Thank you for the comprehensive explanation Mattymanx, no doubt you’re right on these points. I know doing her face INJ for V4 would add time to product building etc.
But that said, and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one thinking that way, I think that was not fair doing this character a genesis only character. (Especially since it’s looking like one of their best character so far imho). Genesis not yet the standard Poser/daz figure, this will probably happen someday, but this didn’t happen yet.
The last 2 characters Sarsa made - before Satsuki - both had V4 support, and kuddos to Sarsa for that (Sosie and Addison are 2 of the best V4 chars I’ve ever seen). Too bad they didn’t do again when working on Satsuki.
Sarsa isn’t Thorne. They work together. They also do a lot of work with Mada. But they all work separately too. And they all do still support Gen4 to at least some degree.
What you say as to the amount of demand that exists for which figure would have been absolutely true a year ago. At this time last year it was mostly just the early adopters who were using Genesis, and there wasn’t as much available (in pretty much any category you want to mention) *for* Genesis. Genesis only became available sometime around August 2011. DSON only became available at the end of October this year. That’s something like 14 months that Poser users were shut out completely.
But. In that 14 months a tremendous amount of development went on under the hood. We got a whole new version of the base program in that 14 months. As well as an explosion of morph packs and character design tools which could make Gen4 weep with envy—and that’s only the beginning it isn’t going to taper off. It’s still snowballing. Anyone who has been watching can see that this is probably going to be the direction that the technology is going to take. And it isn’t for a lack of other candidates, either. There are other new weight-mapping systems out there. But they are tagged onto something that already existed. It seems to be an improvement, but it doesn’t seem to be such an advantage when it comes time for people to actually adopt it, rather than just test it out.
A lot of content creators are still playing “wait and see,” although I gather that a lot of then *do* see, but they aren’t eager to have to learn a whole new system of rigging. Which seems to be required to some degree in *either* case, and so far Genesis and its new tools, and its open-ended development track seem to be offering a few more possibilities than weight-mapping an older figure in order to fix some problems that people have been grousing about, but making do with in spite of it, for anything up to six years.
Of course, we’ve got that 14 month delay, muddying the waters. I very much doubt that Poser users are having any worse problems with the DSON import than Studio users had with Genesis in DS4.0. But we (and the developers who adopted early) have got over that hump and the Poser users and the developers who’ve been playing a waiting game haven’t, and it’s probably not going to be any prettier for them than it was for us. But it will probably be worth it.
Hell, I still see the occasional thing brought out for Aiko3. And we’ve been having Vintage ‘Toon appreciation month for figures sitting in the DeepFreeze over on RDNA. But the fact is, that content for Genesis is more likely to be purchased (especially here) just because Genesis users don’t have six years worth of content sitting in their runtimes. We’re hungry.
But that said, and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one thinking that way, I think that was not fair doing this character a genesis only character. (Especially since it’s looking like one of their best character so far imho). Genesis not yet the standard Poser/daz figure, this will probably happen someday, but this didn’t happen yet.
You are not wrong to feel that way and you’re not alone either. I had simular feelings when the Gen3 line up was discontinued.
A thought on the Genesis only part. DAZ3D did buy the character from Thorne & Sarsa so they might have done it for Genesis at the request of DAZ3D.
Btw, did you need V4 characters?
I sincerely hope nothing I said has made either of you feel that way. What I was expressing was simply how I feel and it would be a boring old world if we are all the same. ; )
I have owned and used all of the DAZ figures up until now I can honestly say I didn’t have an attachment to any particular one. I used them all…so for me Genesis is a major breakthrough as I only have to buy the one set of clothing not buy it by 4 because I want to be able to use it with a variety of characters.
Thank you for the comprehensive explanation Mattymanx, no doubt you’re right on these points. I know doing her face INJ for V4 would add time to product building etc.
But that said, and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one thinking that way, I think that was not fair doing this character a genesis only character. (Especially since it’s looking like one of their best character so far imho). Genesis not yet the standard Poser/daz figure, this will probably happen someday, but this didn’t happen yet.
The last 2 characters Sarsa made - before Satsuki - both had V4 support, and kuddos to Sarsa for that (Sosie and Addison are 2 of the best V4 chars I’ve ever seen). Too bad they didn’t do again when working on Satsuki.
