Digital Art Zone

I am in the process of cleaning up my DS installation.
A huge part of that was to assign categories to all files in my runtime.

The goal each day was to have no files left in Categories/Unassigned.

For quite some time now I have struggled with the fact that always some files remain without a category:

- Geometry files (mostly .obj from .dpc content)
- Poser material files (either .pz2 or .mc6)

As I now finally realized the cause of all this is that those files are not part of the “Product”.
Only data related to files that are part of a product are included in the .dsa and .dsx files that are exported from the “Product Library” “Content DB Editor”

So even when one would take the time to assign Categories to the geometry or poser material files that are not part of the product those efforts could not be shared.
Adding the poser and geometry files to the “Product” would not be a reasonalbe solution because the main goal of having “Products” seems to be to have a quick way of selecting only those files that are needed for DS.

The way “Metadata” sharing works it seems just not possible to share any information about files that are not part of a “Product”.
The information that is not exported may be saved automatically as “User Data”.
But as far as I understand there is no way to share that “User Data” part.

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Is there any way that the “metadata” like “Categories” “File types” “Compatibilites” can be saved inside every file we install and not as separate information that is read from the .dsa and .dsx files and after installation the database?

If I open any file on my PC there is additonal information saved in the “Properties”.

Could the CMS load the metadata by reading each new files information the first time it is loaded into DS?

For example in Content DB Maintenance there is an option to scan for new files.
Instead of just marking the files as new couldnt at the same time be read metadata information of individual files?

Would it be possible to give the user the option that the metadata information is directly saved into any content file whenever the uses makes any changes in the Content DB Editor or the Categories?

The CMS databases could still serve as a the main saving place for “User Data”. But all those who intentionally want to make any modifications to the metadata would have an option to do so on an individual files base.
Like that the only backup one would need to make is a backup of the whole runtime.
There would be no more metadata loss if the CMS crashes or the databases somehow get corrupted.
The metadata information would still be there in each individual content file.

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I can understand that for sharing metadata it is useful to have a way to extract the metadata from the file and share only the metadata independently.

But for the purpose of installing and editing metadata Metadata information could be included in all files of an installer and not just those that are part of a “Product”.

It sounds like your content folders aren’t defined correctly.  Can you go to Edit > Preferences > Content Library > Content Directory Manager, expand the 3 sections (DAZ Studio Format, Poser Format, Other Formats) and post a screenshot?

fixmypcmike - 14 December 2012 11:24 PM

It sounds like your content folders aren’t defined correctly.  Can you go to Edit > Preferences > Content Library > Content Directory Manager, expand the 3 sections (DAZ Studio Format, Poser Format, Other Formats) and post a screenshot?

Mike thank you a lot for helping out.

Which part of my statements makes you think that some settings are off?

Should it be possible to share metadata of files that are not part of the “Product”?

I really thought I now finally made a breakthrough and understand why all metadata of the poser material files and .obj that are not part of the “Product” cannot be shared.

When I as a user after installing the official DAZ files manually add categories to files that were not part of the product that information is saved as user data. I just have no way of sharing that work with others.

Example:

After each purchase in the DAZ store I check all products how the metadata is set up.
- I use “Scan known Directories for files”
- I then check /Categories/Unassigned
- There I find all items that were installed but are not part of the “Product” in “Smart Content”
- All .obj files I add to /Utilites/General Content
- All poser material files that have no DS Material script included I add to /Utilities/Poser Materials
- All labels, product information I add to /Utilities/Documents/Labels

(Disclaimer: Those categories are not part of the official metadata categories. Those are my “User” categories. Because of that you can see a “U” icon next to them in the Categories Window.)

To put it different:

Even when I take the time to completly clean up my runtime after installing content I have no way of sharing that work.

The way I understand it all the .obj files, poser material files and document label information that are not part of a “Smart Content” “Product” will only be saved as “User Data”.

If I were to go to the “Product Library” “Content DB Editor” and export the .dsa and .dsx files all those data would not be included.
Exporting the .dsa and .dsx files only includes metadata of those files that are part of the “Smart Content” “Product”.

Edit / Update:
The screenshot of the Content Directory Manager was altered with photoshop to hide the username.

.obj files should not appear at all in the interface (unless you have folders for .obj which haven’t been put in Poser or DS format).  So if you’re seeing .obj files in the Unassigned category, it means you have something defined as “Other Formats”.

ETA:  Sorry, missed the screenshot first time.  The entry under “Other Formats” should be removed, that will likely solve your problem.

fixmypcmike - 16 December 2012 09:04 PM

.obj files should not appear at all in the interface (unless you have folders for .obj which haven’t been put in Poser or DS format).  So if you’re seeing .obj files in the Unassigned category, it means you have something defined as “Other Formats”.

ETA:  Sorry, missed the screenshot first time.  The entry under “Other Formats” should be removed, that will likely solve your problem.

Mike thanks a lot.
I quickly tried to check what happens if I remove the entry under “Other Formats”. It is as you suggested then the .obj are not showing in the Categories anymore.

