# Digital Art Zone

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Tips & Tricks For Space Scenes
 Posted: 19 December 2012 01:55 AM [ Ignore ]   [ # 121 ]
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Just starting to read this thread but thanks for starting and all the contributors!

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 10:18 AM [ Ignore ]   [ # 122 ]
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holly wetcircuit - 19 December 2012 12:49 AM

I think I figured out an excuse to have the ring… It spins FASTER than its orbit, to provide an artificial gravity. It has to be a ring because it is held together like a suspension bridge, held in shape like a cowboy lariat.

Would that work?

I think it would need very low rpms, but not sure how that would work with something that completely encircles a planet as opposed to just being in orbit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_gravity

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 11:02 AM [ Ignore ]   [ # 123 ]
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Rareth - 19 December 2012 10:18 AM
holly wetcircuit - 19 December 2012 12:49 AM

I think I figured out an excuse to have the ring… It spins FASTER than its orbit, to provide an artificial gravity. It has to be a ring because it is held together like a suspension bridge, held in shape like a cowboy lariat.

Would that work?

I think it would need very low rpms, but not sure how that would work with something that completely encircles a planet as opposed to just being in orbit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_gravity

Yeah, I’ll try to find a way to work out the math, but for now I’ll assume that it would only need to turn “slightly” faster than normal orbit speed, maybe via simple ion thrusters all along the outside of the ring? Maybe it could just be painted black on one side and silver on the other like a gigantic Crooke’s Radiometer…LOL! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_radiometer .

I’m also re-thinking the beads on a necklace idea, each would be a self sustaining “pod” if disconnected from the others…. Each pod would have core services (sewage, power, air filters) as well as some limited ability to maneuver (a reserve of chemical thrusters?) to help them stay in a controlled orbit for a while. If they DID become disconnected, their momentum would move them into a higher orbit, which would also act to separate them so they don’t crash into each other…. Maybe there could be an emergency plan that disconnects the beads but keeps them tethered together. The ring expands and slows, but doesn’t entirely disconnect (“nanotube” cables) so extreme damage or disaster can’t spread to the other beads…. Hmmm.

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 12:53 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 124 ]
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holly wetcircuit - 19 December 2012 11:02 AM
Rareth - 19 December 2012 10:18 AM
holly wetcircuit - 19 December 2012 12:49 AM

I think I figured out an excuse to have the ring… It spins FASTER than its orbit, to provide an artificial gravity. It has to be a ring because it is held together like a suspension bridge, held in shape like a cowboy lariat.

Would that work?

I think it would need very low rpms, but not sure how that would work with something that completely encircles a planet as opposed to just being in orbit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_gravity

Yeah, I’ll try to find a way to work out the math, but for now I’ll assume that it would only need to turn “slightly” faster than normal orbit speed, maybe via simple ion thrusters all along the outside of the ring? Maybe it could just be painted black on one side and silver on the other like a gigantic Crooke’s Radiometer…LOL! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_radiometer .

I’m also re-thinking the beads on a necklace idea, each would be a self sustaining “pod” if disconnected from the others…. Each pod would have core services (sewage, power, air filters) as well as some limited ability to maneuver (a reserve of chemical thrusters?) to help them stay in a controlled orbit for a while. If they DID become disconnected, their momentum would move them into a higher orbit, which would also act to separate them so they don’t crash into each other…. Maybe there could be an emergency plan that disconnects the beads but keeps them tethered together. The ring expands and slows, but doesn’t entirely disconnect (“nanotube” cables) so extreme damage or disaster can’t spread to the other beads…. Hmmm.

might I make a suggestion.. you could do something like this,  can still rotate it to have gravity and for 1-2 rpm spin it doesn’t have to be huge, and you still have the carbon nano tube cable..

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 01:41 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 125 ]
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Of course, you want a sense of believability, but really for a science fiction or fantasy image it doesn’t need to be real, just look real- if that makes sense.

