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Blender and DAZ figures
Posted: 27 November 2012 08:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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JoeMamma2000 - 27 November 2012 07:45 PM
Kevin Sanderson - 27 November 2012 07:26 PM

Yep they are anti-establishment in many regards. I have usually regarded Blender users as part of the CGSociety crowd, looking down their noses at pre-made content. .

Ahhh, okay…now I get it.

I guess I had misjudged Blender’s market. But yeah, now I know what you guys are referring to. The “nose-looker-downers”.  smile

I was always wondering why there didn’t seem to be a huge amount of activity with import/export between DAZ/Poser/Blender, but now it makes some sense. As we used to say, “cooties”.

A lot of that comes from the Max/Maya crowd…and gets transferred to Blender, because for quite some time, that was the ‘direct competition’.

These are the guys, who, think nothing of creating something, from scratch, to use once and then dumping it to some storage archive, never to see the light of day again…even if another project needs the same item.  That comes from the days of huge studio budgets that let a small part of that crowd get away with it…

Now, the tide is changing…more and more studios/other places are starting to value a good, working and usable archive of existing assets (yo, stuffed-shirts, there’s already a name for that…PRE-MADE CONTENT!), so the attitudes are starting to soften.

As to Blender, specifically…how can you ‘quantify’ the typical Blender user, when the user base is so diverse?  I guess the one item is individuality…

I got started with Blender, because I wanted to make a couple of Morrowind mods…and with it and the nif tools package I could do that without a second mortgage, selling a couple of kids and my left arm.

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Posted: 27 November 2012 08:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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JoeMamma2000 - 27 November 2012 06:03 PM

And here’s a tutorial step-by-step for DAZ to Blender…

http://www.art-tech.it/html/tutorial_export_daz3d_to_blender_2_5.pdf

I looked at this and I don’t think it will work anymore (at least not from DAZ Studio).  Part of the process is exporting as .dae, which as far as I know doesn’t work anymore in Studio.  Maybe out of Carrara, however.

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Posted: 27 November 2012 08:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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mjc1016 - 27 November 2012 08:03 PM
JoeMamma2000 - 27 November 2012 07:45 PM
Kevin Sanderson - 27 November 2012 07:26 PM

Yep they are anti-establishment in many regards. I have usually regarded Blender users as part of the CGSociety crowd, looking down their noses at pre-made content. .

Ahhh, okay…now I get it.

I guess I had misjudged Blender’s market. But yeah, now I know what you guys are referring to. The “nose-looker-downers”.  smile

I was always wondering why there didn’t seem to be a huge amount of activity with import/export between DAZ/Poser/Blender, but now it makes some sense. As we used to say, “cooties”.

A lot of that comes from the Max/Maya crowd…and gets transferred to Blender, because for quite some time, that was the ‘direct competition’.

These are the guys, who, think nothing of creating something, from scratch, to use once and then dumping it to some storage archive, never to see the light of day again…even if another project needs the same item.  That comes from the days of huge studio budgets that let a small part of that crowd get away with it…

Now, the tide is changing…more and more studios/other places are starting to value a good, working and usable archive of existing assets (yo, stuffed-shirts, there’s already a name for that…PRE-MADE CONTENT!), so the attitudes are starting to soften.

As to Blender, specifically…how can you ‘quantify’ the typical Blender user, when the user base is so diverse?  I guess the one item is individuality…

I got started with Blender, because I wanted to make a couple of Morrowind mods…and with it and the nif tools package I could do that without a second mortgage, selling a couple of kids and my left arm.


OMIGOSH


I started with Blender trying to mod Oblivion!  There’s still an archive of my gothy armors and spiderfolk races around somewhere on TESNexus.  Someone on an Oblivion forum I liked had started a DAZ/Poser render thread, and that’s how I found out about it and its commercial opportunities.  Actually I think it may have been Pendraia.  Here’s to you, Pen.  grin


I came in just as V4 came out.  You know, it’s weird, I don’t remember the level of complaining from people with archives of V3 clothing that there is from V4 users who don’t want to change to P9 or DS4.5.  Maybe V3 just didn’t last as long.


Having tried the current process once, I’m still waiting for more functional niftools before I finish my Skyrim stuff.  All of my mental energy for difficult workflows is reserved for actual work now. :-D

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Posted: 27 November 2012 08:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Add the fact that Blender can produce better renders than 3delight for free, and it could provide an alternative for those unable to pay for Reality but wanting better renders and with things like cloth, fluid and fur sim in addition to their preexisting content.

The number of Poser users dwarfs Blender, so it isn’t a big surprise that a some also use Blender. Blender does have cool features, I have it installed as well, but Blender is a go-hard-or-go-home proposition, and I don’t think most Poser users would tolerate this.

I don’t now the Poser scene that well so I concede that I may be wrong about this.

