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Commerical Products forum gone?
Posted: 06 February 2013 01:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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I know there are many upset and a lot of questions here. I am sorry the change has upset and affected some of you. I have my own small site as well so I know how this can and does effect that.

That said, DAZ3D has debated this for a very long time now. While I can understand feeling DAZ3D is “being selfish” please understand that is not the intent of this decision. The truth of the matter is that while others fill the forum here with information on sales from other sites, information on packs sold elsewhere, etc it is getting increasingly difficult for Artists selling here to be able to give information at the site they are actually selling on. While a merchant at another site has the opportunity to provide details, extra images, tutorials, etc at their store they sell at without the worry of those threads vanishing beneath a pile of others and also the ability to secondarily make the information available here, the vendors here do not.

For those that wondered if the vendors asked for this, the answer is no. They have always been gracious and understanding on this issue but at some point DAZ3D does need to look out for the best interests of it’s vendors.

For those that have smaller sites, I can completely empathize, I know personally the amount of work and time it takes and what goes into having one and the constraints you have to deal with as I too have a site I won’t be able to advertise here anymore. And I too feel the loss of not being able to post here and also don’t have “advertising” funds. There are other avenues open to you besides here though. I would highly suggest opening up a Facebook Group for your site as well as Twitter and possibly YouTube and also create a forum if you don’t have one as a way to keep in touch with your customers. I have found doing those things has actually helped me more then posting here does and will give you better avenues to both promote and build your business the way you want and by your own rules.

Again I am very sorry for these changes, it was delayed for years after other sites all ready made these sorts of changes, but DAZ3D has to consider the needs of those who have put their faith in them by selling here and sadly it has become necessary to ensure those selling here have the access, ability, and opportunity necessary to provide information and help to their customers.

On some of the questions, we will do our best to answer them all tomorrow as many are gone for the day (or in bed in many cases) which is where I am heading smile

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Posted: 06 February 2013 01:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Well, I think it has been a good community, and will continue to be one. Communities change, and change brings sadness at times, but change is also part of life.

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Posted: 06 February 2013 01:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Ann is always here to be warm and cuddly {hugs}

But I have a question: do we, as people of these forums, even able to discuss and link products from other sites? Not in any special threads, but as references and such in posts?

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Posted: 06 February 2013 02:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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I suppose this means among other things that we (the users) can’t make threads to compare or ask for opinions on products that are not sold at DAZ.

Does anybody happen to know any good independent forums? I know about CGSociety, but they tend to be a bit too elitist for my taste.

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Posted: 06 February 2013 02:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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araneldon - 06 February 2013 02:43 AM

I suppose this means among other things that we (the users) can’t make threads to compare or ask for opinions on products that are not sold at DAZ.

Does anybody happen to know any good independent forums? I know about CGSociety, but they tend to be a bit too elitist for my taste.

This is a good point. What can and cannot be posted regarding off site products? Part of linking, comparing and discussing other products is a big part of this community and its culture. I for one know that it will upset people if they ask for what was used in this render and we cannot reply because of this rule. There needs to be more clarity on this please…

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Posted: 06 February 2013 03:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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CGSociety, but tend to be a bit too elitist
That’s the under statement of the year.
Don’t go there and mention you’re use poser or daz as they eat me alive last time I was there.
and I haven’t been back since!

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Posted: 06 February 2013 03:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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It would have been nice if there had been some warning before the blanket deletions. Not really sure why a company which such a turnover as DAZ is worried about little independent sellers affecting their business. A number of these sellers also sold at Daz. This whole thing smacks as something that was hurriedly done rather than properly thought through.

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Posted: 06 February 2013 03:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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I guess the real question is if the forums are for the Daz PAs or the Daz customers. I find it hard to believe the Daz PAs are not able to get their products promoted both in the forums and the ever increasing promotion pages on the site. I think there should be room for information important to Daz customers…. an example is Reality…. there is a new version out and Daz customers should be able to discuss it here where we are in touch with each other. This is a really bad decision in my view… esp. when Daz customers have stuck with the forum thru all the instability of the past year.

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Posted: 06 February 2013 03:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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anikad - 06 February 2013 03:26 AM

It would have been nice if there had been some warning before the blanket deletions. Not really sure why a company which such a turnover as DAZ is worried about little independent sellers affecting their business. A number of these sellers also sold at Daz. This whole thing smacks as something that was hurriedly done rather than properly thought through.

You imply you know what their annual takings are though as far as I’m aware they’ve not been made public. The fact that other websites have done the same thing long ago shows that no, this was not hurriedly done, this is something that they’ve clearly put a lot of thought into and decided was best. I’ll admit, I do have concerns about what level of policing they’re going to be doing on this, as if it’s to the degree that we’re not even allowed to mention products sold on other sites, it would cause all kinds of trouble.

With their recent change to freebies as well, I’m guessing they’re starting to feel the pinch that the recession is putting on everyone. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that there were further changes planned in the near future to help stabilize the situation.

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Posted: 06 February 2013 03:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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I didn’t imply anything of the sort. I read on these forums that Daz has said that they have millions of customers. So one assumes that they have a large turnover, in comparison so a small trader who has say hundreds of customers.