The Death Star is a good example of a large scale ship. One, it’s huge, and two, it must be capable of faster than light speed, (which is also technically impossible, though with quantum physics, theoretically possible- Provided you have a nice stable wormhole with a whole bunch of other caveats thrown in for good measure). Yet people buy it in the movie, because Lucas realized the vision of it well enough to get the audience to buy it.

For me, I don’t really care if the tech is technically accurate as long as it looks plausible. A sense of scale has been mentioned before, and there are other factors as well. The “look” of the technology would be a good example. If you were to visualize future tech in the gilded age, you would probably see lots of brass, steam, big dials and gauges, etc. Future tech now could go two ways: military/industrial/Star Wars style- dirty and well used, or the smooth and glitzy Apple/consumer electronics/Star Trek tech: streamlined, bright, clean, glossy.

Just my personal opinion.

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 02:07 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 126 ]
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**I was replying while Kevin EvilProducer already responded ^ ... I used the same example of the DeathStar as an example of an unbelievable ginormous structure used to get the point across, lol!

Rareth - 19 December 2012 12:53 PM

might I make a suggestion.. you could do something like this,  can still rotate it to have gravity and for 1-2 rpm spin it doesn’t have to be huge, and you still have the carbon nano tube cable..

That is cool…but that is a certain retro vision of the future circa 1960s… I would rather work out something new that has not really been done much before… There is a backstory to the project, a planet is prone to enormous hurricanes, but becomes an exploitive colonial power. They live very elegantly for themselves with the height of technology, but it’s far from a “free” society. Only the extremely wealthy live on the planet in the few stable areas, the majority of the population is moved off world (the better to exploit the colonies, and to police the citizens).... Meanwhile they gaze lovingly back at their own planet, but it is sort of a distant admiration, like an unreachable gem (tracking the enormous storms is sort of the trainspotting of the people)... Actually getting down to the planet is politically difficult…. There’s a whole aesthetic based loosely on France in the mid-1700s: very class structured but with high aesthetics, and the ideas of Descartes and his “vortexes”, which plays into the mechanics of a centripetal ring (and also the sorting of class privilege)... As a colonial power the “sky harbor” is especially important… It needs to be on a HUGE scale to imply the power and ambition of these people, also the enormous reach of their trading power… They did not build the ring out of material from their own planet, they tore apart other people’s planets to do it, so they could preserve an idealized “gentleman farmer” kind of intelligent/agricultural purity down on their planet, despite the fact that it is far from ideal for everyone….

I’m of the sci-fi idea that it’s not just about “gadgets in space” but the evolution of societies and how their beliefs shape their goals as a people…. Like the Egyptians building the pyramids, part of it was to create their ideal on Earth, but another part was to show they can reshape reality…. Or like the DeathStar in Star Wars, once you show the world that you can build an artificial planet that moves around and blows up your homeworld, no one is really going to stand up to fight you…. So for me as a writer I’d rather do something audacious that bends the rules and leaves an impression…. I also want it to look like very “modern aesthetic” engineering, like a Calatrava bridge, functional but surprisingly sexy and elegant…. That’s the high-minded goal anyway…

My next goal is to see how many people I can end up putting on this ring…. That will help me decide how big each “bead” section needs to be…

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 02:15 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 127 ]
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And, also agreeing with Evilproducer that where I find something that just can’t really be plausible (like the need for unobtainium) I will be better able to steer clear of making it a central part of the story… lol

It needs to make more visual sense than mechanical sense. People are suppose to be impressed by it… Characters in the story, I mean.

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 02:23 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 128 ]
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holly wetcircuit - 19 December 2012 02:15 PM

And, also agreeing with Evilproducer that where I find something that just can’t really be plausible (like the need for unobtainium) I will be better able to steer clear of making it a central part of the story… lol

It needs to make more visual sense than mechanical sense. People are suppose to be impressed by it… Characters in the story, I mean.

Yeah, floating mountains are cool and realized in such a way that they kind of look plausible, then you name the McGuffin that floats the whole works Unobtainium?!? Cameron, what were you thinking?!?

I could go on about the Hobbit movie after they leave Rivendell, but I don’t want to spoil it for those that haven’t watched the film yet. Bad Peter Jackson, bad! Go sit in the corner!

