Digital Art Zone

On my loooooonnnnnggggg quest to learn to draw I’ve reached a stage in which I’m fed up with drawing stiff stick figures with all the natural grace of ancient Egyptian wall paintings. So I turned to using pictures for reference and even done the occasional quick study with life drawings.

On the other hand though, looking for a *specific* pose on deviantart, google or whatever is a pain in the lower backside. And for live models… even the patience of beloved family members is not endless. The good old wooden manikin… let’s just say, trying to attach wings to it and pose it in a flight pose is… not easy.

Thus I have begun to consider using a modelling software like daz (or Poser - are we allowed to mention that program here?) for what is stated as the intended purpose: as a reference tool for traditional artists.

I downloaded daz and… How shall I put it? It comes with a steep learning curve, does it not? It may be free to use - but it will cost at least a lot of learning time. And possible the price of add-ons.

What is keeping me back from investing the time - and possibly money - is that I’m not yet sold on the merit of using this or other programs as a reference tool for traditional art. Online searches among artist communities were luke-warm about the use in traditional art as best, downright contemptous and condemming at worst.

On the other hand: those comments often refered to *much* older versions of those programs. And from the comments I assume that many traditional artists haven’t been able to use those programs successfully because they haven’t invested in learning the basics.

So, I’m looking here for feedback: are programs like daz or Poser useful for the traditional artist? Is so - how important have they been to you? And (hopefully I’m not getting in trouble for asking this) is a free to use program like daz as useful for it as a pricey program like Poser?

As I said, I am looking for a reference for traditional art. I don’t see myself going to digital art anytime soon. (Not that I don’t like digital art - it just isn’t my cup of tea at the present time to make any.)

Any feedback or suggestions are welcome.

I can’t draw to save my life so I am no help but I will say that you have not said anything wrong at all. We have a Poser section here.

I would have thought that using a posed figure as reference isn’t a bad idea.. Plus if you look hard enough you should find many free poses. Plus it is not as though you need skin textures and the like as the grey figure we have in DS4.5 would be good enough as a reference surely?

I feel you are putting to much thought into it. While i can see the merit of using either software to help in figure posing for drawing/sketching/painting references, I doubt many are using it for that. When i was studying art in school, there were tons of books on the techniques, these would probably be more useful in learning how to rather than any of these apps. Also keep in mind, the characters for these apps are not 100% realistic in their posing. You would be better off looking at real photos. It’s funny, i look at real photos when posing my digital characters, LOL.

as for the learning curve, every software app has a learning curve, best to just dive in and figure it out rather than contemplating it.

Absolutely. Poser actually got its start as a replacement for live models for artists.

Maybe this might be useful

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/daz-studio-as-an-artists-tool-reference-for-lineart

There are some who use it as a reference…there was a thread not so long ago. Sorry I don’t have a link.

Yes, I have been using it for that for years. I started using Poser because I got tired of hoping up and down and the mirror and scribbling with the wrong hand to get a reference. You can use it for that fairly quickly. Even if it is just the base model with nothing else.

Well if you’re cash rich and time poor, the title below is a defacto guide for traditional artists.
Even the likes of Jack Vettriano have used it before.

The Illustrator’s Figure Reference Manual
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Illustrators-Figure-Reference-Manual/dp/0747500088

Both the book and what poser/studio does is the same thing. They provide a visual reference for artists.
Indeed thats what poser was originally designed for.

Also don’t let anyone say thats wrong, because it’s not. It’s another tool like using a wooden manikin, or a life model. It’s how you use and what YOU create thats the thing. 

Personally I’ll use things like that book, poser, life models, manikins, photography etc etc to get the result I want. Heres a recent example…

Thats a 6ftx6ft Vue render printed on chromavision (see through on 1 side) for an exhibition centre.
The other part is it’s tail so it looks like theres a massive dino behind the wall. Yea I could’ve painted it, which with traditional media would’ve taken weeks, but I figured let the tech do the work

I got into useing DS for similiar reasons wanting a model ,I sculpt in polymer clay ,and while they are more caricatureish,I want to see proper (or at least close to ) bending.I have to admit to not haveing picked up any clay since starting to play with DS though .......not enough time in the day to squeeze everything in to.But the plus side is I do have a number of characters I’ve created who are waiting to come to life in clay ......someday ...

when i got into the hobby it started out as a reference tool for drawing. as time went on, i’ve found myself spending more and more time making content and less and less time drawing it

My original intent for Daz Studio was for using their base characters (Michael 4, Victoria 4, Freak 4) as artist’s manikins.  They’re great for getting custom poses in unique camera angles which you normally wouldn’t see in real life, like those action poses in comic books.

bjebenstreit - 27 December 2012 06:33 PM

I’m fed up with drawing stiff stick figures with all the natural grace of ancient Egyptian wall paintings.

