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Help with creating clothes for Genesis…. steps involved?
Posted: 11 December 2012 06:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Thanks for the good info Dogz. I’ve got a question to other Max users. How can I get DS to recognize elements or material ID’s I created in Max as separate surfaces? I’m a bit rusty but I seem to remember a fair bit from back in the Max 3-5 era, and was able to get a dress set up with 3 mat id’s and UV mapped them separately. I even tried detaching them as elements. In DS you can see that the UVmapping is right with three distinct areas, but they are all one surface. I don’t want to have to use Hexagon or DS to redefine the surfaces since I prefer the selection tools in MAX. Also it would be double work to set things up in Max and then have to do it again.

Just wondering if there are any particular steps I should be taking.

After a long absence from the Max scene I got back into it yesterday (because hexagon failed me over the weekend and I don’t like how blender looks, and I really, really was missing Max).  In just a few hours I had a few poorly built tops a couple of dresses and a skirt made and brought into DS as triax items. The joy, lot of technique to relearn though. Forgot how satisfying turning edges is smile

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Posted: 11 December 2012 07:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Dogz - 11 December 2012 04:53 AM
fixme12 - 11 December 2012 03:59 AM
3D Toons - 07 December 2012 09:10 AM

Thanks for the link….. help me a little on my way. Shame that the most important steps are still missing…... 

Basics: Adding Bones
Basics: Adjusting Weight Maps
Basics: Creating Custom Shapes (morphs)
Basics: Setting Up Surfaces

Hopefully they get done soon.

and why do you think this information is not given?
otherwise, anyone can create content.
once you know how it is here sometimes to go, you lose all your interest in your hobby 3d.
move on to digitaltutors, go there to learn more.

Heh intreasting theory. but its a double edged sword for Daz, at the same time, more people learn to rig = more published artists = more products for Daz to sell and get 50% commission,
So I really doubt there is any grand conspiricy here, its just Daz being slack at documentation,  its just not their highest priority, thats all.

Spyro - 11 December 2012 03:47 AM

Yeah that’s what I meant… Transfer tool gives to default FBM’s (Fits)  But with many items of clothing (Especially footwear) Custom FBM’s need to be made, which is where your tut comes in real handy. I’m very much new to genesis clothing making, so all this is very much helpful smile - Just getting my head around it all lol

——————

EDIT: Yep, I just trialled some things I’m working on and I totally see the requirement for ‘custom FBM’s’ without them, it really messes up your models lol. (I wish there was a GOZ to 3ds Max…)

If you have Max check out the ‘morph modifer’ its really handy for adjusting UVs on custom FBMs,
E.g You made a female top, for Genesis but the UVs streatch when you dial in a shape with large breasts (like a Vicki or an Aiko):

1) Export the top with the Large breastes shape dialed in.
2) Import it to a max scene with the default mesh clothing loaded, (then move it to one side so its position doesn’t overlap the original)
3) With regular item selected, add the Morph modifier to the stack and define the large breasted one as the morph target.
4) now that you can dial in the morph in Max - (Just like you can in Daz Studio); you can relax the UVs around the breasts a bit so they dont streatch as bad.
5) Dial out the morph and re export to DS and save it over the old version of your top.

Of course you can also do this via saving and loading UVs, but i find that in Max that doesnt work very well. (its buggy and some times screws the UVs up completely)

 

I use OBJ as the file type to export files from 3ds Max to Daz, I’ve worked out the scaling to be spot on… The prob I have is that when I export a file from daz to max so I can make a morph… after making the morph when I go to import the ‘morphed’ OBJ as a morph with morph loader in DAZ it goes all distorted and crazy. Instead of the nice neat morph I made, the slider destroys the model.

If I could make it work… custom FBM creation and morphs would be so much more easier to deal with. (I’m not fond of hex and don’t have zbrush) I’ve got a number of items I need to create FBM’s and morphs for. smile

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Posted: 11 December 2012 07:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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larsmidnatt - 11 December 2012 06:56 AM

Thanks for the good info Dogz. I’ve got a question to other Max users. How can I get DS to recognize elements or material ID’s I created in Max as separate surfaces? I’m a bit rusty but I seem to remember a fair bit from back in the Max 3-5 era, and was able to get a dress set up with 3 mat id’s and UV mapped them separately. I even tried detaching them as elements. In DS you can see that the UVmapping is right with three distinct areas, but they are all one surface. I don’t want to have to use Hexagon or DS to redefine the surfaces since I prefer the selection tools in MAX. Also it would be double work to set things up in Max and then have to do it again.

