Digital Art Zone

 
   
8 of 12
8
The Music Video Thread II :
Posted: 29 July 2012 09:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 106 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  416
Joined  2008-06-25

Let’s all welcome maclean!!

A delightfully weird prog rock song for you: Van der Graaf Generator, “Man-Erg”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTTUjNNMxUc

pumeco - 28 July 2012 06:32 AM

Didn’t like Magica, they’re just another Nightwish to my ears.  There’s clearly talent there, but it’s not compatible with the harmonic and melodic sensors in my ears.  It hits my eardrums and bounces off again rather than being absorbed as anything catchy.  Palava just bored me as well.  Has to be catchy or unusual for me to like it.

You know, you just made me think of this: is there a scientific basis for the concept of “catchiness”? There’s a lot of big hits that don’t seem remotely catchy to me. And the other way around, tracks that begin playing in my head automatically upon merely seeing the title don’t have that effect on other people.

Anyway, I know numerous female fronted bands, so hopefully one of them is going to be “more than Nightwish” for you, sooner or later =) Let’s go on with the classics, then… The Norwegian sorceress Liv Kristine and her Leaves’ Eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r188AJQcJk - I just like the video, but the quality is atrocious, so please listen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r7Bb8fwJVI

 

And her solo stuff, more pop than anything, but as you don’t mind pop…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNgOJDL9iyQ - the video is very pretty and symbolic even, works well with the lyrics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxo_JARuOuc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJzwXRfl9po



As for unusual stuff… hard to gauge what “unusual” means to you. So here’s one of the more accessible Värttinä tracks. Their older stuff is something most people I know find too weird, even though it´s basically Finno-Ugric folk music, and folk music can’t be weird by default IMO…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuMjUvEx9zE


BTW… One thing I noticed - you often point out production, but not individual contributions of the actual band members, not even to the point most people would make, like, “s/he has a good voice”. Made me curious - why is that?

pumeco - 28 July 2012 06:32 AM

Oh, and Lizzy Borden appears to be right nutter (which can be a good thing)!

He is *nods* A true mad genius. Here’s a song off the latest album, a serious one, though if you only read the lyrics you’d never tell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2CLXAYOWc

pumeco - 28 July 2012 06:32 AM

As for Spice and Wolf, the title of the last episode I’ve seen so far was “Wolf and Her Helpless Partner” although I think it should have been called “You two, get a room”.  Will probably watch episode 5 tonight.  Perhaps “girly” wasn’t the right term for it but it’s still girly compared to stuff like Ghost in the Shell.

Lighthearted, I’d say. Girly is something different.

pumeco - 28 July 2012 06:32 AM

Regards Boney M, yes indeed, there’s definitely some serious talent going on with their recordings.  I once tried to look up who did the compression work but hit a brick wall and couldn’t find out.

Farian is probably the name I was trying to remember. If there was a whole team, have you tried asking around for the specifics? I guess there should be disco appreciation forums around, and no decent music forum goes without a thread that scrutinises the gear used…

pumeco - 28 July 2012 06:32 AM

Regards Russia, yes, yes indeed, Russia is respected for it’s achievements as well, of course it is.  I was just dwelling on the negatives when I wrote that.  But yup, Russia is known for opera, musicians, ballet, and of course athletes.

Musicians? Like whom? I mean, I honestly don’t know which ones are known elsewhere.
And to tell the truth, our athletes aren’t as abundant as they used to be. The sports schools system is nearly dead. For instance, Maria Sharapova received all her training in the USA.

pumeco - 28 July 2012 06:32 AM

Your opinion on England is only slightly off I think.  The only problems I ever hear of are between Ireland and the UK, there is generally no other rifts, certainly not with Scotland or Wales, not that I know of.  We don’t have armed men patrolling the borders between England/Scotland or England/Wales - we just go where we like, and so do they, never a problem.  The only real rift was over Northern Ireland and even that seems to be on level ground the last time I heard anything.  As for the English being secretive, yes, your’re right, we are, and that’s a direct result of the way we are treated as citizens.  There is just sooooooooo much red tape in England that it’s become a constant pressure to live here.  This country is perfectly rigged by solicitors for solicitors.  The government have no control over anything, and whatever they do flex their muscles over is always something that puts even more stress on it’s citizens and shoves them further still into that secrecy you observe.

Oh, that is so sad… I was hoping I’d be mistaken on that.

pumeco - 28 July 2012 06:32 AM

Farscape, yup, I thought you might like that.  I noticed that Farscape seemed to be structured differently to other series of the genre in that it played more like a film rather than have a radically different topic for each episode.  Been a while since they showed it here but I would definitely watch it again if they do.

Didn’t the first four seasons of B5 have a story arc, too? Andromeda was initially designed with a giant story arc in mind, but the lead writer got sacked in the middle of season 2, so there was a period of unrelated episodes. Still, they somehow managed to regain their footing more or less by the late season 4, and season 5 was quite coherent by the show’s standards.


At least Andromeda was sort of finished, unlike Farscape that basically ended on a giant cliffhanger. I’ve read there are TV films that bring the story to a conclusion of sorts, but I’ve never seen them.

Makes me think of The Pretender, which is another great show that never got finished, not even with the film sequels…

pumeco - 28 July 2012 06:32 AM

One other thing to be careful of is that you never pick up a British copy that has been censored by the a-holes at the BBFC.  I was absolutely furious when I found a clip on YouTube showing one of the clips the BBFC decided us adults can’t handle.  Don’t you just love censorship, adults telling other adults what they can and can’t watch.  Thank god for the internet then, it means the BBFC bullshit is doomed.
Try not to drink anything when you watch this banned clip (no really):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN6mfc0fFIY

*runs away in terror* Plushie monsters attack!!

pumeco - 28 July 2012 10:23 AM

All I remember was a program the BBC (I think) made some years back, it was an hour-long documentary (Horizon or something like that), and they discovered that the Russians were making diamonds by compressing sand (I think it was sand) using insanely powerful presses which mimic the effect of them being created under the sort of pressure they are naturally created under over time in nature.
...That was a long time ago though, so for all I know, by now you Russkies are probably knocking-out diamonds like there’s no tomorrow.


Interesting. I was under the impression every country does this - diamonds are constantly demanded in technology, to cut and grind metal etc, so where else would people find so many of them… As for them being used in jewellery, this is something I know nothing about =)

 Signature 

do your research before blaming 3Delight for shortcomings of your renders

dA gallery link in profile along with anything else you may need to know about me

my thread with freebies

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2012 09:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 107 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  271
Joined  2005-08-20

http://youtu.be/9HmFg0WYx34

 Signature 

*Sigh* Window->Tabs->Tool Settings->Draw Style->Manipulation: Off
Yeah. It’s like that.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2012 09:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 108 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  506
Joined  2004-06-12

@maclean
Indeed, welcome to the madhouse, and while it’s not Kinski-mad, it’s not far off it either :-P


Not sure I got the message correct from the video you posted, but I interpret it as a warning not to do things just because your friends do.  I noticed that most of them could swim through the air, whereas one of them probably looks like a giant pizza now!