But:
The problem is not that they are showing. I am completly fine that the .obj are showing up.
In fact it is very helpful to me that they are showing up because it saves me a lot of time when I export .obj to other applications if I know can quickly browse what is available without the need to convert some poser or ds native formats.

This still leaves the poser material files in /Categories/Unassigned.

Again my main “issue” here is that we currently have no way to share the “User Data” part of the metadata of files that are not included in products.

The library example:

When I talk with people not familiar with Computer Graphics about 3D content and metadata I explain them everything with an example of books and a real library.

If you have 10 books you can easy find each of them quickly.
If you have 100 you want to come up with an order how to put them in your shelves.
If you have 1000 you will probably want to start some index system. In the old days it was done with cards. Nowadays libraries have a pc catalogue system.

Now lets assume that our librarian wants to keep his library up to date. Each evening he categories all new books that were delivered each day.

Now what would happen if he would not categorize some books because he thinks they are not that important and just leave them in the room were new books arrive?

At first no big issue.
If you have 10 books that are not categorized you can still spot the new ones that are important.
If you have 100 books its becomes quite difficult to spot the new important books that were delivered.
If you have 1000 books piled in that room it becomes very hard to even spot the new ones.

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It is the same thing with metadata. Each single file that is not categorized is pilled up in /Categories/Unassigned.

If one would take time each evening to clean up /Categories/Unassigned one would not have any problem spotting those important files that should have been assigned metadata.

But if we start having poser material files and documents and labels files in /Categories/Unassigned it becomes quite quickly a huge mess.

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Again what I propose is to find an other way to attach the metadata to all files that are installed on the system. Not just those that are set up with the “Product”.

My orginal question was:

Would it be possible to come up with a system that saves metadata on a file level basis without the need of the files to be part of a product.

A superficial solution would be to stop providing installers that include both DS and Poser content.

If people do not want a certain type of materials for other software they do not use why keep forcing them to install that content?

DAZ seems to have 3 user groups that want three different things when it comes to dpc content.

But how likely is the chance that DS has the time and resources to pack all content with 3 different installers?

- DS geometry and mats only
- Poser geometry and mats only
- DS and Poser geometry and mats combined

But again that would only solve the superficial cause and not the root problem behind it.

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Metadata as it is now is a good start but the whole systems needs to become more userfriendly.

Step 1 Direct save all metadata changes to /runtime/support from anywhere in DS

Give the user at least the option that all changes he makes to files that are part of a “Smart Content” “Product” are immediatley saved to the .dsx files in “Runtime/Support” and not just to the user data.

It really is quite a loss of time to have to go back to the Product Library after each change to make sure that the .dsx files in /Runtime/Support are up to date with all changes.
With a system like that it makes it almost impossible to make batch changes to categories when files of several products at once are moved. For example from old metadata categories that are not used any more to the new ones. Like from shoes to footwear.

Step 2 Including metadata on a file level basis

Give the user the option that they can also share the “User Data” part of their metadata on a file level basis.
Like some thumbnails are loaded for each file also metadata could be saved and loaded for each file.

Step 3 Include of a filter system for Categories

Another way to solve the issue that only metdata of files included in a product would be to add really all files to the “Smart Content” “Product” but then give the user the option to “hide” some files he does not want to see.
It should be quite easy to add some kind of “Filter” system that would allow to hide some “Categories”.

Example:
Assign all poser materials without a DS material script included to “/Utilites/Poser Materials”
Then give the user the option to toggle on or off if he can see the files added to that category in any places that show “Smart Content”

The hidden files may still show up in the Content Library but not anymore in the all “Smart Content” and the other Tabs.

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Anyway. I guess I did do what I could by trying to explain how I work with metadata and what could be done to make the process easier.

For now I will just keep cleaning up each single day what is left in /Categories/Unassigned.

I’m just going to follow this thread. I would dearly LOVE to categorize all of my content (there’s TONS of it) using metadata, so hopefully I’ll figure out at least the basics by following the conversation :D

HeraldOfFire - 17 December 2012 03:49 AM

I’m just going to follow this thread. I would dearly LOVE to categorize all of my content (there’s TONS of it) using metadata, so hopefully I’ll figure out at least the basics by following the conversation :D

There was an awesome Tutorial and several very useful threads about metadata by Cridgit.
For reasons I do not understand most of it is now “Whoops, all gone.”

The DAZ Studio 4 Metadata Toolkit

http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=180430

Metadata guidelines

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/7542/

For now for me the important metadata related page is:

Default Categories

http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/dson_spec/format_description/metadata/categories/start

This page gives an overview what the current up to date metadata categories should look like.

Sometimes in Summer 2012 someone deceided on that metadata category system.
The idea would now be that everyone uses that basic system for products released in the store.
Of coures each user can add their own categories to customize it for their needs.

As a rule of thumb:

All products that were updated to include DSON installers were also updated to have metadata coresponding to the “new” guidelines.

When will the official metadata tutorial be ready?

Also in the thread “Metadata Guidelines” there was talk that there would be an official metadata tutorial on the online document page of DAZ. So far I have not found it.

I guess the important thing is that all people who are interested in metadata speak up so DAZ knows that it is not just a crazy few who are planning to making use of that feature.