Just wondering if there are any particular steps I should be taking.

After a long absence from the Max scene I got back into it yesterday (because hexagon failed me over the weekend and I don’t like how blender looks, and I really, really was missing Max).  In just a few hours I had a few poorly built tops a couple of dresses and a skirt made and brought into DS as triax items. The joy, lot of technique to relearn though. Forgot how satisfying turning edges is smile

While i’m up to date with creating things and exporting them to DAZ from MAX… bringing things back from DAZ to MAX is difficult for me. I use OBJ, and it doesnt give me material zones/rigging/morphs. There is a thread on 3ds max where ppl would export their daz stuff to max for rendering in Art Studio forum. They a helpful bunch smile But they work opposite to me lol I send stuff to daz instead… (Prob why I have trouble getting daz stuff to work in max lol)

- Dispite this I fail at creating morphs for files in daz from max… Which is why I’m asking Dogz lol

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Posted: 11 December 2012 07:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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larsmidnatt - 11 December 2012 06:56 AM

Thanks for the good info Dogz. I’ve got a question to other Max users. How can I get DS to recognize elements or material ID’s I created in Max as separate surfaces? I’m a bit rusty but I seem to remember a fair bit from back in the Max 3-5 era, and was able to get a dress set up with 3 mat id’s and UV mapped them separately. I even tried detaching them as elements. In DS you can see that the UVmapping is right with three distinct areas, but they are all one surface. I don’t want to have to use Hexagon or DS to redefine the surfaces since I prefer the selection tools in MAX. Also it would be double work to set things up in Max and then have to do it again.

Just wondering if there are any particular steps I should be taking.

After a long absence from the Max scene I got back into it yesterday (because hexagon failed me over the weekend and I don’t like how blender looks, and I really, really was missing Max).  In just a few hours I had a few poorly built tops a couple of dresses and a skirt made and brought into DS as triax items. The joy, lot of technique to relearn though. Forgot how satisfying turning edges is smile

Well Mat IDs to Surface Groups is a no brainer. smile

In Max open the material editor Create A new material for each suface group you want to create. be sure to name them properly so you know what they are.
Lets say you have shirt and you want a different goup for the sleeves.
1) In material editor rename one of the material slots to ‘Sleeve’
2) Then in Edit poly mode select your faces for the sleeve and drag and drop the Sleeve material from the edior on to the select faces of your mesh.
3) Lastly, make sure you check ‘export materials’ on your OBJ export in Max

Thats all there is to it. Daz will automatically interpret the different mat IDs as ‘Surface groups’, and it will Retain the same name you called it Max.

*One other handy tip, if an area of geometry is tricky to select in ‘Edit poly mode’ but you have it UV mapped already. Got to your Edit UV modifier and select the UVs in face mode. then convert to Editible Poly and go to face mode - it will bring back the face selection you medit in Edit UVs.
In Edit poly mode you can all so select by Smoothing group in the Editable Poly Roll out.


What do you mean by ‘Elements’? In Max, an Element is part of the mesh where the verts are not joined. Id avoid doing that for Genesis clothing, weld everything if possible, or else it might come apart in DS when you autofit to a shape or pose. You dont want big holes in your clothing smile
If you mean to make a visible seam for say where a sleeve joins at the shoulder, just bevel it in and Define a seperate smoothing group for the sleeve. Then when you add your subdivisions in Max (mesh smooth or Turbo Smooth) Check the ‘Smoothing groups’ check box in the Modifiers roll out. This will tell Max to use use the smoothing groups bounderies as limits when it sub divides.
Daz applys smoothing rather differently to Max, but Maxs smoothing groups translate quite well to DS, so long as you define the smoothing groups on your low poly mesh in max and tell your subdivision modifier to leave them intact.