@kettu
Bear with me until I think of some examples to post.


The problem is me; I don’t understand music theory and never learned to read music.  It’s a problem because it means I can’t explain things to you; such as I like certain types of chord progressions and harmonic structure.  Me trying to explain stuff like that would sound really laughable to a musician so I tend not to do it (or at least I try not to do it).  It would take me a whole page just to explain something a real musician could explain in a single sentence.


You asked me why I often mention “production” but not individual contributors.  The reason is I’m into the production side of music.  I develop VST and VSTi as a hobby but intend to make my designs marketable.  Amazingly though, you picked-up on the “Production” thing even though it’s the “Analogue” thing I try to emphasise the most in my posts.  If there is one thing I am perfectly happy to promote and enthuse about, it is analogue technology because today, people simply are not educated as to what is best, they’re brainwashed.


That’s why, for example, I pointed out that the Giorgio Moroder tracks on the previous page were “Beautiful Analogue”.  There are three types of people who will listen to that track.  Those that will listen to it and the analogue aspect of it will just fly right over their heads because they’re listening to it on digital equipment.  Then there are those (the ones who don’t have cloth ears), will pick up on the fact that it still has a smoothness to it even in digital form, one that can only come from something that was recorded in analogue.  And then there are those who will say to themselves, yup, that’s definitely analogue and it rocks!


I point out when something is analogue because the hope is that those who have only ever used digital, will learn to associate the warmth and smoothness with the technique that was used to record it ...


Analogue.


The sound of analogue is so yummy that you simply cannot kill it’s ‘qualities’ even with an atrociously bad YouTube upload.  Here’s what I mean; it’s a terrible quality upload, but turn up the volume and enjoy the sheer solidity of it.  This clip is effectively beaten to a pulp in terms of audio quality, but listen, the fatness of those real analogue synthesisers, the body behind the vocal (a natural side-effect of real analogue recording), and the general warmth of it all - it’s still there - and it’s awesome.


Awesome cover as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFNs_-LGgQs
.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2012 01:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 109 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  506
Joined  2004-06-12
Ascania - 30 July 2012 09:09 AM

http://youtu.be/9HmFg0WYx34

Well that was more fun than finding out about another Kinski special - not.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2012 05:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 110 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  506
Joined  2004-06-12

@Kettu
I’m thinking of a bunch of tracks to post that’ll hopefully allow you to tell me what it is I like.  If you understand music theory etc then you’ll be able to tell me what it is the tracks I like have in common.  I’m having a pretty good think about what to post because I’m curious to know what it is about certain tracks that I find catchy.  If there’s an easy musical term to describe what I like, I would genuinely love to know what it is.


But that can wait, in the meantime ...


The music by that Norwegian Sorceress, again, I have to say nope, didn’t find it catchy.  The first track, “Fake a Smile”, I thought was listenable, but the others just bored me, as with a lot of them it’s as if there’s no wow factor to any aspect of the track.  I don’t expect a track to have a stunning chord sequence, stunning melody, and stunning vocal, but I always expect at least one of those elements to be there.


Whenever I don’t like something, it’s because none of those elements are there so for me, there is nothing to like about it.  I think it was Vangelis once said “If it sounds good, it is good.”.  That makes perfect sense in some contexts, but not in others, and it’s the others part I know nothing about.


Regards the Värttinä track, I had to switch it off around 0:20 as soon as that singing came into it.  I just cannot bear that style of singing - it drives me nuts.  It always sounds as if they’re trying to keep a note but keep faltering.  I realise it’s a style practiced in various cultures but seriously, it drives me nuts.  They do a similar thing in Indian music, but oddly enough I quite like the way Indian singers do it - how strange is that?


The Lizzy Borden track, again, the best one of the post.  It’s not what I listen to, but withing seconds of his music starting, I sort of know the rest is going to be acceptable at the very least.


The Girly and Lighthearted thing, OK, you win, although I should point out that in England, “Girly” is used in an extremely loose fashion, to the extent it can even mean exact opposites.  An example context you might find the word “Girly” in would be “Girly Mag”, meaning a magazine packed with nude women - a men’s magazine.  At the other end of the scale, the context I was using it in, “Girly” means something that girls or women are more likely to be interested in than men.  For example, gossip magazines are Girly, the colour pink is Girly, shaving your legs is girly, knitting is Girly.  There’s no real definition of Girly because the fact is, there are men who wear a pink shirt, and men who shave their legs, it’s just that in general terms, it’s Girly.  I think we all make-up our own minds as to what’s Girly and what isn’t.


Girly can even be synonymous.


I for example see Digital as the Girly technology and Analogue as the brute-force mans technology.  I see Apple iPods as the girly mp3 player and the Sony Walkman as the mans mp3 player.  I wouldn’t walk around with an Apple logo on if you paid me (unless I could hide my face, take the cash and run), but would happily have the Sony logo printed across my shirt.  So even names and logos can be girly.


Regards Farian and the compression, yup, I could use those forums but I just don’t bother.


No famous Russian musicians:
Tchaikovsky?


Regards you sadly not being mistaken about England, yup, you’re right, it is sad.  It’s sad because it makes British citizens like myself balk at the thought of propping-up the country in any shape or form.  It comes out of hatred for the way we are treated, but as with the Olympics right now, people only see the “cool” side of Britian, they’re not the lower class who have to live here.  There’s a saying around the world that most Americans don’t seem to realise that the world extends past the shores of America.  Well, that’s pretty much what it’s like in England too, the only difference being, the government don’t seem to realise the country extends beyond the boundaries of London.


I’m proud to be British, not only because I’m British but because we have a heck of a lot to be proud of.  But the government has no place in that pride, and it is the government that is systematically destroying the place.  You’ll notice in the Olympic Games that the opening was a celebration of what Britian was all about: innovation, industry, inventors.


After all that impressiveness, it’s a pity they didn’t put up a picture of all the dicks in government that have since destroyed all that industry - something for the Olympic Archery teams to target practice on.


Haven’t seen Babylon 5 so I can’t comment, but I was comparing to stuff like Star Trek etc.  Farscape seemed more like a continuous film than the other series.  There was another one I used to like as well, again it was one of the women that made me watch it and if I can remember her name I’ll be able to locate the series.  Again, despite the reason for watching it, it was an enjoyable program, will have to dig deep into my memory for it though - I can picture it but can’t see it.


