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Bot for Genesis problems
Posted: 07 March 2013 03:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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alright I’m definitely missing something here.

How do you apply the silver to the whole body? Or just to an arm?

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Posted: 07 March 2013 12:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Bejaymac - 06 March 2013 05:49 AM
jakiblue - 06 March 2013 05:23 AM

i don’t get why, if the bot was created for Genesis, it ONLY takes V4 textures, and not genesis/V5 etc.

I can think of two good reasons, first one is Genesis comes with a V4 UV so everybody has that set, and you need to buy V5 to get the UVs for it, and not every DS4 user has been suckered into buying the over priced low quality garbage DAZ are passing off as Gen 5.

Second is the sheer amount of work involved in redoing the UVs on the skin sections, which would mean you would be paying a lot more for it than you are just to cover the extra work.

Uh, wow Bejaymac, you nailed the two major reasons on the head! I’m so grateful to you for explaining things so well. Making grafting figures that exactly match V4 UVs (Genesis’s default) over seams was extremely difficult. There are so few UV mapping tools that will allow you to snap UV vertices from one object to another. Silo, which I use, does a good job but it also has a bug that disintegrates UVs over time (and there is no hope of the program ever being updated). So many times I found my work was lost even though I had saved it and had to do the UVs all over again. It’s a fate too tedious to wish on my worst enemy.

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Posted: 07 March 2013 01:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Have a look at modo - that should do what you need, if you place the snap-to geometry in a background layer.

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Posted: 07 March 2013 01:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Thanks, Richard. I’m definitely looking at Modo, but at $1200 I’ve got to get a good idea of the learning curve and other features that I might use over other software I have. $1200 would be too much for me to justify if it were just for UV snapping.

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Posted: 07 March 2013 05:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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jakiblue - 07 March 2013 03:59 AM

alright I’m definitely missing something here.

How do you apply the silver to the whole body? Or just to an arm?

Jakiblue, just in case you didn’t see my post in the other thread (Bot Genesis in Poser? What’s your opinion?), I’ll be starting a new thread with how to pictures later today. But for now, to answer your questions with just text instructions:

To apply silver (chrome) to the whole body: Mechanical figures load with the chrome materials, so you just need to apply a material preset to Genesis. To do that, make sure that Genesis is selected in the Scene tab. Then, in the Content Library tab, navigate to People>Genesis>Materials>Bot Genesis and double left click BotGen_BaseMat (if you want chrome with no makeup) or BotGen_FemMat (if you want chrome with pretty, girly pink make-up).

As for the rest of the material presets, there is a group for applying a very basic metallic material (with no reflections) labeled “Quik” in the titles and a group of presets that do chrome with real ray-traced reflections (takes longer to render) labeled “Trace”. Each preset has a thumbnail and name which should then make it clear what to apply it to.

So for instance, if you want to apply material changes to the left mechanical hand figure, select the figure in the Scene tab, then double left click the material preset in the Content Library called BotGen_Quik_LHand (for quick metal) or BotGen_Trace_LHand (for ray-traced metal).

To apply chrome or other material presets to just an arm or other part:
1. In the Scene tab, select the Figures that you want to apply materials to (hold down Ctrl to select multiple. You may need to expand Genesis to see Mechanical figures if they are parented to it).
2. In the Surfaces tab, select the surfaces in each figure that you want to apply the materials to (hold down Ctrl to select multiple).
3. In the Content Library tab, hold down Ctrl while double left clicking on the icon for the material you want to apply.
4. In the Material Preset Load Options dialog, choose “Selected” from the Surfaces dropdown then click the Accept button.

The limitation with partial mats here is that we have to work with the existing material zones that Genesis (V4 UVs, which are the default) has. So you may imagine different points where skin meets flesh that the material zones don’t support. I’m working on a texture set that will provide more logical material intersections. However that scenario will likely support only the materials made specifically for this purpose because of the limitation of existing material zones. Images will make this clearer, if it doesn’t make sense right now. So hang tight. I’ll post a link in here once I’ve got pictures to show.

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Posted: 19 March 2013 12:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Is there any way to get parts of the torso armor to simply disappear without pasting a V4 texture on top of it? I wanted to try something with the torso segment where the only visible part was the spine, and not the parts that wrap around the neck and abdomen. However, because the custom shader doesn’t have an opacity strength slider, there doesn’t seem to be any way to get rid of it. Since I was trying it on an M4 character, pasting textures over it wouldn’t work. Different options are present or not depending on which surfaces you select, so figuring out what one could do is very confusing anyway. Tried using the Value sliders, and they didn’t seem to help, and after that, I didn’t have a clue.

