Satsuki for...

NaviNavi Posts: 289
edited December 1969 in The Commons

Genesis only :shut: , now I hate Genesis forever...

I'm saving money, but I'm mad, too.

«13

Comments

  • edited December 1969

    Gollum: Genesis only? Genesis only? Arrgh! Gollum! We hates Daz!

    Smeagol: But Daz is our friend. Daz would never-

    Gollum: Daz is trickesy. So very tricksy. They seduces us with their sales, Makes us spend our discretionary income. Then, right before Christmas, they comes out with Satsuki. Satsuki! Even lovelier than Ksenia she is. And she's Genesis only!

    Smeagol: Perhaps we could trade the ring for her?

    Gollum: My precious? (Glances between ring and Satsuki store page several times.) Gollum! We hates Daz...forever!

  • sikeussikeus Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Gollum: Genesis only? Genesis only? Arrgh! Gollum! We hates Daz!

    Smeagol: But Daz is our friend. Daz would never-

    Gollum: Daz is trickesy. So very tricksy. They seduces us with their sales, Makes us spend our discretionary income. Then, right before Christmas, they comes out with Satsuki. Satsuki! Even lovelier than Ksenia she is. And she's Genesis only!

    Smeagol: Perhaps we could trade the ring for her?

    Gollum: My precious? (Glances between ring and Satsuki store page several times.) Gollum! We hates Daz...forever!

    lol, that's hysterically funny! :lol:

  • TaozenTaozen Posts: 2,237
    edited December 2012

    Are there any alternative eyelash mats for Satsuki? The lower ones are way too long IMO, spoils an otherwise great character.

    Post edited by Taozen on
  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 1,271
    edited December 1969

    navibass said:
    Genesis only :shut: , now I hate Genesis forever...

    I'm saving money, but I'm mad, too.

    Just install the free DS4.5 and you are set. No reason you can't use more than one figure.

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,482
    edited December 1969

    Taozen said:
    Are there any alternative eyelash mats for Satsuki? The lower ones are way too long IMO, spoils an otherwise great character.


    YOu can always use a different eyelash transmap from another character.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 2012

    Part of me wishes I hadn't seen this thread. I did a search for Satsuki on the store and simply HAD to add her to my runtime. She's adorable! As for those sitting on the fence about Genesis, shame on you. Life is so much easier when one outfit fits all!

    Speaking of which, does anyone know what outfit Satsuki is wearing in the promo image?
    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/satsuki-for-genesis

    Post edited by Herald of Fire on
  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 2012

    It most certainly does! Thanks for the link. I spent the last 20 minutes trying to find it and failing. Here's a quick render of Satsuki using Lux. She's quite a beauty.

    Satsuki.png
    1000 x 660 - 506K
    Post edited by Herald of Fire on
  • anikadanikad Posts: 1,860
    edited December 1969

    She's gorgeous and what a gorgeous render.

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    Thanks, though the render has only been baking for a short time so it's still a bit fuzzy. I'm still rendering a big project at the moment, so most of my render time is devoted to that rather than my new toys :D

    Still, the upside of working with Lux is I can use Daz in the background without upsetting the render since its an external program. Right now I'm playing with mixing Satsuki's morphs with other Genesis characters to see what other pretty combinations I can come up with. I don't want to flood the forum with images, but I do have a younger Satsuki rendering in Lux right now. It's always fun to experiment.

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 1969

    It most certainly does! Thanks for the link. I spent the last 20 minutes trying to find it and failing. Here's a quick render of Satsuki using Lux. She's quite a beauty.

    Keep in mind that Satsuki uses the HSS in DAZ, which Reality does a poor job of converting to Lux material definition. At a minimum, turn off the top coat option it sets on all the surfaces.

    Along the comment on the eyelashes, I also replaced the iris and pupil texture maps with ones from from another character, since the Satsuki eyes commit the cardinal sin of having baked-in reflections. That might be acceptable for 3Delight renders, but it makes them unusable in LuxRender.

    The skin is also a V4 UV, so those complaining that she's for Genesis, if you only want the skin, you can still use that easily enough. But that'd be kind of a waste in my opinion, as she's great morph material for Genesis. I went to bed at 3AM last night after spending hours designing a new character+kitbash'd outfit around her. Time flies when you're having fun. She really is quite compelling.

  • NaviNavi Posts: 289
    edited December 1969

    Ok, now for people trying to help,

    navibass said:
    Genesis only :shut: , now I hate Genesis forever...

