We need to be Patient with Daz. it will all work out

Fay68Fay68 Posts: 0
edited June 2012 in The Commons

I fortunately have a lot of patients and I know that Daz will work out all of the major kinks. When it comes to technology there us no way to predict all of these glitches until you actually put something in motion. I know there will always be something but unless you can see the future there is no way to know to what extent it will be.

I personally know of a company that was trying to bring in a new system that would actually make their jobs easier and it took 3 months. It will take time and a little patients. Trust me I am sure that the people at Daz are just as frustrated as we are actually probably more.

Post edited by Fay68 on
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Comments

  • natrix natrixnatrix natrix Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Thank you Doc

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 3,580
    edited December 1969

    Agreed. And most of the older users will fully understand. However with all the New users flocking to try out daz for free, the impression they get is something different. Just downloaded Daz, cant buy anything, forums are broken. Hmmmm screw this. That is the only danger I see here. This new market Daz is trying to capture is in a state of confusion. Frankly so am I. This upgrade should not have happened so soon. Its not like the old site lacked anything. If you want to capture a new market, make them feel comfortable. Currently this new site is anything but that at the moment. Most people will wait it out, others won't, and that is a market loss situation that shouldn't even happen.

  • LoaarLoaar Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I'm happy to be patient as they work the issues out, I'm a little busy right now anyway and the forced break from DAZ has been very timely, but I would like them to be better at communicating with us.


    So far their official communication has been poor at best.

  • MarieahMarieah Posts: 521
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    Agreed. And most of the older users will fully understand. However with all the New users flocking to try out daz for free, the impression they get is something different. Just downloaded Daz, cant buy anything, forums are broken. Hmmmm screw this. That is the only danger I see here. This new market Daz is trying to capture is in a state of confusion. Frankly so am I. This upgrade should not have happened so soon. Its not like the old site lacked anything. If you want to capture a new market, make them feel comfortable. Currently this new site is anything but that at the moment. Most people will wait it out, others won't, and that is a market loss situation that shouldn't even happen.

    The old site was being held together with bits of frayed sticky tape, and the person who used to apply the sticky tape left. We all saw what happened when the forum notifications stopped and there was no guarantee it could be fixed. Other things broke as well - things you might not be aware of - and couldn't be fixed. Daz did an amazing job of maintaining normality in the face of it.

    This upgrade is absolutely necessary in my opinion.. But Daz was between a rock and a hard place. There will always be issues during the rollout of such a major new platform. The question is, do you try not to inconvenience the current spate of of new customers and risk possibly-irreversible collapse? Or do you bite the bullet now and weather the storm to create a better experience for future customers on a much more stable platform?

    I know which one I'd choose.

    I think it's up to those of us who love Daz and its products to give support during this difficult time and have faith that the better future it's in aid of is just around the corner.

  • mrposermrposer Posts: 763
    edited December 1969

    Actually for me it hasn't been as bad as I've read from others... I have been able to bumble around and get my orders placed and adjust to the new quirks of the store and the forums. In the back of my mind... knowing Daz... I can't wait for the super sales they will have when this is resolved and they make it all up to us. So I agree with the Doctor... have patients... and try to keep them from going crazy.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    All I can say is DAZ has my support. Sure I miss the old site but I look at it like this, I'm learning something new FORUM wise and that keeps my brain working. If you don't exersice your mind it gets soft just like a muscle you never use. As for the store I've only had 1 small hiccup and that was all. I trust the DAZ team will pull all this together soon enough.

  • DWGDWG Posts: 772
    edited June 2012

    Fay68 said:

    When it comes to technology there us no way to predict all of these glitches until you actually put something in motion.

    Speaking as a software engineer with a couple of decades experience on far more complex systems, proper testing should identify the majority of issues before anything is put in motion. I fully agree the website needed to be updated, but personally I'd have rolled back to the old site when things weren't up and running smoothly by the first Saturday or Sunday, spent more time testing and fixing the issues that had been revealed and then re-launched in a week or two.

    Post edited by DWG on
  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 957
    edited December 1969

    DWG said:
    Fay68 said:

    When it comes to technology there us no way to predict all of these glitches until you actually put something in motion.

    Speaking as a software engineer with a couple of decades experience on far more complex systems, proper testing should identify the majority of issues before anything is put in motion. I fully agree the website needed to be updated, but personally I'd have rolled back to the old site when things weren't up and running smoothly by the first Saturday or Sunday, spent more time testing and fixing the issues that had been revealed and then re-launched in a week or two.


    Agreed.

    Doing things the way they're doing it is like trying to fix your car while driving down the road. They would be under a LOT less pressure to get things fixed.


    Wishing them the best of luck in what will most certainly be a VERY long week.

