Any suggestions to See a beam of light.

Box8068_31c338ee4bBox8068_31c338ee4b Posts: 236
edited December 1969 in Carrara Discussion

Happy holidays!
I am working on an animation where a beam of light enters a skylight and moves across the room.
I'm in pretty good shape, the light moves and casts a shadow. It would be nice if I could see the light beam,
and got a lens flare as it moved across. If this is possible in carrara it seems to be to be in the new light settings.
I just upgraded to V8 from 6. I thought I heard mention of God lights? I do see some Halo and lens flare settings in my light,
but I have tried a few and not found a visible beam. I don't mind going through and checking all the options, but turning that stuff on
really jacks up render times, and trial and error is very very time consuming. Any suggestions?
Thanks
8068

Comments

  • dot_batdot_bat Posts: 265
    edited December 1969

    you need something to interrupt the lite to bounce and reflect off of, a atmosphere, dust, fog etc. try a lite cone

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,589
    edited December 1969

    Yes, it's called a "light cone", and you will only see that option if you're using a spotlight.

    And FWIW, keep in mind that there is a reason that lights might have visible "cones"....it's because the light is bouncing off a bunch of dust/mist/water vapor in the air. So don't have an otherwise clear scene that has a thick light cone shooting thru. It'll look all weird and stuff.

  • Box8068_31c338ee4bBox8068_31c338ee4b Posts: 236
    edited December 1969

    Excellent thanks guys! It worked great!
    Only one question, the spotlight seems to penetrate the walls a bit
    using a default shadier. Is that a light setting.
    Thanks again!
    8068

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,589
    edited December 1969

    Make sure that you have Cast Shadows selected on every light in your scene, and set the Shadow Intensity at 100%.

    Do that for every light in your scene. Always. In every scene from now until the end of time. And while you're at it, Select Scene and under Effects/Ambient turn Brightness down to 0%. Always. In every scene from now until the end of time.

    And don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. :)

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    There is an option to check 3D Shadows in the Light cone interface.

  • dot_batdot_bat Posts: 265
    edited December 1969

    if lite is penetrating add some thickness to the walls, doesn't have to be much

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 7,704
    edited December 1969

    Make sure that you have Cast Shadows selected on every light in your scene, and set the Shadow Intensity at 100%.

    Do that for every light in your scene. Always. In every scene from now until the end of time. And while you're at it, Select Scene and under Effects/Ambient turn Brightness down to 0%. Always. In every scene from now until the end of time.

    And don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. :)


    Unless there's a reason to use ambient or to turn off shadows. Never say never. And don't listen to anybody that says otherwise! ;-)

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,589
    edited December 1969

    dot_bat said:
    if lite is penetrating add some thickness to the walls, doesn't have to be much

    I'm trying to decided if this was a joke or not.... :)

    Even a zero thickness polygon will completely block a light that has the settings I suggested. Thickness makes no difference.

    And Evil....yeah, whatever....

  • Box8068_31c338ee4bBox8068_31c338ee4b Posts: 236
    edited December 1969

    There is an option to check 3D Shadows in the Light cone interface.[/quote
    That did it thank you! It also improved the quality of the shadows through the skylight. Wall thinkness didn't seem to have much effect.
    8068

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,695
    edited December 1969

    dot_bat said:
    if lite is penetrating add some thickness to the walls, doesn't have to be much

    I'm trying to decided if this was a joke or not.... :)

    Even a zero thickness polygon will completely block a light that has the settings I suggested. Thickness makes no difference.

    And Evil....yeah, whatever....


    being thick, I had to try it rather than making a sweeping untested statement ;-P
    since adding thickness DOES affect bullet physics, transparency etc
    well, the shadows on the thick ones look better to me!

    thickness.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 133K
  • waxfin_c9ea3eab69waxfin_c9ea3eab69 Posts: 31
    edited December 1969

    there's an old bug in carrara where light seeps at the joins of two meshes eg wall and floor - could be this

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 6,943
    edited December 1969

    Make sure that you have Cast Shadows selected on every light in your scene, and set the Shadow Intensity at 100%.

