Digital Art Zone

Update /Edit:
Added the new URL to the DAZ Install - Manager Fresh Start
Deleted the old URL to the removed video
seems it was updated.

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Before you write anything and keep reading please watch the following three videos first:

I watched them each two times to get over my initial shock.
Some questions were answered by watching them all twice.

DAZ Install Manager - New to 3D Content (for Windows users)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE5C5w4ha_M

DAZ Install Manager - Fresh Start (for Windows users)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhI-R1RTaZc

Edit: added link to updated Video

DAZ Install Manager - Add to Current System (for Windows users)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E4ft-bsPL0

There are also videos for mac users posted on the channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/WWWDAZ3DCOM

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I can live with the fact that I have to install all content again if I want to use the install manager to manage the content.

Allthough I am a bit frustrated at the moment to do it again since I spent november and december to reinstall all content and update / fix the metdata. But thats my personal problem. o.O

After watching the videos one very important question is open:

Why did DAZ deceide to introduce a new “public” location where all content now is installed by default?

Instead of

C:\Users\yourusername\Documents\DAZ 3D\Studio\My Library

it seems to be

C:\Users\Public\Documents\DAZ 3D\My DAZ 3D Library

To me it seems like a horrible idea to put my personal library of 3d content in a public folder.

Some examples:

Privacy matters:

- I do not want anyone else that logs on the pc to be able to mess around with my personal library of 3d content.
- If several persons use the same pc like kids and parents before it was possible that all had their own library with those models they purchased.
- Is the user of DAZ content not bound by the license to protect the content and not make it available to others?
Now everyone that logs on the pc has easy access to all content files on public and can copy everything?
- And what about personal data like scene files, my own presets should they also be moved to the public folder?
- And if not then the whole library is now split in two with the presets one created themself are in a different location then the ones purchased?

Content relying on paths?

- Is not some content relying on exact paths and references to work properly? Is using a different location not going to break some content?

Consequences for the metadata?

- Each user may have their own preferences to sort their content with metadata. How is this going to be possible if all installations are merged in one public folder?
- Is not all metadata going to be broken if the content is installed into a different location?

Was not the reason for many products released with broken metadata that the file path was changed before zipping up the files?
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There are quite some other questions open but those raised are the ones that need immediate attention to prevent me from freaking out completly.
I really hope this is all some kind of missunderstanding with the “public” default installation location.

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The screenshot is from one of the youtube videos and shows how you can merge the old and new paths.

An easy one to answer…the content used to be installed ‘system wide’.  With Vista, the preferred location became the user’s individual profile.  Of course, you could by using a custom install put it in the Public (All users) profile.  The content license is pretty much a ‘site’ license.  All this does is restore the old behavior of installing the content system wide.

mjc1016 - 01 February 2013 02:35 PM

An easy one to answer…the content used to be installed ‘system wide’.  With Vista, the preferred location became the user’s individual profile.  Of course, you could by using a custom install put it in the Public (All users) profile.  The content license is pretty much a ‘site’ license.

It is always good to know the history. That often helps to understand decisions.

But the decision to move the files to the public folder really seems like a big step backward.

Many software packages are working towards a cloud service that relies on your private and protected computer space.

Examples:
Adobe Cloud Service
Windows 8,
Icloud with Iphone, Imac,Itunes etc

The basic idea is that you have access to your files not matter what machine you use.
You can log into your profile and have remote access to your computer or to files located on a server.

This all requires that the files are located and protected in “your personal pc space” and not on a “public” portion of the computer that can be accessed by everyone that logs on to the workstation.

mjc1016 - 01 February 2013 02:35 PM

  All this does is restore the old behavior of installing the content system wide.

To me it seems that the default location were software is installed is a huge deal. Especially for software that uses content.
To just move around and switch that default location again really seems not such a great idea.

What is needed right now is some kind of consistency.
How many bug reports and forum posts have there been from users that had problems adapting to use the my library location that was introduced with DS4. And now that most people are used to that it is supposed to change again?

