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@ DAZ install manager: Why was there a need to create a new “public” default installation location?
Posted: 08 February 2013 09:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 76 ]
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DavidGB - 08 February 2013 11:32 AM

There’s even that ridiculous video on using tthe Installmanager with existing content where he goes through showing you how to change the install location to the previous My Library, but on the last dialogue in the process then just says ‘but you shouldn’t use that’ and cancels with no further explanation.

I agree, this is downright ridiculous and should never have been left in what’s supposed to be an official DAZ tutorial. What comes next? Do we have to tune in next week for the further exciting adventures of the DIM Ranger…?

DavidGB - 08 February 2013 11:32 AM

3 And as for uninstalling hundreds and hundreds of DAZ products bought and installed over 8 or nine years, most installed without uninstallers, and many customized in both location and content since install ... you have to be joking.

This is the elephant in the room as far as I’m concerned, although there are others. I know a lot of people here have acclaimed DIM as the best thing to happen to D|S, and I agree it does seem to be excellent for beginners or people who don’t have a huge amount of content, or rely heavily on categories and/or the CMS. But how many old hands here have heavily customised content, whether just to make sense of the many weird and wonderful places things are put, or to make things work better with their workflow? I don’t use and don’t need categories, the CMS, Smart Content, etc, and the vast majority of my content isn’t as installed. Using the DIM will mean reverting to default everything, which would bring me (and how many others?) to a screeching halt. Constantly saying “try it, you’ll like it” doesn’t help.

One thing just occurred to me — we’re all being pushed (and pushed, and pushed…) to install and totally convert our entire content libraries to be under the control of… a beta program?

No way.

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Posted: 08 February 2013 09:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 77 ]
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SpottedKitty - 08 February 2013 09:35 PM
DavidGB - 08 February 2013 11:32 AM

There’s even that ridiculous video on using tthe Installmanager with existing content where he goes through showing you how to change the install location to the previous My Library, but on the last dialogue in the process then just says ‘but you shouldn’t use that’ and cancels with no further explanation.

I agree, this is downright ridiculous and should never have been left in what’s supposed to be an official DAZ tutorial. What comes next? Do we have to tune in next week for the further exciting adventures of the DIM Ranger…?

DavidGB - 08 February 2013 11:32 AM

3 And as for uninstalling hundreds and hundreds of DAZ products bought and installed over 8 or nine years, most installed without uninstallers, and many customized in both location and content since install ... you have to be joking.

This is the elephant in the room as far as I’m concerned, although there are others. I know a lot of people here have acclaimed DIM as the best thing to happen to D|S, and I agree it does seem to be excellent for beginners or people who don’t have a huge amount of content, or rely heavily on categories and/or the CMS. But how many old hands here have heavily customised content, whether just to make sense of the many weird and wonderful places things are put, or to make things work better with their workflow? I don’t use and don’t need categories, the CMS, Smart Content, etc, and the vast majority of my content isn’t as installed. Using the DIM will mean reverting to default everything, which would bring me (and how many others?) to a screeching halt. Constantly saying “try it, you’ll like it” doesn’t help.

One thing just occurred to me — we’re all being pushed (and pushed, and pushed…) to install and totally convert our entire content libraries to be under the control of… a beta program?

No way.

I think for those of us who have the situations you mention, the real use of this is to download things.  And I don’t honestly think it SHOULD be necessary.  Because the current downloading is such a disaster zone with things completely unorganized and with no way to quickly sort out what really needs downloading or has been updated, I feel we’re kind of being forced into using the DIM to at least download content.

I am thrilled that installers are now just zips, but would rather have been able to just download the zips in the same way we used to download the exes on the old site.  However, I am going to redownload everything in the zip format with DIM and make sure it thinks they’re still in the official download folder I’ve set.  Then at least it will tell me to redownload things that are actually updates (since you have to install things to be told they are really updates),  I have no intention of using DIM (beta or not) to install or convert anything.  I move and rename practically everything in my Poser Runtime. While I started off with DS4 using smart content, I’m finding it a pain in the rear since pretty much only things from Daz use it so I’ll be moving stuff around in my DS Runtime as well…...

