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Posted: 03 June 2012 10:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 301 ]
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Kyoto Kid - 03 June 2012 10:14 PM
Kendall Sears - 03 June 2012 06:24 PM

[#2 seems to be almost right, but it does seem that the database migration procedures from the old system weren’t quite 100%.  It may take a while to wade through the two databases and find all of the differences.  That leaves #1 and 1A.  #1 is like any other e-commerce system… designed to be obtuse and obfuscated.  A guaranteed income generator for consulting income and support billing.  DAZ thought they had the setup right from the beta server, but something between the two installs turned out to be different.  Tracking down the differences is the task, it doesn’t help to have to dodge the rotten eggs and rocks being hurled at them from outside.

...this is precisely one of my concerns over the eBay/PayPal buyout.


With PHPBB there was no profit margin involved.  With the eBay, taking control of Magento, that has changed and we the community are paying for it. with a flaky system that is taking way to long to implement and, as mentioned, has still seems to require a lot of coding on the part of Daz’s web development team to get working right.  So where is all that support Magenta/eBay says that buyers of the Enterprise Edition are supposed to have?  If Daz has already paid for it, then they shouldn’t be in this predicament.


Yes, I’m a bit hot about this but I don’t want to see this sink Daz.  This company and community has become my family,  If it fails it would be a big loss to me.


I personally don’t think that Magento was either a good or bad choice.  It isn’t my place to second guess the decisions…I wasn’t party to the deliberations when the decision was made.  No matter what we, as individuals, may think, the people running DAZ are not idiots.  Just as the people on my board are not idiots.  DAZ chose what they chose for specific reasons, I don’t think it was an overnight, spur-of-the-moment decision by a single person.


Those of us here in the forums can only speculate on what was decided and why.  We can also only speculate on what is actually happening.  Those of us who have been through similar situations may be able to get closer to the mark; but until/unless we’re actually told what is happening we’re all speculating.


Also, keep in mind that Magento is only ONE piece of this puzzle.  And if they did, indeed, go with the commercial version and the new owners are uncooperative, there is always the drop-back to the OSS version.


Kendall

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Posted: 03 June 2012 10:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 302 ]
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DanaTA - 03 June 2012 10:03 PM
T Jaiman - 03 June 2012 09:38 PM

I wish you hadn’t got offended, but I understand it.


He didn’t use the word speculation as an insult, but in a stricter sense than the casual usage.


And no one likes to be disagreed with. (Even scientists, and that involves the most important part of their profession).


Not so much offended as wary.  I can see where this is going.  And in these forums speculation is a bad word, trust me.

And disagreement is fine…but I don’t care to be disregarded.


Dana


Disregarded?  Never.  Even when I vehemently disagree with someone, I never disregard them or their opinions. 


Since I consider you a friend, I simply used your post so that I could keep my language more toward the direction I intended.  For me, it is easier to work from a “positive” to keep positive, than to work from a “negative” and try to go positive.  I needed to lay out a lot of information that may not be well known, and needed to do so in a manner that was as neutral as I could manage.


There is a lot of information that is available that lends itself to a more clear picture of what is happening, and to a degree, why.  Many of the hard decisions that DAZ has made that have upset people here in the forums have perfectly acceptable business reasons for being made.  But those reasons do not affect the fact that there are problems with the current implementation and that those problems are affecting the customers.  I, personally, have many questions that I would “like” to have answered.  However, I will not subject the forums, or the good folks at DAZ, to questions that really cannot/should not be answered in a public forum.


Kendall

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Posted: 03 June 2012 11:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 303 ]
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...the thing with any product, be it software, a car or whatever you can be promised it is the best for your needs by the company’s marketing department.  That’s how they stay in business.  eBay is a business which needs to turn a profit. Magento used to be totally open source until eBay bought them. I’ve read Mr Kutner’s comments and tend to agree with him that the vision is muddled by the need to make a profit.  Again having someone as important as he was to to the company leave because he felt the focus was moving in the wrong direction causes me some concern.