Regards the diamonds, I’m not talking about casual diamond look-a-likes, I mean they were trying to pass-off home-grown diamonds as real ones, or at least that’s how I remember it.  Had they done so then you can imagine the effect it would have on real diamonds, and the paranoia it would cause when buying them - is it real or is it real - that sort of thing.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 30 July 2012 07:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 111 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  506
Joined  2004-06-12

Good news, you lucky people, I found the other series I was talking about, it’s called “Space Precinct”.  If it weren’t for remembering the name “Simone Bendix” (god I fancied her) - I doubt I’d have found it.


The First photo is of Simone, obviously, and the rest are screenshots from the series.  Anyone who likes Star Trek, Farscape, Thunderbirds, will probably love Space Precinct.  It was one of Gerry Anderson’s works (think Thunderbirds), and you can see that in the sets and spaceships/spacecrafts (I especially used to love the outdoor sets).


Just checked the Wiki, It ran for 24 Episodes and this is Episode 14 “Predator and Prey” :

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxk-eijXPnQ
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn40Dk5g02k
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hl5jFJZToU
Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gki5kp-gf1Q
Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz3Dc-KcE04
.

Image Attachments
SB.jpg
SP1.jpg
SP2.jpg
SP4.jpg
SP5.jpg
Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 July 2012 10:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 112 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  416
Joined  2008-06-25

Hey everyone!! If there’s anyone who’s into the oldschool heavier stuff, Testament released their brand new video today!! I absolutely love this band, they’re always evolving yet keep their unmistakable style… Enjoy!!

Testament - Native Blood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5Ibm8mjSek

pumeco - 30 July 2012 05:22 PM

The problem is me; I don’t understand music theory and never learned to read music.  It’s a problem because it means I can’t explain things to you; such as I like certain types of chord progressions and harmonic structure.  Me trying to explain stuff like that would sound really laughable to a musician so I tend not to do it (or at least I try not to do it).  It would take me a whole page just to explain something a real musician could explain in a single sentence.

I’m a 99% self-taught musician, so don’t worry about your explanations sounding “ridiculous”. I’ve been through much of that myself, and I falter every now and then.

pumeco - 30 July 2012 05:22 PM

I’m thinking of a bunch of tracks to post that’ll hopefully allow you to tell me what it is I like.  If you understand music theory etc then you’ll be able to tell me what it is the tracks I like have in common.  I’m having a pretty good think about what to post because I’m curious to know what it is about certain tracks that I find catchy.  If there’s an easy musical term to describe what I like, I would genuinely love to know what it is.

Yes please, do post your examples. I’m feeling we would be down to a couple of specific chord sequences. You’ve been able to detect microtonal variations, so you have a good ear, and if by any chance there’s perfect pitch involved, then you may well have a preference for certain keys because music in different keys would sound and feel different to you.


Who are your favourite classical composers, BTW?

pumeco - 30 July 2012 05:22 PM

I don’t expect a track to have a stunning chord sequence, stunning melody, and stunning vocal, but I always expect at least one of those elements to be there.

Could you please also post what you’d consider a “stunning vocal”?

pumeco - 30 July 2012 05:22 PM

You asked me why I often mention “production” but not individual contributors.  The reason is I’m into the production side of music.  I develop VST and VSTi as a hobby but intend to make my designs marketable.  Amazingly though, you picked-up on the “Production” thing even though it’s the “Analogue” thing I try to emphasise the most in my posts. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFNs_-LGgQs
.

Oh, I see, thanks for explaining. Now that’s a totally different approach from that of mine - I’m into that side of music that you can put down in notation and perform. I only notice production if it takes away from hearing all the individual performances. And I’ve told you already that I’m not a fervent believer into the definitive superiority of one way over the other. The engineer’s actual skill always supercedes any peculiarities of his equipment. Just as with a musician, a great performer can play a crappy guitar and make it sound fine, while a newbie would not sound good with an expensive instrument.

For me, to tell the truth, recording is only as good as close it sounds to live performance. Because - while I respect music programmers since I know from experience it takes a lot of patience - music was designed to be played live. Not even the best analogue studio can capture the real magic. Analogue stuff is great for vocals, it’s true (I’m not speaking about synths because I’m not a big fan of synthesiser music these days), but I’m not at all sure that if someone gave me a dream room full of high end gear, I could make the recording of my own voice sound the way it does live, all by myself. A skilful engineer, on the other hand, would most likely succeed. So to me, analogue gear is moot without someone to run it - someone who has devoted his/her whole life to perfecting this art.

A human being is central to human art. Not a cool machine. This is my philosophy.


So I’m working with my limited laughable gear (and equally laughable skills), not with any high hopes of becoming the next Hiili Hiilesmaa, but a) simply as part of my personal little journey to unattainable perfection; b) as a challenge, to make the best of what I have. If I ever get good enough to transcend my gear and software, then I’ll upgrade. But given that my life is full of wildly different stuff I love to do, I don’t know if it’s gonna happen any soon (tm).

Just my two cents.


I finally found some early music tracks (searching by song name is easier than by the name of the artist). I’m not sure you (or anyone else in this thread) is going to like it, but this is my true love. The Troubadours. This is where all Western music of today and the majority of Western poetry started. It’s as simple as it gets, but that’s the beauty of it.

And I really couldn’t care less if there was any production involved apart from setting up a handful of mikes. ;P

The performers are the Ensemble Unicorn, Ensemble Oni Wytars and the late Maria Laffitte on the vocals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6RGLZos0fg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfCkmiQ0nDs

 

pumeco - 30 July 2012 05:22 PM

Regards the Värttinä track, I had to switch it off around 0:20 as soon as that singing came into it.  I just cannot bear that style of singing - it drives me nuts.  It always sounds as if they’re trying to keep a note but keep faltering.  I realise it’s a style practiced in various cultures but seriously, it drives me nuts.  They do a similar thing in Indian music, but oddly enough I quite like the way Indian singers do it - how strange is that?

Not that strange. Both types of folk music use microtones (an octave is twelve semitones, a semintone is the fundamental step in Western music, a microtone is a quartertone (half a semitone) or sometimes even less), but they use different scales. Man, it’s a pity you haven’t had formal music training, you’d shine.

pumeco - 30 July 2012 05:22 PM

The Lizzy Borden track, again, the best one of the post.  It’s not what I listen to, but withing seconds of his music starting, I sort of know the rest is going to be acceptable at the very least.


Let’s see then what you think about Jani Lane‘s Warrant...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nINoinmQYU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFV8rWUlp3Y

pumeco - 30 July 2012 05:22 PM

The Girly and Lighthearted thing, OK, you win, although I should point out that in England, “Girly” is used in an extremely loose fashion, to the extent it can even mean exact opposites.
...
  So even names and logos can be girly.


Oh wow, thanks for the explanation! Looks like it’s used much like “gay” =)

pumeco - 30 July 2012 05:22 PM

No famous Russian musicians:
Tchaikovsky?

O.o He’s long dead. And he was a composer, not a musician.