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Posted: 08 February 2013 11:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 78 ]
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Alisa Uh-Lisa - 08 February 2013 09:59 PM

I am thrilled that installers are now just zips, but would rather have been able to just download the zips in the same way we used to download the exes on the old site.

You will, once Install Manager is available to everyone (except for products that are still being converted to zips, of course).  Given that with Install Manager I can click one box and download everything (or select a subset of everything using regular expressions, and have them removed from the download list automatically once they’ve been downloaded) as opposed to having to:
1) click a link for each individual product to reset it,
2) click a download link for each file,
3) manually keep track of any downloads that failed,
4) manually keep track of what I’ve downloaded and what I haven’t, and
5) not be automatically shown when something has been updated,
there’s no way I’d do it that way, even if I wasn’t going to use DIM to install them.

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Posted: 09 February 2013 12:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 79 ]
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fixmypcmike - 08 February 2013 11:17 PM
Alisa Uh-Lisa - 08 February 2013 09:59 PM

I am thrilled that installers are now just zips, but would rather have been able to just download the zips in the same way we used to download the exes on the old site.

You will, once Install Manager is available to everyone (except for products that are still being converted to zips, of course).  Given that with Install Manager I can click one box and download everything (or select a subset of everything using regular expressions, and have them removed from the download list automatically once they’ve been downloaded) as opposed to having to:
1) click a link for each individual product to reset it,
2) click a download link for each file,
3) manually keep track of any downloads that failed,
4) manually keep track of what I’ve downloaded and what I haven’t, and
5) not be automatically shown when something has been updated,
there’s no way I’d do it that way, even if I wasn’t going to use DIM to install them.

I understand your points, but it just seems to me that they could have changed the way the download links work on the site, too.  If I could see all of the products I’ve purchased on one page like we did on the old site, instead of only 50 at a time, and had a check box next to it so I could select the things I want to download, and then again have all the download options on one page, it would be a heck of a lot easier.  The stupid software they chose to run the site apparently doesn’t allow things to work right in so many ways, and this is just one.  Interestingly, I have no problems downloading things at RDNA or Renderosity or even CP,.  Works just fine without a program to do it.  If something’s updated, I get *gasp* an email from the site or vendor telling me it’s been updated.  Novel concept….

I’m using the DIM but it’s frankly a pain because I have to change the way I normally do things in order to use it and create a bunch of phony files to trick DIM into thinking they’re still in a folder and let me know what they are. All I’m saying is that if we want to be able to download things in a reasonable way, we are pretty much being forced into using the DIM.  I’d rather it just be an alternate option to another reasonable way of downloading and tracking things.

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Posted: 09 February 2013 03:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 80 ]
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adamr001 - 08 February 2013 09:34 PM

In order for the DAZ Install Manager to *know* you’ve installed something *AND* where that install is, it needs to re-preform the installation.  Since the format it understands requires the new ZIP file layout, it also has to be redownloaded.

Ack… nah! I don’t even have enough space on my HDs to manage such an act. Redownloading everything? OMG, no way! I stay with my hand styled runtime or does this tool allow specific placing? Like I want hair mat files as a subfolder of the matching hair folder? Or does it install into custom folders like Vehicles, Grass, Stone, Temples if they exist in the main Props category for example?

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Posted: 09 February 2013 05:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 81 ]
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Although I’m generally happy with DIM now, as its making life much easier having spent a day or do reorganizing my content, I still, (after trying all your advice about resetting, rescanning, restarting etc. the CM) have exactly 2 copies of all my characters??

I figured it out: The DIM had installed .dsf files as well as .duf of all my stuff, Once I deleted them All was well again.

