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Daz Vendors - listen closely
Posted: 25 January 2013 06:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Taozen - 25 January 2013 04:58 AM
LeatherGryphon - 23 January 2013 08:35 AM
Taozen - 22 January 2013 10:45 PM

Me thinks all stores should drop all sales completely and lower the prices in general, instead.

Google what happened when the iconic big US department store chain “J. C. Penney” (now known as JCP) tried that approach.  Sounds good, but doesn’t work.

Well if everybody did it I think it would.

No you end up with a situation where the various stores are still trying to undercut each other,  Stores have offers along the lines of “If you can find it cheaper elsewhere we will refund the difference” and such like. Prices do keep dropping for a while, but so does quality. You get hidden price increases, such as a reduction in the amount of content in a product, packs get smaller but this is not announced. Eventually you end up with a large amount of “discount” stores and a few who charge more, but supply quality products. THen of course the next move is that the prices in the cheaper stores start increasing slowly, but without any change in the quality. Eventually you will be paying more for less without realising it.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 06:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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scorpio64dragon - 25 January 2013 06:13 AM

But it does work for many people otherwise it would have been changed by now. Keep in mind forum member are a tiny part of people who buy and most people don’t even bother to come into the forum. So if you are the ones that say “I’ll just buy it later”, then you run the risk of missing the sale, which is really the point. Stores generally want to buy stuff preferably right then not later, but they also place things so where you will buy extra because they’re on sale with no noticeable end dates. All part of buying more while you’re in store… so really it does work.

I am presuming from your comments that as you say it does work, and that sales for vendors are up and that business is not only good but better than before.
I’m very pleased to learn this as sometimes around here you could easily think that people arn’t buying, I do know that my spending is down and that I’m spending more at other stores I’ve also noticed that the forums are quieter than they use to be.

Actually not all that many people are complaining or have stopped buying. Since I’m in a ‘cut the bull’ mood lately I’ll tell you right now that I just roll my eyes when I see ‘I’m no longer buying here’ threads. People have this silly notion of David vs Goliath in their heads when it comes to business. Here’s a newsflash - You’re not David and the giant is not going to fall because you dared to speak out against it. You’re not important, you’re not valued, you’re not loved and you’re not respected. All they want from you is your money. That’s all any business ever want from a client. Oh sure, they might make you believe that they care but blimey mate, do you honestly think someone lies awake at night somewhere in Utah and worries about that guy who threatened to stop buying? No! Instead they lie awake and think of the next big thing they can create to hook you in.

That’s why I love DAZ. They don’t hide the fact that all I am to them is $$$. I feel safe knowing that. cheese

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Posted: 25 January 2013 07:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Harry Dresden - 25 January 2013 06:48 AM
scorpio64dragon - 25 January 2013 06:13 AM

But it does work for many people otherwise it would have been changed by now. Keep in mind forum member are a tiny part of people who buy and most people don’t even bother to come into the forum. So if you are the ones that say “I’ll just buy it later”, then you run the risk of missing the sale, which is really the point. Stores generally want to buy stuff preferably right then not later, but they also place things so where you will buy extra because they’re on sale with no noticeable end dates. All part of buying more while you’re in store… so really it does work.

I am presuming from your comments that as you say it does work, and that sales for vendors are up and that business is not only good but better than before.
I’m very pleased to learn this as sometimes around here you could easily think that people arn’t buying, I do know that my spending is down and that I’m spending more at other stores I’ve also noticed that the forums are quieter than they use to be.


That’s why I love DAZ. They don’t hide the fact that all I am to them is $$$. I feel safe knowing that. cheese

You’re not important, you’re not valued, you’re not loved and you’re not respected

I wonder if the vendors feel the same way, I have seen posts from vendors expressing opposite sentiments than these, presumably they are just sops to get our money - or was the post directed personally at me.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 07:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Harry Dresden - 25 January 2013 06:48 AM

Actually not all that many people are complaining or have stopped buying. Since I’m in a ‘cut the bull’ mood lately I’ll tell you right now that I just roll my eyes when I see ‘I’m no longer buying here’ threads. People have this silly notion of David vs Goliath in their heads when it comes to business. Here’s a newsflash - You’re not David and the giant is not going to fall because you dared to speak out against it. You’re not important, you’re not valued, you’re not loved and you’re not respected. All they want from you is your money. That’s all any business ever want from a client. Oh sure, they might make you believe that they care but blimey mate, do you honestly think someone lies awake at night somewhere in Utah and worries about that guy who threatened to stop buying? No! Instead they lie awake and think of the next big thing they can create to hook you in.

