Digital Art Zone

Hi,

today, I installed my first DS 4 version.

There is also a content database included, which I really appreciate—at least when it works (I did not use the one in DS3 because it was to slow, as much I remember).

But now there seams to be a new engine—but it troubles me again. There was a video that showed, how fantastic it was, but not how to prepare it. Since I just don’t see any file/product whatsoever there—it just says “select something—explore it”

But: There is nothing in my “smart” content! What can I select?? Nothing shows up at all.

So, has anybody yet used it?? Does it work with Pre-Genesis-Content, or do I need to have Genesis content (I only have V3+V4 and a little content for them just now on this installation).

I also tried to make some categorization in the content library or said “Show in smart content > Files” with the right mouse button—but still nothing shows up on the other side ....

Does anybody know more??

(Sometimes documentation via a bunch of youtube videos is just not enough!)

Thanks in advance,

ThePatrick

Assuming the DAZ Content Management Service is running any installed content that included metadata, and which you allowed to be added to the database, should show in the Smart Content pane. It is also possible to add content that lacked metadata if you wish. However, it’s likely that any content you isntalled before DS4, even if it had metadata, will still be in the queue - however as long as you haven’t deleted any \Runtime\Support folders that DAZ installers created you can get it back by opening the Content Library pane and bringing up its menu (right-click on tab or click the button in the top corner), selecting Content DB Maintenance, and then checking the reimport Metadata option - you should then be presented with a list of items that will be added.

Smart Content are the items that have a MetaData file with them. The Metadata is what makes it smart and work properly in the Smart Content Tab. Some older files have been updated to have Metadata included but most older content like V4 and M4 do not have the metadata files and the same is true for most other older content. You can create your own metadata files but that is a long and tedious process. You still have access to all the older content by using the Content Library Tab.

Placing items into Categories will not create metadata for them but you can set up your content so you know where each and every item is for easy use by you. I hope this helps you some.

Jaderail - 29 November 2012 04:04 PM

Smart Content are the items that have a MetaData file with them. The Metadata is what makes it smart and work properly in the Smart Content Tab. Some older files have been updated to have Metadata included but most older content like V4 and M4 do not have the metadata files and the same is true for most other older content. You can create your own metadata files but that is a long and tedious process. You still have access to all the older content by using the Content Library Tab.

Placing items into Categories will not create metadata for them but you can set up your content so you know where each and every item is for easy use by you. I hope this helps you some.

Thanks again!

This was really helpful. I thought so, but again, the DAZ documentation is just inadequate.

Richard Haseltine - 29 November 2012 04:01 PM

Assuming the DAZ Content Management Service is running any installed content that included metadata, and which you allowed to be added to the database, should show in the Smart Content pane. It is also possible to add content that lacked metadata if you wish. However, it’s likely that any content you isntalled before DS4, even if it had metadata, will still be in the queue - however as long as you haven’t deleted any \Runtime\Support folders that DAZ installers created you can get it back by opening the Content Library pane and bringing up its menu (right-click on tab or click the button in the top corner), selecting Content DB Maintenance, and then checking the reimport Metadata option - you should then be presented with a list of items that will be added.

Was having this same issue for some strange reason my Daz just starting acting wierd and not showing anything in the Smart Content Pane. Thanks Richard the reimport worked

ThePatrick - 29 November 2012 05:26 PM

Jaderail - 29 November 2012 04:04 PM

Smart Content are the items that have a MetaData file with them. The Metadata is what makes it smart and work properly in the Smart Content Tab. Some older files have been updated to have Metadata included but most older content like V4 and M4 do not have the metadata files and the same is true for most other older content. You can create your own metadata files but that is a long and tedious process. You still have access to all the older content by using the Content Library Tab.

Placing items into Categories will not create metadata for them but you can set up your content so you know where each and every item is for easy use by you. I hope this helps you some.

Thanks again!

This was really helpful. I thought so, but again, the DAZ documentation is just inadequate.

There is extensive documentation on creating your own metadata in the Metadata Toolkit link in my sig. The process will be long and tedious at first but once you’ve done it a few times, it only takes 5 minutes or so to create metadata for simple products (e.g. pose or texture sets). Complex products such as figures and scenes could take up to 30 minutes.

cridgit - 30 November 2012 07:18 PM

There is extensive documentation on creating your own metadata in the Metadata Toolkit link in my sig. The process will be long and tedious at first but once you’ve done it a few times, it only takes 5 minutes or so to create metadata for simple products (e.g. pose or texture sets). Complex products such as figures and scenes could take up to 30 minutes.

