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Rendering with Multiple Cores
Posted: 01 February 2013 07:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Ok… it’s time to finally post this writeup for once.  I’ve typed up my thoughts on the final renderer a dozen times, but never posted it.

Carrara is written in what I like to call “Academically Correct C++”:  it is PAINFULLY object-oriented.

If you aren’t used to the concept, think of everything as a puppy that has learned some tricks: they don’t always behave, but whatever they DO do, they do on their own.  So in Carrara: things that can be rendered know a trick called “ShadeAndLight2”.  But even then, the item only knows so much - it depends on its shader to do much of the real work.  “Top Level” shaders (surely you’ve seen that warning?) ALSO implement “ShadeAndLight2”, and the renderable instance defers most if not all of its work to the shader.

So, the “final renderer” is little more than a manager: iterating over the available renderable objects, lights, backgrounds, atmospheres, and cameras - askeing each one to prepare its own little bit of the image and compositing the lot together.  It does not actually perform the calculations that are the heart of the entire process.

But none of that is the part you are asking about.  That is the very simple item called “I3DRenderHelper” that handles all threading and bucket (also known as “tile”) management.  It has an unfortunate line in the SDK documentation:

“You cannot implement your own RenderHelper.”

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Posted: 02 February 2013 06:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Fenric - 01 February 2013 07:35 PM

Carrara is written in what I like to call “Academically Correct C++”:  it is PAINFULLY object-oriented.

I kinda thought it would be something like this. I figure it is to ease portability between Mac and PC.

Fenric - 01 February 2013 07:35 PM

“You cannot implement your own RenderHelper.”

Well that pretty much slams the vault door on the idea…

From what you described though, it sounds like DAZ could serious benefit from some hardcore code profiling and refactoring. Is it just me or did a cool breeze blow through my personal suite in Hades? smirk

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Posted: 02 February 2013 11:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Carrara does render pretty quick, at least.

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Posted: 03 February 2013 01:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Garstor - 02 February 2013 06:50 AM

From what you described though, it sounds like DAZ could serious benefit from some hardcore code profiling and refactoring. Is it just me or did a cool breeze blow through my personal suite in Hades? smirk

Well, to be honest, except for a bit of bug fixing and making Carrara more friendly to premade Poser/DAZ Studio style content, Cararra hasn’t changed a great deal since DAZ acquired it.

Has always been a bit frustrating for long term Carrara fans that there hasn’t been more ongoing new development. We had the big change with dynamic hair and physics, but that’s a few years ago now. Nothing even close to the yearly (or twice yearly) updates that most of Autodesk’s products get.

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Posted: 03 February 2013 01:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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JonnyRay - 03 February 2013 01:08 PM

Nothing even close to the yearly (or twice yearly) updates that most of Autodesk’s products get.

On that happy note, I think I’ll go download my LightWave 11.5 update. cool smile

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Posted: 03 February 2013 01:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Garstor - 03 February 2013 01:14 PM
JonnyRay - 03 February 2013 01:08 PM

Nothing even close to the yearly (or twice yearly) updates that most of Autodesk’s products get.

On that happy note, I think I’ll go download my LightWave 11.5 update. cool smile

OMG is THAT ever funny!
I better go do something fun for a while. Yeah. Cuz’ adding Dynamic hair is nothing to do. It’s simple. Anyone can do it. But who Did it? Daz3d. Who rewrote everything to make this work in 64 bit? Oh but that’s another easy task, isn’t it? But who?
Daz3d.
God Rays, anyone? Or how about multi-pass rendering, UV unfolding, SubD enhancements in the vert modeler? Oh… and let’s not forget the ability to use Normal Maps… you don’t ever do that, do you? NLA is one of the sweetest things and animator can have. But that’s no real improvement. How about being able to view OpenGL over 128x128, or the ability to select more than one item at a time? And now, I suppose all of this work towards compatibility that they’ve endlessly slaved over every day with fingers blazing across plastic keys is just all wasted time because they don’t want to improve anything?
Drives me nuts when people bad-talk Pierre and his dedicated crew. NUTS! Those guys are the biggest reason Carrara still sells today.

