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Posted: 11 February 2013 05:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Hi Kharma,

I think the biggies eye opener to me were three things that experienced users take for granted- and I have some questions too-
(DO NOT LAUGH FOLKS)

1. When you buy a character, remember morphing, and that features can be changed. I’m doing Genesis.
Question- does this ability to morph faces and bodies apply to the earlier versions?  Such as V4, M4 (known as Generation 4 if I’m correct?)

So when you see a character offered, think more broadly of the possibilities. I felt Caitlyn had a great starting point. Obviously, I greatly changed the lips and nose. Well, I changed everything actually. But what a great base face to work from. Back in September when I started buying, I was focused on what the product looked like, and didnt really consider how it could be morphed and changed. (Yes, I’ll admit it.)

2. Scott’s got a great hair tutorial (I am reading it now) and it explains the different types of hair, what the extensions tell you, and more. I’m still reading it. It is helping me to understand when I buy hair what I can expect. Some morphs, some are painted, etc. (Although I am done buying hair, it helps to know what I have.)  So strongly recommend that tutorial. Thanks Scott!

3. You aren’t limited to the hair colors I don’t think- here’s a question I was going to ask- can’t you use diffuse any of the hair products? Or is it just certain ones?  And how exactly does Specular Color impact the diffuse color? I’m not seeing much change. I though Specular was the glow, right?

Am doing some screenshots to show all of you the difference that those iterations make for each step. It’s interesting and I dont mind doing it for you.  (Particularly you, Kharma smile  I won’t be able to help you very often, lol. You’re probably going to be one of MY go-to artists!) Back in about 10 minutes.

Cathie

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Posted: 11 February 2013 05:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Yes, Gen 4 figures have their own set of morphs to change their shapes and features, just as Genesis does. All figures do, even dating back to the Gen 1 figures. To use Gen 4 morphs on Genesis, though, you’d need Genesis Generation X and V4 M4 Shapes for Genesis (if you don’t already have them).

As for changing hair color through the use of the Diffuse slider, yes, you can do so. I’ve done it on a number of occasions, though it works better when you start with lighter hair colors (i.e blonde, or white), though it can be used to tweak darker colors to a degree.

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Posted: 11 February 2013 06:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Hi Tramp Graphics, good to see you’re back smile
So, how does the Specular Color work? Is it like the “glow?”  I just put a blue Diffuse in my figure’s hair, with a lighter blue Specular.

Here’s the iterations so you folks can see what happens. The hair shifted, in this case, the strands became more defined as the iterations went up because they were chunked off / awful.  It shows the blue on top of the black, as mentioned. Funky!  The last is a close up, closer than my camera will probably ever go, but I want it to be fairly free of smudgies.

CLICK ON THEM TO SEE THE CLOSEUPS.

 

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Posted: 11 February 2013 06:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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This should answer your question regarding Specularity

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Posted: 11 February 2013 06:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Okay, next question. Under Smoothing Type (Remember, select your hair at the top, by the Scene tab, as shown in my image. Go to Parameters, select what shown. (Get into Mesh Smoothing.)

My two options were Base Shape Mapping, and Generic. When do you use Generic? (I assume I am NOT supposed to be using it now, lol. That would be an OOPSIE, wouldn’t it!)
Cathie

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Posted: 11 February 2013 06:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Tramp Graphics - 11 February 2013 06:25 PM

This should answer your question regarding Specularity


Thanks- right after I posted that, I went back to my other thread where I was having trouble making an outfit lose the glossy. It dawned on me I used the Specularity, so I was probably thinking of ambient lighting or something else.  Reading what you linked though- very helpful.

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Posted: 11 February 2013 07:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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kitakoredaz - 11 February 2013 05:54 AM

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/14436/

Hi,, smile  smoothing modifier sometimes effect bad about hair. (but not so hard,, I think,,)

but auto-follow morhp which generated to the hair, cahnge hair shape much too.
if your part of hair are bury in forhead,,
I think it is because auto-follow eye lush morph effect.

if your character use eye lush layer morph, it move back part of eye lush into head and invisible.
so you may check auto generated morph about hair.

Richard posted in that thread: “That’s probably because the hair is picking up on the morphs used to shape the head - if that is the issue, go to the Parametrs pane and right-click on its tab, then select Show Hidden Properties; click the Used group to limit the number of morphs showing and you should see the morphs generated by DS in grey; try zeroing those until you find the one that is causing the hair problem (ctrl-z to restore any that are needed to get the hair to fit).”

So I did that (yes, I can fall back on the Smoothing but it was hinted that this might be another route)  Here’s the image (for those following along) of what Richard suggested. Nothing moved except the tuft of hair at the base of the neck. WHY? How do I mess with just the front tufts?  (And yes, I did test them one at a time too, leaving the others at their settings.)

