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Posted: 16 May 2013 01:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 91 ]
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holly wetcircuit - 16 May 2013 10:28 AM

Guys, chill. Joe actually censored himself last night after posting one of his off-color “embellishments” on the emotional state of the proposed “Carrara movie project”.... I know most people won’t care, but I saw his post (rolled my eyes but decided to post information instead of getting offended), and I appreciated later when I saw he had removed the comment all on his own without prompting…. Joe just has a certain way of observing things, and then a certain way of passing along his observations…. There have been plenty of other crankypusses on the forum, I’m choosing to appreciate his restraint - imagine all the things he DOESN’T say. LOL!

<rant>

Meanwhile this totally bourgois idea that we “need” a narrative cartoon for the “good of Carrara” - WHILE COMPLETELY IGNORING THE ONES THAT ACTUALLY EXIST is quickly becoming my most hated topic ever. If YOU want a full-length animated “movie” then GO MAKE IT and stop trying to get someone else to do it for you, and someone else else to pay for it…. SERIOUSLY, if you can’t be bothered to click on a link (in my signature) to take 30 minutes or so to see what’s out there already, there’s a word for you: LAZY.

Stop blaming Joe. He keeps saying what Carrara users (imho) need to realize: Projects don’t get completed or abandoned because of software, they get completed or abandoned because of human resources. The people who were MOST VOCAL in the Carrara movie thread were actually the SAME PEOPLE who kept saying they didn’t want to take charge or impose a specific direction to the project…. Seriously guys, If you choose to comment but can’t be bothered to contribute the fault is completely with YOU, not Carrara or DAZ or anyone else. CHEERLEADERS DON’T WIN FOOTBALL GAMES. SOMEONE ACTUALLY HAS TO RUN WITH THE BALL. Obviously a group project can’t work without a leader, and no one wanted to go with my suggestion of keeping it smaller and independent (but loosely connected) as a community showcase (in my opinion, still a good way to START working together where no one’s feelings get hurt, and no one is held back by other people’s time commitments).

I’m going to go ahead and SAY what Joe is probably biting his lip about…. If users can’t learn to support existing projects, then it the USERS’ FAULT that finished projects are not being posted here. EVERYTIME I post links to the short films that exist, it has been ignored. *shrug* Good luck with that and I hope everyone returns the “support” when you post yours…. No one was ever able to decide what the goal of the project was, so it’s ridiculous to pretend it was ever going to spontaneously emerge from the sea as a finished short film complete with Hollywood cliches and inane sexist plotlines…. It takes a TEAM of writers and marketing gurus to come up with that crap. You actually have to work at it, and it helps if you have a narcissistic ego and play to the lowest common denominator. Remember that Big Buck Bunny ends with a fart joke….

It’s easy to complain, a lot harder to follow through to completion. The Carrara community is too cut off from the real world. We spend so much time whining that we get no love from the Poserverse, meanwhile what are WE doing to bring “REAL 3D” to the DAZzers?...? I never want to see another pre-fab hootchie dance on a dinosaur from 30ft away - that doesn’t even look CLOSE to a shortfilm made for the real world audience…. Movies start with a script, not a cool looking spaceship…. These “group projects” were designed to fail, and quite frankly that’s a good thing because failure is a LEARNING PROCESS not a reason to give up…. No one wanted to take charge, so the people with some production experience kept quiet and allowed the topic to meander to it’s inevitable non-conclusion.

Personally, I cannot be involved in any “script” or community project that does not pass the Brechdel Test. We all have our own ideas of what would be cool, our own baby epics, so let’s go work on them—the power of Carrara is that it’s easy enough to learn so the entire process CAN be done by one person… BUT don’t bother to post them here because no one cares. The project I’m most interested in following is Scifi Funk’s, but even he posts more on Facebook because who needs this tiny insulated community that can’t be bothered to support the existing animation projects that are out there…?

Come on guys. If you want to point out BAD BEHAVIOR lets look at the real reasons no one posts their projects here, and stop jumping on the people who say the un-sugar-coated truth.
• HOW do we organize?
• HOW do we work together?
• WHAT is the goal (to flatter Carrara or to flatter ourselves)?
• HOW do we learn to support the existing projects so the more can be made, bigger and better…?
If the HONEST goal is to get more animation projects out there that showcase Carrara, how come you don’t post (or analyze, or even acknowledge) the ones that ARE THERE? I think we all know the answer.

