Digital Art Zone

There is no perfect software. Everyone wants there to be, and everyone seems to assume there is, but there isn’t. Every software has downsides to it.

Likewise, every software has its fans who get upset when you tell them that it’s got downsides. They take it personally, because they’re like little children who can’t handle any criticism of stuff they like. And they play these silly “my software is better than your software” games.

And others are always searching for that perfect software, which doesn’t exist. Every software, if you look at it in any depth, and with any history, has problems. And most has huge problems.

So you figure out what you need for what you want to do, investigate what’s out there, and figure out which will do the best job, recognizing that nothing out there will be perfect.

Or, if you’re like many and just want to play with software, you flip a coin and pick what sounds coolest and most fun to play with.

But in the end it’s just software. Nothing to get your panties in a bunch over.

Oscarko - 27 December 2012 11:36 AM

My vote for Modo. Modo seems to have amazing development, every new version seems to bring more wow. And it is the most carrara-like software in my opinion. Even daz used Modo for making vicky and michael as i recall.

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Modo 40% off until Dec 31st   http://www.luxology.com/store/

Is it really comparable to Carrara ? Price is double Carrara but a LOT less than Maya/C4d and others

I didnt see any mention of NLA. What is its character animation capability - any mimic/puppeteer etc

How does it handle (import )Daz /poser characters and props?

What features rely on plugins ?  Plantlife, terraine ?

Anything else ?

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Modo 40% off until Dec 31st   http://www.luxology.com/store/

Is it really comparable to Carrara ? Price is double Carrara but a LOT less than Maya/C4d and others

I didnt see any mention of NLA. What is its character animation capability - any mimic/puppeteer etc

How does it handle (import )Daz /poser characters and props?

What features rely on plugins ?  Plantlife, terraine ?

Anything else ?

It’s not comparable on a lot of levels. I have Modo 501. Modo is a powerful modelling tool. This is where it really shines.
In modo, I find that I am trying to get stuff done. Carrara has a fun nature to it.

What’s great in Modo -
modeling tool set
materials
assets (Polygon models)
rendering
inclusion of community (Modo, especially brad Peebler, goes out of his way to make the community feel like they matter).

What stinks in Modo -
Material/texture tree (many like it, but to me it is confusing)

In the end consider Modo a great modeller and is building upon that foundation. In 601 they have added a joint system.
Animation is available but is not very intuitive.

It is no the jack of all trades that Carrara is.

Cheetah 3d
Any one have any experience with this $69 offering?

I have licenses for Modo, C4D and Carrara for my business. In case anyone cares about my opinion (hehe) I really do think C4D is way more intuitive than Modo. The interface just makes sense. It is a well-rounded application that can accomplish pretty much any task you throw at it. Don’t get me wrong, Modo is great, but just a little confusing to me (and this is coming from someone who got started with Lightwave back in the day - Modo was created by an offshoot of Newtek at the time and was supposed to be very similar). Modo’s animation capabilities are getting much better, but they are still in their infancy, so aren’t very polished yet. We’ve also had way more crashes in Modo than C4D. That said, Modo is a far superior modeler in my opinion.

In the end, I don’t think you can go wrong with either application, they’re both great. I would just expect that you would get up and running in C4D a little quicker than Modo.

I have Carrara specifically for quick access to Daz content for motion graphics work. As far as I’m concerned, DS is finally at the point that it can replace Carrara in my workflow. Unless Daz unveils some amazing new features for C9 (if they ever release it at all) I won’t be upgrading.

Cheetah is a cool little app. I fooled around with the trial when I was bored one weekend. It certainly gets far more attention from it’s developer than Carrara does.

In the end, all of these applications are capable of producing amazing things, just look through their user galleries. You just have to be willing to put the time into learning them. That said, it makes sense to migrate to an application that has consistent development. I can upgrade my OS at any time, and know that within days any of my animation packages will work, with the exception of Carrara. There’s always the fear that any change to my computer will break it, and it will take months to get patched.

I am under the impression that, as was hinted to above, that Genesis must be sorted out prior to the official release of the version of Carrara that works with it. There have been many requests for Genesis functionality which became a big push towards Carrara 8.5
They have also received a bazillion requests (certainly not from me) to have a more direct Carrara > DS conduit, which is why we are currently waiting. Genesis in Carrara is pretty decent (I’ve heard) in the current build (172) but the .duf file format has some apparent issues - again, this has no effect on my work, as I’ve never tried exporting/importing to/from DS. Somehow, there seems to be some confusion in folks, thinking that since .duf can get some stuff from DS into Carrara (and visa versa) that anything and everything can transfer, so they get errors and/or other hostile behavior between the programs. I guess that someone even tried to transfer one of the Howie Farkes Carrara scenes into DS - and became upset with the result.