It is Windows that forced the change.  With Vista, they changed the default behavior of almost 20 yrs (18).  (Actually almost 25 yrs if you go back to DOS.)

But the content is licensed for the system, so it actually makes sense to, as a default, install it system wide…which is the way it used to be.  And no it isn’t really ‘public’.  The Public profile in Windows is the old ‘All Users’ profile.  It is still ‘local’ and under the full restrictions of the machine.  That was one of my big complaints about DS4…the license and the default install behavior did not agree.  Using the ‘Public’/‘All Users’ profile should have been done from the start., as that’s the proper location for installing something system wide.

And I suspect that there is also a practical side to this…UAE, security software, account restrictions and what not are probably easier to deal with using a default of the ‘All Users’ than individual user accounts.

And no, the content is NOT completely tied to a path.  A properly written dsf/duf file uses relative paths that use the default library locations as provided by DS itself as the ‘starting point’.  So, if the default path changes, then it’s no problem, as long as the content within that doesn’t change…so moving from My Library to My DAZ3d Library doesn’t really matter as long as what is within the two is still the same after the change and DS is aware of it.  There are more problems WITH hard coded paths than there are with files that have changed ‘default library’ locations.

Where do we find this “Install Manager?”

First: That is the default path, and as stated by mjc1016, better agrees with the EULA.
Second: While it is the default path, there is no requirement to use the default path, if for some reason that path does not suit.
Third: If a item of content is using absolute paths, it is broken, and needs to be reported in the bug tracker. All Content should be using relative paths.

Russ Sprouse - 01 February 2013 03:51 PM

Where do we find this “Install Manager?”

You still have to wait until it is actually released.

Thanks Spooky

DAZ has always permitted members of a household to share content - you don’t need a separate license for each family member who does 3D, at least as long as they are living at home.

When is this Install Manager coming out?  Anyone know?

I just got an email about PC members getting the DIM soon,  but I am no longer a PC member. 

When do the rest of us get this DIM? 

I may not be a PC member any more, but I did BUY DS4 Pro… 

I’ve been waiting for this to install DS4 on my new hard drive!!

Greetings,
Wait…the video about ‘integrate Install Manager with existing content installations? (MAC)’ doesn’t…actually…address the elephant in the room, which is whether it will work to point the install manager to the CURRENT directory that stuff is installed in.

Instead he cancels out of the process at that point, leaving me…unsure if it’d work, or if it’s not valid at all.

See, I’m not like some who have TB of stuff, but I do have about 100G of content.  Some of it is free stuff, some of it is from other places, but it’s all installed to my single ‘My Library’ content tree.

If I download updates or reset downloads for items, it’s going to duplicate them if I add a second content tree that ends up having the same stuff.

So…what DOES happen if we point it to our existing ‘My Library’ tree?

— Morgan

p.s. I suppose the answer may be “...dogs and cats living together… mass hysteria!”

DAZ_Spooky - 01 February 2013 03:57 PM

First: That is the default path, and as stated by mjc1016, better agrees with the EULA.
Second: While it is the default path, there is no requirement to use the default path, if for some reason that path does not suit.
Third: If a item of content is using absolute paths, it is broken, and needs to be reported in the bug tracker. All Content should be using relative paths.

Thank you all for your quick replies and mentioning the relative paths and the option to choose other paths if needed.

Can someone share if the DAZ Install manager will feature some kind of tools to make the reinstallation of all metadata easier?

In my last reinstallations the metadata was the biggest issue.
The tutorials from Adam helped a lot.

I manually exported the .dsx files to /runtime/support and make backups of those.
I also make backup of the content databases in
C:\ProgramData\DAZ 3D\Content Management Service\databases

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The two biggest problems with metadata reinstallation were:

Issue one:

- The user has to go to the Product library and use the Content DB Editor from each Product folder to export the .dsx files.

