Digital Art Zone

 
   
2 of 4
2
Altering textures - copyright question
Posted: 11 December 2012 10:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
Power Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1711
Joined  2008-05-31
Zev0 - 11 December 2012 09:41 AM
Taozen - 11 December 2012 09:35 AM
adamr001 - 11 December 2012 08:53 AM
Taozen - 11 December 2012 08:44 AM

Is it allowed to redistribute (for free) a texture included with a DAZ product, which you have altered slightly? It can only be used by people who have purchased the same product anyway, so I can’t see anyone would lose anything by doing this.

No.  Redistribution is never allowed.

OK. Rather silly if you ask me, as I can create an almost identical texture from scratch and redistribute it freely.

 

It’s not silly. Its the same principal as me slightly modifying somebody’s clothing item and distributing it. Even though I can make it myself. Bottom line, it does not belong to you so you have no right distributing it.

In this particular case I think it is. The whole idea of copyright is to prevent someone doing domething that causes a loss in the original creator’s income. As long as you don’t do that, I don’t see a problem. In some cases it might even benefit the original author making extensions that improves his product so he sells more copies.

 Signature 
Tools for the DAZ store
Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 10:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  16086
Joined  2003-10-09
larsmidnatt - 11 December 2012 10:17 AM
chohole - 11 December 2012 10:12 AM

There are many of us who make textures for Daz Products and distribute, but we do make them completely from scratch, we never alter other peoples textures.

Well to be clear here, you can make things from scratch or use content you have permission to distribute and reuse. For example merchant resource textures are fair game as well as other content people share and state can be redistributed.

 


Yes agreed I do use Merchant resources as well as making my own “fabrics”. As long as they are Merch resources that allow them to be used for freebies.

What I never do is use the Vendors original texture, or any part of it. 

I would never even think of altering someone else’s texture either. After all, quite apart from the fact that it is his/her interllectual property,  I think that if the vendor had wanted the texture done that way, then he or she would have probably done it that way themselves.

 Signature 

Chohole’s Space        Neil’Vs Freebies and stuff        Autumn Bryce Rendering Challenge        September Freebie Challenge
My DAZ 3D Gallery    11915

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 10:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
Power Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1711
Joined  2008-05-31
Male-M3dia - 11 December 2012 10:19 AM

Ok, let me hit a bit closer to home. How about I reverse-engineer the code for the programs you plan on selling, make improvements to that, then redistribute it? I’m sure you’ll allow that, if I apply the same level of logic. You’re OK with that, right?

I’d actually appreciate if you’d do that, as long as what you’re making only can be used by people who already have bought my program.
Which is the case with textures - they only work for people who already own the original product. The original creater don’t lose anything - not even if I use his own textures as source material for new textures. He might even sell more products because of it.


 Signature 
Tools for the DAZ store
Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 10:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1613
Joined  2008-11-10
Taozen - 11 December 2012 10:30 AM
Zev0 - 11 December 2012 09:41 AM
Taozen - 11 December 2012 09:35 AM
adamr001 - 11 December 2012 08:53 AM
Taozen - 11 December 2012 08:44 AM

Is it allowed to redistribute (for free) a texture included with a DAZ product, which you have altered slightly? It can only be used by people who have purchased the same product anyway, so I can’t see anyone would lose anything by doing this.

No.  Redistribution is never allowed.

OK. Rather silly if you ask me, as I can create an almost identical texture from scratch and redistribute it freely.

 

It’s not silly. Its the same principal as me slightly modifying somebody’s clothing item and distributing it. Even though I can make it myself. Bottom line, it does not belong to you so you have no right distributing it.

In this particular case I think it is. The whole idea of copyright is to prevent someone doing domething that causes a loss in the original creator’s income. As long as you don’t do that, I don’t see a problem. In some cases it might even benefit the original author making extensions that improves his product so he sells more copies.