    I'm saving money, but I'm mad, too.

    Just install the free DS4.5 and you are set. No reason you can't use more than one figure.

    Thank you for the tip, yes I've got Ds4.5 indeed, but I don't use it, using Poser 9; I think there should be a V4 body and head shape in the first place, as she is still the figure most people are using (except on this forum it seems). This is most likely possible with V4 and A4 morphs, so I'm not sure why Thorne and Sarsa did this :roll:

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 2012

    cwichura said:
    It most certainly does! Thanks for the link. I spent the last 20 minutes trying to find it and failing. Here's a quick render of Satsuki using Lux. She's quite a beauty.
    Keep in mind that Satsuki uses the HSS in DAZ, which Reality does a poor job of converting to Lux material definition. At a minimum, turn off the top coat option it sets on all the surfaces.

    Along the comment on the eyelashes, I also replaced the iris and pupil texture maps with ones from from another character, since the Satsuki eyes commit the cardinal sin of having baked-in reflections. That might be acceptable for 3Delight renders, but it makes them unusable in LuxRender.

    The skin is also a V4 UV, so those complaining that she's for Genesis, if you only want the skin, you can still use that easily enough. But that'd be kind of a waste in my opinion, as she's great morph material for Genesis. I went to bed at 3AM last night after spending hours designing a new character+kitbash'd outfit around her. Time flies when you're having fun. She really is quite compelling.

    Thanks for the tips. I'm still fairly new to Reality 2, so I'm still getting to grips with how the new materials work. Took me a while to figure out why some of my characters had pitch black eyes. It was like staring into the abyss!

    Thank you for the tip, yes I've got Ds4.5 indeed, but I don't use it, using Poser 9; I think there should be a V4 body and head shape in the first place, as she is still the figure most people are using (except on this forum it seems). This is most likely possible with V4 and A4 morphs, so I'm not sure why Thorne and Sarsa did this :roll:

    I'm curious as to why you installed Daz if you didn't intend to use it, but I digress. As much as you probably don't want to hear it, Genesis has significant compatibility with other characters via the autofit feature. Perhaps they didn't include V4 as standard because Genesis takes full advantage of the ability to mix and match morphs, giving you greater control over your creativity. There is still an Aiko and V4 morph available for Genesis, should you decide you prefer it and since you're using Poser 9, you can still import Genesis characters to Poser as well.

    There's no reason you can't have your cake and eat it. :)

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    navibass said:
    I think there should be a V4 body and head shape in the first place, as she is still the figure most people are using (except on this forum it seems).

    here you go:
    http://www.daz3d.com/shop/v4-and-m4-shapes-for-genesis

  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 1969

    I think he meant bundled with Genesis.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,524
    edited December 1969

    navibass said:
    Ok, now for people trying to help,

    navibass said:
    Genesis only :shut: , now I hate Genesis forever...

    I'm saving money, but I'm mad, too.

    Just install the free DS4.5 and you are set. No reason you can't use more than one figure.

    Thank you for the tip, yes I've got Ds4.5 indeed, but I don't use it, using Poser 9; I think there should be a V4 body and head shape in the first place, as she is still the figure most people are using (except on this forum it seems). This is most likely possible with V4 and A4 morphs, so I'm not sure why Thorne and Sarsa did this :roll:

    Possibly because like many vendors have previously stated making things for Genesis helps their sales. Many have stated that it wasn't worth their time to do Gen 4 stuff also as it didn't sell well enough to justify it.

    There are also people who are happy to buy the Gen4 to use on genesis but personally I'm not one of them. I only get tempted by something that is really exceptional to do this.

  • NaviNavi Posts: 289
    edited December 1969

    navibass said:
    Thank you for the tip, yes I've got Ds4.5 indeed, but I don't use it, using Poser 9; I think there should be a V4 body and head shape in the first place, as she is still the figure most people are using (except on this forum it seems). This is most likely possible with V4 and A4 morphs, so I'm not sure why Thorne and Sarsa did this :roll:
    I'm curious as to why you installed Daz if you didn't intend to use it, but I digress. As much as you probably don't want to hear it, Genesis has significant compatibility with other characters via the autofit feature. Perhaps they didn't include V4 as standard because Genesis takes full advantage of the ability to mix and match morphs, giving you greater control over your creativity. There is still an Aiko and V4 morph available for Genesis, should you decide you prefer it and since you're using Poser 9, you can still import Genesis characters to Poser as well.