Excuse me ... I have to go tear something apart with my bare hands

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Posted: 03 February 2013 01:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Dartanbeck - 03 February 2013 01:39 PM

Excuse me ... I have to go tear something apart with my bare hands

Didn’t mean to zap that nerve with 50,000 volts Dart… ohh

I’m trying to use both Carrara and LightWave together. To be sure; there is one big thing Carrara does that I don’t see (maybe its hidden) LW doing…exporting a UV map as PSD so you can create/edit textures.

Feel better? Here’s some virtual hot cocoa with mini-marshmellows to take the edge of the Wisconsin winter… wink

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Posted: 03 February 2013 02:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Sorry,
I shouldn’t get so worked up over words that come from the same mouth that thinks, for some crazy notion, that Stefan Morel’s use of displacement over polygons is somehow not right. We all know that there is a bit of Map work to do with Poser products in Carrara. Many products come equipped with displacement maps. they are very easy to tweak and work with! When Stonemason clips his pinky nail, more talent just fell into the garbage than…
<yells back to the woman behind him> “Sorry Rosie… you’re absolutely right!”
Okay… I came to apologize for rude behavior, not embellish it. I’m sorry for blowing up. If you’ll excuse me, I have to take my Wife to town now.

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Posted: 03 February 2013 02:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Fenric - 01 February 2013 07:35 PM

Ok… it’s time to finally post this writeup for once.  I’ve typed up my thoughts on the final renderer a dozen times, but never posted it.

Fenric, you ROCK!
I’m glad you like making plugins. My Carrara is probably different that some others simply because of them. Edit > Fenric is a great habit to acquire, and something as simple as making a simple pz2 from within Carrara made my life so much easier. Just wanted to thank you for all of your work.

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Posted: 03 February 2013 02:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Dartanbeck - 03 February 2013 01:39 PM

Drives me nuts when people bad-talk Pierre and his dedicated crew. NUTS! Those guys are the biggest reason Carrara still sells today.

Excuse me ... I have to go tear something apart with my bare hands

I think people just don’t know. It would be helpful if you did mention their names from time to time as the regular ass-uming folks always speculate there aren’t any Carrara developers. I know they are shared with DAZ’s other work, but there are people who are very knowledgable about the program working on it.

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Posted: 03 February 2013 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Dartanbeck - 03 February 2013 02:05 PM

Okay… I came to apologize for rude behavior, not embellish it. I’m sorry for blowing up. If you’ll excuse me, I have to take my Wife to town now.

Now I’m just confused…that ire couldn’t have been (intentionally) directed at me because I have no idea what you are talking about now! smile

Enjoy the afternoon out…I think I’ll take a quick outside break myself…

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Posted: 03 February 2013 05:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Garstor - 03 February 2013 02:32 PM
Dartanbeck - 03 February 2013 02:05 PM

Okay… I came to apologize for rude behavior, not embellish it. I’m sorry for blowing up. If you’ll excuse me, I have to take my Wife to town now.

Now I’m just confused…that ire couldn’t have been (intentionally) directed at me because I have no idea what you are talking about now! smile

Enjoy the afternoon out…I think I’ll take a quick outside break myself…

No no… It was that inner quote. And I apologize, Johnny, I shouldn’t get so emotional at my poor keyboard. It’s just that, the other day you were ripping on Stonemason, and now the developers at Daz3d? I’m sorry but I’ll defend all in question with my life - if I ever had to.
Are you kidding? You never ever bring the beast out in me, Garstor. We’re bro’s in crime… well… without the crime part! wink

Kevin Sanderson - 03 February 2013 02:18 PM

I think people just don’t know. It would be helpful if you did mention their names from time to time as the regular ass-uming folks always speculate there aren’t any Carrara developers. I know they are shared with DAZ’s other work, but there are people who are very knowledgable about the program working on it.