And sorry, I’m not following what an eye lush layer morph is from the post above, or the auto generated morph?

Cathie

 

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Posted: 11 February 2013 07:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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With all of this PIB (pain in the booty)  hair issues, would it be better to put the hair on the figure FIRST before doing the morphs? Or would the artist still have these exact same issues? Same question would go for clothing, because I can already see the shirt isn’t working right at the bottom either. (Will get to that later.)

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Posted: 11 February 2013 08:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Novica - 11 February 2013 07:47 PM

With all of this PIB (pain in the booty)  hair issues, would it be better to put the hair on the figure FIRST before doing the morphs? Or would the artist still have these exact same issues? Same question would go for clothing, because I can already see the shirt isn’t working right at the bottom either. (Will get to that later.)

It really doesn’t matter which order you do it in. Doing the morphs first, before putting on hair and clothes, though, will allow the machine to run faster since it doesn’t take as much RAM to work on a naked figure.

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Posted: 11 February 2013 09:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Novica - 11 February 2013 05:50 PM

Hi Kharma,

I think the biggies eye opener to me were three things that experienced users take for granted- and I have some questions too-
(DO NOT LAUGH FOLKS)

1. When you buy a character, remember morphing, and that features can be changed. I’m doing Genesis.
Question- does this ability to morph faces and bodies apply to the earlier versions?  Such as V4, M4 (known as Generation 4 if I’m correct?)

So when you see a character offered, think more broadly of the possibilities. I felt Caitlyn had a great starting point. Obviously, I greatly changed the lips and nose. Well, I changed everything actually. But what a great base face to work from. Back in September when I started buying, I was focused on what the product looked like, and didnt really consider how it could be morphed and changed. (Yes, I’ll admit it.)

2. Scott’s got a great hair tutorial (I am reading it now) and it explains the different types of hair, what the extensions tell you, and more. I’m still reading it. It is helping me to understand when I buy hair what I can expect. Some morphs, some are painted, etc. (Although I am done buying hair, it helps to know what I have.)  So strongly recommend that tutorial. Thanks Scott!

3. You aren’t limited to the hair colors I don’t think- here’s a question I was going to ask- can’t you use diffuse any of the hair products? Or is it just certain ones?  And how exactly does Specular Color impact the diffuse color? I’m not seeing much change. I though Specular was the glow, right?

Am doing some screenshots to show all of you the difference that those iterations make for each step. It’s interesting and I dont mind doing it for you.  (Particularly you, Kharma smile  I won’t be able to help you very often, lol. You’re probably going to be one of MY go-to artists!) Back in about 10 minutes.

Cathie


Thanks Cathie, it was interesting to see how the different iterations changed the hair.  You are getting a grasp on all this faster than I am smile  thanks so much for sharing all your tips smile

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Posted: 11 February 2013 10:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Novica - 11 February 2013 07:40 PM
kitakoredaz - 11 February 2013 05:54 AM

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/14436/

Hi,, smile  smoothing modifier sometimes effect bad about hair. (but not so hard,, I think,,)

but auto-follow morhp which generated to the hair, cahnge hair shape much too.
if your part of hair are bury in forhead,,
I think it is because auto-follow eye lush morph effect.

if your character use eye lush layer morph, it move back part of eye lush into head and invisible.
so you may check auto generated morph about hair.

Richard posted in that thread: “That’s probably because the hair is picking up on the morphs used to shape the head - if that is the issue, go to the Parametrs pane and right-click on its tab, then select Show Hidden Properties; click the Used group to limit the number of morphs showing and you should see the morphs generated by DS in grey; try zeroing those until you find the one that is causing the hair problem (ctrl-z to restore any that are needed to get the hair to fit).”

So I did that (yes, I can fall back on the Smoothing but it was hinted that this might be another route)  Here’s the image (for those following along) of what Richard suggested. Nothing moved except the tuft of hair at the base of the neck. WHY? How do I mess with just the front tufts?  (And yes, I did test them one at a time too, leaving the others at their settings.)

And sorry, I’m not following what an eye lush layer morph is from the post above, or the auto generated morph?

Cathie

 

Cathie, I’m glad you’re finding my tutorial useful! I think kitakoredaz meant “eyelash morph.” Eyelash morphs are often (but not always) the offenders out of that list, when there’s trouble like this. Auto-generated morphs mean morphs that are generated automatically during the process of conforming the hair to the morphed Genesis figure. Usually this is a good thing…if your character has unusually large brow ridges, for instance, you’ll want the hair to respect them. Sometimes it’s not a good thing and you’ll need to zero them out through Richard’s procedure…like if your character has elf ears, you don’t want the hair twisting and bending around the tips of them. The issue you’re seeing, I would expect, is caused by one of these auto-generated morphs…and if so, zeroing it out should correct this issue.