Cycles is nice but is still quite slow, and is also heavily tied into Blender’s nodal materials and compositing system, both of which are difficult to master (imo). I’m still not convinced most Daz users would want this, but again I don’t know too much about the Daz scene.

Really, the reality render plugin looks quite good, and if I understand it properly it works in Daz without too much hassle. Nothing in Blender is without hassle in my experience.

I think Carrara would give itself a huge boost with a good Octane exporter. At least then Daz wouldn’t have to commit resources to improving the native render, a big ask given the competition imo. And Carrara beats most apps hands down with ease of use and learning curve, especially given it’s features.

 

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Posted: 27 November 2012 08:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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_transient - 27 November 2012 08:24 PM

Add the fact that Blender can produce better renders than 3delight for free, and it could provide an alternative for those unable to pay for Reality but wanting better renders and with things like cloth, fluid and fur sim in addition to their preexisting content.

The number of Poser users dwarfs Blender, so it isn’t a big surprise that a some also use Blender. Blender does have cool features, I have it installed as well, but Blender is a go-hard-or-go-home proposition, and I don’t think most Poser users would tolerate this.

The ones serious enough to be exporting to an external renderer probably will.  That’s not a one-step process with anything right now.  And lots of content creators use Zbrush - it’s not exactly renowned for its easy interface, either, and it costs $700.

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Posted: 27 November 2012 08:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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SickleYield - 27 November 2012 08:22 PM
mjc1016 - 27 November 2012 08:03 PM
JoeMamma2000 - 27 November 2012 07:45 PM
Kevin Sanderson - 27 November 2012 07:26 PM

Yep they are anti-establishment in many regards. I have usually regarded Blender users as part of the CGSociety crowd, looking down their noses at pre-made content. .

Ahhh, okay…now I get it.

I guess I had misjudged Blender’s market. But yeah, now I know what you guys are referring to. The “nose-looker-downers”.  smile

I was always wondering why there didn’t seem to be a huge amount of activity with import/export between DAZ/Poser/Blender, but now it makes some sense. As we used to say, “cooties”.

A lot of that comes from the Max/Maya crowd…and gets transferred to Blender, because for quite some time, that was the ‘direct competition’.

These are the guys, who, think nothing of creating something, from scratch, to use once and then dumping it to some storage archive, never to see the light of day again…even if another project needs the same item.  That comes from the days of huge studio budgets that let a small part of that crowd get away with it…

Now, the tide is changing…more and more studios/other places are starting to value a good, working and usable archive of existing assets (yo, stuffed-shirts, there’s already a name for that…PRE-MADE CONTENT!), so the attitudes are starting to soften.

As to Blender, specifically…how can you ‘quantify’ the typical Blender user, when the user base is so diverse?  I guess the one item is individuality…

I got started with Blender, because I wanted to make a couple of Morrowind mods…and with it and the nif tools package I could do that without a second mortgage, selling a couple of kids and my left arm.


OMIGOSH


I started with Blender trying to mod Oblivion!  There’s still an archive of my gothy armors and spiderfolk races around somewhere on TESNexus.  Someone on an Oblivion forum I liked had started a DAZ/Poser render thread, and that’s how I found out about it and its commercial opportunities.  Actually I think it may have been Pendraia.  Here’s to you, Pen.  grin


I came in just as V4 came out.  You know, it’s weird, I don’t remember the level of complaining from people with archives of V3 clothing that there is from V4 users who don’t want to change to P9 or DS4.5.  Maybe V3 just didn’t last as long.


Having tried the current process once, I’m still waiting for more functional niftools before I finish my Skyrim stuff.  All of my mental energy for difficult workflows is reserved for actual work now. :-D

I’ve still got those armors, somewhere…and Pen’s stuff, too…

 

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Posted: 27 November 2012 09:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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The ones serious enough to be exporting to an external renderer probably will.  That’s not a one-step process with anything right now.  And lots of content creators use Zbrush - it’s not exactly renowned for its easy interface, either, and it costs $700.

Unless I’m mistaken, the Octane plugin for Poser is one step, although it’s not free. And I don’t see how content creators really prove your point since they are probably 0.1% of the user base for Daz or Poser.

I don’t think that Blender is a big problem for Carrara, or any other app for that matter. It’s usually a lack of support that cruels most apps I use, not the presence of open source software.

To me, Carrara’s main competition seems to be Daz Pro and Poser. I think this is a problem for Carrara, especially with an Octane plugin for both Daz Pro and Poser in the works. I think Carrara is a lot better than both these apps, so I hope it survives, but it’s lack of rendering options is a bit of an issue going forward imo.

 

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Posted: 28 November 2012 04:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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_transient - 27 November 2012 08:24 PM

The number of Poser users dwarfs Blender….

