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Help with creating clothes for Genesis…. steps involved?
Posted: 12 December 2012 04:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Spyro - 11 December 2012 10:48 PM

Ah Thanks heaps Lars!!

I knew it would be something very simple… This all is going to save me $ for not getting Zbrush… And Massive time for using max not other software that I’d have to learn. smile

my settings have always used polygon… quads is also an option (I thought they were the same)

Optimized has always been set ON for me lol, I’ll switch these off in future. I never use Tri’s (I learned that the hard way)

Glad I could help. Last night I figured out I need to spend some time with weight mapping, so that is what I am going to spend some time on tonight. then rigidity zones and bones. But maybe not in that order.

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Posted: 12 December 2012 06:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Spyro - 11 December 2012 10:48 PM

my settings have always used polygon… quads is also an option (I thought they were the same)

Found this in the docs

DAZ Studio prefers Quads or Tris. Larger sided Polys will try to display in DAZ Studio, but there is a risk of Artifacts showing up in these areas. Most DAZ Studio Artists model using quads.

So it seems like quads may be better than polys for this reason.

 

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Posted: 12 December 2012 06:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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larsmidnatt - 12 December 2012 06:14 PM
Spyro - 11 December 2012 10:48 PM

my settings have always used polygon… quads is also an option (I thought they were the same)

Found this in the docs

DAZ Studio prefers Quads or Tris. Larger sided Polys will try to display in DAZ Studio, but there is a risk of Artifacts showing up in these areas. Most DAZ Studio Artists model using quads.

So it seems like quads may be better than polys for this reason.

Quads are pretty much an industry standard by now. Topography is one of the most important parts of modelling, and using quads helps a lot with that simply because they’re more malleable than tris. You can split them easier for a start, and subdivision is a key role in the Genesis figures success. Tris also don’t play nicely with many smoothing techniques, due to the lack of vertices.

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Posted: 12 December 2012 06:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Well Triangles and Quads are both different types of polygons ... so are those horrible Ngons.
Good way to get rid of Ngons in Max, under the modifier tree select “Turn to poly’ and limit polys to 4 side in the modifers options roll out.

I dont actually know what export to obj in poly mode does that quads doesnt, so it might be fine. Its just Tris you dont want, at least not for clothing anyway, Triangles are just fine in props. But overall yes, it best to get in to the habbit of avoiding there use where possible.
Always depends what you are doing, most game engines draw everything in Tris so its often not such a big deal when making video game assets for example.

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Posted: 12 December 2012 07:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Thanks all, got another question regarding selection sets used for rigging with custom bones.

Selection Sets

Create Selection Sets (polygon groups) in your modeler. These will be used to designate the bones of the model. This can also be accomplished using DAZ Studio’s Polygon Group Editor if you prefer.

In this example I’m making a hat that has a long snake like tail. So I’m not using the transfer utility at all. Just custom bones.

So again I’m trying to avoid using DS for this stuff if possible(meaning the selection groups), is there a way to set up selection sets/polygon groups in Max that DS respects? These selection sets are totally unrelated to surface groups. I’ve been able add them in DS, but once i move on to something more complex I think it would be a pain to do it in DS.

Edit: now that I have forced myself to use the polygon group editor more isn’t all that bad in DS , but I’m still curious if I can do it in Max.

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Posted: 12 December 2012 08:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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mjc1016 - 11 December 2012 10:01 PM

Now does anyone know if there is any advantage of making some general fit morphs…something that can cover a range of figures. 
;

Maybe. I don’t know though simply because I just make tweaks to clothing for a single character I have. I don’t care about making it work for characters I may never use. But i did test if it was possible and it seems to work.

My steps.
Export clothing to hexagon and morph as needed.
When done use the send to daz button to send item back to DS.
In the new dialog in DS save as a Morph and not a new prop.
The new morph will show in the parameters.
You can save this as a morph asset if needed. otherwise will just save to the scene.

Point is that it is doable as a manually dial-able morph and not just a morph to replace a preset shape, however I think it would be tough to figure out what will be universally usable. And how many groups would you need to cover? that’s a lot of upfront time.

prolly more useful for undress morphs and such wink

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Posted: 12 December 2012 10:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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larsmidnatt - 12 December 2012 07:06 PM

Thanks all, got another question regarding selection sets used for rigging with custom bones.

Selection Sets

Create Selection Sets (polygon groups) in your modeler. These will be used to designate the bones of the model. This can also be accomplished using DAZ Studio’s Polygon Group Editor if you prefer.

