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Does Carrara Pro do it all?
Posted: 19 December 2012 03:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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3DAGE - 19 December 2012 11:13 AM

HI Kharma smile

why don’t they update the manual along with the program?  even just an addon with new functions and features ....Just curious

Because as the new features develop,. they change,. so they would be constantly updating the doc’s to reflect those changes.

0oseven says - thats no less than they ought to do wink

the Carrara 7 manual covers more than 90 % of how to use Carrara. and is still applicable to C8. or 8.5

0oseven says - It’s the missing10% that bothers us. I dont think we expect updates to cover betas Just the Public release of a new version which currently would be 8.1- it must be 3 or4 years since the last manual   tongue laugh

Here’s a basic guide to using Bullet,.. which has been changes and updated several times.

0oseven says - Where and when did this little gem come from ?( not a Daz Release I presume)
and thanks to the Author (3dage ?) but the several changes you mention were they in version8.1 or the new beta ?
grin
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7907045/First_step_Physics_C8.pdf

Hope it helps smile

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Posted: 19 December 2012 03:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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0oseven - 19 December 2012 03:17 PM
3DAGE - 19 December 2012 11:13 AM

HI Kharma smile

why don’t they update the manual along with the program?  even just an addon with new functions and features ....Just curious

Because as the new features develop,. they change,. so they would be constantly updating the doc’s to reflect those changes.

0oseven says - thats no less than they ought to do wink

 

Yeah, the whole “they can’t update the manual cuz the software always changes” argument is just silly. Of course the software always changes, but if they waited for the software to stop changing they’d never make a manual. Carrara has been changing since it first came out many years ago.

Now if they had a dedicated tech writer assigned to update the manual, it wouldn’t be an issue. That person could be continuously updating the manual as needed, at regular intervals. The fact is (I believe) that they don’t have a dedicated tech writer, so they work on the manual when and if they can find someone with the time to spend on it. Which is never.

Small company, limited resources, and that’s why we pay so little for the software. Totally understandable. But don’t blame it on the fact the software is always changing. That’s kinda like saying you can’t get a haircut because your hair is always growing.

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Posted: 20 December 2012 07:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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0oseven says - Where and when did this little gem come from ?( not a Daz Release I presume)
and thanks to the Author (3dage ?) but the several changes you mention were they in version8.1 or the new beta ?

I wrote the Bullet physics (first steps) thing, as a way to help others get into using Bullet.
It was first written when Bullet was added to C8, but has been revised to add the changes to features and the UI layout as the developers change how bullet functions in the C8.5 beta.

I’m glad it’s helpful

I’ve also done a (First steps) introduction to getting started in Carrara and some other stuff on UV Mapping, 3D Painting etc

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7907045/Carrara_first_steps.zip

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Posted: 20 December 2012 10:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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JoeMamma2000 - 19 December 2012 03:01 PM
evilproducer - 19 December 2012 11:44 AM

One needs look no further than a Howie Farkes scene to see hpw well Carrara can do environments.

Uh, yeah, but that’s like saying “Carrara can render great environments if it has great environments to render”. Little to do with Carrara, a lot to do with Howie Farkes.

What it does to well is handle scenes with HUGE poly counts very well. And also includes some decent, prepackaged environment elements. But it’s vastly different from, say, Vue. Which makes sense, because it’s not designed to be what Vue is.

I can’t resist a little jab to Daz here… Carrara’s renderer is pretty good, but it really could use some work. This is not to say Bryce, or Daz Studio are any better - I think they’re all about the same - may even use the same engine. I just think they all need some improvement to keep up with the industry leaders.

 

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Posted: 20 December 2012 10:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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dbuchter - 20 December 2012 10:27 AM
JoeMamma2000 - 19 December 2012 03:01 PM
evilproducer - 19 December 2012 11:44 AM

One needs look no further than a Howie Farkes scene to see hpw well Carrara can do environments.

Uh, yeah, but that’s like saying “Carrara can render great environments if it has great environments to render”. Little to do with Carrara, a lot to do with Howie Farkes.

What it does to well is handle scenes with HUGE poly counts very well. And also includes some decent, prepackaged environment elements. But it’s vastly different from, say, Vue. Which makes sense, because it’s not designed to be what Vue is.

