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The Can or the Bottle
Posted: 09 February 2013 07:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Agent_Unawares - 09 February 2013 07:05 PM
araneldon - 09 February 2013 06:55 PM

Are you talking about the part where it says “EULA supersedes and replaces any license agreement that was or will be presented at the time of content installation” ?

I am indeed. That, along with the fact they’re attempting to force users to agree to it before they’ll allow them access to old purchases [unless that’s changed VERY recently]. One or the other on their own wouldn’t have bothered me.

That part is indeed problematic. It’s not clear whether the new EULA is intended to replace previous agreements, because that’s not exactly what it says as far as I can tell.

I guess DAZ is still selling content packaged in installers which include the old EULA. Perhaps the intent is simply to address that.

Oh powers that be, will you please grant us a few words to dispel the confusion?

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Posted: 09 February 2013 07:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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araneldon - 09 February 2013 07:44 PM
Agent_Unawares - 09 February 2013 07:05 PM
araneldon - 09 February 2013 06:55 PM

Are you talking about the part where it says “EULA supersedes and replaces any license agreement that was or will be presented at the time of content installation” ?

I am indeed. That, along with the fact they’re attempting to force users to agree to it before they’ll allow them access to old purchases [unless that’s changed VERY recently]. One or the other on their own wouldn’t have bothered me.

That part is indeed problematic. It’s not clear whether the new EULA is intended to replace previous agreements, because that’s not exactly what it says as far as I can tell.

That’s what this part says: “This is a legal and binding agreement between you, hereinafter also referred to as “User”, and DAZ Productions, Inc., hereinafter also referred to as “DAZ”. This End User License Agreement (“EULA”) is the agreement that governs User’s use of software, applications, images, figures, models, 3D mesh, geometry, systems, information, documentation, and the like (“Content”) obtained, consumed, or interacted with via User’s online DAZ store account. User’s current and continued purchase, access, download, and/or use of Content, is contingent upon User’s acceptance of this EULA.”

araneldon - 09 February 2013 07:44 PM

I guess DAZ is still selling content packaged in installers which include the old EULA. Perhaps the intent is simply to address that.

Indeed, and I’d have no problem with it at all if they didn’t require retroactive changes to old agreements in order to access things purchased under old agreements. I’d have accepted the EULA long ago and dumped this week’s 3D budget into their accounts already.

araneldon - 09 February 2013 07:44 PM

Oh powers that be, will you please grant us a few words to dispel the confusion?

Good luck with that. XD

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Posted: 09 February 2013 08:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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What makes me really really mad is they still have my account Blocked, I still can’t download my stuff I paid for.

I click on My Downloadable Products

All I get is this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

End User License Agreement
DAZ PRODUCTIONS, INC. LICENSE AGREEMENT
By accepting this EULA or by downloading or using the software you signify that you have read and agree to all the terms of this license agreement.

Preamble
This is a legal and binding agreement between you, hereinafter also referred to as “User”, and DAZ Productions, Inc., hereinafter also referred to as “DAZ”. This End User License Agreement (“EULA”) is the agreement that governs User’s use of software, applications, images, figures, models, 3D mesh, geometry, systems, information, documentation, and the like (“Content”) obtained, consumed, or interacted with via User’s online DAZ store account. User’s current and continued purchase, access, download, and/or use of Content, is contingent upon User’s acceptance of this EULA.

User hereby indicates User’s complete and unconditional acceptance of all the terms and conditions of this EULA. This EULA constitutes the complete agreement between User and DAZ with regard to end-user license of Content except in the case User has a version of the EULA signed by both parties, in which case the signed agreement supersedes. THIS EULA SUPERSEDES AND REPLACES ANY LICENSE AGREEMENT THAT WAS OR WILL BE PRESENTED AT THE TIME OF CONTENT INSTALLATION.

The online DAZ store offers for sale a license to Content owned by DAZ and/or a license to Content owned by 3rd-party published artists (“PA”). In this EULA, “DAZ Content” shall refer to content owned solely by DAZ; “PA Content” shall refer to content owned solely by a 3rd-party published artist; and “Content” shall refer to both DAZ Content and PA Content inclusively.