But there could be possibly a loss, however tangible, on the reference material used. Perhaps there’s an agreement on how that texture is used. Since you don’t know because you aren’t a party to what that agreement is, modifying that material and redistributing it could create that loss in the reference owner’s eyes. And that’s the point; you aren’t the owner, so you don’t actually know the value of that particular reference.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 10:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  16086
Joined  2003-10-09

And as we were saying in the posts about Merchant Resources, there are a good many merchant resources that will not allow them to be used for creating freebies, This is another point to remember, quite apart from the points about the original texture being the vendors intellectual property, and therefore not for redistribution unless specifically permitted by the vendor, which no products sold by DAZ 3D, whether DOs or PA brokered products, will allow.

You don’t know which merchant resource the vendor used, or even if he did use one, so you don’t know the terms of that merchant resource.

 Signature 

Chohole’s Space        Neil’Vs Freebies and stuff        Autumn Bryce Rendering Challenge        September Freebie Challenge
My DAZ 3D Gallery    11915

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
Power Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1711
Joined  2008-05-31
chohole - 11 December 2012 10:42 AM

I would never even think of altering someone else’s texture either. After all, quite apart from the fact that it is his/her interllectual property,  I think that if the vendor had wanted the texture done that way, then he or she would have probably done it that way themselves.

Well that’s a different aspect of it, of course, and I fully respect that.

But still, if I create an addon texture that alters the original texture if applied, which I suppose is legal, isn’t that tecnically the same.as altering the original creators texture? And if I don’t want my product used in any context other than privately with other textures than the ones I include myself, can I then demand that in the copyright terms? Can I also demand that no one must create addon textures for my product?

 

 Signature 
Tools for the DAZ store
Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  16086
Joined  2003-10-09
Taozen - 11 December 2012 11:03 AM
chohole - 11 December 2012 10:42 AM

I would never even think of altering someone else’s texture either. After all, quite apart from the fact that it is his/her interllectual property,  I think that if the vendor had wanted the texture done that way, then he or she would have probably done it that way themselves.

Well that’s a different aspect of it, of course, and I fully respect that.

But still, if I create an addon texture that alters the original texture if applied, which I suppose is legal, isn’t that tecnically the same.as altering the original creators texture? And if I don’t want my product used in any context other than privately with other textures than the ones I include myself, can I then demand that in the copyright terms? Can I also demand that no one must create addon textures for my product?


Creating a different texture for a product is a completely different thing from editing an existing texture.  If you create your own texture, all your own work, then that is not the same thing as altering the texture that is shipped with the product. You can distribute your own textures, you cannot redistribute other peoples textures.

I have 5gb of additional textures on my site, but none that are copies or edited copies of the vendors textures.

What you do for your own use is different, but you specifically asked about redistributing an existing texture in an edited form.

 Signature 

Chohole’s Space        Neil’Vs Freebies and stuff        Autumn Bryce Rendering Challenge        September Freebie Challenge
My DAZ 3D Gallery    11915

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 11:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
Power Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1711
Joined  2008-05-31
Male-M3dia - 11 December 2012 10:43 AM

But there could be possibly a loss, however tangible, on the reference material used. Perhaps there’s an agreement on how that texture is used. Since you don’t know because you aren’t a party to what that agreement is, modifying that material and redistributing it could create that loss in the reference owner’s eyes. And that’s the point; you aren’t the owner, so you don’t actually know the value of that particular reference.

OK, that’s a valid point of course.

 

 Signature 
Tools for the DAZ store
Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 11:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  385
Joined  2003-10-09

Taozen:

I see where you are coming from, and I agree with you.

It is sad that one can’t do what the author should have done in the first place.  He/She should have included a non-ripped version of the jeans texture, and you just want to give people (who own it) that option by doing the work for them (because, not everyone is inclined, or even have the simple skills to accomplish the mind-numbingly simple procedure).

Unfortunately, as everyone have profusely stated, your only recourse are the work-arounds presented, or you could write a small tutorial teaching those to apply the texture to the holes.

What I find hilarious is I can imagine that I have the exact ‘base’ jeans texture in my texture catalog just like the nearly $30.00 product I downloaded yesterday that used three of the same leather texture bases (non-altered even) that I have in my catalog, and I know exactly where they got them from (free for both commercial and non-commercial 3D ventures).