In this example I’m making a hat that has a long snake like tail. So I’m not using the transfer utility at all. Just custom bones.

So again I’m trying to avoid using DS for this stuff if possible(meaning the selection groups), is there a way to set up selection sets/polygon groups in Max that DS respects? These selection sets are totally unrelated to surface groups. I’ve been able add them in DS, but once i move on to something more complex I think it would be a pain to do it in DS.

Edit: now that I have forced myself to use the polygon group editor more isn’t all that bad in DS , but I’m still curious if I can do it in Max.

To be honest I’d prefer to do the rigging in DS. There are some good tuts out there, and there’s no risk of DS not respecting it. Though, I myself have not yet played too much with bones as of yet. My next project its a tunic with a loincloth that does cover a pair of pants I recently made (Which I need to do custom FBM’s for… It’s in my render thread) The loincloth section will require several bones as I want it to be as controllable as possible. I hope to have several bones horizontally across the cloth, and many going down vertically.

I am interested to learn it in Max, should Daz respect those features.  the only concern is that OBJ don’t carry rigging information. And I’ve not had much success with FBX files between DS and MAX.

This is a tut I came across in DS - (Mind you, it was done before weight mapping was introduced).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWVB2XOjh4o&list=PL2D8D7C7D58F3F0F7&index=1&feature=plpp_video
He has a number of related vid tuts.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 04:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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larsmidnatt - 12 December 2012 07:06 PM

Thanks all, got another question regarding selection sets used for rigging with custom bones.

Selection Sets

Create Selection Sets (polygon groups) in your modeler. These will be used to designate the bones of the model. This can also be accomplished using DAZ Studio’s Polygon Group Editor if you prefer.

In this example I’m making a hat that has a long snake like tail. So I’m not using the transfer utility at all. Just custom bones.

So again I’m trying to avoid using DS for this stuff if possible(meaning the selection groups), is there a way to set up selection sets/polygon groups in Max that DS respects? These selection sets are totally unrelated to surface groups. I’ve been able add them in DS, but once i move on to something more complex I think it would be a pain to do it in DS.

Edit: now that I have forced myself to use the polygon group editor more isn’t all that bad in DS , but I’m still curious if I can do it in Max.

Well, “yes and no” regarding poly groups in max…
If you are doing a rig from scratch (not transfer utility). you most certainly can make the Poly groups in Max and its MUCH faster than doing it Daz Studio or Poser.
BUT (and its a very big ‘but’ here), I dont advise using this method for a flexible / bending objects (like limbs) because it will break up the smoothing and also might also cause the object to split at the seams when the bones are moved around.
It is only suitable for static objects like props and enviroments. e.g, walls windows and doors -or anything else than doesn’t need its geometry to bend..

In Max, you must break up your Model in to different sections: To do this:

1) In edit poly mode, select the faces you want for a group, then do a ‘detatch’  to object (not element) and give the object a meaningful name. Repeat until you have all your groups.

2) When you do the export, select all the model parts and do an “Export selected” to a single .OBJ

3) Now when you import to Daz Studio (or Poser) It will regognise all the different sections as poly groups.  But you will still have to add the bones in Daz Studio -and remember, each bone you make MUST be named the same as its poly group, or else it will not bind the two. smile

 

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Posted: 13 December 2012 07:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Spyro - 12 December 2012 10:54 PM

To be honest I’d prefer to do the rigging in DS. There are some good tuts out there, and there’s no risk of DS not respecting it. Though, I myself have not yet played too much with bones as of yet. My next project its a tunic with a loincloth that does cover a pair of pants I recently made (Which I need to do custom FBM’s for… It’s in my render thread) The loincloth section will require several bones as I want it to be as controllable as possible. I hope to have several bones horizontally across the cloth, and many going down vertically.

This is a tut I came across in DS - (Mind you, it was done before weight mapping was introduced).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWVB2XOjh4o&list=PL2D8D7C7D58F3F0F7&index=1&feature=plpp_video
He has a number of related vid tuts.

Thanks for the link. I’m not trying to rig in Max myself, just set up polygroups to use for rigging in studio. I have done a few items with bones last night, and DS can autocreate bones based on polygon groups. So if polygroups are already created you don’t have to actually draw each bone in studio. You would still rig it in studio though.

Dogz - 13 December 2012 04:36 AM

Well, “yes and no” regarding poly groups in max…

 

Thanks, that answers it. This explains what I noticed through experimenting. I imported a few daz items in max And noticed if I didn’t choose to make them a single mesh the poly groups would remain intact but obviously the pieces weren’t welded. Wasn’t sure if I could keep the item intact and have the groups at the same time but looks like no.