So now would you classify that statement as:

1. I have actual data to show that’s true, or,
2. I think it’s probably true based on some stuff I read, or
3. I have no real idea if it’s true, I just said it       smile

I’m kinda joking, but I’ve found that real, meaningful user base statistics are infamously hard to come by, for a lot of reasons. Companies who sell commercial software generally don’t let that info out, and free, open source stuff like Blender doesn’t really have a mechanism that I know of that tracks real users, as opposed to the “download, use it once, and move on” type of guy.

And for example, I own Poser but haven’t used it for years. So any company stats on registered users is likely to be skewed.

I’ve heard download numbers for Blender on the order of 1 million or more for various versions, but your guess is as good as mine to actual users who regularly, or at least semi-kinda-regularly use it.

I just assume that when something is free you’re likely to get a whole bunch of guys downloading it, compared to an app where they have to pay hundreds of $$ for it. Just seems pretty logical, I suppose. Not necessarily true, but pretty reasonable. On the other hand, they’re probably, in general, less serious about the software and have less reason to stick around.

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Posted: 28 November 2012 04:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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_transient - 27 November 2012 09:37 PM

The ones serious enough to be exporting to an external renderer probably will.  That’s not a one-step process with anything right now.  And lots of content creators use Zbrush - it’s not exactly renowned for its easy interface, either, and it costs $700.

Unless I’m mistaken, the Octane plugin for Poser is one step, although it’s not free. And I don’t see how content creators really prove your point since they are probably 0.1% of the user base for Daz or Poser.

I don’t think that Blender is a big problem for Carrara, or any other app for that matter. It’s usually a lack of support that cruels most apps I use, not the presence of open source software.

To me, Carrara’s main competition seems to be Daz Pro and Poser. I think this is a problem for Carrara, especially with an Octane plugin for both Daz Pro and Poser in the works. I think Carrara is a lot better than both these apps, so I hope it survives, but it’s lack of rendering options is a bit of an issue going forward imo.

 

One of the nice things about Octane is you can import an .obj and materials (you’ll have to tweak stuff anyway) without having to have a plugin. A plugin just makes it easier, especially for animation, So you can use Carrara right now with Octane. And when Tugpsx gets his plugin made we’ll be doing better. But I can see the fussing already about cost for an integrated plugin as evidenced by the people over at Rendo resisting face-off’s Poser plugin which in beta is 99 euro and will be more when it’s final.

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Posted: 28 November 2012 04:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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mjc1016 - 27 November 2012 08:03 PM

As to Blender, specifically…how can you ‘quantify’ the typical Blender user, when the user base is so diverse?  I guess the one item is individuality….

Actually Andrew Price did a very interesting survey of Blender users a while ago, and posted a video of the results and his analysis on his website, blenderguru.

http://www.blenderguru.com/the-big-issues/

The average Blender user is a young male, 18-25 years old, a hobbyist, relatively new to Blender, who also uses 3DS Max, and tried Blender mainly because it’s free. And less than 25% have made money with Blender.

I kind of assumed that described pretty much the average DAZ Studio user, as well as the average Poser user. And probably the average Carrara user, too.

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Posted: 28 November 2012 05:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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I’d guess that the Poser & DAZ Studio user base has more women and less geeks.

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Posted: 28 November 2012 05:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Oh, and by the way, what the hell is a “mod”? It’s a video game thing, right?

It meant something very different back in the 1960’s.

Anyway, I see it mentioned a lot in the 3D world. I guess a lot of guys who play video games use CG software to make their own stuff for the games or something?

I’ve actually never played a video game, so I’m clueless. Unless you consider a flight simulator a video game. But I got bored with that real quick.

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Posted: 28 November 2012 05:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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araneldon - 28 November 2012 05:32 AM

I’d guess that the Poser & DAZ Studio user base has more women and less geeks.

I dunno. As far as the female thing, I think it’s far less likely that women will get interested in computer games and CG software and such in general. Yeah, there are definitely women who use it, but as a hobby, for fun, it’s just not the kind of thing that most women get real excited about.

I’m sure there are statistics around somewhere….

And as far as geeks, well, I guess it depends on your definition.

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Posted: 28 November 2012 05:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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The non-geeks don’t care so much about computers in general or the technical side of computer graphics in particular, they just want to make some art or pretty pictures. These people don’t fare so well in Blenderland where you don’t find much “load & render” stuff.

As for women, it’s simply a guess based on what I see in forums like this (not so much the Carrara section but the Commons), as well as the number of female Published Artists here and elsewhere. But I haven’t actually done any counting so it may as well be a false impression.

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Posted: 28 November 2012 05:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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I just did a search and found a statistic that blew me away. Turns out that as of 2010, 42% of video gamers are women. Holy cow. That amazed me. I figured it was down near maybe half of that. Maybe 20% or even less.

So Araneldon may be closer to the truth about women and D|S or Poser. Haven’t found a stat on that, though….

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