Now, if the base jeans textures are heavily modified (cloud noise, dodge, burn, custom painting, etc.) like custom work that is done by chohole, then even if you have the base texture (with freebie distribution rights) to recreate the needed patch for the holes, you will have to create it as close to the author’s as possible.

Definitely the alpha layer patch would be the way to go, unless you feel like teaching those who can’t do for themselves which would save you from any hassles of trying to be a nice guy, and helping anyone out in the first place.

Just my buck-fifty…

 Signature 

Take care all..        “It’s easy to clean up when you got money.”        *Old Post Count:  Don’t know, don’t care…  *New Site Status:  Doesn’t matter one iota.
Ken

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 11:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
Active Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  681
Joined  2004-11-12

Question; couldn’t you just RTEncode it?

That way, it can only be used by people who own the original product, and they essentially have to prove they own it in order to even get access to it. That way, no content is being redistributed in such a way that any Tom, Dick, and Harry could use it.

I’m interested in this topic as i’m currently working on a set of matching Adzan HiroGens textures for characters who previously have no genital textures (such as 3DU’s Jason), and in order to make sure the skin match i’ve had to use samples from the torso texture.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 11:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  385
Joined  2003-10-09

More posts came in while I was writing, and after reading what transpired further I think I will change my mind…

I think your best bet would be to just create a non-ripped jeans version completely from scratch that is all your own.  Hell, you could even do a ripped counterpart version (with your references, or course), completing a texture set, and people might even like your version better than the original authors.

 Signature 

Take care all..        “It’s easy to clean up when you got money.”        *Old Post Count:  Don’t know, don’t care…  *New Site Status:  Doesn’t matter one iota.
Ken

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 11:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1615
Joined  2012-01-04

The fireworks are gonna fly now!

 Signature 

Old Post Count: Maybe 3 or 4.
O/S: Windows 7x64
D/S: 4.6.0.18

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 11:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
Active Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  636
Joined  2004-11-04

The best way around this is to contact the vendor and ask. I’ve been asked in the past about some of my textures and on a few occasions, I have allowed the altered texture to go out.

 Signature 

DZ FIRE’S
MASTER MODELS

Click HERE to get started.
Facebook

Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
Power Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1711
Joined  2008-05-31
chohole - 11 December 2012 11:11 AM
Taozen - 11 December 2012 11:03 AM
chohole - 11 December 2012 10:42 AM

I would never even think of altering someone else’s texture either. After all, quite apart from the fact that it is his/her interllectual property,  I think that if the vendor had wanted the texture done that way, then he or she would have probably done it that way themselves.

Well that’s a different aspect of it, of course, and I fully respect that.

But still, if I create an addon texture that alters the original texture if applied, which I suppose is legal, isn’t that tecnically the same.as altering the original creators texture? And if I don’t want my product used in any context other than privately with other textures than the ones I include myself, can I then demand that in the copyright terms? Can I also demand that no one must create addon textures for my product?


Creating a different texture for a product is a completely different thing from editing an existing texture.  If you create your own texture, all your own work, then that is not the same thing as altering the texture that is shipped with the product. You can distribute your own textures, you cannot redistribute other peoples textures.

What about altering a texture for a product and using it in my own renders then? Are there any rules here for private / public / commecial use of such renders?

 

 Signature 
Tools for the DAZ store
Profile
 
 
Posted: 11 December 2012 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
Power Member
Avatar
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  1615
Joined  2012-01-04
DzFire™ - 11 December 2012 11:53 AM

The best way around this is to contact the vendor and ask. I’ve been asked in the past about some of my textures and on a few occasions, I have allowed the altered texture to go out.

That is one of the most reasonable answers I have ever heard on this type of topic.

 Signature 

Old Post Count: Maybe 3 or 4.
O/S: Windows 7x64
D/S: 4.6.0.18

Profile
 
 
   
2 of 4
2