That’s why I love DAZ. They don’t hide the fact that all I am to them is $$$. I feel safe knowing that. cheese

So true and i am fine with it.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 09:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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scorpio64dragon - 25 January 2013 07:12 AM

I wonder if the vendors feel the same way, I have seen posts from vendors expressing opposite sentiments than these, presumably they are just sops to get our money - or was the post directed personally at me.

It’s not personal. That’s the whole point. Of course a vendor is gonna faff and koo at you. They’d be silly not to. They want people to like them because as an extension of that you might just end up buying something. It’s professional courtesy. It’s the guy behind the counter at Wallmart asking you how your day was.

Of course people might now believe that I’m trying to say everyone who runs a business is a cold hear-ted faking monster. Not at all. They’re pretty decent for a bunch of capitalists in fact. But don’t kid yourself that you’re any more special to them than the sound your money makes when it rolls into their pocket. Every product includes some basic support because they want you to buy their next product too. It’s not good and it’s not evil, it’s just business. Knowing this for what it is can be quite liberating because you learn to make purchase choices not based on honeyed words but on quality and value for money. They want my money and I want quality and that’s what makes the world go round. wink

 

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Posted: 25 January 2013 10:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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I am quite aware that business is to make money but you have just painted the vendors and staff here as a bunch of coldhearted bloodsuckers, and personally I don’t think thats fair especially as alot of them claim to not do it for the money but because they enjoy it.
I would hope that Daz and those who work or represent the company do have some respect for this community especially considering how its the community that help the new comers and therefore help the business flourish.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 10:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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It’s not personal.

I have to wonder if you believe vendors are somehow less than human. That if our work is rejected or appreciate that we have no feelings about it. The reality is that most of us are striving diligently to try and please people. Yes, in part because our income depends on it but also in part because most art is created to appeal to someone on some level and an industry like this will not appeal to people who are not at least partly driven by that need. It is unlikely many people go into this industry and stay in this industry any length of time if they have no interest in having people approve of their work.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 11:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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I read Harry’s post, and I’m wondering why there’s such a visceral reaction to it… it seems to be the common “wisdom” where I live… even though it’s completely wrong.

I have to take issue with is the notion that business is not personal.

The idea that Business an impersonal affair is a very Marxist notion designed to make collectivism more appealing.

Business people, in my experience, want very long term relationships with clients.  Yes it’s about earning a living, but it’s also about delivering good service.  This is the foundation of Enlightened Self Interest.

The best products on the market are those that have effort invested in them by the producer and the seller.  DAZ, in my opinion, epitomizes this.  It’s a huge reason why, after so many years (and Zygote before them) I am still coming back.  I like the product they produce and I like the effort they put into making that product the best it can be.  They’ve gone from being a back-water outfit producing models for hobbyists reviled by those in the profession to producing the single most advanced Commercially marketed figure there is.  I’d give an example of an impersonal business but I don’t want to start a flame war…. r…

Business is very personal.  Anyone who treats it as an impersonal affair will not enjoy success for terribly long without making many enemies (which also ends up being personal…)

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Posted: 25 January 2013 11:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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They’re pretty decent for a bunch of capitalists in fact.

Are you under the impression that we have much in the way of capital goods? I suspect 90% of the content providers out there work at home with one or two computers and a half decent chair. The only real solid capital that we poses is human capital and that is limited to 1 or 2 people in almost all cases and the only increase in value to our “companies” is via sweat equity. Admittedly we are given the free choice of what we do with out lives work wise and that is true of capitalist systems but it is also true of other social systems as evidenced by the fact that not all content creators are American or live in capitalist countries.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 11:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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chohole - 25 January 2013 06:25 AM
Taozen - 25 January 2013 04:58 AM
LeatherGryphon - 23 January 2013 08:35 AM
Taozen - 22 January 2013 10:45 PM

Me thinks all stores should drop all sales completely and lower the prices in general, instead.