There are a dozen of those “write a novel in a month” kind of projects, ones for animation, ones for comics…. Let’s look to the BIGGER world of 3D and try to interest REAL audiences who don’t give a crap about software… THAT’S when you’ll start interesting people in Carrara’s capabilities—and for sure don’t bother posting it here because no one will care. Post it on Facebook and on Youtube and out there in the real world (look at Wendy’s subscriber numbers!!!). Users HERE just want to have fun in Carrara - and there’s nothing wrong with that. Just stop blaming other people when you can’t be bothered to do your research or make the effort yourself. No one OWES us a Carrara movie.

</rant>

You make some good points Holly, but I would point out that I said right away I wasn’t interested in the movie project as I had my own things to do. For what it’s worth, I agree with your take on it.


Quite honestly, there’s refreshing honesty and blunt honesty, and then there’s being a sarcastic jerk. You, I tend to lump into the refreshing and blunt honesty category. You can be very blunt and plain spoken, but you don’t over-generalize about “all” the forum members and go out of your way to be cruel or insult people, and when someone does take offense you don’t tend to act like a martyr.


If you want to see self editing, you should see some of the posts I’ve deleted before even hitting the submit button.

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Posted: 16 May 2013 02:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 92 ]
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evilproducer - 16 May 2013 01:24 PM

If you want to see self editing, you should see some of the posts I’ve deleted before even hitting the submit button.

LOL. *raises hand* GUILTY!!

And yeah, agree with everything you say. Participating in any community means you have to hold up to at least COMMON standards of communication…, otherwise people will lash out and excommunicate you. There’s a point where the bad outweighs any good…. And Joe has a habit of saying the worst at the end where it is most remembered (I think he works himself up as he goes along…). I like honesty. I also like self-editing…. I especially like people who put their renders where their mouths are.

I’m still up for helping with an ongoing community project that could really be for and by the Carrara community… Cafe has Groups and anyone can start one if you need a place to host…. We all have deadlines (and family and work). It would be sweet if we could hold on to the actual accomplishments though - I love Faba’s fractured fairytale (#1 in the animation playlist). I love most of Wendy’s animations because they just slap me in the face and make me laugh, and remind me that “getting stuck” is my fault, not the software…. Plenty of my favorite childhood cartoons had a charm and humor and imagination that went beyond photoreal animation….

I’d like to see some kind of monthly challenge like the NANORIMO. A little round-robin of encouragement and practice could go a LONG way to boosting morale. I don’t have the financial resources to “bribe” members to participate in a contest, but getting some honest feedback and giving thoughtful feedback in return should be the minimum participation in a community. Instead we have endless threads about *other* software and bemoaning what hasn’t happened (even when it actually has happened). That’s a lot of whinging and me me me-ism. Honestly you get out what you put in. If you were in any relationship and all you talked about was the other yards being greener and how disappointed you are…, yeah big surprise when that relationship doesn’t take you very far.

I just don’t want to work on a project that has fart jokes. For me that’s a dealbreaker. LOL

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Posted: 16 May 2013 04:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 93 ]
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holly wetcircuit - 16 May 2013 02:53 PM
evilproducer - 16 May 2013 01:24 PM

If you want to see self editing, you should see some of the posts I’ve deleted before even hitting the submit button.

LOL. *raises hand* GUILTY!!

And yeah, agree with everything you say. Participating in any community means you have to hold up to at least COMMON standards of communication…, otherwise people will lash out and excommunicate you. There’s a point where the bad outweighs any good…. And Joe has a habit of saying the worst at the end where it is most remembered (I think he works himself up as he goes along…). I like honesty. I also like self-editing…. I especially like people who put their renders where their mouths are.

I’m still up for helping with an ongoing community project that could really be for and by the Carrara community… Cafe has Groups and anyone can start one if you need a place to host…. We all have deadlines (and family and work). It would be sweet if we could hold on to the actual accomplishments though - I love Faba’s fractured fairytale (#1 in the animation playlist). I love most of Wendy’s animations because they just slap me in the face and make me laugh, and remind me that “getting stuck” is my fault, not the software…. Plenty of my favorite childhood cartoons had a charm and humor and imagination that went beyond photoreal animation….