 

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Posted: 11 December 2012 07:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Spyro - 11 December 2012 07:32 AM

I use OBJ as the file type to export files from 3ds Max to Daz, I’ve worked out the scaling to be spot on… The prob I have is that when I export a file from daz to max so I can make a morph… after making the morph when I go to import the ‘morphed’ OBJ as a morph with morph loader in DAZ it goes all distorted and crazy. Instead of the nice neat morph I made, the slider destroys the model.

If I could make it work… custom FBM creation and morphs would be so much more easier to deal with. (I’m not fond of hex and don’t have zbrush) I’ve got a number of items I need to create FBM’s and morphs for. smile

I got this to work after trial and error. I don’t know exactly what got it to work though. I made a breast morph in max and exported it about 6 times before I got the settings correctly. But I know what you are talking about. I should have wrote down my settings but I just figured it out last night after midnight and I really needed to be in bed. I’ll try to figure it out at lunch…

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Posted: 11 December 2012 08:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Dogz - 11 December 2012 07:43 AM

* Dropped some knowledge*

Thanks for this. Will try when I get home. I didn’t originally want to use elements for the reasons you mentioned but I noticed some of the clothing I was studying used elements for certain pieces and figured it was worth a shot.  I appreciate the quick reply and the step by step info.

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Posted: 11 December 2012 08:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Spyro - 11 December 2012 07:32 AM

I use OBJ as the file type to export files from 3ds Max to Daz, I’ve worked out the scaling to be spot on… The prob I have is that when I export a file from daz to max so I can make a morph… after making the morph when I go to import the ‘morphed’ OBJ as a morph with morph loader in DAZ it goes all distorted and crazy. Instead of the nice neat morph I made, the slider destroys the model.

If I could make it work… custom FBM creation and morphs would be so much more easier to deal with. (I’m not fond of hex and don’t have zbrush) I’ve got a number of items I need to create FBM’s and morphs for. smile

In this case it sounds to me like you have changed your vert order somehow when editing/importing/exporting the target mesh.  I would have to ask you to run me though eveything you are doing and exacly how your are doing it, in order to try and identify the problem.

Try and study the way in which the mesh gets destroyed by the slider in DS, e.g what faces are shifing and to where?, this can sometimes give you a valuable clue.
Did you try to work with a low poly mesh in DS (just to generate morphs) then smooth it in Max and re-export? If so i think that DS wont like it very much.

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Posted: 11 December 2012 08:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Spyro - 11 December 2012 07:37 AM

While i’m up to date with creating things and exporting them to DAZ from MAX… bringing things back from DAZ to MAX is difficult for me. I use OBJ, and it doesnt give me material zones/rigging/morphs. There is a thread on 3ds max where ppl would export their daz stuff to max for rendering in Art Studio forum. They a helpful bunch smile But they work opposite to me lol I send stuff to daz instead… (Prob why I have trouble getting daz stuff to work in max lol)

- Dispite this I fail at creating morphs for files in daz from max… Which is why I’m asking Dogz lol

Why do you need to bring that info from DS in to Max?

Rigging and Morphs are not something OBJ format has really been written to accomadate.
OBJ exports, Vert co-ordinates, Normals, UVs, material IDs and Smoothing groups - thats about it.

When making a morph target version of your Mesh, All DS & Morph Loader Pro cares about (on the target OBJ) is Vertex count, order and postion. it discards everything else like normals, UVs, Material zones etc as it already has all this information from the main mesh.

If you are making clothing, the fact that you lose this info going from DS to MAX really shouldnt matter, Since Daz Studio doesn’t need that information back again for the morph targets…So with that in mind, Max doesnt need it back either,
The only time I could imagine this being important is if you where trying to add DS content to a Max scene to render in Max, in which case you would want to use FBX or something.
But If you do ever want to combine scenes between Max and DS - its logstically 100 times easier to bring Max stuff over to DS than vice versa.
(Unless you desperately need to render it with mental Ray or something.)

 

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Posted: 11 December 2012 09:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Thanks Dogz! I’m glad I found another group of people that use ‘Max for Daz’ smile I will try again with some simple morph perhaps tomorrow, as it is late here. I’ve learned a heap in these last few posts. If you dont mind, could I PM you some questions in the future in regards to making morphs and FBM’s and importing them to Daz, should I have difficulties?