I can’t resist a little jab to Daz here… Carrara’s renderer is pretty good, but it really could use some work. This is not to say Bryce, or Daz Studio are any better - I think they’re all about the same - may even use the same engine. I just think they all need some improvement to keep up with the industry leaders.

 

This is how misinformation starts. Carrara, Bryce and DAZ Studio all have DIFFERENT render engines. Carrara’s is more up to date than Bryce’s and DAZ Studio uses 3Delight which is the same core render engine used in the pro expensive version.

Where Carrara could be improved is the use of better defaults and documentation.

It’s amazing what it can do in the right hands. It is still very fast and very good. But you can’t just willy nilly decide on settings and pick the wrong light colors and sources. The bad renders out of Carrara are due to people who don’t know what they are doing, including myself for many years. Unfortunately, there are not enough people using the software who do know what they are doing who are willing to share. You have to really dig to get good info.

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Posted: 20 December 2012 12:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Kevin Sanderson - 20 December 2012 10:37 AM

This is how misinformation starts. Carrara, Bryce and DAZ Studio all have DIFFERENT render engines. Carrara’s is more up to date than Bryce’s and DAZ Studio uses 3Delight which is the same core render engine used in the pro expensive version.

Where Carrara could be improved is the use of better defaults and documentation.

It’s amazing what it can do in the right hands. It is still very fast and very good. But you can’t just willy nilly decide on settings and pick the wrong light colors and sources. The bad renders out of Carrara are due to people who don’t know what they are doing, including myself for many years. Unfortunately, there are not enough people using the software who do know what they are doing who are willing to share. You have to really dig to get good info.

I agree.

I have never seen a plant modeller tutorial, except for adding a new “leaf” object….

A human hair tutorial is long over due.

More deep shader tutorials are really needed.

I see people saying they want more “defaults”, but the fundamental problem with that is the assumption that there are just settings you should load in and boop you’re done…. I started building some starter scenes for myself, but you know what? it’s seriously just as easy to change the settings as I hit the point where a step up in resolution or AA quality is needed… As I am piecing together a scene, the “low end” settings are faster/better…. Once I have most of the elements in place and start needing a finer texture quality, I am far into the process… slower high-res test renders are not a help when you are starting a scene….

One thing I would change is the default Targa renders, I don’t know who uses Targa or what decade they were invented… I also don’t know where the temp Targa renders are saved. They do not appear as renders in the temp folder, like most formats do… Are they hogging vertual memory?

In my opinion encouraging people to PRACTICE with Carrara is better… It’s like sailing, or cooking, or playing piano…. You can read a tutorial, but that’s not going to take you to the next level where you can DO things. I think we should host more “challenge” threads to get people using and discussing the range of possibilities when you learn the controls…. That’s something that presets really can NOT do… Presets actually prevent you from learning the controls, imo. I realize that goes against the DAZ philosophy, but I’m sure we will all agree that the DAZ way doesn’t always benefit Carrara users…

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Posted: 20 December 2012 04:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Mark Bremmer, in one of his tutorials (VTC Tutorials for Carrara) makes this remark

” With Carrara Daz gave you a Ferrari and then threw you the keys “

I think thats a great observation because I think many people (including me ) just dont grasp the power of Carrara under the hood:

I think Holly is right about “practice”  like driving the car youve got to be behind the wheel and not always reading the manual but they go hand in hand and guidance from a few experts always needed.

Holly - mark has an excellent over one hour of video on hair in the tutorials from VTC. I find his style of tutorial a cut above others .He explains every move he makes and doesnt assume you know too much. Unfortunately he only covers up to Version 7 but well worth getting anyway.

My problem is just remembering everything !!!!:roll:

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Posted: 20 December 2012 04:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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I have a slightly different version of Mark’s analogy….

To me it’s more like, DAZ hands over a 767 airliner, together with a slightly outdated user manual, to someone who has never flown an airplane before.

And the new user ‘learns how to fly’ by looking at all the dials and knobs and displays, and poking them with a stick, not really knowing what they do, but trying to figure them out. Kinda ‘reverse engineering’ the aircraft. And occasionally they’ll check the user manual for some help.