    There's no reason you can't have your cake and eat it. :)

    Thank you :) , yeah I know it's hard to explain, but in a few words : I've got the Ds4.5 files, it's not installed. Took me about one year to be able to make decent pictures with Poser, so i'm not in a hurry to learn another program, which is looking very different. Plus, I've got so many light sets and stuff for Poser, zero things for Daz, meaning I would have to buy everything again. And I can't afford right now.

    Perhaps Genesis is not that bad :) , but I don't wish to switch figures yet; bought so much stuff in one year and a half that genesis came too soon for me... Plus I see no need to change atm, since the "Perfect fixes" are making V4 probably even more real-looking than genesis (but that's another story).

    So there is the Dson thing, too, you can say. I didn't play with it yet, because (unless I didn't understand right), it means I have to reinstall every clothes, hairs, etc, if I want them to work.

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 1969

    If you've been using Poser 9 with standard gen 4 content, then adding DSON stuff to support Genesis does not require you to re-install anything, since you don't have any of it installed to begin with. Install the DSON plugin for Poser, and that will get you the Genesis base figure and a few sample clothes. You can then use products for Genesis that have had Poser companion files created (which includes Satsuki). Now, to put clothes on her, you'll also need Genesis-type clothing, granted, since the DSON plugin for Poser doesn't let you do autofit conversions. Is that what you meant by re-installing all your clothes?

  • NaviNavi Posts: 289
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:

    Possibly because like many vendors have previously stated making things for Genesis helps their sales. Many have stated that it wasn't worth their time to do Gen 4 stuff also as it didn't sell well enough to justify it.

    There are also people who are happy to buy the Gen4 to use on genesis but personally I'm not one of them. I only get tempted by something that is really exceptional to do this.

    Well, I've often been wondering about that statement, that I remember seeing too, somewhere on this forum. If they sell more than they would sell for V4, fair enough, but if that's true, I wonder how is it possible than the 2 other major online shops aren't starving ? Because 99,9 % of content is still V4, on these places.

    Leads me to say that a Satsuki for V4 would be more universal than a genesis Satsuki :lol: , since the Genesis people do have everything needed to get her as a genesis char (while the opposite is not - not always - true).

  • NaviNavi Posts: 289
    edited December 1969

    cwichura said:
    If you've been using Poser 9 with standard gen 4 content, then adding DSON stuff to support Genesis does not require you to re-install anything, since you don't have any of it installed to begin with. Install the DSON plugin for Poser, and that will get you the Genesis base figure and a few sample clothes. You can then use products for Genesis that have had Poser companion files created (which includes Satsuki). Now, to put clothes on her, you'll also need Genesis-type clothing, granted, since the DSON plugin for Poser doesn't let you do autofit conversions. Is that what you meant by re-installing all your clothes?

    Thank you for the tips, made it more clear to me ;-) - I've a few items that are working both on Genesis and V4, just didn't re-download updated files. But these items are very, very few, compared to everything i've got for V4 so far; that's what I meant when I've said genesis looks like starting from scratch, for the average V4 user :)

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,482
    edited December 1969

    If you have the DSON importer for Poser 9 & PP 2012 then just install the Content package that comes with it and you can use Genesis WITH the Satsuki character in Poser.

    As for why the character is for one base figure and not another is simple. Time vs. value. The time required to create the character for two seperate base figures far exceeds the amount of money made back in return. When I started at this back in 2004, the Gen3 characters were the top of the line. There were 8 or more base figures and the only things they could share be default was the character maps. The most popular figures got the majority of the support via clothes, hair and character addons. If you wanted to fit an outfit that belonged to one character to another, you had to buy one of the conversion programs. For all the merchants, they choose which base figures they were going to support while all the customers did the same. It was very expensive for a customer to support multiple figures and extremely time consuming for merchants to support multiple figures. And if the figure is not one of the more popular ones then you dont see a lot of return for the time invested.

    While Genesis is not perfect, it does greatly reduce the time required to create content for it and it costs the customer a lot less as well. One muscle morph pack works with ALL Genesis characters and ALL Genesis characters can be blended as you wish to create something comepletely different. All the clothing is interchangeble meaning there is no need to make male and female versions of outfits that would be considered unisex as it morphs to fit muscels and breasts. This also makes it a very fitting base platform for making Toon characters as they no longer need any special support either.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 2,524
    edited December 1969

    navibass said:
    Pendraia said:

    Possibly because like many vendors have previously stated making things for Genesis helps their sales. Many have stated that it wasn't worth their time to do Gen 4 stuff also as it didn't sell well enough to justify it.