1.0 General License Agreement.
CONTENT LICENSE. DAZ grants to User and User hereby accepts, subject to the limitations and obligations of this Agreement, a personal, non-exclusive, non-transferable License to use the Content duly obtained by payment of all applicable license fees.
LICENSE FEES. User agrees to pay DAZ, prior to or concurrent with delivery of the Content, the full license fee for use of the Content. User agrees to pay DAZ any and all applicable tax that is levied in conjunction with the purchase of the license for the Content whenever DAZ must collect and/or pay such taxes from or on behalf of User according to the applicable statutes and ordinances, as interpreted by the departmental authority of the taxing unit. Furthermore, User agrees to pay DAZ all costs, expenses, and attorney’s fees expended by DAZ in the collection of the license fees and any applicable taxes, whether by filing a lawsuit or through arbitration.
TITLE AND OWNERSHIP. The Content contains copyrighted and/or proprietary information protected by the laws of the United States and/or international laws and treaties. DAZ retains all rights in, title to, and ownership of the DAZ Content. The 3rd-party published artists retain all right in, title to, and ownership of the PA Content. User shall take all steps reasonably necessary to protect all ownership rights. DAZ gives no rights or warranties with regard to the use of any objects, names, trademarks, service marks, or works of authorship depicted in any Content.
RESTRICTIONS ON COPYING. The Content is provided for User’s exclusive use. User does not have the right to provide the Content to others in any form or on any media except as set forth in this EULA. The Content may be copied in whole or in part for User’s exclusive use. Specifically, User may copy the Content onto the storage device of an unlimited number of computers. However, use of the Content on any of the computers to which User has installed the Content is for User’s exclusive use and no other individual or entity. Each individual must obtain his/her own license to use the Content.
TERMS OF USE. User may (i) access, use, copy and modify the Content in the creation and presentation of animations and renderings, and (ii) incorporate two dimensional images (including two dimensional images that simulate motion of three dimensional objects) derived from the Content in other works and publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense such combined works; provided that User may not in any case: (a) separately publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any Content or any part thereof; or (b) publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the Content can be separately exported, or extracted into any re-distributable form or format. Subject to the foregoing limitations, and the rights, if any, of third parties in or to the objects represented by the Content, User may copy, distribute, and/or sell User’s animations and 2-D renderings derived from the Content. All other rights with respect to the Content and their use are reserved by DAZ and its PAs.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, DAZ wishes to encourage user expansion of the catalog of Content available to users. Therefore, User may also access, use, copy, and modify the Content stored on such computers in the creation of one or more derived or additional works provided that:

any derived or additional works are designed to require or encourage the use of Content available through the online DAZ store either by (i) requiring the use of such Content to function, or (ii) allowing only limited function when not used in conjunction with Content from the online DAZ store; and
upon receipt of a written request from DAZ, User will immediately cease any and all distribution of the derived works User has created from the Content licensed from DAZ, if DAZ has determined, at its sole discretion, that (i) the derived work is substantially similar to or is a clone of existing Content; or (ii) the derived work fails to require the use of Content available through the online DAZ store.
Physical images (3D-print, molded copy, CNC-routed copy, and the like) of Content or any art derived from the Content is permitted only by User’s purchase from DAZ, via the User’s online DAZ store account, permission to deliver User’s derived works (art), including necessary Content, to an entity that creates 3D-images in a physical medium. User may then deliver User’s art in file format to that 3rd-party to have physical images printed or created, up to the limitations set forth in the online DAZ Store as delineated on the purchase page associated with the permission product. These limitations govern (i) personal and/or commercial use of the physical, printed images; and (ii) the quantity of 3-D printed images allowed.