Personally, I’m glad that they’re taking their time with it - and that actually may be part of it. I had some decent communications for a small time with some of the developers, and (hangs head low for those who are upset with waiting) told them that I’d prefer that they took their time rather than hurry through it - but I wasn’t alone there.

This Genesis thing is a real cap in the hat of Daz3d, and I think we should be patient and let these folks have their day to work on perfecting a way to make it more compatible with the rest of the “buy it and load it - then dress it up and pose it” software offerings - and that certainly includes our beloved Carrara - which is the biggest reason why I’ll never replace Carrara with any of the above mentioned software offerings. Last time I’ve checked (but this was years ago), even the big boys, 3DS and Maya, where a pain to work with if all you needed was a solution for working with Poser-type figures. This puts Carrara in a league all its own, since it, also includes some pretty decent modeling capabilities.

I’m not defending Carrara over the more Pro-priced softwares, but I chose Carrara from the start because I have no intentions of modelling everything I need for my movies. Quite the opposite, I want to model as little as possible! But with Carrara, one can do what is done in Poser and/or DS while having the awesome abilities of:
- Actual mesh manipulation and morph additions
- Handling much larger scenes
- Many various methods of lighting and rendering
and I feel that Carrara has much better animation tools as well - or is it just the interface? I can barely get going in Poser, but DS seemed even worse, but I’ve not tried the new GoFigure plugins.

Like Holly, Carrara would still continue as my main software even if they stopped developing it - just so long as I have a SN for it - which has been graciously updated prior to expiration so far. (Thanks BFurner!)

I’ve seen folks model in Modo and all I can say about that is; “Wow! Great modelling interface and tools! Along with excellent attention to key commands and ease of use!” I’ve taken Maya for a spin and have actually spent quite a bit of time behind a screen running 3DS Max. Never tried Lightwave and I’m just not interested in Blender. But I already know from talking to the folks that are happy with these, that they are excellent software choices for sure.

Carrara was developed for me - and I really feel that way. There must be more people out there who are like me in that they want to assemble scenes from purchased content and render off a bazillion animated clips with the intention of creating a movie or a short or…
When I researched software for performing this stuff while having the ability to actually model figures, Carrara stood completely alone. Completely. Well, now that I own it, it truly does what I wanted it to do BETTER than what I’d hoed it would. BETTER! And I find that to be very cool, indeed.

Joe, I agree with what you’ve said earlier… but I’m not actually saying that Carrara is the best thing for everything and everyone, and I apologize if that’s how I come off. I go off on these rants to try and illustrate to everyone that, just because Modo can model the Dickens around Carrara, doesn’t make it a better software choice. Watching Cripeman’s tutorial videos, you can see that he tries to find different ways to make different things happen in Carrara, that some folks might say that Carrara cannot do… I love that! Carrara can really do an awful lot of tasks, and it can turn out some great results. Heh… he even shows how you can use bulb lights to make fog! Awesome!

Yeah… Carrara’s one fine piece of software. So I’m glad that they’re taking their time. Who knows, maybe they’re working on a Carrara > DS, DS > Carrara bridge!!! I’d rather have a Carrara > Hexagon, Hexagon > Carrara bridge, myself. But a DS bridge would likely allow that by going through DS first, so…

No. I think that they just need to perform some very important follow through with their incredible new Genesis. That done, they can then finish their Poser compatibility (Huge user base), and then complete Carrara 8.5 (9). And from what I know of the three devs I’ve spoken with (they all have a passion for making Carrara excellent!) we’ll all be happy that we waited.

Sorry for the long rant - but this stuff is hard for me to say using any less words - probably due to my born-in insanity

I’m fine with waiting, but not with silence.  They can take all the time they need (within reason) to get it right, but they should at least let us know what the deal is.  The last thing we heard was that there was a new beta coming out with a couple of days…then nothing.  We deserve and explanation.

Dartanbeck - 27 December 2012 06:50 PM

Personally, I’m glad that they’re taking their time with it - and that actually may be part of it. I had some decent communications for a small time with some of the developers, and (hangs head low for those who are upset with waiting) told them that I’d prefer that they took their time rather than hurry through it - but I wasn’t alone there.

You have a fortunate inside track there Dart. If Daz really is still working on Carrara, then I want them to take their time and get it rock-solid too. What frosts my shorts is the complete radio-silence from them.

On another thread along these lines I put out the humble suggestion that a dev drop into these forums every couple of weeks. “We solved a tricky memory bug this week.” Or, “You’ll love what we’re doing with Feature X!”

Just keep the channels open is all…witness the Building Windows 8 blog the Microsoft opened well over a year before the public saw it. This sort of connection to a user base is de rigeur now; so that makes Daz’s silence all that more frustrating.

