Temple Complex WIP - Creating content questions

Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
edited December 1969 in Bryce Discussion

So LHD got me thinking, should I set up my latest model in order to share it and and submit it to Daz as a content provider.

As I seem to have a bit of spare time at the moment, I decided the challenge may be worth facing and I've spent the last 24 hours deconstructing the model and giving all the pieces and groups unique names... Organising all the components is time consuming.

My plan is to create at least two versions of the model, one plainish (the pale blue & silver) and one with more complex stone and gold materials. All the mats will be Bryce procedurals and I'm thinking about organising the models into groups (or families but I've heard that families don't work too well on the Mac version) so that editing material areas (Stone parts, metal parts, paving parts etc.) is easy for further user customisation.

Supplied as both .obp files and as scene files. The scene files would have camera view memory dots for easy access to dynamic views and I was also wondering if I could save sky memory dots (daytime, night time and sun set for instance) to give easier access to different moods/atmospheres. While testing this I found that the sky memory dots don't save the soft shadows option!

I'm thinking when it's complete submit it to Daz for distribution as a freebie.

What problems am I going to come across?
Several people here have been through this process there are bound to be things I'm not aware of that could potentially save me a lot of time if the solutions can be built into the work flow instead of completing the model and then having to deconstruct it again because of some issue I hadn't thought of.

For instance; Should I convert the Booleans to Meshes?
If it's accepted and released as a freebie, would I get any indication of how many people had downloaded it? (this info would help to decide if it was worth exploring building more models but to sell).

Any help would be appreciated thanks.

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Comments

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited February 2013

    So LHD got me thinking, should I set up my latest model in order to share it and and submit it to Daz as a content provider.

    As I seem to have a bit of spare time at the moment, I decided the challenge may be worth facing and I've spent the last 24 hours deconstructing the model and giving all the pieces and groups unique names... Organising all the components is time consuming.

    My plan is to create at least two versions of the model, one plainish (the pale blue & silver) and one with more complex stone and gold materials. All the mats will be Bryce procedurals and I'm thinking about organising the models into groups (or families but I've heard that families don't work too well on the Mac version) so that editing material areas (Stone parts, metal parts, paving parts etc.) is easy for further user customisation.

    Supplied as both .obp files and as scene files. The scene files would have camera view memory dots for easy access to dynamic views and I was also wondering if I could save sky memory dots (daytime, night time and sun set for instance) to give easier access to different moods/atmospheres. While testing this I found that the sky memory dots don't save the soft shadows option!

    I'm thinking when it's complete submit it to Daz for distribution as a freebie.

    What problems am I going to come across?
    Several people here have been through this process there are bound to be things I'm not aware of that could potentially save me a lot of time if the solutions can be built into the work flow instead of completing the model and then having to deconstruct it again because of some issue I hadn't thought of.

    For instance; Should I convert the Booleans to Meshes?
    If it's accepted and released as a freebie, would I get any indication of how many people had downloaded it? (this info would help to decide if it was worth exploring building more models but to sell).

    Any help would be appreciated thanks.

    I got someone thinking? I don't know that I've ever been accused of that before? :) I'm not really qualified to answer the questions you've posed here but I wanted to make some observations. Not necessarily now but if you do get into content creation as a vendor consider trying to make your content more versatile by making it available to multiple platforms (ie Poser, Studio, Carrara) as that will open it up as an item of interest to more potential customers. If you do submit it to Daz and it becomes a freebie I'd be reluctant to judge the number of people picking up that freebie as to whether or not you should become a vendor. I say that because I know people including myself that will pick up free content simply because it's free. Also most of the free content Daz releases is for Studio or Poser and so if they released this as free content for Bryce, I'm thinking a whole bunch of Bryce people will jump on it simply because we don't get too many freebies tossed our way. Finally I think it's a safe bet all the forum regulars would pick it up simply to be supportive of you. Point being that the number of people downloading it might be a false indicator of whether you might do well as a vendor or not.