Now, that having been said, I’m testing this out (I own Pyrit Hair…I don’t have Caitlyn, but I was able to get similar results on Young Teen Justin) and I couldn’t find a single morph that would fix this, either. I had to zero out ALL the autogenerated morphs before the problem with the front locks went away. I then increased the x-scale and z-scale a bit to offset the shrinking that happened as a result of zeroing these morphs (there’s still a tiny bit of pokethrough on the side…probably should have increased x-scale a bit more, or applied a smoothing modifier).

One alternative you could try: instead of using the conforming hair, the Pyrit Hair product also includes an hr2 hair prop which you can parent to Genesis using the procedure detailed in my tutorial (linked earlier in the thread). Find it in the Content Library, in the Hair folder within “Poser Formats.” It’s showing up in my Smart Content too, as long as I don’t have Genesis selected.

Hope this is helpful!

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Posted: 11 February 2013 11:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Novica - 11 February 2013 03:24 PM

Thank you smile 

Another thing (can you tell training was my profession?) to remember, that little box up there changes, depending on what is selected. If you have Scene, it gives you different options than if Parameters is selected.  I know, common sense would tell you that, but not necessarily for noobs.

Will check out the videos and tutorials now.
(In this view, the smoothing iterations and the collision are both on 9)

Thanks for that info, and the great picture. I had no idea that button changed when I had the scene tab selected. Go figure. I knew it changed between content library and parameters, but not the scene. I’ve been wishing for less clicking to apply a smoothing modifier. Perfect timing. smile

Love your character, by the way!

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Posted: 11 February 2013 11:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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sikeus - 11 February 2013 11:08 PM

Thanks for that info, and the great picture. I had no idea that button changed when I had the scene tab selected. Go figure. I knew it changed between content library and parameters, but not the scene. I’ve been wishing for less clicking to apply a smoothing modifier. Perfect timing. smile

Love your character, by the way!

Glad to be of service, lol. (Thank the people who guided me to it in this thread, I was like, “That dropdown wasn’t there a minute ago…OH, that changes when I’m in a different tab!”)

I’m not ignoring everyone, I’ve been working on the hair doing morphs before I try these other options. I want to know exactly what frustrations other people are having/ learn what can go wrong- so I can pay back later and help out like all the wonderful folks helping me. If I know what problems they are having, or what they are doing, it will help me understand. Also, this is helping me remember where all these menus and tabs are, what they do. (Since I keep going and switching the smoothing off, lol. REALLY recommend people do that when playing with the morphs. It eliminates lag if you’re having it. Do a morph, turn on the smoother, check it out, turn off the smoother. Do another morph.)

The Pyrit Hair is NOT what I would recommend for the first hairstyle to try. My goodness, those morphs leave huge gaps over the ears, and if you shift to fix that, then behind the ear is bald. ARRGH. Seriously, I have been doing this for about two hours.  I can easily go in and fix it in Photoshop, but I don’t want to do that.

In the spirit of keeping this information all in one place on the forum, I will post the BEST settings I’ve found for getting the hair close to the ears, to save folks some time.  Then I’ll try the other suggestions so we’ll get a well rounded comparision.  The head was NOT morphed that much, the brow area, the head (at 98%, etc) shouldn’t be causing THIS much of a problem I dont think. But how would I know!

Cathie

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Posted: 11 February 2013 11:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Never got an answer on this- but did try Generic. It was awful

“Okay, next question. Under Smoothing Type (Remember, select your hair at the top, by the Scene tab, as shown in my image. Go to Parameters, select what shown. (Get into Mesh Smoothing.)

My two options were Base Shape Mapping, and Generic. When do you use Generic?

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Posted: 11 February 2013 11:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Hi novica:)

you must need to remove the auto - followd morph effect from your Pyrit hair .

I know when ask something in forum ,many helpful person try to solve the problem
but you need to step by step. after solve one problem then try next.

about your every pic in this topic your hair must be influenced by the generated morph.
so that even though you change setting of smooth modifier or try to move your hair by style morph
,and reduce the influence, it can not be solution.
 
1 remove only hair from the scene .  then “select genesis”,, re load the pinty hair again on to your character

  the hair fit-to genesis. 

7 . then select hair,,  go to parameter tab. use option “show hidden properties” (as you know)

8   then click “currently used”  (if you tweak many parameter ^^;, you can not find which morph are generated,, never
so that just keep the current status untill you find the critical morphs)

9 there may be some morphs are generated to pinty hair.  go to top area in parameter tab, there is serching column
in put “eye”

10 after that,, you need to find which morph effect bad,, by your self ^^;
  because we can not check which morph are generated or not.  without get your caharacter moroph ^^;

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