So I’ll use Max poly groups for props and stick to assigning face groups in Studio for clothes.

Last night I rigged a really ugly monster I made and even did some rigitdity groups on a bikini I made earlier. All the links in this thread have been helpful. At this point now I just need to actually make something worth looking at so I’ll be quiet now smile

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Posted: 13 December 2012 07:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Make sure you post your creations here so we can see cheese

I guess i too will assign face groups in studio for clothes. Since my next item will require added bones, I will follow your and Dogz advice smile

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Posted: 13 December 2012 11:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Question…

I need to learn the method of creating Custom FBM’s.

I came across this video in Community>Publishing. It seems to use transfer tool to create the “basic Fit” in which you export and edit. ( I have already used the transfer tool to get the basic shapes, they just distort in areas, such as the holster straps and buckles)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4gjtHPKtuM&feature=player_embedded#!

Is this the way I should go about it? I’m totally new to this, and intend to use 3ds max

I would like to have the clothing using the shape eg. M5, so that my work in max is only to clean up the mesh not re-create the entire M5 shape from the default Genesis pants.

FBM’s I wish to create are M5, M4, Basic Male, M5 James, M5 Benjamin, Murgatroid’s Tweens Boy (These are my priority) and consider doing Basic Female, V5, V4, S5 (Depending on the top that’s part of the outfit which has not yet been modeled).

EDIT: Found these which are interesting watch… If I can do the same as MODO in Max, I’ll be laughing smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppi—4q56B0&list=PLE026B44096BBD507&index=6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-SKYTOkVo4&list=PLE026B44096BBD507&index=7

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Posted: 14 December 2012 03:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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I usually tidy up in max with the soft selection tools,
The wieght map brush in DS, might help you a bit, but its primarily for improving the defermation of joints when they are bent.
The straps and buckles are in a good postiton in the sense that they are not over any joints so they should not get much distortion on bends.
But if they warp badly on certain charactrer shapes, custom FBMs is the probabably the best solution. You can try making ridgity groups (there is a tutorial on Daz Docs) - personally Ive never been able to get them to work.

If I were in you shoes, I would would I rig a copy of the pants without the straps, to get an auto generated morph for those, then fit the non distorted straps manually in Max for each FBM reattach and export.,  But if you do it this ‘cheat’ way - the attach order in Max has to be 100% constistent with the orginal strapped version, or else the vert order wont match and you will get exploding geometry in DS when you dial in the morph. So it will work ok if all four straps (as a single mesh)  was the last thing you attached to the pants. If you attached them to the pants piece by peice, its not going to work (unless you start fresh)
Its not the most ideal way of doing it - just a muddle though type work around more than anything. But if you try it, write down your attach order to a note pad file for your own reference.

Great looking pants by the way smile

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Posted: 14 December 2012 04:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Attached is a series of renders of Daz’s transferred FBM’s (Not custom FBM’s)

Basic Male seems to work quite well. M5 James and M5 Benjamin are rather similar to the distortion of M5.


—————
So Dogz…

What your saying is that I should re-export Base Genesis Pants, having added the straps last, and export the pants from Daz with FBM’s in play, delete the straps on in Max, worn by Daz’s export, and add the default genesis Straps and shape to fit the FBM?

Wont adding default genesis straps to the FBM which previously had straps screw up the FBM when used in Daz?

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Posted: 14 December 2012 05:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Not quite. I was saying, export one with straps added last (you main item) and export one with no straps.
Use the no strap one to make the auto generated FBMs, then add the straps to them in max. Delete the no straps version when finished.

But now - looking at your renders, Dude - I wouldnt bother with FBMs at all! there is so little distortion there, they dont really need FBMs that badly, they are pretty much just fine,
Well ok, maybe on the Michael 5 one, select the buckle verts in max, use soft slection to make some minor tweaks and maybe add a relax modifer on a value of 1.0 for good messure, but that should really be sufficient.
Dont give your self more work than you need to, you dont need FBMs for the sake of having FBMs, if looks like that with autofit, then its job well done and move on to the next item smile.

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Posted: 14 December 2012 05:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Oh .. hang one second! I might have spokent oo soon.
Are you using mesh smoothing modifier in DS and if so what is the iteration setting?
If that is 0-5 iterations you are fine. but if its 10+ then you need to see how it looks with mesh smoothing down to 2. Or if you intend to make its DSON ready, you should see how it looks with mesh smoothing turned off.
then decide what to do with custom FBMs based on that

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