    The only other thing I would comment on is I like where your head is at as far as thinking of making things more easy for the consumer, there seems to be too little of that in the stuff previously made for Bryce and so it's refreshing to see a potentially emerging vendor start off thinking that way. Anyway good luck with this I hope it goes well for you as I can see you being an excellent vendor one day.

    Post edited by LordHardDriven on
  • TrishTrish Posts: 2,619
    edited December 1969

    I can't help with the tech stuff David or horo would know that but I would like to say that it is a beautiful model and has a lot of possibilities!!

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,741
    edited December 1969

    Yes you would need to turn your model into a mesh. If you would like to sell it to DAZ as a freebie then you will need to make it usable in at least DS and Poser. If you wanted to broker it then you could just make it a strictly Bryce pack. If you sell it to DAZ as a freebie then you won't be able to see the number of downloads. You can only see sales numbers of your brokered packs. Quite honestly looking at the WIPS I'd recommend submitting it as a brokered artist it looks of high quality. You just need to submit WIPS and a fully detailed description of what it is and what it does and what it comes with. You can submit the info to pa @ daz3d.com (remove the spaces). It does take a while to get your foot in the door but once you do its well worth it. If you would like any more detail or have any other questions please feel free to PM me.

  • mermaid010mermaid010 Posts: 1,171
    edited February 2013

    Dave, I love this model and I will be the first to grab it if its a freebie :-)

    Post edited by mermaid010 on
  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    Yes you would need to turn your model into a mesh. If you would like to sell it to DAZ as a freebie then you will need to make it usable in at least DS and Poser. If you wanted to broker it then you could just make it a strictly Bryce pack.
    My intention was to make it just for Bryce as a way of giving something back to the Bryce community.
    That's why I was thinking of supplying Bryce scene files as well as .obp files. To make it extremely user friendly for Brycers and only use Bryce procedural materials so there would be no issues with missing texture files etc.
    Only about a quarter of the model is made using booleans.
    The rest is just primitives which can't be converted to mesh within Bryce unless I try and make unnecessary booleans just to convert.

    Is there an EULA issue with this because technically it would be redistributing Bryce geometry if I didn't make them into meshes.
    Sorry, I've no idea how this works, but I'd rather preempt any possible issues now to make life easier later.

    Frank0314 said:
    If you sell it to DAZ as a freebie then you won't be able to see the number of downloads. You can only see sales numbers of your brokered packs.

    I wasn't thinking of selling it to Daz, I was thinking of giving it to them so they could give it away. :)
    But what's the distinction between selling (or giving) it to Daz and brokering it?
    I was thinking this would only be available through Daz (not shared on any other sites such as ShareCG etc.)

    Quite honestly looking at the WIPS I'd recommend submitting it as a brokered artist it looks of high quality. You just need to submit WIPS and a fully detailed description of what it is and what it does and what it comes with. You can submit the info to pa @ daz3d.com (remove the spaces). It does take a while to get your foot in the door but once you do its well worth it. If you would like any more detail or have any other questions please feel free to PM me.


    Well I'm going to continue to work on it and see if I can whip it into a more organised wireframe and as soon as I've got it something like, I'll write something up and send it on.

    Thanks Frank, much appreciated.

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    I got someone thinking? I don't know that I've ever been accused of that before? :) I'm not really qualified to answer the questions you've posed here but I wanted to make some observations. Not necessarily now but if you do get into content creation as a vendor consider trying to make your content more versatile by making it available to multiple platforms (ie Poser, Studio, Carrara) as that will open it up as an item of interest to more potential customers.
    That's something to consider for the future yes, but this is just something to do while I'm quiet here (having nothing to do makes me go [even more] insane).

    If you do submit it to Daz and it becomes a freebie I'd be reluctant to judge the number of people picking up that freebie as to whether or not you should become a vendor. I say that because I know people including myself that will pick up free content simply because it's free. Also most of the free content Daz releases is for Studio or Poser and so if they released this as free content for Bryce, I'm thinking a whole bunch of Bryce people will jump on it simply because we don't get too many freebies tossed our way. Finally I think it's a safe bet all the forum regulars would pick it up simply to be supportive of you. Point being that the number of people downloading it might be a false indicator of whether you might do well as a vendor or not.