Denis Matsuev, for instance, is a musician - a crazy brilliant piano player: his official playlist


But I was wondering more about Russian pop artists. Some claim international success, but I have yet to verify it for any artist that is not T.a.T.u.

 

pumeco - 30 July 2012 05:22 PM

You’ll notice in the Olympic Games that the opening was a celebration of what Britian was all about: innovation, industry, inventors.

After all that impressiveness, it’s a pity they didn’t put up a picture of all the dicks in government that have since destroyed all that industry - something for the Olympic Archery teams to target practice on.

LOL @ the target practice

I thought the opening was awesome, there was only one thing I wasn’t too impressed with - the part with the mass dancing. I just can’t stand mass dancing. Actually mass anything.

pumeco - 30 July 2012 05:22 PM

Regards the diamonds, I’m not talking about casual diamond look-a-likes, I mean they were trying to pass-off home-grown diamonds as real ones, or at least that’s how I remember it.  Had they done so then you can imagine the effect it would have on real diamonds, and the paranoia it would cause when buying them - is it real or is it real - that sort of thing.

Now I see. It’s just that in my own little world, outside of fantasy movies diamonds just don’t exist in any shape or form that would be different from that of technology diamonds =) So I’m not that bothered.

 

pumeco - 30 July 2012 05:22 PM

The First photo is of Simone, obviously, and the rest are screenshots from the series.  Anyone who likes Star Trek, Farscape, Thunderbirds, will probably love Space Precinct.  It was one of Gerry Anderson’s works (think Thunderbirds), and you can see that in the sets and spaceships/spacecrafts (I especially used to love the outdoor sets)..


Thanks! I hope to have enough time to watch this episode ASAP.

 Signature 

do your research before blaming 3Delight for shortcomings of your renders

dA gallery link in profile along with anything else you may need to know about me

my thread with freebies

Profile
 
 
Posted: 31 July 2012 10:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 113 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  416
Joined  2008-06-25
Ascania - 30 July 2012 09:09 AM

http://youtu.be/9HmFg0WYx34

AH, the 90s… When I was a kid, I was hugely into Masterboy. Another side of 90s, but as 90s as it gets LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGkcsw-7OYw


Now that I’m looking back at it, it’s logical - Masterboy were basically Van Halen with a dance beat =D OK, for the purists - “Van Hagar” XD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfk89hBNO9g

 

 Signature 

do your research before blaming 3Delight for shortcomings of your renders

dA gallery link in profile along with anything else you may need to know about me

my thread with freebies

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 August 2012 02:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 114 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  506
Joined  2004-06-12

OK, Kettu, here you go then, my most favourite piece of music of all time.


I’ve really thought about this, and while it was easy to separate the love I have for this piece from the general stuff that I like, it wasn’t so easy to decide between this and the song that came second to it.  In the end I decided that out of my top two, this one had to win because it never fails to give goosebumps.  I will post the song that came second after you have dissected this one.


All I can tell you about this track is that from the first time I heard it, I could not stop whistling it, and it wasn’t until many years later that a certain company did the best thing ever, and used it to chart the evolution of their company in the most magnificent way.  I already loved the song, but then I saw the ad on TV and thought, wow, that was just fantastic!  The icing on the cake was when I went to the cinema, and totally unexpectedly, they showed a full uncut version of the ad I’d never seen, it was in it’s original super-wide panorama aspect ratio and was blasted through those speakers they use.  I swear my jaw must have hit the floor, I’m sure of it - it was just f*cking incredible - goosebumps like you would not believe.


To me this track is like a musical ‘fix’, where sadly the length is not sufficient, I can play it endless times and never get tired of it, and for a song to be so good I could never tire of it, that alone is praise indeed.  I love everything about it, the vocal, the style, the chord sequence, the melody, the counter-melody, the lyrics, the everything.


Just promise me this before you dissect it:


- Use headphones (yeah I know, you do anyway)
- Play it full screen
- Play it as loud as you can comfortably get away with
- Play it at least twice over


Then dissect it, no cheating.


If you haven’t already guessed it, the attached images hint at what it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHWX2YTolwQ
.

Image Attachments
Asimo1.jpg
Asimo2.jpg
Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 August 2012 06:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 115 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  506
Joined  2004-06-12
Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

I’m a 99% self-taught musician, so don’t worry about your explanations sounding “ridiculous”. I’ve been through much of that myself, and I falter every now and then.

Self-taught here as well, and I falter a lot, to the extent I cannot even call myself a musician.

 

Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

Yes please, do post your examples. I’m feeling we would be down to a couple of specific chord sequences. You’ve been able to detect microtonal variations, so you have a good ear, and if by any chance there’s perfect pitch involved, then you may well have a preference for certain keys because music in different keys would sound and feel different to you.


Who are your favourite classical composers, BTW?

I’m an absolute prick when it comes to Classical Composers because while I respect those works immensely, I’m not really up on who did what.  I know classical music when I hear it, and I almost always like music that is inspired by it, but I’m really behind on who’s who.  I genuinely do have interest in it, but it’s something I’ve always put to the back of my mind, something I’d get into if ever I took music lessons.

 

Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

Could you please also post what you’d consider a “stunning vocal”?

Your wish is my command, here’s one that starts off tame and really builds up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_znmFcLuuU

 

Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

Oh, I see, thanks for explaining. Now that’s a totally different approach from that of mine - I’m into that side of music that you can put down in notation and perform. I only notice production if it takes away from hearing all the individual performances. And I’ve told you already that I’m not a fervent believer into the definitive superiority of one way over the other. The engineer’s actual skill always supercedes any peculiarities of his equipment. Just as with a musician, a great performer can play a crappy guitar and make it sound fine, while a newbie would not sound good with an expensive instrument.

For me, to tell the truth, recording is only as good as close it sounds to live performance. Because - while I respect music programmers since I know from experience it takes a lot of patience - music was designed to be played live. Not even the best analogue studio can capture the real magic. Analogue stuff is great for vocals, it’s true (I’m not speaking about synths because I’m not a big fan of synthesiser music these days), but I’m not at all sure that if someone gave me a dream room full of high end gear, I could make the recording of my own voice sound the way it does live, all by myself. A skilful engineer, on the other hand, would most likely succeed. So to me, analogue gear is moot without someone to run it - someone who has devoted his/her whole life to perfecting this art.

Unfortunately, that’s nonsense because there are notable differences between the sound of Analogue and Digital, and that has always been the trigger for the debate.  The debate is there because it’s a notable one.  Your take on it is understandable because you have no real interest in the production side of things - you’re a musician, not an engineer.

 

Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

A human being is central to human art. Not a cool machine. This is my philosophy.

Analogue is the human voice, digital is the synthetic android voice.  Only one of then sounds natural because only one of them is natural - that would be analogue - and is the same reason that real analogue synths sound better than digitally modeled simulations of analogue synths.


Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

So I’m working with my limited laughable gear (and equally laughable skills), not with any high hopes of becoming the next Hiili Hiilesmaa, but a) simply as part of my personal little journey to unattainable perfection; b) as a challenge, to make the best of what I have. If I ever get good enough to transcend my gear and software, then I’ll upgrade. But given that my life is full of wildly different stuff I love to do, I don’t know if it’s gonna happen any soon (tm).

Just my two cents.

Laughable gear has nothing to do with it.  If the gear you have allows you to do what you want, there’s nothing laughable about it whether it be analogue or digital.  Digital runs rings around analogue for convenience and affordability, but that’s the problem you see, because when it comes to actual sound quality (the part that actually matters), digital cannot hold up to analogue.  I don’t have anything like the amount of analogue gear I would like, but I was careful to buy the best of the range at the time.  It was a good move, because while my analogue multitrack/mixer cannot compete with one of those monster-sized analogue consoles, it can, as far as I’m concerned, wipe the floor with any high-end digital recording gear they have now.  The reason it can compete is simple, it’s because the gear is actual analogue, not digital.


Anyway,  no matter, I wasn’t debating this with you.  I just pointed out why I mention analogue so that you get why I do it, I’ve been doing it for a long time, even before this thread started, it wasn’t specifically directed at you.  Just ignore my mentions of analogue, because I will continue to do it where warranted.

 

Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

I finally found some early music tracks (searching by song name is easier than by the name of the artist). I’m not sure you (or anyone else in this thread) is going to like it, but this is my true love. The Troubadours. This is where all Western music of today and the majority of Western poetry started. It’s as simple as it gets, but that’s the beauty of it.

And I really couldn’t care less if there was any production involved apart from setting up a handful of mikes. ;P

The performers are the Ensemble Unicorn, Ensemble Oni Wytars and the late Maria Laffitte on the vocals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6RGLZos0fg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfCkmiQ0nDs

I thought these were more musical than the Norwegian one, but again, not what I’d listen to.

 

Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

Not that strange. Both types of folk music use microtones (an octave is twelve semitones, a semintone is the fundamental step in Western music, a microtone is a quartertone (half a semitone) or sometimes even less), but they use different scales. Man, it’s a pity you haven’t had formal music training, you’d shine.

Thanks for the compliment although I’m not sure what tracks gave you the impression I can do whatever it is you said I could do.  I know what microtones and semitones are. but only in a mathematical sense (and I hate maths).  I even forget them, I have a notebook when I work on plugins, something I refer to.


Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

Let’s see then what you think about Jani Lane‘s Warrant...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nINoinmQYU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFV8rWUlp3Y

Again, nope, does not trigger there receptors in my ears :-P

 

Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

Oh wow, thanks for the explanation! Looks like it’s used much like “gay” =)

i never thought of it like that, but yup, I suppose it could be used like that :-D


Test your sensitivity to “Girly” with this simple test of two possible scenarios:


A - “Here sweetie, listen to the song on my iPod, I got it off iTunes (ED: PUKES)
B - “Hey you, twat over there, get yer arse over here and check-out this Vinyl I ripped to my Walkman”.


The iPod sounds gay for mainly three reasons:


Reason 1: It means your’e a follower, not a rebel.
Reason 2: The Sony Walkman is the original personal audio device, not the iPod.
Reason 3: iPod is gay anyway.

 

Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

O.o He’s long dead. And he was a composer, not a musician.

Denis Matsuev, for instance, is a musician - a crazy brilliant piano player: his official playlist

Now if I could play like that I’d be a very happy man indeed, very nice.

 

Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

But I was wondering more about Russian pop artists. Some claim international success, but I have yet to verify it for any artist that is not T.a.T.u.

Nope, none other than TATU, but then again, Russia ought to be proud of such a powerhouse of hits.  TATU put out fantastic albums with virtually no “fillers” whatsoever!

 

Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

I thought the opening was awesome, there was only one thing I wasn’t too impressed with - the part with the mass dancing. I just can’t stand mass dancing. Actually mass anything.

Still catching up with BBC iPlayer (I’m not gay and it has nothing to do with iPods), so I’ve only seen a short amount of mass dancing so far.  But nope, I don’t like mass dancing either.  I’m in absolute shock that they even got “volunteers” from the NHS to work on that project.  They treat the doctors and nurses like shit.  Over worked, underpaid, and even force them to pay parking fees at the hospitals they actually work at (no kidding).

 

Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

Now I see. It’s just that in my own little world, outside of fantasy movies diamonds just don’t exist in any shape or form that would be different from that of technology diamonds =) So I’m not that bothered.

Me neither, but I reckon the face on Her Majesty would be classic if the huge diamonds in her humble collection of jewelry, suddenly became worthless due to some football-sized gem the Russians had pressed in packs of six.

 

Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

Thanks! I hope to have enough time to watch this episode ASAP.

I’ve watched it myself, and it was just like I remember it apart from it seemed a lot more colourful back then.  YouTube seems to be washing it out a fair bit.  But yup, please take a look, and even if the first few parts bore you a bit, keep at it, it’s not a bad episode.


Actually, it’s quite “lighthearted”, so I’m pretty sure you’ll like it.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 August 2012 11:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 116 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  416
Joined  2008-06-25

—-links first, discussion second—-

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

Your wish is my command, here’s one that starts off tame and really builds up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_znmFcLuuU


Ah, Lara Fabian. She’s very popular here and she’s surely excellent, but not exactly what I look for in a singer. She’s of that brand that seems to be more about sheer power than subtleties or colours. I have a hard time understanding the emotion in such voices. There’s that Dutch singer Floor Jansen - I adore her technique, she can go from an operatic soprano to some mean growling with anything in between, and she usually blends her “pop voice” with the operatic voice, so I really enjoy the technique and colours, but I just can’t seem to connect to her delivery, emotionally… Here´s a couple signature tracks from her time with After Forever (I’ll spare you the growling, both hers and the guys´ =) )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVng77cjDSE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjm4BrNAf6s


But I am somehow able to connect with the emotions in Anette Olzon‘s voice, even though she’s less of a powerhouse than Floor is. I especially like her out of Nightwish, even though that synth-happy soft rock/AOR her previous band Alyson Avenue used to play is not something I really enjoy. But I love the way she sings. Many colours and subtleties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZlNJnjnZiU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR3StMu5Z8o

And here’s her duet with Pekka Ansio Heino of Brother Firetribe - again, I tend to prefer his other, less AOR band Leverage, but this song is an exception, and I like the way their voices work together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU-F1iEXqJc

 

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

Nope, none other than TATU, but then again, Russia ought to be proud of such a powerhouse of hits.  TATU put out fantastic albums with virtually no “fillers” whatsoever!

Oh. I didn’t even know they had albums, I only knew of singles. I gotta check if they had albums released here. The ones you heard, were they in Russian or in English?