OTHER RESTRICTIONS. This EULA is User’s proof of License to exercise the rights granted herein and may be printed and retained by User. User shall not give, sell, rent, lease, sublicense, or otherwise transfer or distribute the Content on a temporary or permanent basis without the prior written consent of DAZ. User may not reverse engineer, de-compile, disassemble, or create derivative works from the Content except as set forth in Section E above. These restrictions do not pertain to rendered 2-D images or pre-rendered animations.
PROTECTION AND SECURITY. User agrees that the Content is the property of and proprietary to DAZ and its PAs, and further agrees to protect the Content and all parts thereof from unauthorized disclosure and use by User’s agents, employees, associates, family members, customers, or any other 3rd party. User shall be exclusively responsible to ensure the selection, supervision, management, control, and use of the Content conforms to all terms of this EULA.
EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. The Content may be subject to the export controls of the United States Departments of State and Commerce and User agrees to fully comply with all applicable United States export regulations governing export, destination, ultimate end user, and other restrictions relating to the Content.
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT RESTRICTIONS RIGHTS. If User is acquiring the Content on behalf of any unit or agency of the United States Government, the following provision applies—it is acknowledged that the Content and the documentation were developed at private expense and that no part is in the public domain and that the Content and documentation are provided with restricted rights.  Use, duplication, or disclosure by the Government is subject to restrictions as set forth in Subparagraph (c)(1)(ii) of the Rights in Technical Data and Computer Software clause at DFARS 252.227-7013, or Subparagraphs (c)(1) and (2) of the Commercial Computer Software—Restricted Rights at 48 CFR 52.227-19, as applicable.  Contractor/Manufacturer is DAZ Productions, Inc., 224 S. 200 W, Suite 250, Salt Lake City, UT 84101.
PATENT COPYRIGHT, AND TRADE SECRET INDEMNITY. User agrees to indemnify DAZ and hold DAZ harmless against all liability resulting from or related to any claim of patent or copyright infringement, misappropriation, or misuse of trade secrets or other proprietary rights based upon the use by User of the Content, or any portion thereof, in whatever form, or the exercise by User of any rights granted under this Agreement.
INFRINGEMENT WARRANTY. DAZ warrants to the User that, to the best of its knowledge, the digital data comprising the Content do not infringe the rights, including patent, copyright and trade secret rights, of any third party, nor was the digital data unlawfully copied or misappropriated from digital data owned by any third party; provided, however, that DAZ makes no representation or warranty with respect to infringement of any third party’s rights in any image, trademarks, works of authorship or object depicted by such Content.
LIMITED WARRANTY. DAZ warrants that the Content will perform substantially in accordance with the accompanying written materials for a period of seven (7) days from the date of payment of the license fees. Upon the return of the defective media (or data file) and a copy of the paid invoice, DAZ has the option to replace the media (or data file) or refund the license fees.  In the event DAZ elects to refund the license fees, User’s License to the Content is revoked and User warrants and agrees to return the Content to DAZ and to destroy any and all copies made of the Content. In no event shall DAZ’S liability exceed the license fee paid for licensing the Content.  If the media was damaged by accident, abuse, or misapplication, DAZ shall have no obligation to replace the media or refund the license fees.  All replacement media will be warranted for a like period of seven (7) days.  There is no warranty after the expiration of the warranty period.
NO OTHER WARRANTIES. DAZ DISCLAIMS ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR ARISING FROM USAGE OF TRADE OR COURSE OF DEALING OR PERFORMANCE, WITH RESPECT TO THE CONTENT, AND THE ACCOMPANYING WRITTEN MATERIALS. IN NO EVENT SHALL DAZ OR ITS DEALERS, DISTRIBUTORS, OR SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER, WHETHER BASED ON CONTRACT, TORT WARRANTY OR OTHER LEGAL OR EQUITABLE GROUNDS, INCLUDING, WITHOUT WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION, OR OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS, ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO THE CONTENT, EVEN IF DAZ HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. BECAUSE SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO USER.
NO LIABILITY FOR HARDWARE. User assumes complete responsibility for all hardware used in conjunction with the Content.  DAZ shall not be responsible in any way for the non-performance or malfunction of any hardware.
REMEDIES.
Injunctive Remedies. The remedies provided herein shall not be deemed exclusive, but shall be cumulative and shall be in addition to all other remedies provided by law and equity.  No delay or omission in the exercise of any remedy herein provided or otherwise available to DAZ shall impair or effect DAZ’S right to exercise the same.  An extension of indulgence or forbearance (which must be in writing) shall not otherwise alter or effect DAZ’S rights or obligations nor be deemed to be a waiver thereof.  The parties hereto agree that breach of any provisions of non-disclosure, secrecy, confidentiality, copying, use, protection, and security in this Agreement by User will cause immediate and irreparable damage and injury to DAZ.  