Agreed. And most of the older users will fully understand. However with all the New users flocking to try out daz for free, the impression they get is something different. Just downloaded Daz, cant buy anything, forums are broken. Hmmmm screw this. That is the only danger I see here. This new market Daz is trying to capture is in a state of confusion. Frankly so am I. This upgrade should not have happened so soon. Its not like the old site lacked anything. If you want to capture a new market, make them feel comfortable. Currently this new site is anything but that at the moment. Most people will wait it out, others won’t, and that is a market loss situation that shouldn’t even happen.
The old site was being held together with bits of frayed sticky tape, and the person who used to apply the sticky tape left. We all saw what happened when the forum notifications stopped and there was no guarantee it could be fixed. Other things broke as well - things you might not be aware of - and couldn’t be fixed. Daz did an amazing job of maintaining normality in the face of it.
This upgrade is absolutely necessary in my opinion.. But Daz was between a rock and a hard place. There will always be issues during the rollout of such a major new platform. The question is, do you try not to inconvenience the current spate of of new customers and risk possibly-irreversible collapse? Or do you bite the bullet now and weather the storm to create a better experience for future customers on a much more stable platform?
I know which one I’d choose.
I think it’s up to those of us who love Daz and its products to give support during this difficult time and have faith that the better future it’s in aid of is just around the corner.
It’s not so much the forum being so messed up—yeah, I get that the bulletin board had to upgrade or go upchuck. But it’s the changes to the store that doesn’t make a lick of sense, especially after they had just (finally) completed working the bugs out from the last time they changed the store system.
On top of all the various bugs they’ve got to work out, I’ve lately noticed how I have to continously log back in (or I’ll sometimes start the DAZ session logged in as some random person!—NOT GOOD for convincing folks their accounts are still secure!!) And, yes, I’ve tried notifying the staff, but couldn’t get a PM made to them, either.
Still, I’m like so many here, willing to wait until it all gets straightened out…..
And as long as everyone here is patient with them, DAZ has absolutely no incentive to change their behavior.
I believe that you’re wrong about that.
For users, the current state of affairs is frustrating. For DAZ, it’s probably costing real money. The problems with the store are almost certainly having a measurable effect on DAZ’s bottom line, with users unable to purchase or putting off purchasing until the store seems more stable. The ‘half-baked’ nature of the forums is another disincentive to spend time there, meaning that people aren’t exposed to new products or involved with the DAZ community in the same way, again leading to loss of sales. If we could see the sales figures for online 3D vendors, we’d probably see DAZ’s numbers taking a big dive, and some of their competitors perhaps picking up a bit.
So yes, it’s annoying that things don’t work right. However, for DAZ it’s very much more than annoying: it’s actually business-critical. You can be sure that they want it fixed even more than you do.
But it’s the changes to the store that doesn’t make a lick of sense, especially after they had just (finally) completed working the bugs out from the last time they changed the store system.
Except that they weren’t, which was the whole point - the previous update was an attempt to grapple with long-standing issues, but it served to show that the basic code needed to be replaced and that’s why they moved to the new system. The forum change was a consequence of that change, not the object of the exercise.
However, for DAZ it’s very much more than annoying: it’s actually business-critical. You can be sure that they want it fixed even more than you do.
That last sentence is probably even more true than you realise.
Trust me, I realize exactly how true that sentence is.
tsarist - 04 June 2012 12:19 PM
The poor sod in the web crew is probably developing a terrible nervous condition by now. I don’t envy him at all.
Hell, no. I’m a web developer. I have a very good idea of what happens when a product fails to launch as planned, and I have nothing but the deepest sympathy for the DAZ web team. Every time I look at the store, I feel a pang of empathy for them all. I hope they’re getting some sleep.
If they’re smart, they’ll be working at it methodically, rather than going into flat panic mode. For users, this means that things may seem to be moving slowly, but in situations like this it’s generally better to work through it calmly and deliberately, rather than running around in a frenzy sixteen hours a day, slapping Band-Aids on everything you can see. The final result is usually more solid, and you lose fewer developers to chronic exhaustion and nervous collapse.
and you lose fewer developers to chronic exhaustion and nervous collapse.
And to stabbing and strangulation.
Ah, I see you’re familiar with the way the software industry works. Although, as not all managers understand, stabbing and strangulation can flow both ways.
Or indeed can originate from the forum team. Not that i wish to lend any credibility to the outrageous rumours about our attempting to hire a hit squad, our request for photos of the web team was entirely unconnected with the trip to Atlantic City.
It would be lovely if we could all gather around the fire, toast marshmallows and wait it out…. maybe even smoking some of those peace pipes.
However, I do see people in here who’s business depends on being able to shop and buy in an efficient manner… that is not really possible. As a member of the PC club, I have certain expectations, I paid to have those expectations… those are now screwed up. No one is compensating me for being patient. I did not sign up to be patient. Maybe someday whe things are running well again? I may revisit this patient thing… but the BIGGEST reason I am very frustrated, is LACK OF COMMUNICATION FROM DAZ UPPER MANAGEMENT, ON A REGULAR BASIS!