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

Self-taught here as well, and I falter a lot, to the extent I cannot even call myself a musician.

Well if you play an instrument, you’re a musician. If you make art, you’re an artist. If you write prose/verse, you’re a writer. These are facts.
And then we would get down to whether you’re a “good” or a “bad” artist. And this is hugely subjective…

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

Thanks for the compliment although I’m not sure what tracks gave you the impression I can do whatever it is you said I could do.  I know what microtones and semitones are. but only in a mathematical sense (and I hate maths).  I even forget them, I have a notebook when I work on plugins, something I refer to.

You see, your “uninformed” yet focused preference appears logically driven by certain tangible (not abstract) properties of music. The way you wrote about Värttinä and Indian singers makes sense. This is what makes me think that if you studied music theory (and liked maths), you’d be very good at it.

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

I’m an absolute prick when it comes to Classical Composers because while I respect those works immensely, I’m not really up on who did what.

I see. Just in case, if you ever take note of the title or the author of some piece you like, let me know. It will help paint the picture of your musical preference - I actually find it very intriguing because it’s so focused and so different from that of mine. I have this very broad appreciation of music, and my preference is not that coloured by actual tangible properties of said music (I can enjoy just about anything if it’s performed technically well, as you have probably noticed…) but by the context, by the artistic intent and other more abstract aspects. I know other people with focused preferences, but they are usually clearly defined: certain genres, techniques or sonic textures.

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM
Mustakettu85 - 31 July 2012 10:41 AM

O.o He’s long dead. And he was a composer, not a musician.

Denis Matsuev, for instance, is a musician - a crazy brilliant piano player: his official playlist

Now if I could play like that I’d be a very happy man indeed, very nice.

Cool… So you’re a keyboard player?

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

Your take on it is understandable because you have no real interest in the production side of things - you’re a musician, not an engineer.


It depends on your definition on “interest” =P Musicians are interested in having their records sound good. But the actual definition of “good” varies from person to person… Some are happy to just hand their tracks to an engineer and say “Surprise me”, and some are the engineer’s worst nightmare XD

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

Unfortunately, that’s nonsense because there are notable differences between the sound of Analogue and Digital, and that has always been the trigger for the debate. 
...
Analogue is the human voice, digital is the synthetic android voice.  Only one of then sounds natural because only one of them is natural - that would be analogue - and is the same reason that real analogue synths sound better than digitally modeled simulations of analogue synths.

No, no, I’m not saying there is no difference. There is. But what I mean is that it’s largely a matter of preference. Some people do want digital and realise perfectly it’s not “natural”. They just want the artificial. It’s their right, their stylistic choice, whatever. And sometimes digital is the logical choice.

You see, I come from the rock/acoustic side of things. So I’m not that concerned about synths. Look… When we’re going “classic/progressive rock”, a genuine Hammond organ or a minimoog is definitely better than an emulator plugin, but when we move into heavier styles like MDM/prog metal that would only use synths as ornamentation or, even for solo parts, laid over rock solid electric guitar riffs, - those synths are going to be EQ’d to death anyway in order to fit in the mix where the metal guitar is king. So they can very well be digital - they will be mutilated beyond all recognition anyhow (it’s also psychologically easier to mix the hell out of a plugin triggered by a MIDI track than out of a painstakingly recorded luxurious live instrument)

And those real luxurious live instruments include the Royals of a metal recording: the guitar and the drums. And to get them right, onto your tape or onto your hard disk, you need more than gear. First and foremost, you need The Room. The drums are acoustic by nature (not talking about electronic kits right now). And even the electric guitar largely is, too. If you don’t have The Room, you’re basically doomed.

...but here come the electronic kits, the triggers and little cute pieces of software that let you replace your crappy room sounds with professionally pre-recorded samples. It’s a whole ‘other can of worms, again; any atrocity like that done to live drums is a knife to my heart, but I’d rather not start a rant because well… Because for some people it’s the only way to get their drums sound better, and I accept it as their choice. Even though I LOVE real drums. Can’t say I like the way contemporary producers tend to handle them (yeah even the best drumkit in the best studio played by the best drummers… nothing is sacred these days!!!), anyway.

Oh my, I guess it was a rant anyway.


pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

Laughable gear has nothing to do with it.  If the gear you have allows you to do what you want, there’s nothing laughable about it whether it be analogue or digital.

In my case, it doesn´t exactly allow me to do what I want (or at least, not as easily and perfectly as I want, though surely my lack of skills matters, too). Though with the new interface I’m at least getting a signal-to-noise ratio instead of a noise-to-signal one =D Well anyway, doing what I do (like recording an acoustic guitar in a carpeted bedroom onto a laptop LOL) jumping through labyrinthine hoops is inevitable.
Lo-fi is a coveted sound in certain circles, though. This is my consolation LOL

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

Digital runs rings around analogue for convenience and affordability, but that’s the problem you see, because when it comes to actual sound quality (the part that actually matters), digital cannot hold up to analogue.

Quality beyond a certain threshold becomes subjective. You know what matters to me? Confidence. I’d love to get a good tube vocal preamp an’ stuff and basically move the whole vocal shebang to analogue because it would be awesome for my singing style. Would mean worrying much less about hitting the red zone. No latency issues. Pure perfection… Then, the issue of data corruption - if it’s on tape, it’s there unless a supermagnetic UFO flies past //the probability of which is pretty low//; if it’s on hard disk, anything may happen unless you take multiple precautions (reliability issues forced Blackie Lawless to go back to tape recording even though it’s pretty expensive even for him)
Some people maintain that the best thing for electric guitars is to record them to tape and then wait for bleeding to occur. This is probably true for signature classic rock sound, but I could do without it even if I lured the best guitarist in the world into my band - for stylistic reasons. Death metal guitars won´t notice these subtleties =)
What is great about analogue guitar amps and effects is that they define the real guitar sound, they let you push a lot of power through them and only sound better with that - and they don’t require the impossible processing power their digital emulators need to get a convincing sound if you record your guitars direct = no latency issues as well, no overload glitches. But to record electric guitars properly, I’d need not just to turn a room into The Room, but to buy a whole detached house so as not to scare the whole apartment block to death… This makes me very very sad ((((((((

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

Anyway,  no matter, I wasn’t debating this with you.  I just pointed out why I mention analogue so that you get why I do it, I’ve been doing it for a long time, even before this thread started, it wasn’t specifically directed at you.  Just ignore my mentions of analogue, because I will continue to do it where warranted.

I understand, it’s just that I need to get some of my own thoughts out too =) And maybe they will be somewhat interesting for you because we’re like on two different sides of the fence music genre-wise =)

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

A - “Here sweetie, listen to the song on my iPod, I got it off iTunes (ED: PUKES)
B - “Hey you, twat over there, get yer arse over here and check-out this Vinyl I ripped to my Walkman”.

