best laid plans, intentions, or hard work. While I know some here feel that means they are lazy, not taking things seriously, not paying attention, that they don’t care, that all they care about is your money…I know and can see that isn’t the case. I do understand why people would think those things though. Why wouldn’t they. I know in my own personal experience pretty much every company I have ever dealt with could care less about what I need or want or who I am. I’m a dollar sign and that’s all (please see my last paragraph in my previous post) But DAZ3D is not your average company. They are artists who went into business for the love of their art not business people who decided to help sell art tools in the hopes of making millions. Just as we all are passionate about the tools we use and our artwork, they are equally passionate about their business and the many amazing artists they have the pleasure to be able to work with on a daily basis (artists meaning everyone here…customers, PA’s…everyone). They care about what happens here. For the employees this company is there life. Their love for this company and all their customers is so infectious that even though I work only part-time for them, it has become a very big part of my life (and would continue to be even if I didn’t work for them). To cut this rather long winded paragraph short, I’ll just say what I should have to begin with…I <3 this company and everyone that works for and with it and feel blessed to be here with them in the thick of things everyday. It’s not often someone can say that and not something I have ever said of another company.


While most of you wouldn’t know me from Adam if you passed me on the street, I do hope that at the very least what you get (if you read all that..long winded creature that I am LOL) is just how much I LOVE and RESPECT this company and I hope even without knowing me that the sincerity of that shines through. Why I just rambled all that though, IDK maybe because right now I thought it important for people to kinda see them through my eyes for a moment. I think who they are has been lost to the sum of their recent problems and just like me when I make mistakes, they are far more then that. Or at least to me. :)

 


The problem is I could care less how friendly the employees of DAZ are, what I care about is how competent they are.


I don’t love DAZ.  I don’t have (and don’t want) a personal, relationship with DAZ.  I want a business relationship with them, just like I have with any other company I do business with.


I’ll start treating companies as people when the state of Texas starts executing them.


From where I stand, they are depending on this kind of attitude to avoid being held accountable for their actions (or lack thereof).

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Posted: 10 June 2012 11:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
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...Ann, Surreality, Lord Hard Driven, excellent posts.


I may be critical of Daz’s handling of situations like the way they rush a new version of their applications out as well as the current site migration fiasco but it’s not because I am mad at them as it is more that I am afraid moves such as these could quite possibly kill the company. 


Daz it why I am in this in the first place.


I have come to realise app wars are futile.  You use what best suits your workflow at the time and for the specific purpose.  This is why I have Daz Studio, Carrara, Bryce, and Poser all on my system. I love how intuitive the Studio UI is and how simple it is to set up lighting.  I like the way Poser handles textures and dynamics,  I like the way Carrara and Bryce work with terrain generation.  The only shortcoming is modelling as Hexagon in it’s current version is too unstable (which is why I am learning Blender).

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Posted: 10 June 2012 11:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
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ssgbryan - 10 June 2012 10:24 PM

I will believe DAZ is serious about righting the ship when someone is shown the door for their screw-ups.  That isn’t harsh - it is a simple reality - decision have consequences.  This a business and DAZ needs to start acting like a business instead of an emo teenager.

Well since I was speaking for me and not DAZ3D that would make me the emo teenager and well my last post was even worse so I wouldn’t read that.


On the “people should be fired” how do we know that hasn’t happened? (Speaking generally)


If a company lets someone go for mistakes, said company would/or at least should never put in big neon letters “hey we fired this person for their mistakes” A company takes responsibility for all actions of it’s employees, right or wrong and when wrong they take the responsibility to resolve whatever may have been done wrong (or try their best to). They wouldn’t throw an employee under the bus to prove or show they were being proactive and asking for such a thing is like asking to put the offender on fire in front of town square so everyone can enjoy the burning. And in seeing the person burn, does it fix the problem? Does it resolve anything at all other then getting to watch that person be shamed in front of everyone? Sure, temporarily, it could make people feel more safe until tomorrow when things don’t change and they need to see the next person set aflame to believe there is action taking place.