I know the forum Admins and Mods are trying their best, but telling me, “everything is gonna be fine”, is not really helping. It only makes many people more angry.
Now, at least I do have the decency to come here and make my honest feelings known, not post hate on other sites. I don’t know if that counts for anything?
Now, I have always believed people should not complain unless they want to offer some solutions… so, here goes some...
Start a single thread for all new releases,
1) If they are on sale, list the end date.
2) Include one pic, The one that best shows the product being sold. Link to the store thread.
3) List any dependencies, or any accessories - post store links.
4) Allow no comments about the products in the thread. Make it clean to read, and move on. Comments can be made in other (questions/comments) thread..
. Start another thread for sales
1) If Daz runs a promo or a PAs store goes on sale, list it here…
2) List what is on sale and give a link to see all the items.
3) Clearly state the end of sale date.
. Start an Updates thread
1) Post something everyday. Make it specific and measurable.
2) Post needs to be made, or introduced by one of the top level managers.
Put a warning on the front page of the store directing people to the forum for information.
. Now stuff like that would help
I hear you Wiccan and agree with a lot of your post.
I do this stuff professionally and depend on this place, but I have been lucky enough to own most of what I have needed lately or was able to find a few items elsewhere.
The people I feel really bad for (besides the Web Guys at Daz) is the PA’s. Especially ones who sell here exclusively. Some of these people, if I remember correctly, get most of their money from sales. If people can’t buy, they can’t get paid. Unlike you or I, they can’t just pick up and go to another site (not easily).
I’ll just keep sending Daz positive energy thoughts and hope they don’t kill each other before this is all through
I fully understand that the staff at DAZ is not sitting idly by and twiddling their thumbs… or other body parts… I hope… especially the last part about the other body parts, since that is a rather horrible mental image made worse by the fact that at one time or other I have looked at the DAZ staff photos in the “About Us” section… (which by the way does not exist anymore, even though there is a link to that page… seems to me like they wanna see who survives this, before they start putting up pictures)... So yeah, I hope nobody is twiddling stuff and they are all working happily away like psychotically stressed out little elves the day before christmas… But anyway… Well… I’m not wishing stress on them… I just hope they are fixing the broken stuff… which is like almost everything, but I’m pretty sure it is almost all done by now… or not… either way my point is that I know to some extent the staff at DAZ is working as diligently as humanly (and whatever other species work at DAZ) possible… and that, however ridiculously impossible that goal may be, they will reach that goal or die trying… and even though the upper management at DAZ is stocking up on shovels and lye, they too are feeling the pain, primarily in from the fumes of the unwashed staff abandoning personal hygiene in favor of problem solving… and not twiddling… God I’m really stuck on the twiddling part… why did DAZ have to show pictures of themselves… brrr, now I’m gonna have bad dreams…
This is bad… But I digress… NO TWIDDLING!!
My original point was something about… ?... oh yeah! The DAZ staff is working hard and not twiddling anything… BUT ... That will not stop me from making annoying little snarky and sarcastic comments… mainly because I feel I owe it to all of you… both forumites and twiddlers (I mean DAZ staff)...
See… where I come from thats how you show love… (I’m half German/half Italian… do the math)... you do annoying little things and you make fun of them at their funeral to show people you care and are thinking of them.
If you bring your new car to my house to show it to me and I say I think it was a “good choice”, even though I see it has no brakes and there is a dead badger sticking out of the glovebox… well, I’d be lying to you… right? What kind of a friend doesn’t make light of the fact that you drove into their fence or ask what name they have given to the rotting badger? Magento would be a great name for a rotting badger in my opinion, by the way. If you ask me if you look fat in those jeans and I say “no” and then you get harpooned by walrus hunters, who am I helping besides the walrus hunters? Nobody. Well maybe your next of kin if you have life insurance and they were gonna kill you anyway, but thats not the point… walrus hunters should not be roaming the streets harpooning people with bad taste in jeans… wait ... that wasn’t my point either… something about life insurance? Oh yeah… sugar coating a rotting badger helps nobody except the person who was going to call it duck a l’orange and serve to unsuspecting tourists and that is how you tell people you care about them… you tell them, they look colossal in those ugly pants and their badger is spoiled… BUT you say it in a funny way! You poke fun at them and let them know you are thinking of them and what a bad choices in software they lean towards, all because you love them and want them to succeed or at least laugh as they are dying of frustration and lack twiddling time (I’m back to that again,hu?)...
So yeah… I sympathize, but I will not stop laughing at your fat pants and rotting badger.
Oh and no twiddling please…
I fully understand that the staff at DAZ is not sitting idly by and twiddling their thumbs… or other body parts… I hope… especially the last part about the other body parts, since that is a rather horrible mental image made worse by the fact that at one time or other I have looked at the DAZ staff photos in the “About Us” section… ..