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Posted: 06 February 2013 04:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Honestly, personal opinion aside, I think this is really just evolution. For a while it seemed as if it was hard to pin down what Daz was going to focus on as it evolved. Was it going to stay as a base content provider for outside programs (Zygote), was it going to be the “Digital Art Zone” and try to maintain as a store driven community (emphasis on community: IE, promoted art galleries, regular freebies, Tellware programing, small website community support- kinda Deviant Art in early days), was it going to be a software company with a focus on the development and sales of software / base packages exclusive to that software (DS4 Pro, Hexagon, Car, Bryce, 3rd party software promotions/resale), or was it going to focus on being an exclusive item reseller and utilize the PA/ outside source sales as a means for income and advancing? It’s hard to see any company surviving while being all of the above- the focus is too spread out, and there’s not a clear direction on where to go next (software manuals remain unfinished, customer support becomes spotty, keeping track of product becomes impossible, advertising becomes cluttered and confusing) . At some points in time, Daz has tried all of those pretty much- now it seems like it’s just going through another evolution and finding it’s direction for where they wish to be, rather then what they were.
When Daz was mainly providing base models, like Victoria 1-4, it needed a larger community to ‘feed’ usable products relying on and exclusively for those models in a short amount of time, and to drive the sale of those models from various outlets. It got them off the ground, and embedded in the 3d community very nicely. Now they just seem to be reining in a bit, and changing focus to in house / PA products to feed the new base models, so it makes sense, really, to tighten down the outsourcing when you can provide the same, or nearly the same products, while still making a profit for the company at your own site.
Edit: As an abstract, think MTV. Originally, it was for the promotion and advancement of musical artists who were working for other companies- record companies, entertainment companies, etc. Their entire focus was on the musical community, as a whole, and being able to make a profit from that outside source. As they developed their own programing and exclusive titles, they began to focus less on the outside, and more on the internal programing- promoting licensed materials, exclusive programing, regular shows, and drawing in products for themselves. It eventually evolved to the MTV of today, which is a far cry different then that of 1985, but no less successful or profitable. It evolved to what it wanted to be as the conditions around and inside of it changed.

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Posted: 06 February 2013 05:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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anikad - 06 February 2013 03:45 AM

I didn’t imply anything of the sort. I read on these forums that Daz has said that they have millions of customers. So one assumes that they have a large turnover, in comparison so a small trader who has say hundreds of customers.

It’s one thing to have a lot of customers, it’s quite another to have a large number of sales. Technically you’re still a customer even if you’ve just bought one item and a ton of freebies.

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Posted: 06 February 2013 05:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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1) I don’t buy the argument that a link to another site results in lost sales for DAZ.  After all, DAZ isn’t selling that product in the first place, so how can they lose sales for it?  I see this as more of a play for DAZ to get vendors to sell through them instead of one of the other webstores.  “Sell with us and you can post in our forums…”

2) Actual advertisement posts I never looked at, anyway.  The only thread that got wiped that I am sorry to see gone is the Reality thread, as that was more of a place for people to get questions about Reality & LuxRender answered than it was a promotional thread.  I suppose you could argue that this means DAZ was “subsidizing” support of Reality.  But DAZ actually benefits from that, since those people are also using Studio and it promotes Studio.

3) I find the notion that DAZ is “paying to support their competitors” is a joke as well.  Yes, they have to pay for bandwidth, but one subforum feeding small bits of text (as images would be coming from elsewhere anyway) is a drop in the ocean for the bandwidth DAZ consumes hosting their downloads/etc.

I’m not gonna get worked up over this, as like I said, I never looked at any of the advert threads anyway.  For that matter, I skip most of the advert threads from DAZ PAs as well.  But I do think this is ultimately a case of DAZ shooting themselves in the foot again.

The biggest concern I have is for the “can anyone identify this clothing/hair/etc” type posts.  When these are products that are sold through another website, what is going to happen to these posts?  Are they gonna get instawhacked as soon as someone responds with the answer, before the OP asking the question even gets to see the information about what they are searching for?  That will really hurt the usefulness of the forums.

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Posted: 06 February 2013 05:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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This is just another decision by Daz to try and solve a problem by addressing an issue that is not at the core of the real problem.  They’ve been doing it for many years and will most likely continue to do it for as long as they exist, alienating loyal customers along the way, adding to the real problem by piling on yet another unneeded restriction or deterrent.  More businesses die from making “wise business decisions” than from any other reason, because they let their business sense make them forget what made them successful in the first place.

I quit spending money here years ago for much the same reason, and this is just another indicator among all too many that my reason still applies.  It’s a shame, as I still admire the work of some of the vendors here, but until they go elsewhere to sell their goods, they won’t see any of my money.

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Posted: 06 February 2013 05:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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cwichura - 06 February 2013 05:16 AM

The biggest concern I have is for the “can anyone identify this clothing/hair/etc” type posts.  When these are products that are sold through another website, what is going to happen to these posts?  Are they gonna get instawhacked as soon as someone responds with the answer, before the OP asking the question even gets to see the information about what they are searching for?  That will really hurt the usefulness of the forums.

That’s my concern as well. The renewed TOS leaves this at a bit of a grey area since it doesn’t really specify that only commercials are banned. If you’re promoting a product belonging to another person, as a recommendation or whatever, does that come under fire? We could really use an official word on this one, as it’s my only major concern.

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