I downloaded daz and… How shall I put it? It comes with a steep learning curve, does it not? It may be free to use - but it will cost at least a lot of learning time. And possible the price of add-ons.

Your Daz manikins can also have the natural grace of ancient Egyptian wall paintings too.  You’ll have to put in the time to learn how to pose them.  The little things in a pose make a huge difference.  Yes, there is a price for add-ons, but I see it as customizing the software with only contents that I want and need.

bjebenstreit - 27 December 2012 06:33 PM

What is keeping me back from investing the time - and possibly money - is that I’m not yet sold on the merit of using this or other programs as a reference tool for traditional art.

You’ve said you’ve already spent a long time trying to learn how to draw.  Spending more time learning something new would only be a benefit.  When you’re starting out, I would suggest taking notes on what is found where and how you got something to work.  So the next time you want to do it, you won’t have to waste time trying to figure it out again.

bjebenstreit - 27 December 2012 06:33 PM

So, I’m looking here for feedback: are programs like daz or Poser useful for the traditional artist?

Depends.  For me as a budding comic book artist it’s one the best things ever for getting dynamic poses.  For others who don’t need extreme poses and camera angles, it may be more of a hassle to learn.

bjebenstreit - 27 December 2012 06:33 PM

And (hopefully I’m not getting in trouble for asking this) is a free to use program like daz as useful for it as a pricey program like Poser?

For your needs, I would say Daz Studio has so many features included which you may never even use.

traditional art, fantasy art, sci-fi art, pinup art, DAZ does it all…

Ah yes, contempt and condemnation are never in short supply, hehehe, good old “art snobbery” strikes again… It’s a bit of a Catch22 - you’re “cheating” if you use anything rendered as a base for painting, and on the other side, the render merchants consider you a “cheater” if you enhance a render via painting.

For my digital art, I do it all the time (I only paint digitally, I used to be pretty good with pastels but too messy and not enough space to keep it up etc etc)... many of my pin-ups are DAZ Genesis renders that have been painted post render (I find using a spatter brush on the smudge tool can give me similar results to blending with pastels). 

No matter how good a custom morph is, they still fall short of looking exactly like a well-known face e.g. a celebrity (anonymous faces can be a lot more convincing, as we have nothing to compare them with other than general human proportions).

What would take me four or five days to paint from scratch, I can do in a single day by using a render as a starting point.

Free tip for anyone wanting to digitally paint a render - In general terms, my DAZ render would be approx 2000-2500 pixels high, but I’d blow this up to 6000 pixels high to then start painting (you can add amazing detail quite easily this way), then reduce back to render size, reassess and adjust accordingly - this almost always includes sharpening image and applying a layer of grain, at least it does for me

Due to the nudity in many of my pin-ups, I can’t share them on the forum…
...but if you browse my dA pin-up gallery, you’ll soon come across them http://jv-andrew.deviantart.com/gallery/41168386

If I get time, I’ll do some forum-compliant images so that i can actually post a couple of examples.

DAZ STUDIO or POSER? - I can’t really say, it’s horses for courses I suppose… but I can recommend the Genesis figure for ease of use in obtaining all sorts of body types & shapes.  There would be cost involved (top priority would be the Evolution morph packs), but if you’re simply using as a visual aid for traditional art, then there’s no need to go overboard buying-up everything in the store.

Here’s a few that i forgot about, albeit they’re not figure studies… all renders that I subsequently painted in Photoshop -

easel won’t hold up my computer.  falls down goes boom

I’ve been using Poser as a reference for traditional art ( graphic novels) since version 2.  However, lately I’ve been gravitating more and more to DAZ Studio 4.5 Pro because Genesis and all the other neat goodies coming out .  Also DS works a lot more smoothly on my PC than Poser 9+ DSON ( windows 8)

The beauty of either software package is that you can produce stunning images without having to spend a lifetime developing traditional art skills. It’s also cheaper in the long run, especially with DS being free and the amount of free content and instruction available.

I guess it all depends on each artist’s goals..For new traditional artists, DS can speed up the learning curve significantly. One can set up and pose figures and then export a simple, non- rendered image to use as a reference for exploring anatomy, action and proportion. Or an artist can choose to let the software do all of that and instead focus on learning lighting, color and rendering.

Personally, I have always loved drawing, but trying to figure out how to render an image in DS or Poser makes my head spin.  So I don’t even try

Having a “digital” model was one of the reasons I got into Daz Studio. Though I must admit, I still end up having to look at photographs of actual people when it comes to some parts of the anatomy or coloring. The good thing about Daz is that I’ve gotten a bit better at drawing perspective which was one of my weak points. It has helped me a little bit and that’s good.