    There are also people who are happy to buy the Gen4 to use on genesis but personally I'm not one of them. I only get tempted by something that is really exceptional to do this.

    Well, I've often been wondering about that statement, that I remember seeing too, somewhere on this forum. If they sell more than they would sell for V4, fair enough, but if that's true, I wonder how is it possible than the 2 other major online shops aren't starving ? Because 99,9 % of content is still V4, on these places.

    As I stated in my earlier post some people who are using genesis are still happy to buy Gen4 content to use on Genesis. So they will probably still get sales from the people doing this. I've reached the point where I'm only willing to pay for Genesis content unless something exceptional comes along that I'm willing to fiddle with the conversion. I have enough Gen4 and Gen3 stuff that I'm gradually converting using autofit and other methods to keep me busy for a while.

    Please note this is only my opinion...others views may differ. Also until recently Poser users weren't able to use Genesis without a lot of work the dson importer for Poser changed this somewhat as there are now more Poser users on board with using Genesis.

    Personally I no longer use any figures that aren't Genesis based...its just too much work and I have very little spare time to play.

  • cwichuracwichura Posts: 1,000
    edited December 2012

    navibass said:
    Leads me to say that a Satsuki for V4 would be more universal than a genesis Satsuki :lol:

    The problem with that statement is that the Gen4 market is oversaturated. Yes, people still put stuff out, and there are a few vendors that are more or less content machines over at Renderosity. But it's all the same stuff we've seen over and over, just with slight variations. I spend increasingly less money on Gen4 content now, because it doesn't bring anything new to the table. Whereas I spend quite a bit on Genesis content, as Genesis is my preferred figure as it is sooooo much easier to work with.

    Post edited by cwichura on
  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,384
    edited December 2012

    Pendraia said:
    As I stated in my earlier post some people who are using genesis are still happy to buy Gen4 content to use on Genesis. So they will probably still get sales from the people doing this. I've reached the point where I'm only willing to pay for Genesis content unless something exceptional comes along that I'm willing to fiddle with the conversion. I have enough Gen4 and Gen3 stuff that I'm gradually converting using autofit and other methods to keep me busy for a while.

    Please note this is only my opinion...others views may differ. Also until recently Poser users weren't able to use Genesis without a lot of work the dson importer for Poser changed this somewhat as there are now more Poser users on board with using Genesis.

    Personally I no longer use any figures that aren't Genesis based...its just too much work and I have very little spare time to play.

    I'm of a very similar mindset personally. I won't lie, I have an absolute wealth of content available for the Gen4 characters. I have some of the millenium character content and I went through a time of picking up literally everything related to Kids 4 I could find because outfits, morphs and the like seemed so scarce. The latter is the only current downside with Genesis. No K4 morphs yet *hint hint*.

    That said, since getting Daz 4.5 I've gone a bit gung-ho and bought a ton of fresh content specifically geared towards Genesis. The reason is quite simple; one size fits all! I don't even want to guess how many pieces I've bought in total (it's a lot though) over the last month but I've never been happier to spend my hard-earned cash because I know that whatever character I use, the outfits will fit.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Genesis in my opinion was a masterstroke of genius on Daz's part. If they continue along this line of thinking, I'll be loyally sticking with them for years to come. Also. so this thread doesn't get derailed too much... get Satsuki! She's worth every penny!

    This post was in no way sponsored by Daz... but I accept donations :D

    Post edited by Herald of Fire on
  • NaviNavi Posts: 289
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for the comprehensive explanation Mattymanx, no doubt you're right on these points. I know doing her face INJ for V4 would add time to product building etc.

    But that said, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one thinking that way, I think that was not fair doing this character a genesis only character. (Especially since it's looking like one of their best character so far imho). Genesis not yet the standard Poser/daz figure, this will probably happen someday, but this didn't happen yet.

    The last 2 characters Sarsa made - before Satsuki - both had V4 support, and kuddos to Sarsa for that (Sosie and Addison are 2 of the best V4 chars I've ever seen). Too bad they didn't do again when working on Satsuki.