Also, if you don’t want the torso or full-body bot, is there any way to get a clean edge on the hip joints? They’re very jagged. I’ve tried pasting V4 textures into the SkinHip and skin sections, but that didn’t work.

(As a matter of purest curiosity, is there likely to be an M4-UV addon later? I do understand using the most common texture to start with, but leaving all male textures besides the now much less used V4 Male out of the equation means that there’s a fairly notable chunk of the market that gets missed.)

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Posted: 19 March 2013 06:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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Parris - 07 March 2013 01:47 PM

Thanks, Richard. I’m definitely looking at Modo, but at $1200 I’ve got to get a good idea of the learning curve and other features that I might use over other software I have. $1200 would be too much for me to justify if it were just for UV snapping.

Have you looked at Headus UV Layout? 

http://www.uvlayout.com/

The Pro version runs $300 and they offer a demo to try it out.

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Posted: 19 March 2013 07:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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different bots? here I have one

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Posted: 20 March 2013 01:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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I would like to know what UV Maps this supports. I am trying to get Hitomi maps to work and I just can’t. at least not properly. I am trying to use the Robo Geisha set.

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Posted: 20 March 2013 01:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Only V4 UVs are supported.

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Posted: 21 March 2013 03:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Well here is something I’ve been working on. hope you like it.

I have come across a few bumps in the road while working with the genesis bot it nothing I could not get past.I love it.

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Posted: 30 March 2013 12:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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vwrangler - 19 March 2013 12:36 AM

Is there any way to get parts of the torso armor to simply disappear without pasting a V4 texture on top of it? I wanted to try something with the torso segment where the only visible part was the spine, and not the parts that wrap around the neck and abdomen. However, because the custom shader doesn’t have an opacity strength slider, there doesn’t seem to be any way to get rid of it. Since I was trying it on an M4 character, pasting textures over it wouldn’t work. Different options are present or not depending on which surfaces you select, so figuring out what one could do is very confusing anyway. Tried using the Value sliders, and they didn’t seem to help, and after that, I didn’t have a clue.

Also, if you don’t want the torso or full-body bot, is there any way to get a clean edge on the hip joints? They’re very jagged. I’ve tried pasting V4 textures into the SkinHip and skin sections, but that didn’t work.

(As a matter of purest curiosity, is there likely to be an M4-UV addon later? I do understand using the most common texture to start with, but leaving all male textures besides the now much less used V4 Male out of the equation means that there’s a fairly notable chunk of the market that gets missed.)

Vwrangler, I don’t want to leave you hanging, so I’ll try to answer your questions as best I can. However, I have a sense about some of your questions that makes me think my answers won’t necessarily take you exactly where you want to go. Understanding all the complexities and limitations of the technology in DAZ Studio (or any 3D app) can be a little daunting. In my own work, I try to figure out the shortest route to creating what my mind is imagining. If you’re not working on animation, it’s often a lot easier to get what you want by doing two renders (one of each thing you want to combine) and then use Photoshop (or other image editor) to combine the renders with each render as separate layers. If you insist on being a 3D purist, your in for a very long bumpy ride.

Ok, my that’s my disclaimer, so now the answers:

Hiding things—On the Surfaces tab, select the surface you want to hide. You can also use the Surface Selection Tool and click on the area of the figure, if you’re not sure which surface is the right one. Then click on Opacity Color and change it from white to black. That will make the polygons that share that surface disappear. However, that will produce a hole in the figure, so like I said before, I’m not sure that is what you want here. The technology limitation here is that the bot figures are geografted, which means that they replace the geometry of Genesis rather than just cover over it like clothing. Looking at the example you gave of wanting to use just the spine part of the bot torso figure (and not the neck, etc.), I think the easiest way would be to do two renders: one of Genesis and one or the robot, then layer in Photoshop. Put the Genesis render on top and erase wherever you want the robot to show through. It may get trickier (with more layers) depending on what you’re trying to do, but probably way easier than breaking up my model in a modeler and then re-rigging, etc. in DAZ studio (which is about the only other way to use just part of the torso figure the way I think you intend.

How to Get a Clean edge/ apply V4 textures—Ok, so the reason the edges are jagged is because the edge that merges with Genesis (a single row of connected polygons) has to match Genesis’s polys for geografting to work. If you switch to Wire Texture Shaded view (little sphere in the upper right of the main scene window), you can see how Genesis’s polys are laid out. So anyway let’s get some V4 textures on the bot figures so we don’t see a jagged edge:

1. In the Scene tab, select the Figures that you want to apply materials to (you may need to expand Genesis to see Mechanical figures that are parented to it).
2. In the Surfaces tab, select the surfaces in each figure that you want to apply the materials to.
3. In the Content Library tab, hold down Ctrl while double left clicking on the icon for the material you want to apply.
4. In the Material Preset Load Options dialog, choose “Selected” fron the Surfaces dropdown then click the Accept button.