Thanks for that. I did not have the time yet to review all the information available threw your links—but one idea came to me, since the SmartContent/Metadata seams to be a very valuable thing (it always is a pain to find the right content, when you have installed several products on your computer):

How would it be, to create some website/database or similar, where people can push metadata for older products they have. So it would be possible, that also old content get all the benefits, and the work is divided on the community instead that everybody has to do it.

When everybody creates metadata for one or two products—all the old products could be covered soon!

Thanks for the info!

ThePatrick

ThePatrick - 30 November 2012 07:39 PM

cridgit - 30 November 2012 07:18 PM

There is extensive documentation on creating your own metadata in the Metadata Toolkit link in my sig. The process will be long and tedious at first but once you’ve done it a few times, it only takes 5 minutes or so to create metadata for simple products (e.g. pose or texture sets). Complex products such as figures and scenes could take up to 30 minutes.

Thanks for that. I did not have the time yet to review all the information available threw your links—but one idea came to me, since the SmartContent/Metadata seams to be a very valuable thing (it always is a pain to find the right content, when you have installed several products on your computer):

How would it be, to create some website/database or similar, where people can push metadata for older products they have. So it would be possible, that also old content get all the benefits, and the work is divided on the community instead that everybody has to do it.

When everybody creates metadata for one or two products—all the old products could be covered soon!

Thanks for the info!

ThePatrick

Great idea. We’ve been talking about it since DS4 was released and have had several exchanges with DAZ on the topic. They have their own metadata team doing all the metadata now and doesn’t seem to be any interest in enabling the community to share metadata.

cridgit - 30 November 2012 10:06 PM

Great idea. We’ve been talking about it since DS4 was released and have had several exchanges with DAZ on the topic. They have their own metadata team doing all the metadata now and doesn’t seem to be any interest in enabling the community to share metadata.

But I guess, that the team does only create metadata for new products?

I also don’t think, that there are enough ressources available to create it for all the old products out there. I myself also have products, which are not available any more even in the DAZ shop (for example V3 clothing like the Nym Suit, which DAZ took out of the shop at least since a year or even earlier, but it is a great product). I hope, that metadata works also for those old products. But even for the still sold products from DAZ shop (for M3, M4, V3, V4, ...), I fear, metadata will not be provided from DAZ.

With community-support, it would be possible to cover all products and the whole community could profit from the work of one ... such as, the work would be much much less and the coverage could be really great—thus more value for the customers!

Maybe you know, which DAZ-people could help?

As last ressort, it could be also made without DAZ support. The file sizes are rather small, as I saw. So, a rather simple server with some little MySQL database or even CM-System could do the job. Maybe you would need one PHP programmer that could implement a little search and entry form. It could also be possible, that there exists a free software product that could be fitted (like CM or customizable and web-based database application).

I think, that such a project could increase the value of DS4’s “smart content” greatly. Of course, DAZ wants primarily to sell the new Genesis products .... but giving the people a clear upgrade-path will attract more people (like me! I installed DS45 just recently, since I did not feel the need for it and also not for Genesis—SmartContent could be a reason for me).

DAZ should know, that supporting the customers always pays (that is the reason, they give away D/S for free, I think), since where customers see the value, they are also ready to buy more.

But, one first step could be, to discuss this topic in a different thread in an other board ...

Best Regards,

ThePatrick

As I said, it has been discussed many times in many different threads and through personal email exchanges over the past 15 months or so. To date there has been no visible interest from DAZ in supporting community-sourced metadata. It would be a great idea for someone to set something up, but we already have lots of sites for sharing content + metadata. There are loads of metadata freebies on ShareCG for example. Feel free to contribute yours and if you want to create a new metadata freebie server that would be nice too.

cridgit - 01 December 2012 12:55 AM

As I said, it has been discussed many times in many different threads and through personal email exchanges over the past 15 months or so. To date there has been no visible interest from DAZ in supporting community-sourced metadata. It would be a great idea for someone to set something up, but we already have lots of sites for sharing content + metadata. There are loads of metadata freebies on ShareCG for example. Feel free to contribute yours and if you want to create a new metadata freebie server that would be nice too.

That is very sad!