And thanks also Lars! cheese I look forward to learning what it is that solved the issue we share smile

Cheers smile

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Posted: 11 December 2012 09:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Spyro - 11 December 2012 09:10 AM

could I PM you some questions in the future in regards to making morphs and FBM’s and importing them to Daz, should I have difficulties?

Cheers smile

NOOOOOOOO!!

Only Joking - of course you can, anytime mate raspberry
glad i could help and good luck. smile

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Posted: 11 December 2012 11:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Dogz, that worked wonderfully. Thanks again.

Spyro, To stop the morph from exploding when exporting from Max uncheck vertex optimization. I thought that was it but didn’t want to say anything until I was able to confirm it wasn’t something else I did. It seems to be that one box is really the most important thing. There may be something else going on for you, but this is what fixes/breaks it for me.

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Posted: 11 December 2012 12:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Thanks for that lars ^- good to know.smile
Couldnt help noticing you have Faces set to ‘Triangles’ there in your screenshot, im guessing that was just an export for demonstration purposes?
You probably knew this already ...and Im probably about to patronise you :(...... but just in case you didnt know - ALWAYS use Quads. triangulated meshes are pure evil as they subdivide very badly.


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Posted: 11 December 2012 01:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Dogz - 11 December 2012 12:55 PM

Thanks for that lars ^- good to know.smile
Couldnt help noticing you have Faces set to ‘Triangles’ there in your screenshot, im guessing that was just an export for demonstation purposes?
You probably knew this already ...and Im probably about to patronise you :(...... but just in case you didnt know - ALWAYS use Quads. triangulated meshes are pure evil smile

Oopsies, yeah leave to quads. When I couldn’t figure out why things were exploding I tried switching to Tri’s. In a former life of mine tri’s was the only thing allowed… but that was long ago and not really relevant anymore. I’ll be sure to switch that back when i get home so I’m glad you mentioned it.

 

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Posted: 11 December 2012 10:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Umm…adding custom FBMs to an item sure takes a lot of time. 

It’s taking me at least half an hour to add each one and I’m not sure I’m getting everything matched between them, so there’s slight differences in the ‘fit’ of the item.  Of course most of that time is spent in the modeller, adjusting the fit.  I’m not counting the time spent exporting the various ‘shaped’ objs I’m using to model to…because those will be reusable for many items.  I’m setting up a ‘work area’ on my hard drive that’s going to contain the various resources, like the shape objects…probably divide them up into folders…one for females, one for males and so on.

I do have to say it does definitely add that ‘something’ that makes the whole thing look more ‘professional’.

Now does anyone know if there is any advantage of making some general fit morphs…something that can cover a range of figures. 

For example, I’m working on a shirt.  It’s going to be a unisex item, but it does not look very good with the ‘painted on’ look you get with the standard set up tools…which is the point of adding the custom morphs in the first place.  But what I was thinking was making a couple of morphs for the item based on extremes…basically from just adding in nipples to the biggest breast morphs found and giving them control sliders to allow a mix/match fit.

It will probably look better than not doing any, but probably not quite as good as doing each and every one custom.  A couple advantages, I can see…it will take a lot less time and it will make a much smaller file (there’s no way I can actually include everything…V5, S5, A5 and then the Gen4…and then the things like Troll, Annubis, Gorilla, ‘weres’ and so on)

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Posted: 11 December 2012 10:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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larsmidnatt - 11 December 2012 11:25 AM

Dogz, that worked wonderfully. Thanks again.

Spyro, To stop the morph from exploding when exporting from Max uncheck vertex optimization. I thought that was it but didn’t want to say anything until I was able to confirm it wasn’t something else I did. It seems to be that one box is really the most important thing. There may be something else going on for you, but this is what fixes/breaks it for me.

Ah Thanks heaps Lars!!

I knew it would be something very simple… This all is going to save me $ for not getting Zbrush… And Massive time for using max not other software that I’d have to learn. smile

my settings have always used polygon… quads is also an option (I thought they were the same)

Optimized has always been set ON for me lol, I’ll switch these off in future. I never use Tri’s (I learned that the hard way)

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