Knowledgeable, caring, interested in what we want our software to be capable of, friendly, very cool and their big mission in life is to please us, the users. I cannot always remember their names - but there are several of them. They are all so incredibly intelligent - which, of course, is the minimum requirement to get assigned to such a duty.
Edit
Oh… and they work very hard. Being a mason, I know what hard work is all about. These are those kind of people. Daz3d has them there for us. The whole of Daz3d - from those who answer the phone (who also pull their duty to have to please us) to the web administrators, volunteers, designers, etc., to the corporate offices and developers suites - are all passionate about the CUSTOMER’s SATISFACTION through QUALITY OF SERVICE AND THE PRODUCTS/SERVICES AVAILABLE AT DAZ3D!

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Posted: 03 February 2013 05:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Dartanbeck - 03 February 2013 05:32 PM

I’m sorry but I’ll defend all in question with my life - if I ever had to.

I always get a buzz off your enthusiasm! It’s even better than my precious Tim Horton’s coffee in the morning. smile

Dartanbeck - 03 February 2013 05:32 PM

Are you kidding? You never ever bring the beast out in me, Garstor. We’re bro’s in crime… well… without the crime part! wink

Well, we’re not telling anyone about the crime part…are we? ARE WE?!?!?! tongue wink

Dartanbeck - 03 February 2013 05:32 PM

Oh… and they work very hard. Being a mason, I know what hard work is all about.

Now I have a vision of you hurling ornamental boulders around. Dartanbeck SMASH! LOL

Hey, coding is tough work. I link to tinker with it, but every time I tried it “for real” I always turned out trash. Having once had viewing rights to the SQL Server source code; I am fully aware how spectacularly complicated major apps can be. Daz needs to do it twice…once for the PC and then again for the Mac.

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Posted: 03 February 2013 06:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Yeah, yeah…
I know these guys are tough! They really did some great stuff with Carrara since they’ve graced it with their expertise!
As for the boulders part, I really do move them by hand as much as possible to avoid scratching them. Many people wish they could lift like Dartanbeck without getting hurt - or dead! I am an animal on the job!
Last week, when I was wheeling concrete into that basement, the other guys though I was nuts when I filled my first wheelbarrow full. I did that all day long, often butting in front of them (mainly to give ‘em a little break) at the concrete truck. I AM an animal at work! And I love it! Makes the veins stick out!

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Posted: 04 February 2013 01:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Dartanbeck - 03 February 2013 05:32 PM

And I apologize, Johnny, I shouldn’t get so emotional at my poor keyboard. It’s just that, the other day you were ripping on Stonemason, and now the developers at Daz3d? I’m sorry but I’ll defend all in question with my life - if I ever had to.
Are you kidding? You never ever bring the beast out in me, Garstor. We’re bro’s in crime… well… without the crime part! wink

No need to apologize, but it does seem like maybe you’re a bit confused about some of my recent posts / comments.

First, I don’t think I’ve ever been critical of Stefan / Stonemason. I own pretty much everything he’s ever made. I’m actually in awe of him and his skill. To be honest, I’m a bit confused about what comment I made which may have been interpreted of being critical of him and his products.

Second, my grief has never been with the developers at DAZ over anything. Even before most software became free, it’s always been my standpoint that DAZ software provides the best value for the money by far. Carrara is a great example of this. The features it provides at the price point that DAZ makes it available is amazing.

My main thing when it comes to Carrara in particular hasn’t been with the skills or abilities of the development team, it’s been the level of focus and investment that DAZ as a company has been putting into the product. I just went and looked at my account history. I paid for my upgrade to 6.1 in 2008, I skipped version 7 because there wasn’t enough in it to make me want to do the upgrade, then I went to 8.0 February of 2011.

That’s 2 years without any significant changes. As Stan mentioned in another thread, 8.5 has been in beta now for 1.5 years or so. That shows a lack of focus at the corporate level on this piece of software. It has nothing to do with the abilities of the developers or the quality of what they produce, it’s a matter of the level of investment in the package.

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