    Yes indeed.
    But I wasn't thinking that high download numbers would sway me to become a regular content provider, I was thinking that if as a freebie it only achieved a few dozen downloads, it would certainly sway me into not giving up my day job :-)

    The only other thing I would comment on is I like where your head is at as far as thinking of making things more easy for the consumer, there seems to be too little of that in the stuff previously made for Bryce and so it's refreshing to see a potentially emerging vendor start off thinking that way. Anyway good luck with this I hope it goes well for you as I can see you being an excellent vendor one day.


    Well my own experiences of importing models into Bryce and then spending hours re-naming all the components and re-mapping all the materials has lead me to greater understanding of what I would like to see, hopefully it will help other people too to have them easy to edit.

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for your kind words and support Bullit and Mermaid. :)

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,849
    edited February 2013

    Dave, have just had a chat with someone who would know and his answer was

    No, I'm prtty sure that modelling using primitive and booleans is fine
    : What wouldn't be would be using some of the sample content as a starting point

    AS to distributing it as a freebie. If I can threaten, cajole and otherwise bully my son to add the Bryce page he keeps promising to add to our website (he is webmaster) then We could possibly host it for you. At the moment my one and only survivng Bryce freebie is on Share CG.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Pam

    No sample content included... though I have used Rashad's extended primitives (triangular column) for the roof sections but If that was an issue, I could easily make the same shape out of booleans.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,849
    edited December 1969

    I can't see Rashad complaining. Some of my booleaned models contained alternate prims from other people, and they were quite happy with me using them.

    Trouble is now the models got lost between computer builds and dead external back up hard drive.

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    I got someone thinking? I don't know that I've ever been accused of that before? :) I'm not really qualified to answer the questions you've posed here but I wanted to make some observations. Not necessarily now but if you do get into content creation as a vendor consider trying to make your content more versatile by making it available to multiple platforms (ie Poser, Studio, Carrara) as that will open it up as an item of interest to more potential customers.
    That's something to consider for the future yes, but this is just something to do while I'm quiet here (having nothing to do makes me go [even more] insane).

    If you do submit it to Daz and it becomes a freebie I'd be reluctant to judge the number of people picking up that freebie as to whether or not you should become a vendor. I say that because I know people including myself that will pick up free content simply because it's free. Also most of the free content Daz releases is for Studio or Poser and so if they released this as free content for Bryce, I'm thinking a whole bunch of Bryce people will jump on it simply because we don't get too many freebies tossed our way. Finally I think it's a safe bet all the forum regulars would pick it up simply to be supportive of you. Point being that the number of people downloading it might be a false indicator of whether you might do well as a vendor or not.

    Yes indeed.
    But I wasn't thinking that high download numbers would sway me to become a regular content provider, I was thinking that if as a freebie it only achieved a few dozen downloads, it would certainly sway me into not giving up my day job :-)

    The only other thing I would comment on is I like where your head is at as far as thinking of making things more easy for the consumer, there seems to be too little of that in the stuff previously made for Bryce and so it's refreshing to see a potentially emerging vendor start off thinking that way. Anyway good luck with this I hope it goes well for you as I can see you being an excellent vendor one day.


    Well my own experiences of importing models into Bryce and then spending hours re-naming all the components and re-mapping all the materials has lead me to greater understanding of what I would like to see, hopefully it will help other people too to have them easy to edit.

    Well even if the freebie was popular and you went ahead and decided to give being a vendor a go I would still encourage you not to give up your day job. Contrary to popular belief being a vendor isn't always as lucrative as many think it is. From what I've heard expressed over the years many vendors still work regular jobs and vending 3D products they see as a means of financing their 3D habit. I've heard it is possible to make a relatively decent income but only if you can crank out a fairly large number of products per year and/or you reach the level of popularity of someone like Stonemason as an example. If I were you I'd be waiting to see not only how well I do with a given itme but also how quickly on average I could produce something (after having developed a dozen or so items) and how long the whole process is from point of conception to point of first sale. I'd also be wanting a sense of what the standards are for getting things submitted are. In other words will Daz accept anything and everything I submit as long as it meets content guidelines or will they be rejecting things because they don't feel they'll do well.