...The iPod sounds gay for mainly three reasons…


I always have my Russian mp3 player assembled here from Korean parts with me, thank you very much =D And I would not shop at iTunes even if it were available in Russia - it rips the musicians off!!! the royalties are non-existent.

 

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

I’m in absolute shock that they even got “volunteers” from the NHS to work on that project.  They treat the doctors and nurses like shit.  Over worked, underpaid, and even force them to pay parking fees at the hospitals they actually work at (no kidding).

Unbelievably stupid of your government…

 

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

I reckon the face on Her Majesty would be classic if the huge diamonds in her humble collection of jewelry, suddenly became worthless due to some football-sized gem the Russians had pressed in packs of six.

LOL Now I wish such crystals were physically possible XD

 

pumeco - 02 August 2012 06:33 AM

Actually, it’s quite “lighthearted”, so I’m pretty sure you’ll like it.

I’ll let you know. Though I generally prefer my SF daaaaaaaark and aaaaaaangsty…

 Signature 

do your research before blaming 3Delight for shortcomings of your renders

dA gallery link in profile along with anything else you may need to know about me

my thread with freebies

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 August 2012 12:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 117 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  506
Joined  2004-06-12

What about the song? - I was looking forward to the dissection, did you miss my previous post?
I put a lot of thought into that, took me at least a day to think about it.


Maybe you thought it was so bad you dare not comment, you thought it was crap? :-P

Profile
 
 
Posted: 04 August 2012 06:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 118 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  416
Joined  2008-06-25
pumeco - 02 August 2012 12:30 PM

What about the song? - I was looking forward to the dissection, did you miss my previous post?
I put a lot of thought into that, took me at least a day to think about it.

I’m sorry, I’ve just seen the post!! Must have been some forum notification glitch…

The song is very pretty and has wonderful lyrics with a lovely spiritual message. I’ve never heard it before - who did it, BTW? - but I’ve seen the lyrics quoted here and there. And even though I’ve never heard it, it has that “instant familiarity” that is considered to form the basis of a “classic hit” - the chord progression is pleasantly recognisable yet is not really some tried and true I-IV-V, and the melody moves mostly in consonant intervals. It seems seventh chords are very important for the arrangement - I tend to think of them as “high fashion” because they’re used in many classic pop or jazz hits. Do you like jazz?

I’m also curious what that second song in your top would be =)

 

 Signature 

do your research before blaming 3Delight for shortcomings of your renders

dA gallery link in profile along with anything else you may need to know about me

my thread with freebies

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2012 08:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 119 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  254
Joined  2010-11-26

Oh wow… so many great links here… I guess It’ll take me a few days to sort through that, thanks Mustakettu85 for pointing me here smile

Somehow this thread inspired me to listen to some of my faves again… I don’t really know how to categorize them… Never been good at that smile Hmm… I admit I haven’t read all the sites yet and this might be linked already… but…

My Dying Bride (especially For my fallen Angel)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLmspcgrYrY

or the Wolfheart Album…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtbUPfhA18c


And for a less “heavy menu” how’s about Bands like Airbourne?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQBtVQ0TxWA

Might not really fit in here, but… heck they help when you’re cleaning up your flat *lol*

 Signature 

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.  ~Herm Albright

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 August 2012 09:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 120 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  506
Joined  2004-06-12
Mustakettu85 - 02 August 2012 11:54 AM

Ah, Lara Fabian. She’s very popular here and she’s surely excellent, but not exactly what I look for in a singer. She’s of that brand that seems to be more about sheer power than subtleties or colours. I have a hard time understanding the emotion in such voices. There’s that Dutch singer Floor Jansen - I adore her technique, she can go from an operatic soprano to some mean growling with anything in between, and she usually blends her “pop voice” with the operatic voice, so I really enjoy the technique and colours, but I just can’t seem to connect to her delivery, emotionally… Here´s a couple signature tracks from her time with After Forever (I’ll spare you the growling, both hers and the guys´ =) )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVng77cjDSE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjm4BrNAf6s


But I am somehow able to connect with the emotions in Anette Olzon‘s voice, even though she’s less of a powerhouse than Floor is. I especially like her out of Nightwish, even though that synth-happy soft rock/AOR her previous band Alyson Avenue used to play is not something I really enjoy. But I love the way she sings. Many colours and subtleties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZlNJnjnZiU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR3StMu5Z8o

And here’s her duet with Pekka Ansio Heino of Brother Firetribe - again, I tend to prefer his other, less AOR band Leverage, but this song is an exception, and I like the way their voices work together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU-F1iEXqJc

You probably know what I’m going to say before I even say it; I thought the best one was “Energize Me”.  It’s not what I’d listen to but I thought it was better than the others in that list.

 

Mustakettu85 - 02 August 2012 11:54 AM

Oh. I didn’t even know they had albums, I only knew of singles. I gotta check if they had albums released here. The ones you heard, were they in Russian or in English?

Both.  TATU almost always released in both Russian and English.  You need two albums to get both languages, but at least there’s a choice.  Some are better in English, some are better in Russian.

 

Mustakettu85 - 02 August 2012 11:54 AM

You see, your “uninformed” yet focused preference appears logically driven by certain tangible (not abstract) properties of music. The way you wrote about Värttinä and Indian singers makes sense. This is what makes me think that if you studied music theory (and liked maths), you’d be very good at it.

Again, thanks for the kind words, you just made my head swell!

 

Mustakettu85 - 02 August 2012 11:54 AM

I see. Just in case, if you ever take note of the title or the author of some piece you like, let me know. It will help paint the picture of your musical preference - I actually find it very intriguing because it’s so focused and so different from that of mine. I have this very broad appreciation of music, and my preference is not that coloured by actual tangible properties of said music (I can enjoy just about anything if it’s performed technically well, as you have probably noticed…) but by the context, by the artistic intent and other more abstract aspects. I know other people with focused preferences, but they are usually clearly defined: certain genres, techniques or sonic textures.

I’m ashamed I know so little about who’s who with the classical composers, especially, as I said, I do respect the music.  I went for a day out to York.  Browsing one of the shops I came across a huge collection of classical music, one of those really fancy-looking CD box collections.  It would have been the ideal way for me to dip my toes into the world of classical music, but it was quite pricey and I just didn’t have the cash for it at the time, and I’d often read about those cheaper efforts being no good for whatever reason.  Some day I will buy such a collection so that I can at least get past the stage where I’m at now, meaning I can’t put names to composers yet.


Unfortunately, early on, I used to see classical music as something posh people listen to and something my friends would laugh at.  I know, it’s a totally stupid thing to say, but that’s the way I used to think before I really got interested in music - and now I’m paying for it.  Nowadays I have a very different attitude towards things, but nevertheless, that is the main reason I know so little about classical music and who composed what.

