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License Agreement / 3D printing question
Posted: 08 February 2013 04:51 AM   [ Ignore ]
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This is a call out to anyone (native?) with a better understanding
of the wording in (American) legal documents:

I’m trying to understand line 33 of the License Agreement found
when installing the Install Manager but am somewhat unfamiliar
with this dialect of the English language.

Here is the text as it looks right now:
|
| Physical images (3D-print, molded copy, CNC-routed copy, and the like) of Content or any art derived from the Content
| is permitted only by User’s purchase from DAZ, via the User’s online DAZ store account, permission to deliver User’s
| derived works (art), including necessary Content, to an entity that creates 3D-images in a physical medium.
|
| User may then deliver User’s art in file format to that 3rd-party to have physical images printed or created, up to
| the limitations set forth in the online DAZ Store as delineated on the purchase page associated with the
| permission product.
|
| These limitations govern (i) personal and/or commercial use| of the physical, printed images; and (ii) the quantity of
| 3-D printed images allowed.
|

My understanding of the first question is that :
Since I did purchase the original product from Daz, at the time
logged in to my own account I have the right to deliver my own
derived works (art) to anyone who can produce physical 3D
OBJECTS.

I am unable to decipher the meaning of the second sentence…
Does anyone have a link to ‘the limitations set forth in the online DAZ Store’ ?
Is there a product in the store called ‘Permission’?

Where can I find more information about the limitations
mentioned in the last sentence?


An older sample of the license agreement (found in the
14812_GenesisStarterEssentials_1.4_trx seem more clear
to my untrained eye:

Line 19:
|
| You may (i) access, use, copy and modify the 3-D Models stored on such computers at such single location in the
| creation and presentation of animations and renderings which may require runtime access to the 3-D Model(s),
| and (ii) incorporate two dimensional images (including two dimensional images that simulate motion of three
| dimensional objects) derived from the 3-D Model(s) in other works and publish, market, distribute, transfer,
| sell or sublicense such combined works; provided that you may not in any case: (a) separately publish, market,
| distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any 3-D Model(s) or any part thereof; or (b) publish, market, distribute,
| transfer, sell or sublicense renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from
| which any original 3-D Model(s), or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the original 3-D
| Model(s) can be separately exported, extracted, or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format. Subject
| to the foregoing limitations, and the rights, if any, of third parties in or to the objects represented by the 3-D
| Model(s), you may copy, distribute, and/or sell your animations and renderings derived from the 3-D Model(s).
| All other rights with respect to the 3-D Model(s) and their use are reserved to DAZ3D (and its licensors).
|

My understanding of the
above is that my legal use of the data inside the installer
was limited to creating animations and renderings. Solid
objects coming out of a 3D printer for example were not
allowed by this agreement. Right or wrong?

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Posted: 08 February 2013 06:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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As I understand it the issue is not 3D Printing itself, but distributing the geometry.  So if you own a 3D Printer - the use is unrestricted.  But if you need to send the geometry to a third party, you need to make sense of that gibberish somehow.

I hope I’m right, because if I ever get a 3D Printer I am making that Cow Chess Set I always wanted!!

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Posted: 08 February 2013 06:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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As Sockratease says, the section means you need a separate license to have 3D prints made from DAZ content. The standard license covers using the content to create 2D images and animations for commercial use, but not 3D (whether in solid form from a printer or in data form in a game).

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Posted: 08 February 2013 06:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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You are allowed to make a physical 3D image of your art (containing content from DAZ3D) if you own a 3D Printer.  You need to get permission (or a licence) to have someone create the physical 3D image for you.

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Posted: 08 February 2013 06:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Richard Haseltine - 08 February 2013 06:22 AM

As Sockratease says, the section means you need a separate license to have 3D prints made from DAZ content. The standard license covers using the content to create 2D images and animations for commercial use, but not 3D (whether in solid form from a printer or in data form in a game).

Thanks for confirming this Richard, that’s how I understood it to be.
Could you expand on it a bit though please.

Is getting a separate licence as simple as the person who owns the printer and who would be receiving the files required to make the 3D print having to purchase the items from the Daz store him/herself and if not, how would one go about obtaining a ‘separate licence’?

The principle of not redistributing the geometry (in any form) is a simple one, but I envisage the 3D print issue becoming a minefield in the years to come and think that it really needs to be nailed down as soon as possible.

Unless someone comes up with the 3D equivalent of the .pdf file, 3D printing companies aren’t going to know if their customers own a separate licence to provide them with the file they require, the customers aren’t going to know if the printing company owns a licence for the items they want 3D printing and people aren’t going to know if the 3D printed objects they are purchasing were printed with the correct licence or if they are in effect illegal copies.

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Posted: 08 February 2013 07:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Richard Haseltine - 08 February 2013 06:22 AM

As Sockratease says, the section means you need a separate license to have 3D prints made from DAZ content. The standard license covers using the content to create 2D images and animations for commercial use, but not 3D (whether in solid form from a printer or in data form in a game).

So what licenses are available for someone who recently inherited an old (but almost unused) 3DSystems Thermojet 3D-printer that can produce decent wax masters for casting one (or more) objects out of that mould?