Ok, so about future UV support for others like M4: I will definitely consider that. V4 was picked because it is the default for Genesis and because so many great textures already exist for it. M4 seems like a good male equivalent. For the future I’m thinking of Bot Genesis as my base product. I intend to continue to improve it and I have many plans for addons. Ideally, I would have liked to release Bot Genesis with several other addons I had planned, but the technical challenges of making it work with so many different shapes proved to be a huge undertaking. So I decided to release it into the wild sooner rather than later. People are doing a lot of cool things with it, so that’s good. More is coming though!...

Hopefully I’ve answered your questions, but let me know. Also, bit more is here: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/16305/ Good Luck!

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Posted: 30 March 2013 12:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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A little feedback:

First, the main alternate UV I’d like to see supported is V5.  I’m sure others will have their preferences, but V5’s UV map seems to be the most supported (by third-party content creators) of the (non-generation 4) alternate UVs available for Genesis at this time.

Second, I had to re-assign some of the faces in the torso geograft to get a clean break between bot torso and human head.  The issue is that the SkinNeck zone in the torso exists both above and below the neck collar.  Above the collar, you want to use a human skin, but below the collar, you want bot metal.  I ended up selecting the faces below the collar and making them into a new material zone.  Given that I think “bot with human head” is something that might be kind of popular, this might be something to consider integrating into the product for a future update.

I’ve attached a screenshot to show what I mean.  To highlight the surfaces in question, I’ve set them to bright solid colours.  The green area is the original SkinNeck, and the red area is the new SkinNeck - Below Collar zone that I remapped in the Polygon Group Editor.

Third, a humanish skin texture for the hand_skin surfaces of the geografted bot hands would be nice to have.  It doesn’t need to exactly match existing skin textures, just be more like a mannikin’s hand than a metal hand if that makes any sense.  (Although if it’s possible to create a UV mapping for it that would allow a skinmap to drive it, that would be pretty awesome.  I understand it would require some creative choices of where to pull some of the coordinates from…)

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Posted: 30 March 2013 01:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Cwichura,

Thanks for the feedback. Yep, I definitely understand your points and will keep them in mind. Specifically I am planning a texture set that will include more versatile transitions between metal and flesh. This will likely utilize dual material surface shaders so that transitions are not limited by imperfect polygon loops. I may also try to provide some ethnicity options in that texture set as well.

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Posted: 30 March 2013 01:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Parris - 30 March 2013 12:14 PM

Vwrangler, I don’t want to leave you hanging, so I’ll try to answer your questions as best I can. However, I have a sense about some of your questions that makes me think my answers won’t necessarily take you exactly where you want to go. Understanding all the complexities and limitations of the technology in DAZ Studio (or any 3D app) can be a little daunting. In my own work, I try to figure out the shortest route to creating what my mind is imagining. If you’re not working on animation, it’s often a lot easier to get what you want by doing two renders (one of each thing you want to combine) and then use Photoshop (or other image editor) to combine the renders with each render as separate layers. If you insist on being a 3D purist, your in for a very long bumpy ride.

Thanks for such a very detailed and helpful answer. And no, I’m not any sort of purist, though my postwork skills are kind of ... interestingly terrible when it comes to fine work.

The technology limitation here is that the bot figures are geografted, which means that they replace the geometry of Genesis rather than just cover over it like clothing.

I wasn’t sure about where the balance between geograft and Genesis and texture and how they interacted was, so this was a good thing to know. It’s clear that the core part of the joints, where you can see through, are geografts, but since the items install into People/Genesis/Clothing, I thought something like the torso section, with no visible interior sections, might just wrap around Genesis rather than replacing that section of the figure completely. Thank you for letting me know that isn’t the case; I have a better idea how to use it now.

And thanks for answering the question about the texture replacement again; I didn’t realize that it would just be the same solution as the chrome replacement. I thought that was just particular to the shaders designed to go with the figure.

EDIT: So I just had to see what it would look like with the opacity flipped to black on some sections. It’s kind of interesting, in a surreal sort of way.  If someone wanted to do a “building the bot” type render, it could make for a sort of starting point. And the other solution worked perfectly on a V4 textured character to make a clean edge. Thanks again!

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