  • NaviNavi Posts: 289
    edited December 1969

    cwichura said:
    navibass said:
    Leads me to say that a Satsuki for V4 would be more universal than a genesis Satsuki :lol:

    The problem with that statement is that the Gen4 market is oversaturated. Yes, people still put stuff out, and there are a few vendors that are more or less content machines over at Renderosity. But it's all the same stuff we've seen over and over, just with slight variations. I spend increasingly less money on Gen4 content now, because it doesn't bring anything new to the table.

    I try to buy only stuff that add something *new* into my runtime, these days, but I see pretty well what you mean lol :)

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,482
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    As I stated in my earlier post some people who are using genesis are still happy to buy Gen4 content to use on Genesis. So they will probably still get sales from the people doing this. I've reached the point where I'm only willing to pay for Genesis content unless something exceptional comes along that I'm willing to fiddle with the conversion. I have enough Gen4 and Gen3 stuff that I'm gradually converting using autofit and other methods to keep me busy for a while.

    Please note this is only my opinion...others views may differ. Also until recently Poser users weren't able to use Genesis without a lot of work the dson importer for Poser changed this somewhat as there are now more Poser users on board with using Genesis.

    Personally I no longer use any figures that aren't Genesis based...its just too much work and I have very little spare time to play.

    I'm of a very similar mindset personally. I won't lie, I have an absolute wealth of content available for the Gen4 characters. I have some of the millenium character content and I went through a time of picking up literally everything related to Kids 4 I could find because outfits, morphs and the like seemed so scarce. The latter is the only current downside with Genesis. No K4 morphs yet *hint hint*.

    That said, since getting Daz 4.5 I've gone a bit gung-ho and bought a ton of fresh content specifically geared towards Genesis. The reason is quite simple; one size fits all! I don't even want to guess how many pieces I've bought in total (it's a lot though) over the last month but I've never been happier to spend my hard-earned cash because I know that whatever character I use, the outfits will fit.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Genesis in my opinion was a masterstroke of genius on Daz's part. If they continue along this line of thinking, I'll be loyally sticking with them for years to come. Also. so this thread doesn't get derailed too much... get Satsuki! She's worth every penny!

    This post was in no way sponsored by Daz... but I accept donations :D


    While reading Pendria's post and yours about prefered base figure preference, I could not help but think to myself that for me, its not that I like Genesis less than Aiko3, my favorite base figure, its just that I am sooo used to using Aiko3 that using her and content for her has simply become second nature to me in my thinking and actions. Please dont misread me though, Aiko3 is still my favorite base character, its just that Genesis is to me what the Gen4 should have been and I see real potential in Genesis compared to Gen4. So I dont mind working with it and making stuff for it.

    Ironically though, the majority of my wishlist here is PA owned A3 items excpet for a few set pieces and a small handful of DAZ owed Genesis items.

  • NaviNavi Posts: 289
    edited December 1969

    so this thread doesn't get derailed too much... get Satsuki! She's worth every penny!

    This post was in no way sponsored by Daz... but I accept donations :D

    But a functionnal Satsuki then, please ^^ , hehe.

    ps : Forgot to tell, but very nice render on the 1st page :)

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 3,482
    edited December 2012

    navibass said:
    But that said, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one thinking that way, I think that was not fair doing this character a genesis only character. (Especially since it's looking like one of their best character so far imho). Genesis not yet the standard Poser/daz figure, this will probably happen someday, but this didn't happen yet.


    You are not wrong to feel that way and you're not alone either. I had simular feelings when the Gen3 line up was discontinued.

    A thought on the Genesis only part. DAZ3D did buy the character from Thorne & Sarsa so they might have done it for Genesis at the request of DAZ3D.


    Btw, did you need V4 characters?

    Screenshot_-_12-12-08_-_06:23:06_PM.png
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    Post edited by Mattymanx on
  • NaviNavi Posts: 289
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:


    You are not wrong to feel that way and you're not alone either. I had simular feelings when the Gen3 line up was discontinued.

    A thought on the Genesis only part. DAZ3D did buy the character from Thorne & Sarsa so they might have done it for Genesis at the request of DAZ3D.


    Btw, did you need V4 characters?

    Yes, not sure what incidence had the fact that it is a Daz originals ? Sosie and Addison were too, and had V4 support even so, so perhaps Daz are changing they policy.

    Thank you for the thumbs :) ,i've already got them :)

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