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Posted: 09 February 2013 09:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 82 ]
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For those who are JUST using DIM to simplfy the zip downloading, and do not plan to install them using it, or who want to eliminate their old exe files from their computer and get the zips with DIM, a few things I did that might be useful.

DIM insists that you keep the .dsx and .zip files in the same folder they were downloaded to.  The .dsx file is tiny so that’s not a big deal.  By the way, you can open those with a text editor. 

However, the zips are another matter - they’re huge and maybe you either don’t want to keep them on the hard drive and prefer to burn them to cd or dvd, and/or move them elsewhere and/or rename them.  I figured out that DIM doesn’t care if the file is actually there, just a file with that name.

So, you can just create an new, empty zip file (in Windows, right click and pick new/compressed (zipped) folder). 
Move the original zip file to another folder.
Copy the file name from that original zip to your fake one.
Now your download folder only has a bunch of 1 kb files. 

edit - By the way, apparently the date of the dsx file tells DIM WHEN you downloaded it and it will use that to tell you if there’s an update.  It doesn’t look like you have to actually install the files at all to have DIM say there are updates.

I tested this by moving just the dsx files to another folder and reopening DIM - it alerted that they were updates AND put new dsx files into the folder.  I closed and opened DIM and it still said there were updates to those files.  I closed DIM, moved the original ones back to the folder (replacing the ones DIM just put there) and then reopened DIM.  It no longer said there were updates.
.

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Posted: 09 February 2013 09:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 83 ]
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There seems to be a persistent belief that DIM has to be used.  DIM is NOT mandatory for anyone.  If you don’t want to use it, then don’t even download it.  Just ignore it and any mention of DIM in the forums.  Continue on your merry old way and forget about it.

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Posted: 09 February 2013 10:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 84 ]
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AtticAnne - 09 February 2013 09:56 AM

There seems to be a persistent belief that DIM has to be used.  DIM is NOT mandatory for anyone.  If you don’t want to use it, then don’t even download it.  Just ignore it and any mention of DIM in the forums.  Continue on your merry old way and forget about it.

The problem is that the OLD way (ie from the old forums) doesn’t exist any more and there are issues that are not and likely will not be changed with the current way (as I mentioned a few posts ago).

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Posted: 09 February 2013 10:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 85 ]
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Again, I quite happily had DIM overwrite an existing install base.  I had about a dozen things that ended up with duplicates because they’d moved but it took all of 20 minutes to correct.

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Posted: 09 February 2013 01:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 86 ]
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Then I guess I don’t understand what the OLD way is.  We’ve had the new forums almost a year now.

I just manually downloaded Eastern Beauty from my Downloadable Products.  It was an exe file and I put it on my external drive with my other exes.  Then I custom installed it to My Library.  No problems.

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Posted: 09 February 2013 04:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 87 ]
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Alisa Uh-Lisa - 09 February 2013 09:52 AM

For those who are JUST using DIM to simplfy the zip downloading, and do not plan to install them using it, or who want to eliminate their old exe files from their computer and get the zips with DIM, a few things I did that might be useful.

DIM insists that you keep the .dsx and .zip files in the same folder they were downloaded to.  The .dsx file is tiny so that’s not a big deal.  By the way, you can open those with a text editor. 

However, the zips are another matter - they’re huge and maybe you either don’t want to keep them on the hard drive and prefer to burn them to cd or dvd, and/or move them elsewhere and/or rename them.  I figured out that DIM doesn’t care if the file is actually there, just a file with that name.

So, you can just create an new, empty zip file (in Windows, right click and pick new/compressed (zipped) folder). 
Move the original zip file to another folder.
Copy the file name from that original zip to your fake one.
Now your download folder only has a bunch of 1 kb files. 

edit - By the way, apparently the date of the dsx file tells DIM WHEN you downloaded it and it will use that to tell you if there’s an update.  It doesn’t look like you have to actually install the files at all to have DIM say there are updates.