    You didn't address this to me but I wanted to touch base on two things in connection to your exchange with Frank. First I'm guessing here but I bet the idea of selling something to Daz as a freebie is more or less just a formality to establish clearly who has the rights of ownership. I would imagine as such the sale price would be more or less just a token amount.

    Also while I totally understand and in no small way admire your desire to give back to the Bryce community, I'd say try not to shy away from making things usable for Poser and Studio. If the goal is to give back to the Bryce community I think in the long run anything that draws someone over from the Poser/Studio realm to the Bryce realm would be giving back much more then a single freebie. Besides if you stayed Bryce only I'm fairly certain you'd never be able to give up your day job. Just ask David. :)

    Anyway as I said before good luck with your endeavors no matter where it ends up going.

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    LHD: The irony here being that over the years, a large part of my day job has been producing models in Bryce for the packaging I design. :-)

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,741
    edited December 1969

    You didn't address this to me but I wanted to touch base on two things in connection to your exchange with Frank. First I'm guessing here but I bet the idea of selling something to Daz as a freebie is more or less just a formality to establish clearly who has the rights of ownership. I would imagine as such the sale price would be more or less just a token amount.

    That is correct. All DAZ freebies are payed for. DAZ won't except a pack to just give away because the can't support it. The best bet if you don't want to sell to or at DAZ would be to package as a freebie and post it in Freepozitory forum.

    I do this for a living because I'm disabled and can't work outside the house due to an enormous amount of restrictions. It is very tough to get by until you develop a name for yourself. Frequency of releases is the only way to do it. I make at minimum 3 packs a month (freebies) while working on the next brokered product. It's taken us several years, but we are now making more money a year than we did when we worked full time jobs outside the house.

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited February 2013

    Thanks for your input Frank. :)

    So this weekend, I've been doing more work on the model.
    It's meant having to strip it all down and re-build it from the ground up to tidy it all up and name all the components correctly.
    I'm also doing what I mentioned earlier in the thread and am trying to make it as easy as possible to edit by not only grouping objects, but also to put groups into families so that for instance all the window frames can be selected at once by using the families selection for 'window frames' or all the lights can be turned on and off by choosing the 'lights' family.

    Yes, now that the wireframe is neater, I've been able to insert a single light into each section of the central temple complex (hopefully this will tie in nicely with my other idea to supply several scene files with saved skies for night time, day time and sun set etc.)

    I'm also adding more detail as I go so that the model can be used for close up work (though it certainly won't be highly detailed, it will look like more than some stacked boxes).

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  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    I've now added the wall of the inner terrace and just for a bit of variety (it gets really boring selecting and renaming hundreds of primitives), I've been testing the material zones I'm setting up for the model.
    So here we have the default materials and then taking only a few minutes selecting each family and altering the materials for that family, the model can be made to look completely different.

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  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    Further playing with what I've put together so far.
    This time just seeing how the different material zone choices plus my proposition to save the model with 6 camera memory dot views and 4 sky memory dots will make the model very versatile and moods can be changed within very little amount of work.

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  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 2,851
    edited December 1969

    Good idea, the different moods work well, for the night scene you might consider doing some up-lighting - like you see on monuments and churches?

  • GussNemoGussNemo Posts: 1,855
    edited December 1969

    Love the different times of day look you've created Dave. I've a feeling many others will too. Sooo, is there a list of whose first in line for downloading?