I have seen the metadata in your thread. But it is really, really few stuff! I found only one cloth item that I own and also M4, V4. But what about M3, V3 and the others (also SP4, A4, ...) and all the standard cloth stuff (MFD, Tunic packages, Courageous, Valiant, ....) Ok, when Gen4 should be the limit, but I don’t even see those standard packages, that so many people own!

I myself don’t have the time to start such a server, sorry!

One reason is, because I own a new computer, where D/S just does not run right and DAZ just refuses to give ok support in this topic—this way blocking even more of my valuable time and I have to run in the forums to just get tiny, tiny information pieces—even to find out things where documentation should be available since 1.5 years!

I am also still mad about DAZ, because the desaster they arranged with their new shop. It is still nearly impossible to find the old documentation of the products which was available before—and to name a further hazzle: It is still not possible to see the download size of your products before you download (or to check if the download was OK). How could this be so difficult?? Or was the new shop system found somewhere in a dark alley?? Alone this things costed myself so much time. I once asked, what a product a file I downloaded was for, since I got a little confused with my old downloads and DAZ had rearanged their product names. They where not able to tell me—even the old product prefixes, it seams, they just forgot them??? I can’t imagine, what kind of desaster there must be in their shop! Databases? It seams they don’t know such a stuff or just can’t handle them.

Why should I—- reasonably—- drop of more of my valuable time, just to support such a company???

But I don’t feel, that ShareCG is the right place to do so. How could I find out what is available?? Search at ShareCG?? Are you kidding??? Search here in the boards .... that will be rather nasty.

And also—at the moment, to contribute, you must have a shareCG account, must upload there your stuff and fill out their forms with many, many entries I guess. Then you have to go to the boards at DAZ and find a place to post your contribution. (At least, there should be an extra category at ShareCG for metadata.)

I don’t think, that that works. And also if after 1.5 to 2 years of D/S 4 only your metadata is available, you can see yourself, that it does not work out!

I searched at ShareCG for “metdadata” in the “DAZ Studio” section and found only 2 entries.

I searched for “metadata” in the overall area, and mainly found entries from you. All in all 120 entries, but several where other stuff. And nothing of the standard stuff for Gen4 figures, I was talking about above. If only these standard clothing stuff could be covered, it would be a great help—but with so limited support it does not appear to me, that Gen4 is supported from DAZ at all any longer—just an other cash-cow of DAZs.

With such real results after 1.5 years, I must say, that the venture to support other/older stuff than the new Genesis content, has greatly failed.

Again: DAZ only thinks about Genesis and how to sell new stuff—but they don’t seam to see, that supporting the customers (right!) always pays.

I will not give up my old investments and jump on the Genesis bandwaggon, just because DAZ urges me to.

Now let me preface this by saying I have not gotten involved with rendering- but why this big hubbub about meta data- can’t you just do the simple click/create category and put your stuff where you want it? (And I haven’t done that, so I am using the word “simple” based on replies in another thread that say its easy smeezy.)

Novica - 01 December 2012 12:43 PM

Now let me preface this by saying I have not gotten involved with rendering- but why this big hubbub about meta data- can’t you just do the simple click/create category and put your stuff where you want it? (And I haven’t done that, so I am using the word “simple” based on replies in another thread that say its easy smeezy.)

Ok, I am maybe not the right person to answer that—but just because I read it, let me give my view of things (without any life experience in metadada at all!):

I work now for two and a half years or so with D/S and what always frustrated me, was that all the content is organized in a really confusing way. When you need something, you have to wade threw a huge deal of content and directories with sometimes rather unhelpful names.

Of course you could do that category stuff. I did not do it with D/S 3, because it did not seam to work properly or was rather slow. But even with a working category system (like it seams to work in D/S 4) then everybody has to do it and when you have much content to organize, it is much trouble. Also, you still will have to wade threw many categories .... maybe better organized, but still lengthy.

As much I understood the smart content / metadata stuff from the video—the metadata makes life really easier to you. You click on a figure, and the smart content just selects what is available for that particular figure. You click on the shirt and you just get the color options for that shirt, not for other shirts.

So it is not you, that has to wade threw the categories again and again, but the “Smart Content” is doing it for you—threw the help of metadata.

In my opinion, this would be a real help, at least when you have much content and when metadata would be available for all content! (see my previous post)

(Please correct me, if I understood metadata wrong)

Post Scriptum:

Also, when metadata would exist for all products (also legacy), than even the easy smeezy would not be needed any more, because it would be even more easy smeezy! (if I understood metadata right, of course)

ThePatrick - 01 December 2012 10:55 AM

With such real results after 1.5 years, I must say, that the venture to support other/older stuff than the new Genesis content, has greatly failed.

