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What toon figures do you use on Genesis?
Posted: 13 December 2012 03:19 PM   [ Ignore ]
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If you use Genesis, what toon morphs do you use?


This is a serious question because I’m thinking of dropping support for The Girl 4.  I don’t see her in a lot of Genesis renders, her proportions make top support very difficult, and she does terrible things to UVs in the breast area.  If I do that, I would probably replace her with another toon that is more popular with my target market (people who are interested in heavily morphing everyday clothing and occasional fantasy outfits). 


These morphs don’t matter to this consideration, as I will continue to support them regardless:

-Aiko 3, 4
-Hiro 3, 4, 5
-Hitomi
-Mavka


I’m more interested in whether you are using the Chibis, Amy, Sadie and Sam, or others like them that I currently do not support.  You will still be able to autoconform anything, of course, but this affects whether I start doing customs for other toons.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 04:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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How about smay’s Nata For Genesis?

It’s the only toon I use for Genesis (so far), and I have seen others using her, including mixing her with other toons such as Hitomi, and A3.

Not sure if it qualifies, or if the shape might be to close to The Girl 4 with regards to “up top”, and UV distortions.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 04:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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No, that’s in no way going to be easier, but I’d still do it if more people are using it than Girl 4. wink

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Posted: 13 December 2012 04:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I’ve been trying to find a good base blend between 3DU’s toons (Jasmin/Jason/Amy) and Aiko/Hiro/Hitomi (or would, if I had managed to afford Hitomi any of the times she’s been on sale.  Timing has yet to work out right on that one) for a project that is continually buzzing around in my head for a while.  But I don’t use any of the toons at full strength.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 05:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I totally feel your pain Sickle, the Girls ‘4s boobage is taxing to accomadate, It needs loads more geometry than the Vickis, Aikos and the like and it warps the living hell out of the UVs too… For this reason I dont really support TG4 from above the waist, its just too much of a headache.
IMO It is not very reasonable to expect custom fits for ALL of the ever increasing supply of genesis shapes, (and anyone who think it is - should maybe try and do it themselves to see how much work it is)
...so yes we have to choose a ‘selection’ based on popularity.

And for the record, I sometimes dial in a tiny bit Aiko but thats it. Im not really a ‘toon’ person.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 05:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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I see a LOT of 3DU’s Jazlyn showing up in deviantART’s 3D females render category.  She shows up as often as one or two a day, and never more than a week between sightings.  Jazlyn is still pretty top heavy, but without the extremely thin waist of The Girl.  The only artist I really see using The Girl regularly on dA is rrward, but he’s using the gen 4 version in Poser, not Genesis.  I also see Amy somewhat regularly in that category, though she’s not top-heavy at all in her default form.  Jasmin shows up from time to time, but she’s not particularly extreme in bodyshape, either.  I have yet to see anyone on dA use Sadie or Sam.  I can’t remember the last time I saw Nata, either.  I suspect most Mavka sightings are the gen 4 version, not Genesis.

I don’t really do straight-up “toon” renders, myself.  But I often mix a bit of Hitomi’s or Jazlyn’s body (only—no head) into my fantasy characters.  Usually no more than about 20%.  I remains to be seen if Satsuki takes off in popularity, but she’s also a spectacular morph set.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 06:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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The toons I use with Genesis currently are:

Sadie and Sam
Toon Amy
Aiko and Hiro
Hitomi
Asobi

With most of those I tend to mix/match morphs a fair bit. Sam and Sadie are largely exceptions to this because they’re so heavily stylised, but there are a few blends I use. I haven’t found anything which compared to ChibiBel or BelBel yet, so I still use some older figures alongside Genesis. Using the Aiko/Hiro morphs I can sort of get a closer version, but ChibiBel is too unique a character to match using presets alone.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 06:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Another thing to consider on the “supporting the top-heavy” issue: if you look at dA, you’ll see that even the “regular” shapes (V4/V5/A4/etc) very frequently have their breasts dialed up to The Girl sizes.  And that’s probably a much bigger market segment than the specialized figures are.  So assuming that creating a mesh that supports The Girl sized breast expansion is ubiquitous across all female shapes, I’d argue it still makes sense to put the work in to support this.  Instead of a grid of quads across the chest, it means a bit more of a concentric circle arrangement, much like Genesis’s own mesh is for the breasts.  I know some are concerned with poly counts, but my counter argument to that is design it like Genesis, with subd in mind.  You can have the subd default to off, and will probably look fine when the figure is not top-heavy.  Those that do use top-heavy figures can always enable the subd.

You still have the UV stretching issue, though I suppose one possibility for that is to include a switchable UV mapping for the conformer.  But admittedly, that is additional work for the content creator to do.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 07:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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cwichura - 13 December 2012 06:55 PM

Another thing to consider on the “supporting the top-heavy” issue: if you look at dA, you’ll see that even the “regular” shapes (V4/V5/A4/etc) very frequently have their breasts dialed up to The Girl sizes.  And that’s probably a much bigger market segment than the specialized figures are.  So assuming that creating a mesh that supports The Girl sized breast expansion is ubiquitous across all female shapes, I’d argue it still makes sense to put the work in to support this.  Instead of a grid of quads across the chest, it means a bit more of a concentric circle arrangement, much like Genesis’s own mesh is for the breasts.  I know some are concerned with poly counts, but my counter argument to that is design it like Genesis, with subd in mind.  You can have the subd default to off, and will probably look fine when the figure is not top-heavy.  Those that do use top-heavy figures can always enable the subd.

You still have the UV stretching issue, though I suppose one possibility for that is to include a switchable UV mapping for the conformer.  But admittedly, that is additional work for the content creator to do.