I tested this by moving just the dsx files to another folder and reopening DIM - it alerted that they were updates AND put new dsx files into the folder.  I closed and opened DIM and it still said there were updates to those files.  I closed DIM, moved the original ones back to the folder (replacing the ones DIM just put there) and then reopened DIM.  It no longer said there were updates.
.

From what Spooky said earlier I believe that it the zip’s CRC (or similar) key that is used to identify updates, a number derived from the data in the file, not the timestamp. You don’t have to keep the zips, but you do need them (or the manifests generated by installing) to get update notifications.

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Posted: 09 February 2013 05:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 88 ]
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adamr001 - 08 February 2013 09:34 PM

In order for the DAZ Install Manager to *know* you’ve installed something *AND* where that install is, it needs to re-preform the installation.  Since the format it understands requires the new ZIP file layout, it also has to be re-downloaded.

It looks to me like you don’t have to re-download.  In the Installed tab there is a button to Uninstall and a pull-right menu to Delete the Installer.  These seem to be different operations.  Uninstall uninstalls the content but leaves the installer (the item goes to Ready to Install).  Deleting the installer leaves the content, but if you then uninstall the content, the item goes to Ready to Download (and has to be downloaded again).

Bottom line is that you can move things around and reorganize them fairly conveniently just using DIM.

This is based on experimentation, not documentation. I could always have made a mistake. wink

So far I like it, have lots of content in different places, and am not a beginner.  I’m in the process of reinstalling everything from scratch using DIM as Adam did.  I think that will be a good thing compared to the mess that has accumulated over the years.  Some things, like my own content or 3rd-party content, will have to be done manually, of course.  If you have manually moved files and directories in your content, it won’t reproduce that, also of course.  I’ve never done that much.

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Posted: 09 February 2013 05:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 89 ]
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Cypherfox - 01 February 2013 05:37 PM

Greetings,
Wait…the video about ‘integrate Install Manager with existing content installations? (MAC)’ doesn’t…actually…address the elephant in the room, which is whether it will work to point the install manager to the CURRENT directory that stuff is installed in.

Instead he cancels out of the process at that point, leaving me…unsure if it’d work, or if it’s not valid at all.

. . .

So…what DOES happen if we point it to our existing ‘My Library’ tree?

— Morgan

p.s. I suppose the answer may be “...dogs and cats living together… mass hysteria!”

Exactly what I want to know. The video is ambiguous. I’ve watched it three times. I think the guy is saying that NO, Mac users at least cannot install to the ~Documents/DAZ3D/Studio/My Library location because the DIM can ONLY install to an EMPTY FOLDER.

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Posted: 09 February 2013 05:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 90 ]
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What I’d like is a DIM (a future release, I hope) that will offer to read the content installed in ~Documents/DAZ3D/Studio/My Library [Macintosh] and, hopefully, would let me specify what content I wanted read, such as “Genesis.”

Obviously, I’d have to be logged in to the DAZ3D site at the same time. Fine. Then, I’d like the DIM to show me which files are newer than the ones I have. (The app would have to be able to check my account on the DADZ3D site in order to do this. ) The updated files may solve the Duplicate ID errors. If the DIM cold not uninstall the files I have on my computer, along with the metadata, OK. But, I’d like the DIM to be able to specify which files I should uninstall.

Next, if the DIM could not download and install the updated files to my ~Documents/DAZ3D/Studio/My Library location, I’d like it to at least be able to download the files. Then, I could install them.

I know the present DIM is limited to only being able to handle files it downloads and, also, files which it then installs. If I were to just download with the DIM, but install by myself, the DIM would not be able to keep track of those files. (At least, that’s my understanding thus far.)

I think this is unnecessarily primitive. I’m not trying to offend anyone who worked hard on the DIM. But, what I’m saying is that a new DIM needs to be written, one which can read the files on my computer, check with my account at DAZ3D, and indicate whenever there are updated files. Then, if all it can handle at that point is the download, not the installation, I’ll be satisfied. And, like some others, no, I do not want to have to install new files to the /Users/Shared folder [Macintosh].

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