    Do that for every light in your scene. Always. In every scene from now until the end of time. And while you're at it, Select Scene and under Effects/Ambient turn Brightness down to 0%. Always. In every scene from now until the end of time.

    And don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. :)


    Still trying to determine if THIS was a joke...
    but it simply must be.

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,589
    edited December 2012

    Still trying to determine if THIS was a joke...
    but it simply must be.

    No, Dartanbeck, it was not a joke. It was a suggestion based on some intelligent, rational reasons, based on a career spent in the visual effects industry. How about you? What sort of knowledge and experience and expertise are your recommendations based on?

    When you use a light in Carrara, and set the shadow casting off, or at a value less than 100%, the light passes thru all objects in its path. It lights up stuff that shouldn't be lit. It causes nostrils to light up. It causes parts of characters to be unrealistically lit. And BTW, your avatar is a perfect example. And when people see images like that, it looks wrong. That is a fact.

    Now, I realize that many people here can't comprehend that. But just because THEY don't see it, that doesn't mean that the rest of the world doesn't see it. The vast majority of amateurish, poorly done renders exhibit this problem. Same with the Scene Ambient. It unrealistically lights up everything.

    And there are other, far better methods for getting the effect you want, rather than resorting to something that is cheap and cheesy.

    Now, you can also say that those renders are not poorly done, based solely on your perceptions and experiences, but none of that matters. If you are going to recommend a practice to someone else, recommend something that has some general merit, and that improves the quality of their renders, and applies to general audiences.

    Now if all you care about is pressing some buttons and getting a render, and couldn't care less if it's amateurish and cheesy, then fine. But don't recommend that to others.

    And maybe try ASKING someone, other than yourself and your family, what they think of your renders. Because in the real world, not everything is awesome. Some stuff is great, other stuff is cheap and cheesy. And if you care even the slightest about the artistic side of all this fun software, you'll learn the difference.

    Look guys, it's one thing to be clueless, but AT LEAST don't be arrogant about it. Show just a little bit of humility, because maybe your tiny world of experience isn't all there is. Maybe you can actually LEARN something, rather than just claiming you do.

    And to continually argue about the very basic basics is just mind boggling.

    Yes, at some point there is probably a use for both of those methods. But I guarantee that 99% of the people here have no business even trying it, until they develop a basic understanding of lighting.

    Post edited by JoeMamma2000 on
  • Box8068_31c338ee4bBox8068_31c338ee4b Posts: 236
    edited December 1969

    " Can't we all just get along: ?? ;)
    Ok here are the results of different options.
    You have all expressed valid points.
    This is a very tricky project as there is no ambient light, and the client wants the walls dead black except
    when light is shining on it, he wants the light to be white where the light hits. So any stray light coming in around the skylight
    is very noticeable. A tough situation to say the least.
    1) Holly was correct, turning on 3D shadows eliminated the light coming through the walls coming towards the camera.
    Not reflecting off a surface..
    2) Doubling walls copy and pasting with a small gap, thicker, etc, did not seem to help stray light that shouldn't be there,
    from coming through. I was sure wall shader was set to NONE on all variables, except casts shadows, and visible.
    3) Yes the problem is setting shadows to any setting except 100% hard. The problem there was I didn't like the shadows set that hard.
    If I set to 100% there was no stray unwanted light. But the shadows were black and white which looked kinda comic book.
    I tend to not use shadows 100% hard. One example would be a meter with a moving needle. If the shadow is set to 100% . The shadow was as black as the needle which made it look like two needles, so I tend to set shadows softer.
    So I am looking at three choices.
    1)Compositing, and few renders and dissolve in editing.
    2) Work with the Barn doors on the light, which in a bit of a PITA because the cone light source moves and it wasn't always perpendicular to the skylight, but I think this is the answer.
    3)Is there a way to made a lighting " Flag" in Carrara? A flat rectangle that blocks 100% of the light passing. Based on what I've learned from above I would doubt this is possible.
    Thank you ALL for your comments. I learned a lot about Carrara lighting from listening to the diverse opinions and experimenting.
    I would not have gotten this far with out your help.
    Thanks
    8068

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 7,704
    edited December 1969

    I know it's for a client, but is there a possibility of uploading some images to show what the light spill problem is exactly and what it is that you want from the scene?


