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WARNING: Kelpie Product Requirements
Posted: 28 December 2012 06:27 PM   [ Ignore ]
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The new Kelpie product (a very nice fantasy character, by the way) says on the product page that it requires Julie.  That is true.  What it doesn’t mention is that it also requires the Evolution Morphs (head and body), V5, Hitomi, and the G4 shape.  Her male counterpart Kobold (who seems to have vanished from the store since yesterday) requires all of the above except V5, plus the M4 shape.

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Posted: 28 December 2012 07:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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That’s an awful lot of ‘extra’ morphs…

At full MSRP…

$15.95 for this package

And to use it you need almost $150 in extras?

$24.95 for Julie
$29.95 for Hitomi
$39.95 for V5
$17.95 for G4 (you get F4, too)
$32.95 for the Evolution Bundle…

That’s a bit much to leave ‘undisclosed’...

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Posted: 28 December 2012 07:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Murgatroyd - 28 December 2012 06:27 PM

Her male counterpart Kobold (who seems to have vanished from the store since yesterday)

IIRC this was supposed to be a limited-time special offer, buy her, get him free. Good thing I got them yesterday.

This lack of actual finishing times in the DAZ store for sales and special offers is so far past a joke I can’t even see it from my house. <sigh>

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Posted: 28 December 2012 08:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I don’t have the G4 shape installed and it works just fine for me.

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Posted: 28 December 2012 08:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Muon Quark - 28 December 2012 08:10 PM

I don’t have the G4 shape installed and it works just fine for me.

It uses her head at a value of 0.3.

The image below with the larger head is what Kelpie looks like on my system.  The one with the smaller head is probably what she looks like on yours.

(Of the not-mentioned-on-the-product-page products, G4 and V5 are minor, Evolution and Hitomi are critical.)

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Posted: 28 December 2012 08:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Muon Quark - 28 December 2012 08:10 PM

I don’t have the G4 shape installed and it works just fine for me.

The morph would probably ‘work’ without ANY of the additional packages…but it won’t look close to the same.  The question is how much does each of those packages actually affect the final look?

Which ones are absolutely essential and without them will totally throw the morph into some ‘almost, maybe, if you close one eye and squint with the other it looks like the promo pic’ and which ones are well, this package affects the toenail length.

My thoughts are that if an item is being promoted as a morph for the base figure, it shouldn’t require any additional morph packages.  If it does then it should be promoted as a morph for which ever is the primary package it needs…like if it is for Genesis..then that’s it…if it needs V5, then it’s a V5 morph not a Genesis one…same with Julie…it’s a Julie morph not a Genesis one.

Kelpie is a unique character for Genesis that comes

That should, in my book read…

Kelpie is a unique character for Julie that comes

Yeah, I may be nitpicking, but it saves headaches when trying to figure out what works out of the box and what requires a bunch of additional stuff to look right.

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Posted: 28 December 2012 10:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I am completely confused right now.  The product page said all that is required is Teen Julie.  On Teen Julie’s product page, there is no requirement other than Genesis.

Are you saying Kelpie won’t install without having the other products installed?  Do you get an error saying it can’t install because you don’t have the other products installed?  I don’t understand how you determined that these other products were required…...  They both installed for me without error even though I don’t have the G4/F4 shapes for Genesis.  They both look exactly like the product for me…

I’m not sure why you think all those other products are required in order to use Kelpie..

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Posted: 28 December 2012 11:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Murgatroyd - 28 December 2012 08:36 PM
Muon Quark - 28 December 2012 08:10 PM

I don’t have the G4 shape installed and it works just fine for me.

It uses her head at a value of 0.3.

The image below with the larger head is what Kelpie looks like on my system.  The one with the smaller head is probably what she looks like on yours.

(Of the not-mentioned-on-the-product-page products, G4 and V5 are minor, Evolution and Hitomi are critical.)

So it’s using the G4 Shape to get the head size morph…

I’m imagining that Hitomi is providing some basic ‘shaping’...Evolution probably a bit of shaping and a bunch of scaling.  Julie is probably pulling most of the load for overall shape, though, so if you have just her, it will look ‘mostly’ right…

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Posted: 29 December 2012 12:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Muon Quark - 28 December 2012 10:37 PM

I am completely confused right now.  The product page said all that is required is Teen Julie.  On Teen Julie’s product page, there is no requirement other than Genesis.

Are you saying Kelpie won’t install without having the other products installed?  Do you get an error saying it can’t install because you don’t have the other products installed?  I don’t understand how you determined that these other products were required…...  They both installed for me without error even though I don’t have the G4/F4 shapes for Genesis.  They both look exactly like the product for me…

I’m not sure why you think all those other products are required in order to use Kelpie..

Just to help clear up the confusion, I hope.. (note, I don’t have the product in question, but understand what the topic - someone please correct if I’m wrong smile  )

The package would install just fine without the morphs, like G4, and in many cases would look very close to the product pictured even if some were missing. Let’s say if you don’t have G4 installed, the package would look about 95% or so like the promo, while someone with all the packages installed it would look 100% (numbers just pulled out of thin air)

Murgatroyd - 28 December 2012 08:36 PM
It uses her head at a value of 0.3.

