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what makes the Mona Lisa smile so special?
Posted: 29 November 2012 12:27 PM   [ Ignore ]
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basically, how to make realistic facial expressions?

it’s soo hard. 

the perfect scene just falls apart if their expression doesn’t rock.

a smile doesn’t move just the lips - cheeks ball, eyes crinkle
how many billions of facial muscles are there?  doh

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Posted: 29 November 2012 12:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I don’t know… I never got the big deal about her smile… till I heard it pointed out that she is supposed to be smiling I never really noticed it… its so subtile, like she quietly passed gas and nobody noticed and she is more relieved than happy… she seems more… “not uncomfortable” than smiling.

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Posted: 29 November 2012 01:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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reading the wiki on it. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Lisa

i need the artsy things spelled out for me, i like the painting but don’t understand why.

it says : The woman appears alive to an unusual measure, which Leonardo achieved by his new method not to draw the outlines, “mainly in two features: the corners of the mouth, and the corners of the eyes”

the background looks like she’s sitting in front of another painting.

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Posted: 29 November 2012 02:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Animators use mirrors to study their own expressions to add realism to their characters. We can read really subtle muscle movements in the face, which is probably why so many people are fascinated by the Mona Lisa.  You need to use facial morphs other than just expression morphs to really capture an emotion.

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Posted: 29 November 2012 02:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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fivecat - 29 November 2012 02:38 PM

Animators use mirrors to study their own expressions to add realism to their characters. We can read really subtle muscle movements in the face, which is probably why so many people are fascinated by the Mona Lisa.  You need to use facial morphs other than just expression morphs to really capture an emotion.

Agreed. Custom sculpted morphs is the best option. This vendor does it and you can see the difference it brings to the character.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=348252

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Posted: 29 November 2012 03:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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You can do one whole hell of a lot with the Head Pose Controls in Genesis… IMHO… not everything, but quite a bit.

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Posted: 29 November 2012 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I don’t know why, but I prefer converted expressions from M4 and V4 over genesis expressions. There is something I do not like about genesis expressions. Will let you know when I figure it out LOL.

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Posted: 29 November 2012 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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wancow - 29 November 2012 03:05 PM

You can do one whole hell of a lot with the Head Pose Controls in Genesis… IMHO… not everything, but quite a bit.

That’s nice, wancow. She’s flirting a bit and about to smile. I wouldn’t trust her though, lol.

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Posted: 29 November 2012 03:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Zev0 - 29 November 2012 03:12 PM

I don’t know why, but I prefer converted expressions from M4 and V4 over genesis expressions. There is something I do not like about genesis expressions. Will let you know when I figure it out LOL.


right?  that’s what i’m trying to say.

we see an expression looks fake or toonish, but how to figure out exactly what it needs to fix it?

 

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Posted: 29 November 2012 04:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Posted: 29 November 2012 04:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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The reality is that in real life everybody’s facial muscles are different with regard to facial shape which gives them their unique looks and expressions. With these expression presets, you are applying a generic expression so that’s why there is a level of unrealism because they are not specifically designed for that face shape. A good example of this is when you buy a celeb look alike character set. They look very much like the celeb at default state until you apply an expression. Why? Because you are applying a generic expression that isn’t designed for that face.

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Posted: 29 November 2012 05:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Zev0 - 29 November 2012 03:12 PM

I don’t know why, but I prefer converted expressions from M4 and V4 over genesis expressions. There is something I do not like about genesis expressions. Will let you know when I figure it out LOL.

I"m sure that’s true… And I’d REELY like to figure out how to add those to the Pose controls after converting them…

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Posted: 29 November 2012 05:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Zev0 - 29 November 2012 04:52 PM

The reality is that in real life everybody’s facial muscles are different with regard to facial shape which gives them their unique looks and expressions. With these expression presets, you are applying a generic expression so that’s why there is a level of unrealism because they are not specifically designed for that face shape. A good example of this is when you buy a celeb look alike character set. They look very much like the celeb at default state until you apply an expression. Why? Because you are applying a generic expression that isn’t designed for that face.

Then you’re saying to get facial expressions for, say, a Jack Nicholson look-alike model, expressions that truly look like Jack, the only way is to get photographs of Jack himself, doing all those different expressions? (I know that sentence was crap - and English is my only language smile )

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Posted: 29 November 2012 05:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Observation is key.

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Posted: 29 November 2012 05:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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cjreynolds - 29 November 2012 05:41 PM
Zev0 - 29 November 2012 04:52 PM

The reality is that in real life everybody’s facial muscles are different with regard to facial shape which gives them their unique looks and expressions. With these expression presets, you are applying a generic expression so that’s why there is a level of unrealism because they are not specifically designed for that face shape. A good example of this is when you buy a celeb look alike character set. They look very much like the celeb at default state until you apply an expression. Why? Because you are applying a generic expression that isn’t designed for that face.

Then you’re saying to get facial expressions for, say, a Jack Nicholson look-alike model, expressions that truly look like Jack, the only way is to get photographs of Jack himself, doing all those different expressions? (I know that sentence was crap - and English is my only language smile )

In a nutshell yes. This vendor does that. Go through the promo images of the characters.
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=348252
Each expression is custom made for the figure it was designed for.

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Posted: 29 November 2012 06:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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To me the best thing is to go for subtle expressions. People (adults anyway) are rarely wildly overjoyed or angry or whatever. Usually they’re trying to keep things down, not cause too much fuss. Kids are more open because they don’t have to play by the same rules.

This set has some good subtle expressions:

http://www.daz3d.com/shop/100-essential-emotions-for-v4

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