Each of the parties confirms that damages at law may be an inadequate remedy for breach or threatened breach of any such provisions. The parties agree that in such event DAZ shall be entitled by right to an Injunction restraining the User from violating any of said provisions. User hereby acknowledges that DAZ has disclosed or will disclose to User valuable proprietary data set products, which are new and unique and give DAZ a competitive advantage in the marketplace; that DAZ intends to use such information to expand its business throughout the world; and that a violation of any of the provisions of this Agreement is material and important and DAZ shall, in addition to all other rights and remedies available hereunder, at law or otherwise, be entitled to a Temporary Restraining Order and an Injunction to be issued by any court of competent jurisdiction enjoining and restraining User from committing any violation of said provisions, and User shall consent to the issuance of such Injunction.  User acknowledges that the remedies provided for in this Agreement are not injurious to or violative of any public interest or policy, and will not create a hardship greater than is necessary to protect the interest of DAZ.
Arbitration Remedies. Where international courts do not uphold the aforementioned injunctive remedies, User agrees that any and all controversies, claims, or disputes with DAZ shall be subject to binding arbitration to be held in the state of Utah administered by the Atlanta International Arbitration Society “ATLAS” in accordance with its rules then in effect. The Parties hereby agree that ATLAS may, at its sole discretion, designate a different meeting place that is determined by ATLAS to be beneficial to the arbitration. User agrees to waive any right to a trial by jury, including any statutory claims under local law. User further understands that this agreement to arbitrate also applies to any disputes that DAZ may have with User.
Procedure. User agrees that any arbitration will be administered by ATLAS and that the neutral arbitrator will be selected in a manner consistent with its international rules for the resolution of license disputes. User agrees that the arbitrator shall have the power to decide any motions brought by any party to the arbitration, including motions for summary judgment and/or adjudication and motions to dismiss and demurrers, prior to any arbitration hearing. User also agrees that the arbitrator shall have the power to award any remedies, including attorneys’ fees and costs, available under applicable law. User agrees to a 50%/50% split of any administrative or hearing fees charged by the arbitrator or ATLAS except that USER shall pay the initial filing fees for any disputes User initiates with DAZ. User agrees that the decision of the ATLAS arbitrator shall be in writing and shall be binding. User agrees that only where local courts will not uphold DAZ’s injunctive release (Section O paragraph (a) above), arbitration shall be the sole, exclusive and final remedy for any dispute between User and DAZ. Accordingly, except as provided for by this agreement, neither User DAZ will pursue court action regarding claims that are subject to arbitration. Notwithstanding, the arbitrator will not have the authority to disregard or refuse to enforce any lawful company policy, and the arbitrator shall not order or require the company to adopt a policy not otherwise required by law which the company has not adopted.
GENERAL PROVISIONS.
Costs and Expenses of Enforcement.  In the event of the failure of either party hereto to comply with any provisions of this Agreement, the defaulting party shall pay any and all costs and expenses, including reasonable attorneys’ fees arising out of or resulting from such default (including any incurred in connection with any appeal), incurred by the injured party in enforcing its rights and remedies, whether such right or remedy is pursued by filing a lawsuit or otherwise.
Governing Law, Jurisdiction, and Venue.  This Agreement is governed by the laws of the State of Utah. Jurisdiction and venue for the enforcement of this Agreement shall be found exclusively in the courts within Salt Lake County, State of Utah.
Further Information.  Should User have any questions concerning any of the provisions of this Agreement, or if User desires to contact DAZ, please write:  DAZ Productions, Inc., 224 South 200 West, Suite 250, Salt Lake City, UT 84101.  If User needs technical support for a DAZ product, please call (801)983-6415.  DAZ’s technical support hours are 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. M.S.T.
Trademark and Copyright.  All DAZ products are trademarks or registered trademarks of DAZ Productions, Inc.  All other brand and product names are trademark or registered trademark of their respective holders.
Severability. If any part of this Agreement is found to be unenforceable, the other provisions shall remain fully valid and enforceable. It is the intention and agreement of the parties that all of the terms and conditions hereof be enforced to the fullest extent permitted by law. If a provision of this Agreement causing this Agreement to supersede a previous license agreement between DAZ and User is found to be unenforceable in whole or in part, the previous license agreement shall remain in full force and effect to whatever extent this Agreement does not supersede the previous license agreement.
NOTICE: DAZ Content that provides PDF and/or TIFF-LZW and/or GIF and/or Postscript-LZW and/or LZW graphics capabilities utilize technology covered by U.S. Patent No. 4,558,302, and all foreign counterparts (“Unisys Patent”). The license granted to the User hereunder permits the User to use the Unisys Patent in conjunction with the use of the Content only. Use of any other product or the performance of any other activity involving the compression/decompression technology covered by the Unisys Patent requires a separate license from Unisys Corporation. This DAZ Content contains software that is based in part on the work of the Independent JPEG Group (http://www.ijg.org/). This DAZ Content utilizes Zlib library compression technology that is proprietary to Jean-loup Gailly and Mark Adler (http://www.zlib.net/) copyright © 1995-2002.