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Been here long enough to know this is SOP for DAZ. And why I have pretty well given up on DAZ.

  • stumpcstumpc Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    This is testing the limits of all patience I'm afraid, nice gesture though but it looks as though things will take longer than any expected nor will be tolerated.Tough road ahead for sure.

  • TimesurferTimesurfer Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I, for one, have lots of patience with Daz.... they have always been a great company for me.

  • edited December 1969

    Jaderail said:
    If you don't exersice your mind it gets soft just like a muscle you never use.

    Awww...man I have to exercise my mind too!?! :ohh:

    *starts brain exercises*

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  • Fay68Fay68 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    DWG said:
    Fay68 said:

    When it comes to technology there us no way to predict all of these glitches until you actually put something in motion.

    Speaking as a software engineer with a couple of decades experience on far more complex systems, proper testing should identify the majority of issues before anything is put in motion. I fully agree the website needed to be updated, but personally I'd have rolled back to the old site when things weren't up and running smoothly by the first Saturday or Sunday, spent more time testing and fixing the issues that had been revealed and then re-launched in a week or two.

    I agree, However I am seeing another place have issues after spending months preparing and trying out their new system before they went live. Unfortunately after they thought they had everything ironed out and went live a whole new host of problems appeared. The truth is nothing is ever going to go perfect a 100% of the time. There are definitely better ways to do things sometimes we all jump the gun.

  • edited December 1969

    Marieah said:
    The old site was being held together with bits of frayed sticky tape, and the person who used to apply the sticky tape left.

    omg... was it Drew Daniels...

    we should not have been so mean to him...

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 957
    edited December 1969

    TZORG said:
    Marieah said:
    The old site was being held together with bits of frayed sticky tape, and the person who used to apply the sticky tape left.

    omg... was it Drew Daniels...

    we should not have been so mean to him...

    Drew is gone?


    Guess we shouldn't have beat him so bad.

  • Ryuu@AMcCFRyuu@AMcCF Posts: 220
    edited December 1969

    Marieah said:
    Zev0 said:
    Agreed. And most of the older users will fully understand. However with all the New users flocking to try out daz for free, the impression they get is something different. Just downloaded Daz, cant buy anything, forums are broken. Hmmmm screw this. That is the only danger I see here. This new market Daz is trying to capture is in a state of confusion. Frankly so am I. This upgrade should not have happened so soon. Its not like the old site lacked anything. If you want to capture a new market, make them feel comfortable. Currently this new site is anything but that at the moment. Most people will wait it out, others won't, and that is a market loss situation that shouldn't even happen.

    The old site was being held together with bits of frayed sticky tape, and the person who used to apply the sticky tape left. We all saw what happened when the forum notifications stopped and there was no guarantee it could be fixed. Other things broke as well - things you might not be aware of - and couldn't be fixed. Daz did an amazing job of maintaining normality in the face of it.

    This upgrade is absolutely necessary in my opinion.. But Daz was between a rock and a hard place. There will always be issues during the rollout of such a major new platform. The question is, do you try not to inconvenience the current spate of of new customers and risk possibly-irreversible collapse? Or do you bite the bullet now and weather the storm to create a better experience for future customers on a much more stable platform?

    I know which one I'd choose.

    I think it's up to those of us who love Daz and its products to give support during this difficult time and have faith that the better future it's in aid of is just around the corner.

    Yeah, we know...."Soon!"©®™ ;-)

    It's not so much the forum being so messed up--yeah, I get that the bulletin board had to upgrade or go upchuck. But it's the changes to the store that doesn't make a lick of sense, especially after they had just (finally) completed working the bugs out from the last time they changed the store system.

    On top of all the various bugs they've got to work out, I've lately noticed how I have to continously log back in (or I'll sometimes start the DAZ session logged in as some random person!--NOT GOOD for convincing folks their accounts are still secure!!) And, yes, I've tried notifying the staff, but couldn't get a PM made to them, either.

    Still, I'm like so many here, willing to wait until it all gets straightened out.....:down:

  • ssgbryanssgbryan Posts: 690
    edited December 1969

    And as long as everyone here is patient with them, DAZ has absolutely no incentive to change their behavior.

    The maximum range of an excuse is 0 meters.

  • bytescapesbytescapes Posts: 489
    edited December 1969

    ssgbryan said:
    And as long as everyone here is patient with them, DAZ has absolutely no incentive to change their behavior.

    I believe that you're wrong about that.

