Using Daz characters as a reference

Jovianthe4thJovianthe4th Posts: 0
edited December 2012 in New Users

Hello,

I was wondering if the EULA (I have the Game Developer's License) permits the end user from recreating the custom characters they made in Daz Studio with Genesis. In other words, would I be allowed to use renders of my custom figures as a reference to re-model them from scratch so I can use them in my game? Plus recreating the figures will allow me to customize them further and create better topology and textures for game engines. I want to do this because the Daz figures as they are aren't really suitable for game engines with their current topology, and using the texture atlas and Decimator on a Genesis figure ruins the model. I do not plan to redistribute or sell the models I create using Daz figures as references.

Please note, I only intend to use 2D renders of the figures as a template, not the actual meshes themselves.

Post edited by Jovianthe4th on

Comments

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,400
    edited December 2012

    I'm going to say you are fine. Daz wants to protect it's mesh. That is where it's legal focus is, they aren't trying to protect creative ideas.

    The other ideas are secondary and non-exclusive to Daz so I couldn't see them trying to take you to court for making a costume that looks similiar to one of theirs. As theirs are similar to others typically...

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,933
    edited December 1969

    I would regard that as dubious - although you are dipping into 2D you are using the DAZ items to make new 3D items, so it feels like a derivative product.

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,400
    edited December 1969

    I would regard that as dubious - although you are dipping into 2D you are using the DAZ items to make new 3D items, so it feels like a derivative product.

    Depends on how anal you want to be about it. What sold here ISN'T derivative?

    And I would assume (which I rarely do) that if someone where to use Daz Content as a reference and then Remodel it, they would change a great amount of details for a variety of reasons.

  • Jovianthe4thJovianthe4th Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hmm, and I'm assuming retopology of the Genesis mesh is also a big no-no, right? Unfortunately there aren't any official lower LOD's of Genesis and not being able to retopo means the issues with the clothes caused by decimator and the texture atlas will still remain. I'm sure though there are some base mesh's or 2D templates out there on the web to help me sculpt my own human characters and templates of clothing. I always found it difficult to make realistic human figures and clothing in the past, but with sculptris and some templates out there and then using Blender to retopo to the mesh, I'm sure it'll be much easier to do nowadays than it was just a few years ago as the tools weren't simply available then. I never really understood Blender, though...

  • larsmidnattlarsmidnatt Posts: 3,400
    edited December 2012

    Hmm, and I'm assuming retopology of the Genesis mesh is also a big no-no, right? Unfortunately there aren't any official lower LOD's of Genesis and not being able to retopo means the issues with the clothes caused by decimator and the texture atlas will still remain. I'm sure though there are some base mesh's or 2D templates out there on the web to help me sculpt my own human characters and templates of clothing. I always found it difficult to make realistic human figures and clothing in the past, but with sculptris and some templates out there and then using Blender to retopo to the mesh, I'm sure it'll be much easier to do nowadays than it was just a few years ago as the tools weren't simply available then. I never really understood Blender, though...

    Yeah retopo has been covered by Richard before and is a no-no if it is automated. I think that last time this came up using features to help you retopo manually were ok, i think...

    Post edited by larsmidnatt on
  • Jovianthe4thJovianthe4th Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    What about using Blender or Topogun to retopo the mesh? Do they count as automated retopology? I guess I'll need Richard to clarify this for me.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,933
    edited December 1969

    They would, so far as I know - certainly Topogun from what I know of it - but I'm not clear that it would be an issue here, after all the game developer license allows you to use the base mesh should you wish which isn't the case for content making (and it's for that reason that mesh transfer tools aren't allowed). For use embedded in a game, with a Developer License, I think you can torture the mesh in any way you like.

  • Jovianthe4thJovianthe4th Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Well, I don't suppose there are anybody else that can shed some light on the situation? It's a little confusing to figure out what would be acceptable.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Not useing the Mesh at ALL but Building one FROM scratch just from the IDEA would work. But I think that would be All.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,206
    edited December 1969

    As you mention you have the gaming license, I would suggest passing your question through the Customer Support option ... may take them a little while to answer but then you'll know for certain. Some do what others can't and the only possible ease I would think would be plausible for it is that maybe they have gaming licenses but didn't bother to tell people.

  • Age of ArmourAge of Armour Posts: 426
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, contact DAZ. Make sure you spell out that you have a Game Dev licence and spell out what you want to do as simply but clearly as you can. Maybe even call them.

    I am not a DAZ official... what I say here is just my personal opinion but I think you will probably be okay if you have a Genesis Dev licence and are making game assets. It has been quite a while since I read the Dev EULA but it seems like it was fairly accommodating about being able to tweak the mesh. I assume you could even use auto-retop tools for such things... Again, ask DAZ to be sure though.

    Now if you were to make a retop Genesis clone to sell at other sites then there would probably be problems.

  • Jovianthe4thJovianthe4th Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Contacted the Daz3D support team, awaiting their answer.

    Clearly Daz figures weren't designed for game engines. But unfortunately I did not realize this until I had spent a lot of money on Daz products :(

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,933
    edited December 1969

    Sorry, I'd missed that you had a developer license (mainly as it seemed a lot of extra effort if you could use the mesh more directly) but as I said in my last post, if you are doing something that the developer license allows you to do with the base mesh then you can do it with any kind of derivative you create - including using 2D renders as templates for new mesh..

  • Jovianthe4thJovianthe4th Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Well I'm also having all sorts of trouble when importing Daz figures into UDK. Daz Studio just decides it does not want to export the figures. Sometimes the textures are messed up too, but I think I may have figured a way around that, hopefully it'll work when Daz finally feels like exporting.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,206
    edited December 1969

    I'm not familiar with anything to do with games however there is the included plugin "Texture Atlas" which appears to be useful for gaming products. Also many use the Decimator plugin, that is a separate purchase except if I recall correctly, it may have come with your license.

  • ghastlycomicghastlycomic Posts: 1,710
    edited December 1969

    There's always MakeHuman. You get to do whatever the heck you want with those figures. Use them as is, modify them, redistribute them, sell them, whatever. I've been cannibalizing the heck out of MakeHuman figures to make clothing and accessories for the Genesis models. There are even low poly game model proxies included.

  • Jovianthe4thJovianthe4th Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Well I got an answer from when I opened my ticket:

    As long as you aren't referencing the topology of the figure then that would be fine. If your 2D render is just a render of the wire frame mesh then that would not be ok. If you did the latter you would be bound by the same terms and conditions of that the original Genesis figure has.

    You can re-do the topology of the Genesis figure, and in fact I think you'll find you won't get very far if you don't redo the topology of the figure. However you are still bound by the same terms with your 'new' genesis figure as you would be with the original.

    I hope this answers your questions.

    Hopefully that'll also clear things up to those wonder the same thing as I was.

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