  • JamahoneyJamahoney Posts: 882
    edited December 1969

    Super results, Savage...a sign of an artist/modeller in control of his skill. I like the Evening one best, and its roof, too, but, I don't kinow what it is, the vertically staggered brickwork on the corners is a distraction to my eye as they don't fit in with the exotic overall feel to the building, which has a wonderful 'Arabian Nights' ambience to it. But, that's just me, and each to his/her own, of course. Now, all we need is a story from Scheherazade to add to your model :)

    Jay

  • BjornLoBjornLo Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Just a few modeling tips.
    I too prefer Bryce and I love Bryce style modeling. However even if your model is for us only within Bryce it is well worth the time to model the object in another program. The reason is memory useage. A Bryce object is typically 10-1000 times more ploygon + object intensive then a mesh made in another program.
    Converting Byrce objects to meshes is not stable and can lead to some very strange results.
    Amongs these include:
    reveresed normals (a polygon only visible from the "wrong" side.
    A fly away point. Where the location of one of the points will be far away from where it was prior to conversion.
    Missing polygons. Some polygons are just lost in the conversion. Not a reversed normal, simply not there.
    Finally there is the quality of the resulting mesh. Suffice it to say it is "not good". The poly/point count will remain MUCH larger then the same object created using the same techniques in another modeler.
    Given that you modeled this in Bryce it might be interesting to know that the modeler which allows the closest to Bryce style modeling is Cinema 4d. It is the modeler most friendly to the use of boolean style modeling. You can use the same type of "stretch/compress" techniques too.
    The advantages of a cleaner mesh are several. It is faster and easier for people to work with. It can still be saved as an OBP. With good selection of regions and where the individual mesh components are you can still use Bryce procedurals. Plus it opens up the mesh for advanced texturing mapping / UV Mapping either via the modeling tool or one of the free programs. And the biggie would be the salability of your creation. A texture mapped OBJ or 3ds mesh can be used in lots of programs meaning many more potential customers.

    Finally for releaseing/shareing, have you considered sharecg.com?
    I have shared a few objects on there and can recommend it. You get rather to see how many click on it, how many download it, etc... You can also post links to your shared object in other locations. Including renderosity and the freebie forums here.

  • mermaid010mermaid010 Posts: 1,171
    edited December 1969

    Wow Dave, love all the different moods. Looking forward to downloading it, if its a freebie. lol

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    Finally got back to doing some more work on this.
    Have spent some time today rebuilding the outer wall and corner towers and renaming all the components.

    Just a few finishing touches to do then I have to put the whole thing together and double check the material families are all set correctly.

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  • GussNemoGussNemo Posts: 1,855
    edited December 1969

    @Dave: That base alone looks great.

  • TrishTrish Posts: 2,619
    edited December 1969

    Savage64; They had free sights on yahoo and gmail for a web page, I had one at one time...you might check that out...it was pretty cool they had alot of options for designing the pages....Trish

  • LordHardDrivenLordHardDriven Posts: 917
    edited December 1969

    I know you're doing this in spare time but you are putting a lot of effort into it and it's looking really good I think I'm going to have to agree with Frank on this and say you should reconsider selling it vs giving it away.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    This looks amazing! Wish you could export it for DS! Beautiful work!!!

  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    @LHD: If I was money minded I'd be working all the time and then I wouldn't have time to make free stuff. :-)

    @ Wancow: Thanks. It'll need testing properly and I don't use DS or the bridge, but there may well be the option to load it into Bryce then send it to DS over the bridge. Materials will most likely need tweaking afterwards because I'll be using Bryce procedurals and as far as I know DS doesn't like those much.

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Does Bryce have a way to export to OBJ?

  • David BrinnenDavid Brinnen Posts: 2,851
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    Does Bryce have a way to export to OBJ?

    Yes, File > Export Object - if it is a mesh or a terrain.

    There are options in the drop down.

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  • Dave SavageDave Savage Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    As David says "yes".
    The problem being that this model is 99.9% Bryce primitives and not mesh objects so it won't export directly without a fair amount of work to convert all the primitives to meshes.
    Having said that, when it's complete. I'll be encouraging people to do whatever they want with it as long as they pass the result on free, so if anyone fancies converting it, that'll be cool.

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