Sarsa isn’t Thorne. They work together. They also do a lot of work with Mada. But they all work separately too. And they all do still support Gen4 to at least some degree.
What you say as to the amount of demand that exists for which figure would have been absolutely true a year ago. At this time last year it was mostly just the early adopters who were using Genesis, and there wasn’t as much available (in pretty much any category you want to mention) *for* Genesis. Genesis only became available sometime around August 2011. DSON only became available at the end of October this year. That’s something like 14 months that Poser users were shut out completely.
But. In that 14 months a tremendous amount of development went on under the hood. We got a whole new version of the base program in that 14 months. As well as an explosion of morph packs and character design tools which could make Gen4 weep with envy—and that’s only the beginning it isn’t going to taper off. It’s still snowballing. Anyone who has been watching can see that this is probably going to be the direction that the technology is going to take. And it isn’t for a lack of other candidates, either. There are other new weight-mapping systems out there. But they are tagged onto something that already existed. It seems to be an improvement, but it doesn’t seem to be such an advantage when it comes time for people to actually adopt it, rather than just test it out.
A lot of content creators are still playing “wait and see,” although I gather that a lot of then *do* see, but they aren’t eager to have to learn a whole new system of rigging. Which seems to be required to some degree in *either* case, and so far Genesis and its new tools, and its open-ended development track seem to be offering a few more possibilities than weight-mapping an older figure in order to fix some problems that people have been grousing about, but making do with in spite of it, for anything up to six years.
Of course, we’ve got that 14 month delay, muddying the waters. I very much doubt that Poser users are having any worse problems with the DSON import than Studio users had with Genesis in DS4.0. But we (and the developers who adopted early) have got over that hump and the Poser users and the developers who’ve been playing a waiting game haven’t, and it’s probably not going to be any prettier for them than it was for us. But it will probably be worth it.
Hell, I still see the occasional thing brought out for Aiko3. And we’ve been having Vintage ‘Toon appreciation month for figures sitting in the DeepFreeze over on RDNA. But the fact is, that content for Genesis is more likely to be purchased (especially here) just because Genesis users don’t have six years worth of content sitting in their runtimes. We’re hungry.
Really well said Jodel! I wish I had been able to say it as clearly as you have…
I sincerely hope nothing I said has made either of you feel that way. What I was expressing was simply how I feel and it would be a boring old world if we are all the same. ; )
Hugs
Pen
No worries Pen. There was nothing you said that was offensive to me.
Thank you for the comprehensive explanation Mattymanx, no doubt you’re right on these points. I know doing her face INJ for V4 would add time to product building etc.
But that said, and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one thinking that way, I think that was not fair doing this character a genesis only character. (Especially since it’s looking like one of their best character so far imho). Genesis not yet the standard Poser/daz figure, this will probably happen someday, but this didn’t happen yet.
The last 2 characters Sarsa made - before Satsuki - both had V4 support, and kuddos to Sarsa for that (Sosie and Addison are 2 of the best V4 chars I’ve ever seen). Too bad they didn’t do again when working on Satsuki.
Just to be clear, DS 4.5 is a DAZ application and genesis is their flagship product, so in that context genesis IS the standard figure here. DAZ is simply supporting their software with Genesis content, fair or not. Also you have products made by vendors here for themselves and products made by vendors here for specific DAZ launches to support DAZ only figures, which seems to be the case with this character.
It helps if you don’t think of the DAZ store as just a place to get poser content, it is mainly a place to get DAZ content, which sometimes works in poser.
I sincerely hope nothing I said has made either of you feel that way. What I was expressing was simply how I feel and it would be a boring old world if we are all the same. ; )
Hugs
Pen
No worries Pen. There was nothing you said that was offensive to me.
Cool…its just so easy on the net for stuff you say to not express clearly what you think it does.
One of the other things that people seem to neglect to mention when talking about Genesis is the UV swapping ability and how useful that can be.
For one of my RRR entries last month I was working on a hag figure. I dialed in a lot of full body morphs to varying strengths like emaciated and hag to get the overall look that I wanted. The genesis MFD still fit fine. But, here’s the kicker, I was looking for a good texture to use for this. While digging through my runtimes I came across The Immortal. Great texture, but it’s for M4. No problem, apply the MAT to my female hag figure and switch the UV map to M4, done. Good luck doing that with V4!