I’d like to see some kind of monthly challenge like the NANORIMO. A little round-robin of encouragement and practice could go a LONG way to boosting morale. I don’t have the financial resources to “bribe” members to participate in a contest, but getting some honest feedback and giving thoughtful feedback in return should be the minimum participation in a community. Instead we have endless threads about *other* software and bemoaning what hasn’t happened (even when it actually has happened). That’s a lot of whinging and me me me-ism. Honestly you get out what you put in. If you were in any relationship and all you talked about was the other yards being greener and how disappointed you are…, yeah big surprise when that relationship doesn’t take you very far.

I just don’t want to work on a project that has fart jokes. For me that’s a dealbreaker. LOL

Well, there goes my idea…. downer

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Posted: 16 May 2013 04:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 94 ]
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holly wetcircuit - 16 May 2013 10:28 AM

Guys, chill. Joe actually censored himself last night after posting one of his off-color “embellishments” on the emotional state of the proposed “Carrara movie project”....

I DID?? Maybe my memory is getting really really bad, but I have no clue what you’re talking about.

And I realize that for some strange reason I’m totally fair game for any negativity or psychoanalysis you guys want to toss my way, but I’m having a real hard time figuring out what you could possibly be referring to when you say “off color”. Although I think you’re the same person who characterized me has homophobic solely because I posted an image of a monster wearing pink. But I was also accused of sending “hate mail”, which was in no way anything close, but of course since it was me it just had to be true, so everyone took that as gospel.

And I also realize I’m wasting my time even suggesting it, but maybe you guys might want to tone down the childish name calling and the incredibly rude gathering of buddies all explaining to each other why I’m such a bad person. You keep saying “it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it”, and get all upset over what you perceive to be “attacks”, and in return you viciously attack me and call me every possible nasty name in the book, feeling totally justified and proud to do it, and then you all sit around and discuss me like I’m some sort of animal in a cage.

Good lord people, I ask someone to justify their statements, and for that I deserve this insanely rude and nasty treatment by people who are always wagging their fingers at me because I’m not sweet enough? Are you serious? Instead of patting yourselves on the back for being “refreshingly honest”, try focusing on acting like adults.

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Posted: 16 May 2013 04:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 95 ]
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“In a huff”... if that jogs your memory - was a phrase you used in the deleted post…. And no I don’t recall calling you homophobic, but I won’t deny it. My memory lasts at least through last night. Your memory is apparently also “selective”. wink

I have no idea what hate mail you have sent, that’s between you and the person you sent the hate mail to.

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Posted: 16 May 2013 05:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 96 ]
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holly wetcircuit - 16 May 2013 04:55 PM

“In a huff”... if that jogs your memory - was a phrase you used in the deleted post…. And no I don’t recall calling you homophobic, but I won’t deny it. My memory lasts at least through last night. Your memory is apparently also “selective”. wink

I have no idea what hate mail you have sent, that’s between you and the person you sent the hate mail to.

Honestly, I think you’re mistaken about me and an “off color” post and self censorship or whatever. But it really doesn’t matter I suppose. I’m a terrible person until the end of time, no matter what the facts are. That’s what everyone wants to believe, so they’ll reinforce that belief any time they can. Like when I tell you I never sent hate mail, and you reply with “....the person you sent hate mail to”. Incredible.

 

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Posted: 16 May 2013 06:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 97 ]
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Okay, I had a nice relaxing swim in a beautiful ocean, so let me try to put this whole discussion in perspective in an attempt to resolve it like adults….

Let me give some examples….

Evil, you’re from Wisconsin, right? How would you respond if somebody posted here something like this:

“...and geez, just try to find a decent piece of cheese in the whole state of Wisconsin !!! Good luck…ain’t gonna happen. You’re much better off in New Jersey”

How would you respond?

And Holly, you’re a female, correct? How would you respond if somebody posted here something like this:

“...and of course women always get paid a lot more than men do for the same job…”

How would you respond?

Well, you’d probably think the statements were pretty preposterous, correct? Kinda like I felt with dartanbeck’s statement. Kinda preposterous. So would you respond along the lines of “WHAT ARE YOU, NUTS???”. Probably, huh?

So now look at my response to dartanbeck in that same light, and read it as objectively as you can:

“Oh really? How many times have you tried to get hired as a professional 3D artist somewhere? Has this happened often to you?”

Now, honestly, READING IT OBJECTIVELY and without any preconceived hatred, does my response REALLY seem that out of line? And did it really deserve all of this outpouring of derision and name calling? And no, Holly, I’m not addressing any of your responses, just using you for one of my examples because it popped into my head.