2.0 Academic Addendum
The terms of this addendum 2.0 are in force only when the User has fully qualified as an academic or educational customer. User can request this qualification by contacting the DAZ sales team at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) or via telephone at 801.983.6415.

Once the User has been notified in writing by DAZ that he/she qualifies as an academic or educational customer, the terms of this addendum 2.0 apply to all DAZ Content the User has licensed via their online DAZ store account. DAZ Content can be identified in the online DAZ store using the following criteria:

In the description field for the product, the DAZ icon appears:
When the User moves the mouse pointer over the icon, a text box appear with the words “DAZ Original”
The terms of this addendum 2.0 do not apply to PA Content the User has licensed via their online DAZ store account.

USE AND RE-USE OF DAZ CONTENT FOR ACADEMIC PURPOSES.All terms of the General License apply with the following extensions:
A single licensed copy of the DAZ Content is required for each Academic Effort (educational project, classroom instruction, demonstration, etc.) regardless of the number of computer systems or users required to achieve the Academic Effort; however, at the end of each Academic Effort (project, classroom instruction, demonstration, etc.) the DAZ Content must be uninstalled from all computer systems used in conjunction with the Academic Effort. The DAZ Content may be re-used (re-installed) for a subsequent Academic Effort provided it was uninstalled from all systems used in the previous Academic Effort.
No commercial use of any kind can be made with the resulting work product from such Academic Efforts by any person or entity. All resulting work product must remain solely educational or academic and all copies of the work product, electronic or otherwise, must remain solely with the Academic Institution.
3.0 DAZ Commercial Real-time Addendum
The terms of this addendum 3.0 are in force only when User has purchased one of the following products from the online DAZ store:

Indy Game Developer License (sku: 12113)
Commercial Game Developer License (sku: 12479)
RawArt Commercial Game Developer License (sku: 12618)
The terms of this addendum 3.0 apply to all products the User has purchased via their online DAZ store account that can be identified in the online DAZ store using the following criteria:

In the description field for the product, the DAZ icon appears:
When the User moves the mouse pointer over the icon, a text box appear with the words “DAZ Original”
And if User has purchased RawArt Commercial Game Developer License (sku: 12618)
View the product page in the online DAZ store, under the title of the product a field appears labeled “Shop more by:” and the field must be populated with the term “RawArt” and only the term “RawArt”
All Content that can be identified according to the above criteria shall hereinafter be referred to as “CRT Content”. The terms of this addendum 3.0 do not apply to any other Content the User has licensed via their online DAZ store account.

MODIFIED TERMS OF USE. This section replaces Section 1.0 Paragraph E “TERMS OF USE” for CRT Content ONLY. User may also (i) incorporate, copy and modify the CRT Content which they have purchased from the DAZ online store in the creation and presentation of animations and renderings which may require access to the CRT Content by the User’s customer during electronic execution of the User’s application, and (ii) incorporate two dimensional images (including two dimensional images that simulate motion of three dimensional objects) derived from the Content in other works and publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense such combined works; provided that User may not in any case: (a) separately publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any CRT Content or any part thereof; or (b) publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any CRT Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the CRT Content can be separately exported, extracted, or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format. Subject to the foregoing limitations, and the rights, if any, of third parties in or to the objects represented by the CRT Content, User may copy, distribute, and/or sell User’s animations and renderings derived from the CRT Content. All other rights with respect to the CRT Content and their use are reserved by DAZ and its PAs. User warrants and is responsible to ensure that the CRT Content used in the User’s application are not available to end users in their native formats and that every effort is made to protect the CRT Content from theft or copyright infringement by employing technology, asset protection, encryption or any other resources at User’s disposal.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, DAZ wishes to encourage user expansion of the catalog of CRT Content available to users. Therefore, User may also access, use, copy, and modify the CRT Content stored on such computers in the creation of one or more derived or additional works provided that:

any derived or additional works are designed to require or encourage the use of Content available through the online DAZ store either by (i) requiring the use of such Content to function, or (ii) allowing only limited function when not used in conjunction with Content from the online DAZ store; and
User hereby agrees that upon receipt of a written request from DAZ, to cease any and all distribution of the User’s art that User has created from the CRT Content if DAZ has determined, at its sole discretion, that (i) the art User has created from the CRT Content is substantially similar to or is a clone of existing Content; or (ii) the derived or additional works fail to require the use of Content available through the online DAZ store.
Physical images (3D-print, molded copy, CNC-routed copy, and the like) of Content or any art derived from the Content is permitted only by User’s purchase from DAZ, via the User’s online DAZ store account, permission to deliver User’s derived works (art), including necessary Content, to an entity that creates 3D-images in a physical medium. User may then deliver User’s art in file format to the 3rd-party to have physical images printed or created, up to the limitations set forth in the online DAZ Store delineated on the purchase page associated with the permission product. These limitations govern (i) personal and/or commercial use of the physical, printed images; and (ii) the quantity of 3-D printed images allowed.