Again: DAZ only thinks about Genesis and how to sell new stuff—but they don’t seam to see, that supporting the customers (right!) always pays.

I will not give up my old investments and jump on the Genesis bandwaggon, just because DAZ urges me to.

Just to be clear - DAZ is busy doing metadata for their legacy products - see the “Non-Genesis Content With Metadata” thread for example. However, they decided to do this internally and have not put in place a mechanism for the community to develop and distribute metadata. Maybe the site/store fiasco contributed; maybe it didn’t.

All that would be required is the following:
1. A published metadata standard.
2. A list of all products incl. its metadata status (not available, developing, testing, available).
3. An ability for community members to register as a metadata developer (to ensure metadata developers understand and agree to the metadata standards).
4. An ability for metadata developers to volunteer for a specific product (so many people don’t do the same product).
5. An ability for metadata developers to upload their metadata to a testing area.
6. An ability for DAZ to QA the metadata and approve it for distribution.
7. Add the metadata files to the product page (similar to templates) so the whole community doesn’t need to reset their downloads to get the metadata files.
8. Fin! Everyone is happy and using metadata that we all created together.

cridgit - 01 December 2012 07:03 PM

ThePatrick - 01 December 2012 10:55 AM

With such real results after 1.5 years, I must say, that the venture to support other/older stuff than the new Genesis content, has greatly failed.

Again: DAZ only thinks about Genesis and how to sell new stuff—but they don’t seam to see, that supporting the customers (right!) always pays.

I will not give up my old investments and jump on the Genesis bandwaggon, just because DAZ urges me to.

Just to be clear - DAZ is busy doing metadata for their legacy products - see the “Non-Genesis Content With Metadata” thread for example. However, they decided to do this internally and have not put in place a mechanism for the community to develop and distribute metadata. Maybe the site/store fiasco contributed; maybe it didn’t.

All that would be required is the following:
1. A published metadata standard.
2. A list of all products incl. its metadata status (not available, developing, testing, available).
3. An ability for community members to register as a metadata developer (to ensure metadata developers understand and agree to the metadata standards).
4. An ability for metadata developers to volunteer for a specific product (so many people don’t do the same product).
5. An ability for metadata developers to upload their metadata to a testing area.
6. An ability for DAZ to QA the metadata and approve it for distribution.
7. Add the metadata files to the product page (similar to templates) so the whole community doesn’t need to reset their downloads to get the metadata files.
8. Fin! Everyone is happy and using metadata that we all created together.

Umm…and there isn’t all that much ‘development’ that needs to be done to set something like that up…all the mechanisms are in place, already.  The just need to fill in the details and set up a git or svn repository…

http://git-scm.com/about

http://subversion.apache.org/

Thousands of software projects use one or the other for both development and’/or documentation work…

And no, there is no requirement the project involved has to be ‘open source’.

Also, going that route, provides a method/standards for even freebie content to adhere to the metadata standards and be provided.

cridgit - 01 December 2012 07:03 PM

ThePatrick - 01 December 2012 10:55 AM

With such real results after 1.5 years, I must say, that the venture to support other/older stuff than the new Genesis content, has greatly failed.

Again: DAZ only thinks about Genesis and how to sell new stuff—but they don’t seam to see, that supporting the customers (right!) always pays.

I will not give up my old investments and jump on the Genesis bandwaggon, just because DAZ urges me to.

Just to be clear - DAZ is busy doing metadata for their legacy products - see the “Non-Genesis Content With Metadata” thread for example. However, they decided to do this internally and have not put in place a mechanism for the community to develop and distribute metadata. Maybe the site/store fiasco contributed; maybe it didn’t.
...

Uff!!

So, I have to reset many, many of my products??

Why was I not told that I can get these?? I don’t have the time to read through all the forums, to find out, that I have to redownload GBs of data to get the full benefit of D/S 4.

It of course is fine, that they did so much work. But a little more info would be fine, too!

I agree with what you said. Particularly with the point that they should provide the metadata as download on the product page—so supporting existing customers better!

I of couse did not want to critize you yourself! I appreciate your work you have done, but I think one alone can not cover all products and DAZ will never support freebies or products of other vendors.