Now maybe I’m in a bit of a different boat because I came to DAZ about a year ago after a very long hiatus (pre-Milenium Woman) so Genesis was already out. But, I almost never buy gen4 content, and when I do it’s with Genesis in mind. I still haven’t bought Gen X but I’ll at least buy good looking textures from time to time (less often now as I have quite a few now). There’s still a few characters that are tempting me in gen4 but it’s much smaller and if anything it’s pushing me to want to pick up genX so that I can use them with Genesis.
The simple ability to mix and match morphs and having clothing and props generally just work is just awesome. Trolls in dresses aside, it’s pretty cool to be able to throw in some Freak onto a troll and still put armour on him, or similar. It’s not perfect but considering I remember days when the canned content that came with Poser wouldn’t properly fit the base figure in the default pose. We’ve really come a long way.
Gollum: Genesis only? Genesis only? Arrgh! Gollum! We hates Daz!
Smeagol: But Daz is our friend. Daz would never-
Gollum: Daz is trickesy. So very tricksy. They seduces us with their sales, Makes us spend our discretionary income. Then, right before Christmas, they comes out with Satsuki. Satsuki! Even lovelier than Ksenia she is. And she’s Genesis only!
Smeagol: Perhaps we could trade the ring for her?
Gollum: My precious? (Glances between ring and Satsuki store page several times.) Gollum! We hates Daz…forever!
...my notebook was almost coated in Earl Grey tea reading this.
Great job.
That aside I picked her up. Heck for 2.31$ (after using my PC coupon), a steal for such a cutie who will also work beautifully for a teen character.
Are there any alternative eyelash mats for Satsuki? The lower ones are way too long IMO, spoils an otherwise great character.
YOu can always use a different eyelash transmap from another character.
OK, will try that, thanks!
Taozen - 09 December 2012 03:59 AM
Mattymanx - 08 December 2012 12:08 AM
Taozen - 07 December 2012 11:18 PM
Are there any alternative eyelash mats for Satsuki? The lower ones are way too long IMO, spoils an otherwise great character.
YOu can always use a different eyelash transmap from another character.
OK, will try that, thanks!
FWIW, the eyelashes can be dialed down or out to fit most needs, and the bottom ones pretty much disappear… this is a Satsuki/basic female combo using the Satsuki mats.
As a Genesis user, there are V4 characters that I haven’t bought because I felt a Genesis version could’ve been included (when paying a premium price, I want to see “official” Genesis version rather than relying purely on GenX conversion myself)... So I suppose it’s swings-and-roundabouts to a certain degree.
But gotta say, Satsuki’s shaping options are quite exquisite - this is breast preset 1 combined with hips preset 2, and full belly applied…
All I can say is that Satsuki finally inspired me to complete my first image using DS4.5.
Love all from Thorne and Sarsa so this is no exception!
I used to think, why isn’t there a V4 version, every time a new Genesis character came out but I think it’s just a matter of getting used to the new and running with it.
One thing that may not be clear is how the workflow of making this kind of character goes - If you make your morphs in zbrush or another “mesh sculpting” app rather than by using dials, you have to start with the base mesh and work on it until it has the shapes you want. If you start with the V4 base mesh, you can port the finished character to Genesis using Gen X and then tweak it, but if you start with the Genesis mesh, you can’t make the same port in reverse - you would have to re-do your work all over again for V4. And if you’re sculpting, the Genesis base mesh starts out as grey, flat chested, etc - it’s great if you want to sculpt a woman figure from a kind of generic base without having to deal with the boobs and so on already being there. But it makes the process different, unless you start with the V4 shape for Genesis - and even then you’d have to do it twice. So when someone is inspired to do something “from scratch” for Genesis it’s rarely practical and sometimes not even possible to do the same thing for V4.
If you’ve only been using Poser for a year you might be surprised at how many gorgeous characters from Thorne & Sarsa are available for V4 - I have a huge heap of them, as well as a lot of their A3 characters, since she’s my favorite figure. So if you’re not ready to take the plunge with Genesis you might want to look through their catalog and see if there’s another character who would like to join your runtime, as sort of a consolation buy
,i’ve already got them 