RESTRICTIONS ON SEPARATE SALE OF CONTENT WITHIN OTHER WORKS While incorporation of the Content into User’s applications is authorized as set forth above, User expressly agrees and acknowledges that any discrete sale of CRT Content separate from a purchase of the User’s application is allowable ONLY with express written consent of DAZ. Thus, for example, within the context of a game, the sale or purchase of the CRT Content, portions thereof, or either 2D or 3D derivatives thereof as a separately-purchased commodity or upgrade using items of actual or virtual worth is prohibited without prior written consent of DAZ. Written consent of DAZ may be sought at the address set forth herein.
DAZ PRODUCTIONS, INC. 2013.

Contact information

DAZ Productions, Inc.
224 S 200 W, Suite #250
Salt Lake City, UT 84101
801.983.6415 - Phone
801.994.6032 - Fax
1.800.267.5170 - Phone (Toll Free Line)
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) - Email
http://www.daz3d.com

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Posted: 09 February 2013 08:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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It ought to be against the law to hold my product’s all ready paid for under another EULA HOSTAGE!!!!!

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Posted: 09 February 2013 10:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Alethas Fantasy - 09 February 2013 08:30 PM

It ought to be against the law to hold my product’s all ready paid for under another EULA HOSTAGE!!!!!

I know this is going to be an unsatisfying answer because I hate it when I get this answer but your best bet at this point is to go thru the Zen Help Desk. I say this because several people have indicated to me both online and offline that they were blocked but now aren’t and they didn’t click the agreement. If that’s true then you still being blocked seems like it might be some web site error or oversight that can be fixed?

I’m no lawyer so I can’t say for certain I’m pretty sure it’s illegal to hold hostage, access to something someone paid good money for with the understanding they would always be able to redownload it whenever necessary. The current agreement as near as I can tell pertains to new purchases only with the exception of the point on 3D Printing. Since that is a new technology that couldn’t have been anticipated when the old EULA was created, then it’s fair and reasonable to update the old agreements according to that. Which presumably that all that this really is about previously bought items? That Daz is just wanting users to agree that the clause about 3D printing applies to all Daz products regardless of when they were bought. Now since I’m not 100% sure on the law it may in fact be legal to block you until you agree to that. However the way they’re going about it is rude, offensive and demonstrates, in my opinion, really poor customer relations. Especially in light of all the issues customers have been upset over the past two years.

I’ve been a user/customer here for over 10 years, I go back to the day Lady Little Fox was still here and Koshini was the new figure on the block. I’m pretty sure one of my very first purchases contained a Koshini product. Anyway back then Daz was a much much better experience. The site was still a buzz with creativity and people eager to help or share new ways they learned of creating art and there was very little of the negativity I see expressed today. It was a much more enjoyable experience coming to Daz back then. So having experienced that I’m almost embarassed for Daz about how bad things must seem to new users. Core programs not working for large blocks of users, like Bryce 7 Pro not working for any Mac Users running any of the last 2 or 3 versions of the Mac OS without using workarounds that cost money and aren’t exactly a snap to use, and Daz has not done anything to correct the problem. Now in fairness they do say their priority is to fix that first the next time Bryce enters developement cycle, which is when such things get fixed and upgrades happen. Problem is the didn’t say when that will be, months, years? I think it’s been over two years since this problem was created. Also in fairness it was a timing problem with when Bryce left the Dev Cycle and when Apple upgraded it’s OS. Plus the people one needs to do the actual coding aren’t always permanent full time staff. Sometimes they work under contract and then move on. So it’s not always possible to “just fix” a problem at the drop of a hat. Still two years is a long time to be denied the ability to use a program and it’s associated products that you spent good money on unless you’re fortunate enough to be able to afford the workaround options which involves buying other software from other companies and another OS as well. Fortunately I’m a PC guy and so none of that was a problem for me I just mention it as one part of the reason there is so much tension on the site these days and why it would be in Daz’s interest to not bully their customers.

I could list many more things, like major problems with several of the releases of their name brand solution Daz Studio, two updates to the site that went absolutely horribly wrong even though Daz was supposedly taking their time implementing it to make sure it was right. I also so alot of anger about Genesis and how it excluded Poser users for a long time until Daz finally got around to DSON and even now their are still deep division, even among offline friends I have with whom I share my love of 3D art. Some love Genesis, some hate it. I have yet to use it but I know the constant updating Genesis products seem to require everytime Daz changes Studio’s abilities worries me. Especially since Daz eliminated the ability for people with large collections of thousands of products built over many years, to quickly check and see what’s been updated in the last site update. I think that’s what this new install manager thing might be about but frankly rather then all the changes I’d rather Daz just made the information visible on the product page by posting the number of files a product has and what sizes they are. They used to do that and that way I could compare a file I had with what the size was supposed to be and if it didn’t match I’d reset the download on that file. Tedious perhaps but I could do it whenever I wanted to without any problems. Now I just got to wait until I find something that doesn’t work, redownload it, and hope the downloaded file is newer and fixes the problem.