So it using the G4 head value, if you had G4 installed, would change the shape a little bit, making it larger, maybe the eyes little different, and such.
How they know these packages are used is, having the morphs, when they dial up the Kelpie product and then look at the Head parameters, they can see where the G4 head morph has changed too (from 0 to .3) . The morphs are linked together like that, and by looking at the morphs, you can see what ones were used to make the 100% product.
Morphs like the G4 may have been used in a minor degree, and you will still get the main shape even without it. But (assuming) without Julie dialed in, the morph would look much different, thus making it so Julie is required, while G4 is kind of an “optional requirement”.
Not sure to what degree the other morphs listed actually affect the product, but not having any of them, you could still install the product and still be able to do some stuff with it. It’d just be handy to know what other packages are recommended for the 100% / optimal use before a product is purchased.

Did that help / summed up correctly?

 

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Posted: 29 December 2012 08:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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If this is true then doesn’t this defeat the whole point of Genesis…....having to use a host of morphs to create a character is the old school gen4 mentality…......Genesis is supposed to offer a single unique shape/character??

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Posted: 29 December 2012 08:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Ebahr - 29 December 2012 12:11 AM

Did that help / summed up correctly?

 

Yes thank you!  I just didn’t understand what was going on.  Anyways, sure enough I went to the shaping tab and took a look at the head and it did use Hitomi and V5.  Very strange.  I wonder what the morph looks like with just Genesis installed and Teen Julie installed.  From what I read that is all that is required.  Would it work?

Sorry I didn’t get it at first….

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Posted: 29 December 2012 08:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Muon Quark - 29 December 2012 08:11 AM
Ebahr - 29 December 2012 12:11 AM

Did that help / summed up correctly?

 

Yes thank you!  I just didn’t understand what was going on.  Anyways, sure enough I went to the shaping tab and took a look at the head and it did use Hitomi and V5.  Very strange.  I wonder what the morph looks like with just Genesis installed and Teen Julie installed.  From what I read that is all that is required.  Would it work?

Sorry I didn’t get it at first….

It would probably look pretty close, but the size wouldn’t be ‘right’, probably the overall and especially the head sizes would be different.

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Posted: 29 December 2012 09:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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MassMinion - 29 December 2012 08:02 AM

If this is true then doesn’t this defeat the whole point of Genesis…....having to use a host of morphs to create a character is the old school gen4 mentality…......Genesis is supposed to offer a single unique shape/character??

I haven’t really seen as much of this as in the old days. These days Typically product requirements are pretty simple in that you only need one shape. IE Hitomi or V5. I have yet to see a product that requires multiples, so I think this one is fairly unique.

Genesis is a single mesh, but people can still borrow other morphs if they want to. If I wanted to I could make a few custom characters for G4 for genesis. Would require you to have G4 for genesis and if not they just wouldn’t look right. Nothing stops that practice, it’s just that I haven’t seen it as much.

 

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Posted: 29 December 2012 09:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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SpottedKitty - 28 December 2012 07:26 PM
Murgatroyd - 28 December 2012 06:27 PM

Her male counterpart Kobold (who seems to have vanished from the store since yesterday)

IIRC this was supposed to be a limited-time special offer, buy her, get him free. Good thing I got them yesterday.

This lack of actual finishing times in the DAZ store for sales and special offers is so far past a joke I can’t even see it from my house. <sigh>

Well, that kinda stinks.  When I checked in yesterday, I saw him briefly in the “new products” on the main page, but his product page was gone before I even knew about them (and there was no text about it on Kelpie’s page.)

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Posted: 29 December 2012 09:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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larsmidnatt - 29 December 2012 09:36 AM
MassMinion - 29 December 2012 08:02 AM

If this is true then doesn’t this defeat the whole point of Genesis…....having to use a host of morphs to create a character is the old school gen4 mentality…......Genesis is supposed to offer a single unique shape/character??

I haven’t really seen as much of this as in the old days. These days Typically product requirements are pretty simple in that you only need one shape. IE Hitomi or V5. I have yet to see a product that requires multiples, so I think this one is fairly unique.

Genesis is a single mesh, but people can still borrow other morphs if they want to. If I wanted to I could make a few custom characters for G4 for genesis. Would require you to have G4 for genesis and if not they just wouldn’t look right. Nothing stops that practice, it’s just that I haven’t seen it as much.

 

The problem isn’t so much that it’s being done…I believe Genesis actually encourages stacking and recombining existing morphs, it’s the lack of clear documentation of which ones where used…and a ranking of how vital they are (my preference).

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Posted: 29 December 2012 11:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Of course any pre-reqs should be listed that goes without saying. I don’t think they should ever let it get to the point of ranking the importance of items that are needed.

I think it’s an issue to be very dependent on “stacking”. I really don’t want products to have that many required pieces, it makes things too complicated. There are countless older items, especially PC items that require to to purchase 5 of 6 other items before the product will work completely.

As I said I don’t see this being done currently (for genesis) except with this example. I don’t have any items requiring you to have a ton of different morphs for things to work so i don’t see it as a widespread issue.

Besides if you’re telling me I need 4 different morph kits I know you dial spun the heck out of this and I don’t really think I need to cough up cash for that smile

I think Genesis encourages stacking and recombining of existing morphs for end users, but I wouldn’t expect vendors to over do it.

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