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Posted: 16 May 2013 06:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 98 ]
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JoeMamma2000 - 16 May 2013 06:21 PM

Okay, I had a nice relaxing swim in a beautiful ocean, so let me try to put this whole discussion in perspective in an attempt to resolve it like adults….

Let me give some examples….

Evil, you’re from Wisconsin, right? How would you respond if somebody posted here something like this:

“...and geez, just try to find a decent piece of cheese in the whole state of Wisconsin !!! Good luck…ain’t gonna happen. You’re much better off in New Jersey”

How would you respond?

I would ask if the person had actually tried Wisconsin cheese to make a fair comparison. I then might suggest a couple fine cheeses to try. For instance, I know a local cheese factory that makes an excellent 10 year old cheddar…. It’s so sharp it’ll pierce the eater through the heart.

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Posted: 16 May 2013 07:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 99 ]
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evilproducer - 16 May 2013 06:55 PM

I would ask if the person had actually tried Wisconsin cheese to make a fair comparison. I then might suggest a couple fine cheeses to try..

Yeah…well…okay…

I never expected you to admit you may have gone a bit overboard with the attacks and name calling, so I guess we’ll have to accept that as the closest you’ll come to an apology.

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Posted: 16 May 2013 07:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 100 ]
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JoeMamma2000 - 16 May 2013 07:09 PM
evilproducer - 16 May 2013 06:55 PM

I would ask if the person had actually tried Wisconsin cheese to make a fair comparison. I then might suggest a couple fine cheeses to try..

Yeah…well…okay…

I never expected you to admit you may have gone a bit overboard with the attacks and name calling, so I guess we’ll have to accept that as the closest you’ll come to an apology.


I wouldn’t try too hard to make what I typed into an apology. I didn’t type one.


Next time you’re floating in the ocean, turn and look down at the water. What reflects back, only you know. Of course, anything you bring with you will be reflected back as well.


There are metaphorical oceans as well. Life is a good one. So are interactions with others. They all reflect what you bring with you.

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Posted: 16 May 2013 07:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 101 ]
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[The audience members at the back of the crowd are having trouble hearing the Sermon on the Mount.]


Man: I think it was, “Blessed are the cheesemakers”!

Gregory’s wife: What’s so special about the cheesemakers?

Gregory: Well, obviously it’s not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturer of dairy products.

I haven’t looked into this for a couple of years, so thought I’d ask if there’s a workable pipeline between DAZ figures/props/pz2 files and the latest version of Blender.  (I know you can export objects, but I’m looking for a consistent way to get figures in with their morphs and textures intact, and would also need a convenient way of applying single frame and animated poses.  Didn’t know if FBX exporter or some other format captured all this in a reproducible manner.  Thanks for any information.

now what’s asking about Dart’s job application history got to do with this ?
about as much as the Sermon on the Mount wink

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Posted: 16 May 2013 08:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 102 ]
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head wax - 16 May 2013 07:39 PM

now what’s asking about Dart’s job application history got to do with this ?
about as much as the Sermon on the Mount wink

I have no idea when I’ll be in Newcastle again. But I’m buying the first 3 rounds of beer!

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Posted: 16 May 2013 08:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 103 ]
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holly saideth

I’d like to see some kind of monthly challenge like the NANORIMO. A little round-robin of encouragement and practice could go a LONG way to boosting morale. I don’t have the financial resources to “bribe” members to participate in a contest, but getting some honest feedback and giving thoughtful feedback in return should be the minimum participation in a community

.

count me in

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Posted: 16 May 2013 08:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 104 ]
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Garstor - 16 May 2013 08:03 PM
head wax - 16 May 2013 07:39 PM

now what’s asking about Dart’s job application history got to do with this ?
about as much as the Sermon on the Mount wink

I have no idea when I’ll be in Newcastle again. But I’m buying the first 3 rounds of beer!

heh, that sounds good thanks!

I should warn you that when I drink beer I laugh a lot, say really stupid things, and fall over at the end.
Come to think about it, obviously Beer doesn’t change me from my normal self.

hicuup, hiccup, stumble stumble, swagger, fall, boink. wink

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Posted: 16 May 2013 08:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 105 ]
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head wax - 16 May 2013 08:07 PM

I should warn you that when I drink beer I laugh a lot, say really stupid things, and fall over at the end. Come to think about it, obviously Beer doesn’t change me from my normal self.

hicuup, hiccup, stumble stumble, swagger, fall, boink. wink

Sounds like it will a good time had by all!

OT: I really should stop procrastinating and get my Aussie passport…

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