It would be easier if there was some kind of batch export that processes all products and writes the .dsx files to runtime/support with the click of just one button.

That functionallity could be added in the “Content DB maintenance” as “Export metadata”.

(Basically the sister option to “content DB maintenance” “Re-import metadata”
On an additional note: Exporting the “User Data” is not an alternative when metadata on a product level is needed that can be installed and uninstalled individually.

Before reinstalling content a backup can be made of all updated files in /runtime/support and those can be re-imported later.

Issue two:

“Content DB Maintenance” “Re-import metadata” is very unreliable and not user friendly to navigate.

- By processing huge queues of metadata a lot of data is skipped randomly.

The cause of the data loss when processing huge metadata import queues should be found and resolved.

- A search field in the “Re-import metadata” window would speed up the process of selecting the metadata files needed to reimport.

If one could enter the Product ID or name it would be easier to find the product and place a checkmark. With about 500 products installed it becomes very slow to scroll up and down.

My work around was to place the .dsa files in C:\Users\yourusername\AppData\Roaming\DAZ 3D\Studio4\RunOnce so the .dsx files were processed at startup. But this seems also more complicated than being able to quickly search the “Re-import Metadata” dialogue.

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Guess that is all that I can add for now. I hope some of this issues can be fixed before or with the introduction of the DAZ Installation Manager.

I invested two months of my life to set up my current runtime and create custom metadata for all my content.
I am willing to reinstall my content again in order to manage my content with the DAZ Installation Manager in the future but I really hope that this process is made as user friendly as possible and I do not again loose any data in the process.

I haven’t watched the videos yet, I’m hoping someone can confirm for me if it is still possible to use an external hard drive for your content folder. If I’ve read Spooky’s post correctly I think I can, if I can’t I’m not going to be interested in using it and can’t see a point in watching videos on something I won’t be using.

I’m hoping that I have read it correctly and you can use an external hard drive. Can someone please confirm this?

Thanks

Pen

I’ve absolutely ZERO interest in this, because I want to control what and where all my content goes. 

So my question is this - is there any plan to fix the download mess that’s been in existence since the new site started, where we can’t select JUST windows or JUST mac stuff, and where finding something to redownload is a bit of a challenge?  Or is this new shiny toy going to mean “use it or tough luck”?

yes indeed,i think i keep my hands away form this feature.
i install manually since years and i know exactly where my folders are and i have my runtimes structured the way i want and i dont have any file conflicts,i keep mine the way it is.

and i do hope we still have the option of not using the dim once it is out in the open.otherwise bye bye daz.i get¡ tired of playing games really.

Pendraia - 01 February 2013 08:09 PM

I haven’t watched the videos yet, I’m hoping someone can confirm for me if it is still possible to use an external hard drive for your content folder. If I’ve read Spooky’s post correctly I think I can, if I can’t I’m not going to be interested in using it and can’t see a point in watching videos on something I won’t be using.

I’m hoping that I have read it correctly and you can use an external hard drive. Can someone please confirm this?

Thanks

Pen

you are just like me.when having a huge content i want to know where my content is and i dont let any managing feature interfering.

i know exactly on what computer is what file (more or less) and i have myself 3 workstations 2 laptops and my wife has her own machine of course. and i install all manually and always custom installation never use default (recommended)option.

i usually change my pc every two years (yes i am crazy lol) and i never lost a single file that way.
i just take my harddisk with the runtime build it in in the new pc (or clone it onto another drive)build it in and point in the daz preferences to the specific location of the folder.
that way when i start daz the content shows up.

ok i love an leave you for now (lol.

Alisa Uh-Lisa - 01 February 2013 08:24 PM

I’ve absolutely ZERO interest in this, because I want to control what and where all my content goes. 

So my question is this - is there any plan to fix the download mess that’s been in existence since the new site started, where we can’t select JUST windows or JUST mac stuff, and where finding something to redownload is a bit of a challenge?  Or is this new shiny toy going to mean “use it or tough luck”?