I’m going to disagree on the feature being worth the extra work, if only because most of Sickleyield’s clothing falls under the “practical, normal folk wear” as opposed to the “I have Boobs, bow before me!” sexy-type clothes.  So most of her customer base aren’t likely to put characters with over-sized breasts in her clothes.  (There will always be exceptions, of course.)  At least, not that I’ve seen at dA and other places.  (I’m not sure that dA should be the primary measure of how the figures are being used either.  I’d at least give equal weight to Renderosity and RDNA galleries, even if Genesis is a less frequent figure there.)

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Posted: 13 December 2012 07:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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If all SY stuff was boring wear I would never buy any. I can’t agree with the “practical, normal folk wear” comment. And that is no slight against SY. I don’t count the large variety of fantasy pieces as practical is all.(practical normal wear is not fantasy at all) But I’m not going to vote here since SY already will continue to support my main toon figures.

I have most of 3DU’s toons and never use them (so I stopped buying them). I haven’t used G4 since I left V4. The Aiko’s and Hitomi get top usage with a bit of Chibi girl and Mavka/Nata.

Edit: guess that counts as a vote then lol.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 07:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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dA is obviously only one representation.  But there’s so much stuff posted there, it does give you at least some insight into what people like to render.  And while it’s been ages since I last bothered looking through Renderosity’s gallery (which is a spectacularly out-of-date web app that is painful to use), what I remember of it, I’d say content posted there wasn’t much different than what you find on dA.  dA just tends to split it up a bit more between what category the stuff is posted to (e.g., the 3D females gallery does tend to have a lot of T&A, but other categories like the fantasy & scifi scenes cover a lot of the other stuff you find at Renderosity).  I’ve never looked at RDNA’s gallery—frankly, I didn’t even know they had one.

I’ll also argue that you see big breasts even with “practical” clothing, and not just the skankwear stuff.  But if you look at my dA gallery, it should be no surprise where my bias lies… smile

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Posted: 13 December 2012 07:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Well to be fair DA is larger than both RNDA and RR…Even if you were to just focus on groups centered around Daz and poser. trying to dismiss (or minimize) dA just becasue of the TNA would be detrimental to anybody in the premade art business.

But a nugget of info since I am the founder/contributor to many dA groups. most people don’t care if the cloths fit right, they don’t know any better LOL. it’s sad but true.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 07:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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cwichura, it looks like your definition of “over-sized breasts” and mine are a bit different.  From your gallery, you like ‘em large, but not freakishly so.  My definition of over-sized is “You’re kidding!  That’s got to hurt even with support!”  complete with sympathy back pain (and I’m only a C cup).  (Think Dolly Parton, poor woman, or larger.)  And when I see those in 3D renders, they’re usually bare, or barely covered.  Or maybe I just have bad luck with when I go through the dA gallery.  smile

The Girl 4, in her full state, is at the very front edge of this definition, for me, and mostly because of her wasp-ish waist.  So I’m not convinced that supporting the Girl 4 shape for Genesis clothing is really required.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 08:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Does JoeQuick’s “Mr Simian” count?  I’d say he’s my favorite toonshape.

cwichura, it looks like your definition of “over-sized breasts” and mine are a bit different.  From your gallery, you like ‘em large, but not freakishly so.  My definition of over-sized is “You’re kidding!  That’s got to hurt even with support!”  complete with sympathy back pain (and I’m only a C cup).  (Think Dolly Parton, poor woman, or larger.)  And when I see those in 3D renders, they’re usually bare, or barely covered.  Or maybe I just have bad luck with when I go through the dA gallery.  smile

The Girl 4, in her full state, is at the very front edge of this definition, for me, and mostly because of her wasp-ish waist.  So I’m not convinced that supporting the Girl 4 shape for Genesis clothing is really required.

From the sound of it, she really does need support!  Full-coverage genuine-whalebone corset, perhaps?

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Posted: 13 December 2012 08:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Definitely what one owns and what one uses are distinct categories, at least for me.  Aiko 3 is my favourite, but I prefer the original to the Genesis morph, Hitomi/Asobi is my go-to Genesis toon gal (for now; I’m so fickle)  and I have a weakness for Chibi, but I’ve taken V3 clothing, auto-fitted and had them look stunning on Chibi so I don’t think she needs separate morphs myself.  Now for the Girl, she can look so gorgeous in some things (corsets come to mind) but it’s a certain look that’s not appropriate for all situations,  I’m a huge Sickle Yield fan and wouldn’t stop buying if there were no Girl morphs.  Personally I don’t buy based on the supported morphs; it fits Genesis and either looks good or doesn’t.  If not, I try something else.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 08:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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DaWaterRat - 13 December 2012 07:59 PM

it looks like your definition of “over-sized breasts” and mine are a bit different.  From your gallery, you like ‘em large, but not freakishly so.

I’d say that’s accurate of my tastes.  I like large, but still something that you can find in the real world (albeit most likely as the result of implants).  (FWIW, my general starting point when creating a new character is breast size .85, breast implant .5.)  The super-ginormous breasts you see a lot of on dA I don’t generally find all that appealing.  I don’t own The Girl, so I’ve never actually loaded her up to compare, but from looking at renders others have posted of her over the years, I always equated her bust to around the same size as what I typically render; they just seem larger due to the proportional difference to her waist, as you point out as well.

And to be clear, my lobbying for proper breast support in clothing items is for the sizes I typically render (which again, I always felt The Girl was similar to), not the super-ginormous stuff.  I don’t think the folks creating the super-ginormous breast renders even want clothing to cover them, even if the clothing existed.  (And let’s face it, those renders are always topless because there isn’t any clothing that would fit them unless they’ve made it themselves.)

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