 

Mustakettu85 - 02 August 2012 11:54 AM

Cool… So you’re a keyboard player?

I can press those long black and white things, and some noises come out.  I would be underestimating myself if I said I couldn’t play, because I can, a little.  But I can’t play in the way we’re supposed to play.  For example, I don’t hold the correct fingers over the correct keys, and because I’ve been doing it my own way for years and have picked up this bad habit, I think it would be very difficult for me to take tuition and do it the right way, it’s burnt into my mind now, I hit certain keys with the wrong fingers, been doing it since I was a kid.  The only consolation I have is that my playing technique allows me to do things a correctly taught person probably wouldn’t do, and I suppose sometimes it comes out nice and ‘different’.

 

Mustakettu85 - 02 August 2012 11:54 AM

It depends on your definition on “interest” =P Musicians are interested in having their records sound good. But the actual definition of “good” varies from person to person… Some are happy to just hand their tracks to an engineer and say “Surprise me”, and some are the engineer’s worst nightmare XD

And I can tell which one you fall under, Kettu, you’re the engineers worst nightmare (and a Russian version at that, even more scary) :-P

 

Mustakettu85 - 02 August 2012 11:54 AM

No, no, I’m not saying there is no difference. There is. But what I mean is that it’s largely a matter of preference. Some people do want digital and realise perfectly it’s not “natural”. They just want the artificial. It’s their right, their stylistic choice, whatever. And sometimes digital is the logical choice.

You see, I come from the rock/acoustic side of things. So I’m not that concerned about synths. Look… When we’re going “classic/progressive rock”, a genuine Hammond organ or a minimoog is definitely better than an emulator plugin, but when we move into heavier styles like MDM/prog metal that would only use synths as ornamentation or, even for solo parts, laid over rock solid electric guitar riffs, - those synths are going to be EQ’d to death anyway in order to fit in the mix where the metal guitar is king. So they can very well be digital - they will be mutilated beyond all recognition anyhow (it’s also psychologically easier to mix the hell out of a plugin triggered by a MIDI track than out of a painstakingly recorded luxurious live instrument)

And those real luxurious live instruments include the Royals of a metal recording: the guitar and the drums. And to get them right, onto your tape or onto your hard disk, you need more than gear. First and foremost, you need The Room. The drums are acoustic by nature (not talking about electronic kits right now). And even the electric guitar largely is, too. If you don’t have The Room, you’re basically doomed.

...but here come the electronic kits, the triggers and little cute pieces of software that let you replace your crappy room sounds with professionally pre-recorded samples. It’s a whole ‘other can of worms, again; any atrocity like that done to live drums is a knife to my heart, but I’d rather not start a rant because well… Because for some people it’s the only way to get their drums sound better, and I accept it as their choice. Even though I LOVE real drums. Can’t say I like the way contemporary producers tend to handle them (yeah even the best drumkit in the best studio played by the best drummers… nothing is sacred these days!!!), anyway.

Oh my, I guess it was a rant anyway.

I like reading such things, it’s not a rant to me, more an insight really.  You’re certainly way ahead of the average YouTube comment on the subject.  That said, you still fall under the category of someone who is aware of the debate but misunderstands it.  You have come to a lot of very sensible conclusions but don’t really grasp what it is the analogue guys are trying to get through to all the newcomers addicted to digital Pro-Tools consoles.  The analogue purists aren’t knocking digital, they’re simply trying to get through to those new people in the industry that the “high-end” is analogue, not digital.  A lot of the people who rant on YouTube, (even some from big studios), are newcomers and have never been anywhere near an analogue Neve console or whatever - they were brought up on Cubase and hard disk recording, not a monster analogue console with analogue compression and open-reel tape.  The fact is that digital is only ever good if you don’t want the qualities of natural audio - and I never saw the attraction in it.


This is what the true high-end studios use (analogue):
http://www.ams-neve.com/products/music/88-rs


And this is what studios that can’t afford the high-end use before they upgrade to analogue (digital):
http://www.avid.com/US/about-avid/customer-stories/RH-Factor-Streamlines-Its-Post-Flow-with-Pro-Tools-HD-Native-and-System-5


To that end, I’m most pleased to be able to say that the core of my humble setup is analogue - and forever it will remain so :-)

 

Mustakettu85 - 02 August 2012 11:54 AM

In my case, it doesn´t exactly allow me to do what I want (or at least, not as easily and perfectly as I want, though surely my lack of skills matters, too). Though with the new interface I’m at least getting a signal-to-noise ratio instead of a noise-to-signal one =D Well anyway, doing what I do (like recording an acoustic guitar in a carpeted bedroom onto a laptop LOL) jumping through labyrinthine hoops is inevitable.
Lo-fi is a coveted sound in certain circles, though. This is my consolation LOL

lol!!!

 

Mustakettu85 - 02 August 2012 11:54 AM

I’d love to get a good tube vocal preamp an’ stuff and basically move the whole vocal shebang to analogue because it would be awesome for my singing style. Would mean worrying much less about hitting the red zone. No latency issues. Pure perfection…

That’s more like it, now you’re sounding more like an analogue purist :-P
And I have to ask, so does this mean you have a website for your band, somewhere we can hear you play and sing?


Mustakettu85 - 02 August 2012 11:54 AM

I always have my Russian mp3 player assembled here from Korean parts with me, thank you very much =D And I would not shop at iTunes even if it were available in Russia - it rips the musicians off!!! the royalties are non-existent.

I didn’t even know Russia made MP3 players, sounds like the Russians made a deal with Samsung or something.  And it’s great to hear you would never buy a song from iTunes, me neither, not just because of the greed, but because I prefer physical media.  Some good news recently is that Vinyl sales are on the increase and the download bubble has already burst (it was only a matter of time until that happened).  Amazon recently started stocking vinyl in large quantity, they now have over 300.000 albums available and it’s growing all the time - masses of new releases in a constant stream now.  In 2012, HMV have also announced that they’re bringing back vinyl to the stores and intend to give them plenty of shop space (I’m guessing it’s finally hit them they need to fight this iTunes bullshit, and that stocking vinyl is the only way they will do it).


People caught in the Apple bubble are unaware of pages like this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vinyl-Albums-Music/b/ref=amb_link_164095247_26?ie=UTF8&node=520022


And news like this:
http://thequietus.com/articles/07738-hmv-to-stock-more-vinyl


Of course the only reason these measures have to be taken in the first place is because of the damage iTunes and other such crap has done to music retailers worldwide, and because our governments are incapable of dealing with industry and job threatening monopolies.

 

Mustakettu85 - 02 August 2012 11:54 AM

LOL Now I wish such crystals were physically possible XD

Well, if that program was anything to go by, they probably are - lol
BTW, I’ll reply to your post about the song later, just trying to find something :-)

Profile
 
 
   
8 of 12
8