    For users, the current state of affairs is frustrating. For DAZ, it's probably costing real money. The problems with the store are almost certainly having a measurable effect on DAZ's bottom line, with users unable to purchase or putting off purchasing until the store seems more stable. The 'half-baked' nature of the forums is another disincentive to spend time there, meaning that people aren't exposed to new products or involved with the DAZ community in the same way, again leading to loss of sales. If we could see the sales figures for online 3D vendors, we'd probably see DAZ's numbers taking a big dive, and some of their competitors perhaps picking up a bit.

    So yes, it's annoying that things don't work right. However, for DAZ it's very much more than annoying: it's actually business-critical. You can be sure that they want it fixed even more than you do.

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 957
    edited December 1969

    angusm said:
    However, for DAZ it's very much more than annoying: it's actually business-critical. You can be sure that they want it fixed even more than you do.

    That last sentence is probably even more true than you realise.


    The poor sod in the web crew is probably developing a terrible nervous condition by now.


    I don't envy him at all.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,369
    edited December 1969

    But it's the changes to the store that doesn't make a lick of sense, especially after they had just (finally) completed working the bugs out from the last time they changed the store system.

    Except that they weren't, which was the whole point - the previous update was an attempt to grapple with long-standing issues, but it served to show that the basic code needed to be replaced and that's why they moved to the new system. The forum change was a consequence of that change, not the object of the exercise.

  • bytescapesbytescapes Posts: 489
    edited December 1969

    tsarist said:
    angusm said:
    However, for DAZ it's very much more than annoying: it's actually business-critical. You can be sure that they want it fixed even more than you do.

    That last sentence is probably even more true than you realise.

    Trust me, I realize exactly how true that sentence is. :)

    The poor sod in the web crew is probably developing a terrible nervous condition by now. I don't envy him at all.

    Hell, no. I'm a web developer. I have a very good idea of what happens when a product fails to launch as planned, and I have nothing but the deepest sympathy for the DAZ web team. Every time I look at the store, I feel a pang of empathy for them all. I hope they're getting some sleep.

    If they're smart, they'll be working at it methodically, rather than going into flat panic mode. For users, this means that things may seem to be moving slowly, but in situations like this it's generally better to work through it calmly and deliberately, rather than running around in a frenzy sixteen hours a day, slapping Band-Aids on everything you can see. The final result is usually more solid, and you lose fewer developers to chronic exhaustion and nervous collapse.

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 957
    edited December 1969

    angusm said:
    and you lose fewer developers to chronic exhaustion and nervous collapse.

    And to stabbing and strangulation.


    :coolsmile:

  • bytescapesbytescapes Posts: 489
    edited December 1969

    tsarist said:
    angusm said:
    and you lose fewer developers to chronic exhaustion and nervous collapse.

    And to stabbing and strangulation.

    Ah, I see you're familiar with the way the software industry works. Although, as not all managers understand, stabbing and strangulation can flow both ways.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,369
    edited December 1969

    angusm said:
    tsarist said:
    angusm said:
    and you lose fewer developers to chronic exhaustion and nervous collapse.

    And to stabbing and strangulation.

    Ah, I see you're familiar with the way the software industry works. Although, as not all managers understand, stabbing and strangulation can flow both ways.

    Or indeed can originate from the forum team. Not that i wish to lend any credibility to the outrageous rumours about our attempting to hire a hit squad, our request for photos of the web team was entirely unconnected with the trip to Atlantic City.

  • Wiccan1Wiccan1 Posts: 165
    edited June 2012

    It would be lovely if we could all gather around the fire, toast marshmallows and wait it out.... maybe even smoking some of those peace pipes.
    .

    However, I do see people in here who's business depends on being able to shop and buy in an efficient manner... that is not really possible. As a member of the PC club, I have certain expectations, I paid to have those expectations... those are now screwed up. No one is compensating me for being patient. I did not sign up to be patient. Maybe someday whe things are running well again? I may revisit this patient thing... but the BIGGEST reason I am very frustrated, is LACK OF COMMUNICATION FROM DAZ UPPER MANAGEMENT, ON A REGULAR BASIS!
    .

    I know the forum Admins and Mods are trying their best, but telling me, "everything is gonna be fine", is not really helping. It only makes many people more angry.
    .

    Now, at least I do have the decency to come here and make my honest feelings known, not post hate on other sites. I don't know if that counts for anything?
    .

    Now, I have always believed people should not complain unless they want to offer some solutions... so, here goes some...
    .

    Start a single thread for all new releases,
    1) If they are on sale, list the end date.
    2) Include one pic, The one that best shows the product being sold. Link to the store thread.
    3) List any dependencies, or any accessories - post store links.
    4) Allow no comments about the products in the thread. Make it clean to read, and move on. Comments can be made in other (questions/comments) thread..
    .
    Start another thread for sales
    1) If Daz runs a promo or a PAs store goes on sale, list it here...
    2) List what is on sale and give a link to see all the items.
    3) Clearly state the end of sale date.
    .
    Start an Updates thread
    1) Post something everyday. Make it specific and measurable.
    2) Post needs to be made, or introduced by one of the top level managers.