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 02:24 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 129 ]
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holly wetcircuit - 19 December 2012 02:15 PM

And, also agreeing with Evilproducer that where I find something that just can’t really be plausible (like the need for unobtainium) I will be better able to steer clear of making it a central part of the story… lol

It needs to make more visual sense than mechanical sense. People are suppose to be impressed by it… Characters in the story, I mean.

so the planet is where the elite upper class live. then there are orbital habitats (the ring, beads, etc) for lesser classes..

the poor and downtrodden could then live in old abandoned astroid/lunar mines….

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 04:04 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 130 ]
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Rareth - 19 December 2012 02:24 PM

so the planet is where the elite upper class live. then there are orbital habitats (the ring, beads, etc) for lesser classes..

the poor and downtrodden could then live in old abandoned astroid/lunar mines….

Yes, exactly. The old-money elite are truly untouchable on the planet (along with very large swaths of agricultural plantations, clean water, fresh air).

The Merchant class live on the ring, ever admiring their symbolic planet from 350km, a dense “city” of cosmopolitan people in the ring who have easy access to the rest of the planets and a churning trade economy…. (they get fresh food from the planet, are educated, fashionable, trendy, they live for-the-now - think Paris/New York/Tokyo), so naturally feel their society is superior, they obsess on “exotic” cultures (as it is sanitized for them while they dominate it).... Also living relatively free from terrorism or political dissent because the ring is very secure…. They are free to pursue “intellectual” and academic entertainments (music, philosophy, mathematics)... all moshed together because they never really leave their comfort zone….

Meanwhile there is an unseen underclass that is basically exploited in far less glamorous conditions on barely liveable planets and asteroid mines where most raw materials come from…. My story arc follows a character from this lowest up through the classes, so over time I transition from a “hard” scifi environment, to a sort of technological peak, and beyond to an artificially maintained Ideal….

Blah blah blah…

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 04:06 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 131 ]
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Okay, here’s a candidate for my final image. Still not happy with the clouds as they’ve been coming out of Carrara. Probably due to my lighting, but even my low-res test renders take forever. With Christmas and guests coming, I may have to shelve this one for awhile.

I think this version is the closest yet to my original vision. I had to render in layers and composite in Photoshop. I also heavily postworked the image, which I don’t have a problem with, but I do like to get it as close as possible out of Carrara.

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 04:23 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 132 ]
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Ah, that’s much nicer Evil. The clouds look very dynamic and powerful.

I’d still give some thought to not missing an opportunity to blow us away with some interest in the clouds and rocks. Right now the rocks in the ring just look like dark splotches with no texture or lighting or interest. And the clouds, being real thick, lose the opportunity to have some spectacular highlights and interest. Even if it’s just a little.

But I think the rocks really detract from the image, since they just look disconnected and out of place, with no real interaction in the scene.

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 04:46 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 133 ]
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I think the rock issue is partly to do with my postwork overdoing the contrast, and me overdoing the contrast trying to get the highlights on the clouds. It’s been very tricky trying to get the opacity, shadows and silver lining settings to cooperate as I thought they would.

Here are the elements composited together without any adjustments or added effects.

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 08:02 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 134 ]
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evilproducer - 19 December 2012 04:46 PM

I think the rock issue is partly to do with my postwork overdoing the contrast, and me overdoing the contrast trying to get the highlights on the clouds. It’s been very tricky trying to get the opacity, shadows and silver lining settings to cooperate as I thought they would.

Here are the elements composited together without any adjustments or added effects.

The image is looking spetacular, one small item, maybe shift the camera abit so the ring is identifiable as a ring, I know its a ring from the description but it doesn’t look like one, maybe a small change in perspective would help it,  I dunno.

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 Posted: 19 December 2012 08:17 PM [ Ignore ]   [ # 135 ]
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I cheated the ring in this one. I tried to do the ring with clouds and a surface replicator. Looked pretty crappy. Instead, I kept the ring of asteroids and placed the planet in the middle of a big cloud, adjusting for height and diameter.

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