Not that I expect to do many or large masters because of the cost of the wax…

Edited:

That’s really not the subject of this thread… Let’s try again:

Since I am the user who did purchase the content from my online account. To me this part of the license is clear:
“Physical images (3D-print, molded copy, CNC-routed copy, and the like) of Content or any art derived from the Content is permitted only by User’s purchase from DAZ, via the User’s online DAZ store account”

My understanding of the next part of this sentence is that they are trying to state that the user have their permission to send the files to someone who can create the previously mentioned:

“, permission to deliver User’s derived works (art), including necessary Content, to an entity that creates 3D-images in a physical medium.”

The part I fail to get it the following:
” User may then deliver User’s art in file format to that 3rd-party to have physical images printed or created, up to the limitations set forth in the online DAZ Store as delineated on the purchase page associated with the permission product.  These limitations govern (i) personal and/or commercial use of the physical, printed images; and (ii) the quantity of 3-D printed images allowed.”

What? Where? Have anyone seen the “purchase page associated with the permission product.”?

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Posted: 08 February 2013 07:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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THAT’S what it says?!?

Which line says that you need a separate license?

Richard Haseltine - 08 February 2013 06:22 AM

As Sockratease says, the section means you need a separate license to have 3D prints made from DAZ content. The standard license covers using the content to create 2D images and animations for commercial use, but not 3D (whether in solid form from a printer or in data form in a game).

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Posted: 08 February 2013 07:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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bringho - 08 February 2013 07:04 AM

The part I fail to get it the following:
” User may then deliver User’s art in file format to that 3rd-party to have physical images printed or created, up to the limitations set forth in the online DAZ Store as delineated on the purchase page associated with the permission product.  These limitations govern (i) personal and/or commercial use of the physical, printed images; and (ii) the quantity of 3-D printed images allowed.”

What? Where? Have anyone seen the “purchase page associated with the permission product.”?

The Anna Marie Goddard Digital Clone was one such item.  From the product page: http://www.daz3d.com/anna-marie-goddard-digital-clone

This product is limited to specific terms of use via the personal request of Anna-Marie Goddard. Please make note of these changes as they are outlined within the End User License Agreement attached with this product.The specific restrictions are as follows:

You may not use the product for any commercial endeavor in any manner which implies its endorsement or association with any product, service, or entity without prior written consent of Anna-Marie Goddard, her attorney(s), or other legal business representation.

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Posted: 08 February 2013 08:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Also, keep in mind the original EULA also restricted 3D printing.  Because 3D Printing was *never* mentioned, the catch all portion section 4 “GENERAL RESTRICTIONS AND TERMS OF USE” of the EULA where it says:

All other rights with respect to the 3-D Model(s) and their use are reserved to DAZ3D (and its licensors).

would technically be seen as disallowing it.

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Posted: 08 February 2013 08:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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It’s been stated rather plainly in other threads that we can do 3D printing with our models now.
The limitations part, it would seem have yet to be printed out as they would be on any concerned product page. Products not yet made.

Now I would hedge a totally unqualified guess that legally I could now take my precious 3d file over to a 3d printer and have them make me a model to hold in my hand. But, quite possibly if one has intention of setting up a real world store to sell little models of Genesis, one had better clear it through Daz3d first. That’s how I as a member of the “general public” would view comments about possible “limitations”.

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Posted: 08 February 2013 08:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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adamr001 - 08 February 2013 07:57 AM
bringho - 08 February 2013 07:04 AM

The part I fail to get it the following:
” User may then deliver User’s art in file format to that 3rd-party to have physical images printed or created, up to the limitations set forth in the online DAZ Store as delineated on the purchase page associated with the permission product.  These limitations govern (i) personal and/or commercial use of the physical, printed images; and (ii) the quantity of 3-D printed images allowed.”

What? Where? Have anyone seen the “purchase page associated with the permission product.”?

The Anna Marie Goddard Digital Clone was one such item.  From the product page: http://www.daz3d.com/anna-marie-goddard-digital-clone

This product is limited to specific terms of use via the personal request of Anna-Marie Goddard. Please make note of these changes as they are outlined within the End User License Agreement attached with this product.The specific restrictions are as follows:

You may not use the product for any commercial endeavor in any manner which implies its endorsement or association with any product, service, or entity without prior written consent of Anna-Marie Goddard, her attorney(s), or other legal business representation.

So if there in no notes on the product page, there exist no limits regarding:

“personal and/or commercial use of the physical, printed images; and (ii) the quantity of 3-D printed images allowed.”

That’s great news!!!

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Posted: 08 February 2013 08:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Satira: It tripped me up also at first. Try removing bits between commas. “permitted only by ... purchase ... permission”

That permission is not included in the license we buy from the store.

The wording does look pretty horrid, but my English skill is far from perfect raspberry

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Posted: 08 February 2013 08:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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bringho - 08 February 2013 08:15 AM

So if there in no notes on the product page, there exist no limits regarding:

“personal and/or commercial use of the physical, printed images; and (ii) the quantity of 3-D printed images allowed.”

That’s great news!!!

That is totally wrong!  The limits are dependent on the 3D printing license.

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Posted: 08 February 2013 08:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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If I were to buy a 3D printer, am I technically allowed to make the prints myself without permission? The license seems to say “permission to deliver content to a third party” and not so much “permission to make prints”.

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Posted: 08 February 2013 08:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Since the licenses to allow 3D printing are not yet available I can’t say how they will work, but they are additional licenses - the section of the EULA is saying you need to purchase a license to get 3D prints made (or possibly that the printer needs to purchase, since we don’t yet have the details).

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Posted: 08 February 2013 08:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Oh, right. Denied unless explicitly allowed. That tripped me up again.

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