    Put a warning on the front page of the store directing people to the forum for information.
    .
    Now stuff like that would help :)
    .

    Post edited by Wiccan1 on
  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 957
    edited December 1969

    I hear you Wiccan and agree with a lot of your post.


    I do this stuff professionally and depend on this place, but I have been lucky enough to own most of what I have needed lately or was able to find a few items elsewhere.


    The people I feel really bad for (besides the Web Guys at Daz) is the PA's. Especially ones who sell here exclusively. Some of these people, if I remember correctly, get most of their money from sales. If people can't buy, they can't get paid. Unlike you or I, they can't just pick up and go to another site (not easily).


    I'll just keep sending Daz positive energy thoughts and hope they don't kill each other before this is all through


    Best of luck!

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 943
    edited December 1969

    I fully understand that the staff at DAZ is not sitting idly by and twiddling their thumbs... or other body parts... I hope... especially the last part about the other body parts, since that is a rather horrible mental image made worse by the fact that at one time or other I have looked at the DAZ staff photos in the "About Us" section... (which by the way does not exist anymore, even though there is a link to that page... seems to me like they wanna see who survives this, before they start putting up pictures)... So yeah, I hope nobody is twiddling stuff and they are all working happily away like psychotically stressed out little elves the day before christmas... But anyway... Well... I'm not wishing stress on them... I just hope they are fixing the broken stuff... which is like almost everything, but I'm pretty sure it is almost all done by now... or not... either way my point is that I know to some extent the staff at DAZ is working as diligently as humanly (and whatever other species work at DAZ) possible... and that, however ridiculously impossible that goal may be, they will reach that goal or die trying... and even though the upper management at DAZ is stocking up on shovels and lye, they too are feeling the pain, primarily in from the fumes of the unwashed staff abandoning personal hygiene in favor of problem solving... and not twiddling... God I'm really stuck on the twiddling part... why did DAZ have to show pictures of themselves... brrr, now I'm gonna have bad dreams...
    This is bad... But I digress... NO TWIDDLING!!
    My original point was something about... ?... oh yeah! The DAZ staff is working hard and not twiddling anything... BUT ... That will not stop me from making annoying little snarky and sarcastic comments... mainly because I feel I owe it to all of you... both forumites and twiddlers (I mean DAZ staff)...
    See... where I come from thats how you show love... (I'm half German/half Italian... do the math)... you do annoying little things and you make fun of them at their funeral to show people you care and are thinking of them.
    If you bring your new car to my house to show it to me and I say I think it was a "good choice", even though I see it has no brakes and there is a dead badger sticking out of the glovebox... well, I'd be lying to you... right? What kind of a friend doesn't make light of the fact that you drove into their fence or ask what name they have given to the rotting badger? Magento would be a great name for a rotting badger in my opinion, by the way. If you ask me if you look fat in those jeans and I say "no" and then you get harpooned by walrus hunters, who am I helping besides the walrus hunters? Nobody. Well maybe your next of kin if you have life insurance and they were gonna kill you anyway, but thats not the point... walrus hunters should not be roaming the streets harpooning people with bad taste in jeans... wait ... that wasn't my point either... something about life insurance? Oh yeah... sugar coating a rotting badger helps nobody except the person who was going to call it duck a l'orange and serve to unsuspecting tourists and that is how you tell people you care about them... you tell them, they look colossal in those ugly pants and their badger is spoiled... BUT you say it in a funny way! You poke fun at them and let them know you are thinking of them and what a bad choices in software they lean towards, all because you love them and want them to succeed or at least laugh as they are dying of frustration and lack twiddling time (I'm back to that again,hu?)...
    So yeah... I sympathize, but I will not stop laughing at your fat pants and rotting badger.
    Oh and no twiddling please...

  • ShaneWSmithShaneWSmith Posts: 517
    edited December 1969

    I, for one, have lots of patience with Daz.... they have always been a great company for me.

    I second this sentiment.

  • MurgatroydMurgatroyd Posts: 573
    edited December 1969

    They have my patience.
    They have my sympathy.

    However...
    Until things are fixed, they do not have my money.

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 957
    edited December 1969

    I fully understand that the staff at DAZ is not sitting idly by and twiddling their thumbs... or other body parts... I hope... especially the last part about the other body parts, since that is a rather horrible mental image made worse by the fact that at one time or other I have looked at the DAZ staff photos in the "About Us" section... ..

    I really did NOT need that image in my head.

    LOL!

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