But they never actually learn how to fly (which, of course, isn’t covered in an airliner’s user manual), they just figure out (or think they’ve figured out…) what some of the more important knobs and levers and displays are. And from that they decide to try to fly the thing.

And then when they crash they get upset and blame DAZ for an outdated manual.  smile

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Posted: 20 December 2012 06:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Very Good Joe !

Anyone else have an analogy of their experience with carrara ?

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Posted: 20 December 2012 07:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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The Carrara book, written around the time of C5 provided some ah-ha moments for me…. But that was long before so many wonderful tutorials were online by a diversity of people.

Manuals aren’t always as helpful as they should be… DAZ threatened to start a wiki and we were all suppose to help update it, but it never went “live” and we weren’t allowed to log in to update the info… A wiki was suppose to move the “manual” into the modern age…

Nevertheless, there is valuable info in the manual. To refuse to read it because it is for C7 is silly. The program hasn’t changed that much and everything in the manual is still valid in C8. At best there are a few new aspects to some features (Bullet is not that different than the “old” physics, for example, it just works better).

And it has been said 100 times so I will say it 101…, get the lighting books by Jeremy Birn! http://www.3drender.com/light/index.html
They actually explain SO MUCH that applies universally across any 3D program. You just have to figure out what Carrara calls the features he describes, but you learn industry terms for things.

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Posted: 20 December 2012 08:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Kevin Sanderson - 20 December 2012 10:37 AM

....This is how misinformation starts. Carrara, Bryce and DAZ Studio all have DIFFERENT render engines. Carrara’s is more up to date than Bryce’s and DAZ Studio uses 3Delight which is the same core render engine used in the pro expensive version….


True, but regarding the 3Delight renderer, from what I’ve read it is extremely hobbled because they give D/S away. I don’t know if D/S Pro has a more full featured version or not.

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Posted: 20 December 2012 08:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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0oseven - 20 December 2012 06:36 PM

Very Good Joe !

Anyone else have an analogy of their experience with carrara ?

Cute.

In any case, regarding renderers, I’m guessing that nowdays what most consider “good” renderers are the ones with the cool and fancy features that update their renders while you watch and make changes, and you can get those realistic renders real easily, and do it ‘a lot faster’ than those other renderers.

I doubt that a careful consideration of the quality and abilities of the renderers on the market, including comparisons with the non-fancy ones, is really the issue.

So yeah, Carrara’s renderer is ancient and not nearly as good. But DAZ Studio is good because of that cool render plugin.

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Posted: 20 December 2012 08:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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You mean the plugin that takes four days with multiple passes to render a 640X480 image?

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Posted: 20 December 2012 09:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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evilproducer - 20 December 2012 08:57 PM

You mean the plugin that takes four days with multiple passes to render a 640X480 image?

you could always export it to Blender and let cycles chew on it for a week

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Posted: 20 December 2012 09:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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holly wetcircuit - 20 December 2012 07:01 PM

The Carrara book, written around the time of C5 provided some ah-ha moments for me…. But that was long before so many wonderful tutorials were online by a diversity of people.


Nevertheless, there is valuable info in the manual. To refuse to read it because it is for C7 is silly. The program hasn’t changed that much and everything in the manual is still valid in C8. .

I just HAVE to respond to this wink

I dont think anyone “refused’ to read the manuals that are available. They probably have read them. What users are asking for is an updated manual meaning, i’m sure, they want the manual to include the new features and changes since the last publication   Even a supplement would suffice. The situation will worsen if when 8.5 is publicly released if they still have not provided up to date coverage.

puppeteer might be an example -  whilst I have more or less answered my questions after many hours trying to suss it out I believe the manual would have made a big difference, in time at least..Even the Infinite skills video tutorial I paid for didnt cover it properly.

Totally agree with you about the fine videos online - we always need those bu7t with Daz putting effort into free training videos for Studio maybe its time they did the same for carrara. Many companies are putting free training vids of their products on youtube because I think they realise the marketing value they have. Hitfilm for example.

I might take up your suggestion on the lighting book though smile

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