It seems to me the better expectation is not to want to see that but rather to see things being fixed and resolved and to see action taking place. Sadly, online you can’t see people frantically working to fix something…much like you can’t when you call into a company. You can’t see them working through their weekends and up all hours of the night. All you can see is the end results of that work once it is done. And sadly waiting for results can seem endless. Especially when you’re the one waiting. I get that it’s frustrating and it does feel like maybe no one is doing anything. And I get that if I said people are, it wouldn’t be enough. As they say, seeing is believing. The most anyone can do is make a choice whether they have enough belief to want to wait and see. If not, that is a failing DAZ3D needs to correct but only time and action can correct that. Nothing else. My words were not about excuses for DAZ3D, they were my view of them. I don’t expect it to make them less accountable for their faults or make people feel “bad” for them. I do expect people to see them for the human beings they are though. Something sorely lacking online quite often. We forget that behind the screen is real people…not robots, or magicians who can wave a wand and fix things. Just people. Honestly, I can’t say anything that would change anyone’s mind about how they feel about DAZ3D anymore then I can make someone love Poser or love DAZ Studio. Each person has to make up their own mind based on their experiences with this company. Your experience is that they have let you down, and for that I feel terrible and will gladly relay that feeling (and do often when people post that they feel that way). As for my own experience, they have at times let me down but they have also done far more good and right then any other company I have ever dealt with and because of that I don’t know that I could or would ever stop believing in them. All I can do is hope they can prove to you that you are important to them and that they are serious about righting things that are wrong and hopefully over time (which changes take) they will.

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Posted: 11 June 2012 12:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
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DAZ_ann0314 - 10 June 2012 11:31 PM

On the “people should be fired” how do we know that hasn’t happened? (Speaking generally)


If a company lets someone go for mistakes, said company would/or at least should never put in big neon letters “hey we fired this person for their mistakes” A company takes responsibility for all actions of it’s employees, right or wrong and when wrong they take the responsibility to resolve whatever may have been done wrong (or try their best to). They wouldn’t throw an employee under the bus to prove or show they were being proactive and asking for such a thing is like asking to put the offender on fire in front of town square so everyone can enjoy the burning.

...unfortunately where I work that exact thing is done,within house.  I have seen employees “dressed down” by management in front of the rest of the staff (and even been the subject of such treatment myself) on numerous occasions.  Hopefully Daz is above this sort of thing as it is very unprofessional behaviour.

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Posted: 11 June 2012 12:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
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Kyoto Kid - 11 June 2012 12:30 AM

...unfortunately where I work that exact thing is done,within house.  I have seen employees “dressed down” by management in front of the rest of the staff (and even been the subject of such treatment myself) on numerous occasions.  Hopefully Daz is above this sort of thing as it is very unprofessional behaviour.

I’ve worked for companies like that before as well :( I’ve even worked for companies that will throw a “worker bee” under the bus as a sacrifice to appease the masses for something they were told to do by upper management to cover there own tracks and save their own toosh…I work here now because they definitely NOT one of those companies smile It’s also why those of us that work for them have such a dedication to them. Doing what you mentioned only demoralized that person and then demolishes the moral of the staff left behind and once that happens you won’t get the best out of your employees. Fear doesn’t make better employees. JMHO. Respect and treating them with integrity does..that’s what gets you the 110% even when the chips are down and your employees are at their breaking points.

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Posted: 11 June 2012 12:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
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Its interesting to get such insight from PA vendors and those that work for the store. My point of view is from a customer… I have heard people say Daz is the Store poser built… but I would say Daz is the Store Victoria built… it is the success of Victoria and somewhat of Michael that brought the customers to Daz. So its not that we as customers are against Genesis… I have Daz Studio 4 Pro ... I actually paid for it. The big disappointment is that the new versions of our beloved Victoria and Michael no longer work in Poser. Victoria 4 even with the weight mapping from other sources is still needing an upgrade… and Daz should be the store to do it… new base figures that work in Poser and keep supporting Genesis for your Daz customers.

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Posted: 11 June 2012 01:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]
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MrPoser - 11 June 2012 12:59 AM

Its interesting to get such insight from PA vendors and those that work for the store. My point of view is from a customer… I have heard people say Daz is the Store poser built… but I would say Daz is the Store Victoria built… it is the success of Victoria and somewhat of Michael that brought the customers to Daz. So its not that we as customers are against Genesis… I have Daz Studio 4 Pro ... I actually paid for it. The big disappointment is that the new versions of our beloved Victoria and Michael no longer work in Poser. Victoria 4 even with the weight mapping from other sources is still needing an upgrade… and Daz should be the store to do it… new base figures that work in Poser and keep supporting Genesis for your Daz customers.

I totally agree on all of the above. I would love to see Genesis in Poser, but if I can’t I really hope I see V5 there and M5 etc or at the very least a DAZ3D release of V4 WM with all the new Poser dressing. Cant say whether that will or wont happen but I know I’ve expressed that wish to them often though doing it would have to be done in a way that it doesnt further split the PAs in two (maybe some sort of scripting in Poser that helps so their work can carry across to everything. IDK if or how that could be done but THAT would thrill me LOL)

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