    The way you describe the scene, it sounds as if there are some contradictory things going on.


    Hmmm.... Just had a thought on the unwanted light. You're not using any of the GI settings like skylight or Indirect light are you?

  • Box8068_31c338ee4bBox8068_31c338ee4b Posts: 236
    edited December 1969

    Only one single cone light.
    I'll try to post something a little later. Need to open a few Carrara sessions.
    One has great shadows, but some leakage. Some have crisp edges but bad shadows.
    To get the wall to be very white I did turn up sub surface scattering, which might contribute.
    Anyway I need to open these different sessions with different settings to show the different problems,
    and I'm a little lost as to which is which. I have to go through them to post. Seening how it's animated
    I need to look through and find the frame that reveals the issue.
    Though I am almost there with Barndoors and very very careful light settings to avoid any excessive
    light spill to begin with.
    Thanks
    8068

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 7,704
    edited December 1969

    8068 said:
    Only one single cone light.
    I'll try to post something a little later. Need to open a few Carrara sessions.
    One has great shadows, but some leakage. Some have crisp edges but bad shadows.
    To get the wall to be very white I did turn up sub surface scattering, which might contribute.
    Anyway I need to open these different sessions with different settings to show the different problems,
    and I'm a little lost as to which is which. I have to go through them to post. Seening how it's animated
    I need to look through and find the frame that reveals the issue.
    Though I am almost there with Barndoors and very very careful light settings to avoid any excessive
    light spill to begin with.
    Thanks
    8068


    Sub surface scattering is meant to mimic how light passes into something and bounces around. Maybe this is the source of your stray light. Try turning it off. If you need something super white, why not increase the intensity of the light? It would be faster to render and easier to set up.

  • RoguePilotRoguePilot Posts: 0
    edited December 2012

    I think you may be confusing shadow intensity with shadow softness and light falloff, it's important that you distinguish between them.

    Joe is right that you should avoid a light passing through objects, which is what less than 100% shadows will cause.

    You can soften the shadow effect by switching on soft shadows and setting a high enough diameter (most real world lights are about 4 inches or so wide from approx . 8 foot away). This is not the same as turning shadows down, the light will still be blocked by any geometry that should block it.

    Set the angular falloff or distance falloff to give a softer edge to the light itself, or better yet use an IES profile. Lighting manufacturers provide free ones and there are utilities to produce your own. A lighting gel will do a similar job too. These soften the edges by limiting the light so, again, will not cause any extraneous lighting.

    Post edited by RoguePilot on
  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,589
    edited December 2012

    8068 said:
    Only one single cone light.
    I'll try to post something a little later. Need to open a few Carrara sessions.
    One has great shadows, but some leakage. Some have crisp edges but bad shadows.
    To get the wall to be very white I did turn up sub surface scattering, which might contribute.
    Anyway I need to open these different sessions with different settings to show the different problems,
    and I'm a little lost as to which is which. I have to go through them to post. Seening how it's animated
    I need to look through and find the frame that reveals the issue.
    Though I am almost there with Barndoors and very very careful light settings to avoid any excessive
    light spill to begin with.
    Thanks
    8068

    Dude, I'm sorry, but you're doing work for a client, and from all I can tell from your descriptions, you have absolutely no clue what you're doing. You turned up subsurface scattering to make the walls white?? And you don't know why your shadows are so sharp?? Seems like you're trying a bunch of stuff you don't understand, and then surprised when it doesn't work.

    My suggestion:

    Stop what you're doing, tell us exactly what you're trying to accomplish, show us some images, and we will try to help. But otherwise you're just wasting people's time.

    And when you're done with this project, pick up a book on basic 3D graphics and study it.