What strikes me about Daz is that they really don’t get their customers. They don’t seem to get that we don’t really care much for change unless it can happen smoothly and improves our overall experience. So it’s in Daz’s best interest to make things happen that way. Like this EULA thing, I see that mainly as a PR blunder. Daz would have been beeter served had the broadcast it more that this was coming and try to address people’s problems before they actually implement it. Would you have minded the EULA thing as much if you knew it was going and that for old products it only added the clause about 3D Printing since that’s a newly emerging issue that the old EULA didn’t cover? That other then that you weren’t agreeing to any change in the rules you were under previously? I don’t see where any reasonable person can have a problem with that. Fact is very few of us are likely to ever have the opportunity to make use of a 3D printer. So in effect you wouldn’t really be agreeing to any change. They could have said “Look we’re sorry that we are going to have to do this but for our protection we can’t allow you access to the things you’ve bought until you agree to this but once you do, you don’t have to do it again.” Those subtle changes would have made this whole thing go alot better maybe even prevented it from becoming an issue at all. Instead of people threatening to close accounts, demanding refunds for everything they ever bought, maybe even some of the venders leaving the site if a couple of posts I saw were true.

With all that Daz has been thru and the amount of business it must have cost them the last thing Daz needs is another issue riling customers. Anyway, I’m sorry I turned my reply to your post into my own personal rant so to speak. I’m hoping though that someone in an influential enough position at Daz see’s this and says, “You know what, that guy is right. We can do better. We need to do better and if we do better in the end it will be better for us too.” Yeah yeah, I know, I’m an idealist, but then again aren’t most artists? Don’t most artistic minds so the world in an idealized way?

 

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Posted: 10 February 2013 12:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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As I understand you can’t copyright themes, such as Steam Punk, Victorian, SciFi, nor can you copyright a can opener, coffee maker, chair, etc, and if you’re going to copyright anything you better dam* well properly file it with the copyright office if you want to have it enforced, if needed, later on down the road.  With regard to the new EULA, it’s all fine and good that DAZ wants to protect their business, however I don’t believe it’s legal to hold hostage product previously purchased under a previously agreed upon EULA.  It would be okay if the product(s) were free, but money was exchanged and when you’re talking about an exchange of money you get into a whole new ballgame of laws and consumer protection. 

As far as US law goes, ex post facto law is a huge NOT GONNA HAPPEN when a potential conviction concerns punishment.  These laws have to do with criminal and not civil issues.  It’s also known as retroactive law, which is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences of actions that were committed, or relationships that existed, before the enactment of the law.  That’s basically what this, and any other EULA drawn up AFTER the purchase of a product(s) and agreed to BEFORE this, or any other agreed upon EULA, is.  This is why there are consumer protection laws, US Constitutional laws as well as the Constitutions of each state.  That’s why the US Constitution provides for protection from the abuse of power by the government and if it’s a criminal charge against a customer, it’ll apply here.  You can’t keep changing your agreements and expect your customers to go along with it or be forced to agree to it.  But, no matter, nothing is going to happen to make this right for both DAZ and their customers unless some sort of litigation is brought.  Actually, all our bitc*ing isn’t going to change a thing unless there is a court decision.

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Posted: 10 February 2013 03:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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..so basically, let’s say I want to create a physical 3D figure “print” of my namesake based on the work I’ve done using Daz figure and clothing meshes along with he MAT textures for use as a personal mini figure in an RPG game, I would need a special licence form Daz even though it would just be for my own personal use?

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Posted: 10 February 2013 03:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Actually An Eula like Daz is making is not affecting us , as there always was one and we do it anyway, it is just the problem that in our time things are getting Silly . To much control to many rules. you hear al the time what you cant do but what about what you can ? it is like Polotex we want it now so we sign even if we in reality only get hot air for it. Later it will be a rule as Majority Agreed so we end up to be puppets of corporation telling us what we cant do. actually we cant count anymore on one hand what is in our daly usage not based on fees or rules.

