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Bot for Genesis problems
Posted: 30 March 2013 04:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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Parris - 30 March 2013 01:38 PM

This will likely utilize dual material surface shaders so that transitions are not limited by imperfect polygon loops

Please keep in mind that tricks with 3Delight shaders will probably be useless in other rendering engines.  I do all my rendering with LuxRender, for example.

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Posted: 30 March 2013 04:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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cwichura - 30 March 2013 04:05 PM
Parris - 30 March 2013 01:38 PM

This will likely utilize dual material surface shaders so that transitions are not limited by imperfect polygon loops

Please keep in mind that tricks with 3Delight shaders will probably be useless in other rendering engines.  I do all my rendering with LuxRender, for example.

LuxRender is more than capable of using layered materials.

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Posted: 30 March 2013 04:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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True, but most users won’t have a clue how to convert a Shader Mixer network into the required mix materials for Lux.

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Posted: 30 March 2013 07:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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Agent_Unawares - 30 March 2013 04:15 PM
cwichura - 30 March 2013 04:05 PM
Parris - 30 March 2013 01:38 PM

This will likely utilize dual material surface shaders so that transitions are not limited by imperfect polygon loops

Please keep in mind that tricks with 3Delight shaders will probably be useless in other rendering engines.  I do all my rendering with LuxRender, for example.

LuxRender is more than capable of using layered materials.

Cwichura, I’m going to provide Poser materials, but what do you see as being the remedy for Lux users? If you’re asking me to provide shaders for Lux, then what about Bryce, Carrara, Vue, etc. Like I said before, there are limits to what the technology will allow and to what will be worthwhile to provide additional support for. I’d like to help out beginners if I can, but once you leave the native app, it’s fairly common in 3D community recognition that you will need to modify your shaders to suit your rendering engine (and like you said that’s fairly advanced). I think the most obvious workaround would be for users of other render engines or apps to apply basic shaders like the ones I have already included before leaving DS. So I can at least see where this could be another helpful note in the Readme or a PDF tutorial. But I don’t know if it will be practical for me to provide support for renderers beyond 3delight and Firefly (though I’m still open to listening to suggestions at least).

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Posted: 30 March 2013 07:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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I wasn’t expecting a conversion of shaders.  But to the extent that borders can be done with things like separate material zones, rather than blending tricks in a shader, that will make it a lot easier for folks using other rendering engines to use.  That’s all I was trying to point out.

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Posted: 30 March 2013 08:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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cwichura - 30 March 2013 07:58 PM

I wasn’t expecting a conversion of shaders.  But to the extent that borders can be done with things like separate material zones, rather than blending tricks in a shader, that will make it a lot easier for folks using other rendering engines to use.  That’s all I was trying to point out.

Very good. I get you. It’s just that in the case of material zones, you are a slave to the poly loops. I could create a separate set of models, with different material zones so that you have the option of being all flesh or all metal or whatever (like what currently exists in the product) and then another set with logical breaks in material zones for the flesh meets metal effect. That’s going to create an unpredictable edge when different morphs are applied but maybe that would look OK. I’d have to try it and see if it looked good enough. Creatively though, I was thinking how cool it would be if metal faded into flesh like circuits becoming veins and then falling beneath the skins surface. Another idea I had would be other transition elements like subtle bolts or clamps or just a realistic but clean meeting of the two edges with displacement.

In any case I think your point is valid and worth considering. Thank you!

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Posted: 01 April 2013 07:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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Just a small plug…  I posted a close-up of BotGenesis rendered in LuxRender over on deviantART, where the humanoid head on bot body that I was pointing out with the earlier material zones screenshot can be seen.  The full scene the close-up is taken from is Cryo Cargo Inspection.

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Posted: 25 April 2013 12:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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cwichura - 01 April 2013 07:09 PM

Just a small plug…  I posted a close-up of BotGenesis rendered in LuxRender over on deviantART, where the humanoid head on bot body that I was pointing out with the earlier material zones screenshot can be seen.  The full scene the close-up is taken from is Cryo Cargo Inspection.

Can you share some tips on how you made her look like that in reality? My chrome reflections and etc. are not working at all with bot genesis in Reality, the color is all dull (almost black, like realities youtube video on “no more black eyes”. I’ve been trying for hours to get her to look right. My render is of her backside, normal looking girl but showing off the cyborg spine and a hand.