Kodiak3D - 27 December 2012 07:01 PM

I’m fine with waiting, but not with silence.  They can take all the time they need (within reason) to get it right, but they should at least let us know what the deal is.  The last thing we heard was that there was a new beta coming out with a couple of days…then nothing.  We deserve and explanation.

Garstor - 27 December 2012 07:02 PM

Dartanbeck - 27 December 2012 06:50 PM

Personally, I’m glad that they’re taking their time with it - and that actually may be part of it. I had some decent communications for a small time with some of the developers, and (hangs head low for those who are upset with waiting) told them that I’d prefer that they took their time rather than hurry through it - but I wasn’t alone there.

You have a fortunate inside track there Dart. If Daz really is still working on Carrara, then I want them to take their time and get it rock-solid too. What frosts my shorts is the complete radio-silence from them.

On another thread along these lines I put out the humble suggestion that a dev drop into these forums every couple of weeks. “We solved a tricky memory bug this week.” Or, “You’ll love what we’re doing with Feature X!”

Just keep the channels open is all…witness the Building Windows 8 blog the Microsoft opened well over a year before the public saw it. This sort of connection to a user base is de rigeur now; so that makes Daz’s silence all that more frustrating.

Right. I agree that someone should pop in with something for us to see.
But I don’t think that they’re working on Carrara right now. (my own thoughts - as I don’t know what’s going on)
I think that they’ve merged all developers into the biggest problems at hand - and get that (those) the way they really really want it to be. Being a Daz Artist, I do know that they want to be the best at what they do - and stay that way. Now that they’ve proven Genesis to be a truly remarkable and inspirational figure for everything and anything that their usual client wants to do (which is a vast difference from this type of artist to that), they were probably really bummed out when Smith Micro backed out of their end towards compatibility the way they did - it was bad!

In the same light, what I’ve been saying about how awesome Carrara is for a person like me, those reasons put Carrara in as another huge important piece of software for Daz3d to offer - there’s no other beast like it… anywhere!

Well, you used to be able to at least keep a finger on the pulse of development with the Bug Tracker, but there hasn’t been anything in the “solved” category for Carrara since October 22.  There’s still a little motion (a German language pack was “assigned” yesterday, in fact), so there’s hope the patient might make it through.  Why assign a new language pack if there’s no development being done?

There’s a funny old saying… a watched pot never boils. I really think their problems (Genesis, Genesis in Poser, the website and store, etc.) have slowed Carrara development way down. But there’s a 30% off sale for Carrara with the latest from DT and Howie in the new e-blast.

And if it’s any consolation…which I’m sure it isn’t…. 

This software development stuff really does take a very, very long time. Heck, if they told you a year and a half ago it was going to take a year and a half before 8.5 was out, how many of us would have thrown up our hands and walked away? In that case, being open and honest might have done more harm than good.

And look at, say, Modo. How many years ago did Peebler split from Newtek and start Modo development? Seems like decades. And where is it now? Still doesn’t have some basic stuff you’d expect in a 3d app. This stuff really does take a very long time. Even stuff you might think can be knocked out in a week or so, probably takes months.

And consider that most of the big apps have only one big app to develop. Unlike DAZ, which has a bunch of them that are, presumably, handled by mostly the same crew. At least I think that’s the case.

And look at Lightwave. For the longest time it barely had a UV mapping function. And no dynamics, when most others had all that stuff. And the whole freakin’ program seemed like nothing but plugins to do the most basic stuff.

And Messiah. Holy cow, talk about an app that dragged and dragged forever, with virtually no word whatsoever from Fori.

Doesn’t make it all right, just might help with expectations. Sometimes there’s just no good news to tell, and telling bad news is the last thing you want to do.

Holly got it right. When I was trialing apps it was a toss up between carrara and C4D because I liked the interfaces.

I wouldn’t mind the wait if I thought DAZ was actually working on carrara rather then development setting idle. In fact when was the last time DAZ updated anything? It has been a while for studio as well. Sort of makes a person wonder if DAZ isn’t down to a skeletal staff that doesn’t include devs.

I would bet all the devs are working on Genesis and getting duf to work. They stand to make more money if they get all the problems with content ironed out.

But as Kodiak mentioned, they assigned adding German language to Carrara. Maybe they want to lure some of the C4D crowd in Germany.

The thing that keeps coming up is that to use DAZ content, it’s much easier and takes less time to use Studio and Carrara. To get the content into other apps, there is all the re-rigging, texture issues, etc. to deal with.

Kevin Sanderson - 28 December 2012 03:36 AM

There’s a funny old saying… a watched pot never boils.

<sarcasm>
I can confirm that this old saying isn’t true.  I tried it once.  Put water in a pot, put it on the stove and high, and waited and watched.  Sure
enough, it DID boil (much to my surprise). 
</sarcasm>