    Post edited by JoeMamma2000 on
  • Box8068_31c338ee4bBox8068_31c338ee4b Posts: 236
    edited December 1969

    Joemamma
    With all due respect. You are not present don't know the full story and your responses are unnecessarily harsh.
    Since you asked for full details I will explain. Next time I suggest you just ignore assholes like myself.
    The project is a combination learning experience for myself, and if it works out a gift for a friend. I used the term client
    as short hand. This friend has a website with a flash animation of his logo. A light beam passing over a skylight in a hard black room.
    I used the term client as shorthand for something I do not have creative control over. In other words I can't add ambient light cover the leakage. This is a learning experience for myself. If it doesn't work out it is only a favor for a friend. He didn't even ask for it.

    I made my first attempt and it was almost perfect and only took a few hours. One small issue. I saw light coming threw a wall at a camera.
    Holly's comment about 3d shadows fixed that as well. In a few minutes. When my friend requested the light stronger whiter on the wall there were other side effects. So I'm not totally lost. and I'm not charging anyone for any services. I'm pretty happy with what I've gotten with a few words or two of advice with this forum. I've experimented with different approaches to deal with the light, so what. I'm learning not complaining. I tend to keep my posts as short as possible and not bore people with why. I believe my last post thanked all the people that chimed in said I had what I needed to do pretty much figured out with there help, and had one question. My purpose for learning Carrara is simple technical animation, no characters, or world like scenes, but a few objects on a black background and lighting has rarely been much of an issue. This favor for a friend was a small departure. As well I just switched from Carrara 6 to 8 and some of the new features are not covered in the manual.
    In any event, I thank everyone for the kind and helpful responses.
    Happy New Year.

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 7,704
    edited December 1969

    Don't worry about Joe, his bark is worse than his bite. If you can get through the sarcasm, he can have some good information. Just don't tell him there could be another way to do something, or you will hear all about how everybody here doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,589
    edited December 1969

    I get frustrated because, as Evil so forcefully pointed out in another thread, you have to presume peoples' time is precious to them. And when you get people, who are trying to help, running in 6 different directions, trying unsuccessfully to understand what you're asking, that's, IMO, rude.

    As rude as you think I am in being short with you, is almost as rude as I think it is for people to raise unclear and conflicting questions, to people who are trying to help, using their own time, and in some cases, their hard earned skills and experience.

    I don't care if you give thanks, what I care about is that you are clear in the problem so we don't waste our time running down rabbit holes. Okay?

  • JaguarEllaJaguarElla Posts: 10,695
    edited December 1969

    trolololololololololololololololololololololol!!

    ah, now I feel better!!

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I get frustrated because, as Evil so forcefully pointed out in another thread, you have to presume peoples' time is precious to them. And when you get people, who are trying to help, running in 6 different directions, trying unsuccessfully to understand what you're asking, that's, IMO, rude.

    As rude as you think I am in being short with you, is almost as rude as I think it is for people to raise unclear and conflicting questions, to people who are trying to help, using their own time, and in some cases, their hard earned skills and experience.

    I don't care if you give thanks, what I care about is that you are clear in the problem so we don't waste our time running down rabbit holes. Okay?

    Umm.. New Users do not know they are in a rabbit hole, they just need help that is helpfull, not somebody talking over thier heads WHO seems to have forgot that once in the past they were a New User that needed help also. What part of NEW USER that needs help because they need help dont you understand?

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 7,704
    edited December 1969

    trolololololololololololololololololololololol!!

    ah, now I feel better!!


    Hey Wendy, I'm forceful with my wife as well! Wink! Wink! Nudge! Nudge! A nudge' as good as a wink to blind man, eh? know-what-I-mean?!? Eh? Eh? :snake:

  • JoeMamma2000JoeMamma2000 Posts: 2,589
    edited December 1969

    You're right, Jaderail. I let my frustrations with this place get the best of me. I apologize to 8068. It was dumb of me.

  • holly wetcircuitholly wetcircuit Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hey 8068, don't forget the option of fixing or blending two renders in post... ;-)

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