**edit**
I forgot to mention that everything looks great with the normal DS rendering engine, just not with Reality 2.5.

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Posted: 25 April 2013 04:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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I see you started a thread about this over in the Reality forums with sample images of what you’re getting.  (http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?78157-Bot-Genesis)  I will answer over there once I get into work and can pull up the scene file to verify settings I used.

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Posted: 25 April 2013 05:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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Thanks cwichura! I’m sub’d on both for email notifications. grin I wasn’t sure which forum was the best place to post.

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Posted: 05 May 2013 03:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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Someone have this issue with the new beta version of Daz?

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Posted: 05 May 2013 04:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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Yeah, but I think it still renders OK. I would put a ticket in though.

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Posted: 05 May 2013 05:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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Ouch :( doesn’t look as bad as Carrara 8.5 though.

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Posted: 05 May 2013 06:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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Male-M3dia - 05 May 2013 04:10 PM

Yeah, but I think it still renders OK. I would put a ticket in though.

you’re right, it renders ok, the issue is only on viewport.

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Posted: 16 May 2013 01:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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zilvergrafix - 05 May 2013 06:39 PM
Male-M3dia - 05 May 2013 04:10 PM

Yeah, but I think it still renders OK. I would put a ticket in though.

you’re right, it renders ok, the issue is only on viewport.

It has to do with the new options for SubD, I believe. The normals of the inside end caps of my mechanical elbows point inwards (by mistake) and the new DS doesn’t like that. I’m finishing up an update to Bot Genesis this week and the fix is included in that update. If you don’t want to wait for the update, read on…

The developers of DS are aware of this issue, so I don’t think you need to file a ticket. DS 4.6 Pro now has a feature to deal with models that may have their poly normals pointing inward called Reverse Winding Order:

Select the figure or model that you want to fix. Activate the Polygon Group Editor Tool and use one of many selection methods to select the polys that you want to effect. In the case of my elbow caps, you will want to hide Genesis (click eye to the left of Genesis in the Scene tab) so you can more easily see the bot elbow parts. Next select the elbow figure in the Scene tab, then right click in the viewport and select Polygon Selection > Select > Surfaces > hole. Now the problem polys should all be selected. Now right click in the viewport again and navigate to Polygon Editing > Reverse Winding Order to apply the fix. No idea why they call it that; 3D Modelers are more familiar with the term “Reverse Normals” as it is called in most 3D apps I know of.

Ok, now you have the elbow figures fixed so then what? If you want to have them load correctly in the future (before my update comes out), then the best thing might be to save each figure out as an asset. Then you can delete the asset DUF and thumbnail but my original wearables will now load correctly. It’s a bit more tricky but here’s how to do all that (follow at your own risk) for the right elbow:

With the right elbow figure still selected in the Scene tab, choose File > Save As > Support Asset > Figure/Prop Assets… and in the Filtered Save dialog, navigate to where the product’s wearables are. Paths may vary slightly but on my PC this would be: C:\Users\YourUsername\My Documents\DAZ 3D\Studio\My Library\People\Genesis\Clothing\Bot Genesis. Name the file something like rElbow_Asset.duf and hit Save. Now you get the Figure/Prop Assets save Options dialog. Asset Directory should be the one ending with My Library; Vendor Name:Parris, Product Name: Bot Genesis, Item Name: Bot Right Forearm. You should be able to leave other settings in this dialog as is. So if that all looks correct then hit Accept. What this will do is save out a new asset but also update the corresponding DSF (where the geometry info gets written) in the data folder. The DSF file that should get updated when you save in this case would be C:\Users\YourUsername\My Documents\DAZ 3D\Studio\My Library\data\Parris\Bot Genesis\Bot Right Forearm\Bot_Gen_rElbow.dsf. So after saving, you can delete rElbow_Asset.duf and rElbow_Asset.duf.png from the folder and just load the original wearable. for the left elbow do the same but take care to name the file you save as lElbow_Asset.duf and use Bot Left Forearm for the Item Name (case and spacing matters).

But hey, if all that seems a little scary or too much of a pain, Just wait for the update. I uploaded it to QA today, so hopefully it will be available soon.

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