I giving more and more respect to those who are capable to share as they don’t have Pages of rules and don’t enforce you under such a system.
Not long ago I made a Improvement on a figure created by another artist at Renderosity , made out of he’s props a outfit that I shared for free in the free section of renderosity . I asked the creator of that Product if it is ok for him to redistribute hes Improved Product and for my surprise , 

hes answer was there are no restrictions on my Products.

but this is something that now days may happen one in a million the whole rest just makes a big Commercial about what you get on a front-page when you buy , until you pay then you realize you just bought a can of Hot air as there is the trap an EULA thick as a book that tells you what you cant do.

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Posted: 10 February 2013 04:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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I will just point out in this thread, as has been pointed out in other threads on the subject already, that the new Eula is actually less restrictive than the old one was.

The only real change is the clause about 3D printing, and that was not in the old one because 3D printing is in itself a new thing.

Previously you agreed to the EULA every time you installed a DAZ 3D product, as you clicked to accept it every time you ran an installer.

Now with the forthcoming change to products being supplied in zips instead of installers you are being asked to agree to the EULA before you download instead.  So one click to accept, whether you are downloading 1 or 100 products, instead of all those separate clicks to accept when you install.

It has also been said that if you choose to redownload content in the older installers, then you can do so, and hold yourself to the older, more restrictive EULA.  However the older installers will not be there for much longer.

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Posted: 10 February 2013 05:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Well how can something be less restrictive if it restricts almost everything the only thing changed is that there been some things more added that you cant do.
and BTW it was said earlier that things not mentioned in the EULA means you cant do but actually it is opposite what has not been mentioned is what you can do.
as far what the education goes.

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Posted: 10 February 2013 05:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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A question,  did you actually read the old EULA, every time you installed a DAZ 3D product ?

Be honest, did you just click Accept and let the installer carry on or did you scroll through and read it.

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Posted: 10 February 2013 05:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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smile Actually I dont read the eula because there is allot of things that cant stand , as a sample 99% of products are not registered at the Copyright office
most cant even be copyrighted as they are Derivative anyway it takes high costs for every product to be registered and approved.
then a half year of waiting until getting the registration number , so basically the only protected thing on 3D content is the EXE and The eula
once unpacked it looses most Protection. so actually a big nonsense.
a single morph cant be protected as it changes coordinates all the time , a file re-saved will change the whole structure of the script
and be hardly comparable with the original . this is also why a CR2 cant be protected it is only a call up script for to gather different files on your computer together
the OBJ is another thing but you load it then make some changes in a high end Program or even in the setup room of Poser add a little remove a little
the Original OBJ will be not comparable with the new created .

and BTW is it not what most Creators do all the time derive from other Products ans sell it as an original ??

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Posted: 10 February 2013 05:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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ok where are the bottles and cans promised in this thread title?
. . . . . . . lots of whine . . . .

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Posted: 10 February 2013 06:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Copyright does not require registration - it belongs to the creator at the moment of creation. registration is a tool for obtaining damages in the event of a successful prosecution, in the US - many other countries do not have equivalent requirements for that.

If part of a product (a morph, say) is used in the creation of another than that other is a derivative product. Whether that can be detected is a practical matter, but it is a derivative none the less. It is simple to avoid problems here by using tools like reverse Deformations to separate out your own morph from those of others.

Content in the stores or sold as freebies should eb original work - it may use the joint centres of another figure if it is clothing or the like, but that is permitted under the item’s EULA. If an item is built using parts of another’s work beyond what is permitted in the EULA it will be taken down when discovered.

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Posted: 10 February 2013 06:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Hades 65 - 10 February 2013 05:49 AM

the OBJ is another thing but you load it then make some changes in a high end Program or even in the setup room of Poser add a little remove a little
the Original OBJ will be not comparable with the new created .

This is horribly incorrect. Most morphs are created originally by editing the original OBJ to your needs and then importing it back as a morph target. It might look different, but the vertex count and topography will be identical to the original. Redistributing the OBJ would be a serious breach of the EULA even though you took the time to edit it. However, when converted to a full morph you don’t actually have the mesh any more but a series of vectors to move the vertices which make up the original mesh. There’s a huge difference. This is why morphs won’t work without the original figure it was made for.

and BTW is it not what most Creators do all the time derive from other Products ans sell it as an original ??

This almost offensive to suggest. There’s a great deal of work which goes into creating content, and copy-pasta is rarely one of them unless it’s from their own work. Anything derived from an existing mesh, unless with specific permissions, wouldn’t be allowed. They’re usually either created from scratch or from a very basic template either made by the author themselves or bought for the purpose. In the latter case they’re a derivative work, but the templates are generally VERY basic, so the final product rarely looks anything like the original.

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