Google what happened when the iconic big US department store chain “J. C. Penney” (now known as JCP) tried that approach.  Sounds good, but doesn’t work.

Well if everybody did it I think it would.

No you end up with a situation where the various stores are still trying to undercut each other,  Stores have offers along the lines of “If you can find it cheaper elsewhere we will refund the difference” and such like. Prices do keep dropping for a while, but so does quality. You get hidden price increases, such as a reduction in the amount of content in a product, packs get smaller but this is not announced. Eventually you end up with a large amount of “discount” stores and a few who charge more, but supply quality products. THen of course the next move is that the prices in the cheaper stores start increasing slowly, but without any change in the quality. Eventually you will be paying more for less without realising it.

But all that is already happening now, at least where I am, except for the last part perhaps. 

I think the main reason for all this is that the majority - both sellers and buyers - always want as much as possible for as little as possible. If everyone would agree on paying a reasonable price for everything, i.e. a price that reflects the costs and the amount of work involved in producing something, things would work better.

 

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Posted: 25 January 2013 11:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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scorpio64dragon - 25 January 2013 10:25 AM

I am quite aware that business is to make money but you have just painted the vendors and staff here as a bunch of coldhearted bloodsuckers, and personally I don’t think thats fair especially as alot of them claim to not do it for the money but because they enjoy it.
I would hope that Daz and those who work or represent the company do have some respect for this community especially considering how its the community that help the new comers and therefore help the business flourish.

Making money is part of it, but it’s just as important to offer a good service or a good product, not because you have to or otherwise you won’t sell anything, but as an ideal. When making money becomes the only ideal we end up where we are now, with a collapsing world economy.

 

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Posted: 25 January 2013 11:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Perhaps capitalist means something other than what I thought it meant. Most westerners are capitalists (including myself) as that is the economic system we are using. And my point was definitely not that any specific group is worse than another. Sheesh. I’m saying consumers are too often emotionally attached to a product when the creator of the product often don’t even know their name and most likely don’t care what their name is anyway. They post all this emotional stuff about how unfair they are being treated and how they demand justice to be served. They have a right to do this of course. I’m just saying they’re wasting their breath. Of course I might be wrong and all vendors lie awake at night worrying about the fact that one Joe Smith of Somewhere wants to stop shopping here because they didn’t check out a sale item when they had the chance.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 11:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Khory - 25 January 2013 11:16 AM

They’re pretty decent for a bunch of capitalists in fact.

Are you under the impression that we have much in the way of capital goods? I suspect 90% of the content providers out there work at home with one or two computers and a half decent chair. The only real solid capital that we poses is human capital and that is limited to 1 or 2 people in almost all cases and the only increase in value to our “companies” is via sweat equity. Admittedly we are given the free choice of what we do with out lives work wise and that is true of capitalist systems but it is also true of other social systems as evidenced by the fact that not all content creators are American or live in capitalist countries.

Heh.  I just applied for local business licenses so I can open my own site in addition to my brokering at DAZ and Rendo.  I had to describe my square footage used for business.  It’s around 27 sq. ft. because my workstation is 5’ x 5’5” in my bedroom in a shared apartment.


My capital for this business consists of two computers, one laptop, this old chair, and my… I’m female so let’s say “courage.” wink  I don’t do this job just for the love (it has to support me and two cats), but I sure do love this job.

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Posted: 25 January 2013 12:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Miss SickleYield you are my favourite capitalist in the whole wide world!


Now give me a discount so I can buy some more stuff from your store!

LOL

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Posted: 25 January 2013 12:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Harry Dresden - 25 January 2013 12:04 PM

Miss SickleYield you are my favourite capitalist in the whole wide world!


Now give me a discount so I can buy some more stuff from your store!

LOL

Flattery will get you emoticons, you naughty fellow, that’s about it. :D wink :o

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