Blender is Open Source.  The Blender community offers an incredible amount of support for its users.  On the other hand, users of the Magento Community Edition are left out in the cold.  This says to me that eBay only cares about making money from the deal and doesn’t give a rodent’s posterior about those who don’t pony up.  To me it sounds like what could have been a promising web development tool has been hamstrung by a company that only cares about their bottom line. I’ve seen this happen before.


As I already alluded to, if the Enterprise Edition is supposed to be so “robust” and have the “stellar” support as hyped then this update should have occurred on without a hitch.

Kendall Sears - 03 June 2012 10:52 PM

For me, it is easier to work from a “positive” to keep positive, than to work from a “negative” and try to go positive.

...sometimes all the positive thinking in the world cannot change the fact that just maybe a bad decision was made.

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Posted: 03 June 2012 11:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 304 ]
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Kendall Sears - 03 June 2012 10:52 PM

Disregarded?  Never.  Even when I vehemently disagree with someone, I never disregard them or their opinions. 


Since I consider you a friend…


Kendall

Perhaps not you, but others here certainly.


Dana

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Posted: 03 June 2012 11:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 305 ]
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Just a serious question… is the Magento stellar support one of those “..if you have the money” kind of deals?


It is always distressing when OSS sells out.

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Posted: 03 June 2012 11:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 306 ]
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...in looking at their pricing structure I feel it is.  To get the Enterprise Premium Package (which I would think offers unlimited support service) is around 50,000$. Not sure if Daz could pony up such an amount and by the fact they have to do a lot of extra coding on their own it sounds more like they went with a basic multi server plan instead.


...hmm that is interesting, their site just went “white screen” when I tired to link to it.

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Posted: 04 June 2012 12:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 307 ]
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T Jaiman - 03 June 2012 11:35 PM

Just a serious question… is the Magento stellar support one of those “..if you have the money” kind of deals?


It is always distressing when OSS sells out.


I’m going to step into an area where I don’t like to go… that being said:


*IS* there such a thing as stellar support when one is speaking about e-commerce solutions?  In my experience, anything having to do with a system as complex and interconnected as an e-commerce layout would be made worse by an outsider without knowledge of the particulars.


For the record:  I’ve been an OpenSource advocate since before Stallman started the GNU project.  Just because something is OSS does not necessarily make it better.  Much rides on the team in charge.  Many “OSS” projects languished until sponsorship from IBM, Sun, Oracle, or some other corporate entity started funding the core team.  Not many would consider Oracle a beacon of OSS virtue, however, they’ve been good for MySQL, VirtualBox, and arguably OpenOffice/LibreOffice.


Kendall

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Posted: 04 June 2012 01:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 308 ]
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Kendall Sears - 04 June 2012 12:04 AM

I’m going to step into an area where I don’t like to go… that being said:


*IS* there such a thing as stellar support when one is speaking about e-commerce solutions?

Hmmm…
I worked for Key3Media, the last name incarnation (before Chapter 11) of the late, great, COMDEX, the world’s largest (at the time) IT trade show producers.  At the time of the last name change, there was also a new CEO, who for now shall remain unnamed.  He came in acting like he knew our business…which he really didn’t.  Thus, he began making changes.  Our in-house systems were programmed in Microsoft Visual FoxPro.  It was extremely fast, and did everything we wanted it to do.  Our on-site system was run in MS SQL Server, with DTS solutions bringing the data from the VFP database into SQL Server.  It was beautiful, all ran extremely well.  But this new CEO decided that VFP was old technology and no longer relevant, even though MS at the time was still producing major version upgrades, and continued to after he was history.  What was his choice?  Oracle and Oracle Financials.  As he forged forward with his decisions, the company began to decline.  My department was one of the last to go.  Now as lead programmer there, I knew our users.  They liked fast.  Oracle compared to VFP, not so fast.  Oracle Financials, which ran in a browser, under JAVA, slow + slow.  But that’s OK, he didn’t agree.  However, one of the users told me one day how frustrating it was.  A process that took 30 seconds under the VFP application, now took 15 minutes!  OK.  Then he decided to replace the SQL Server system with IBM’s WebSphere.  We had a team of specialists from a highly visible and highly respected consulting firm working on the Oracle and WebSphere implementations.  By this time there was little left to the New England offices.  I was tasked with writing VFP programs that would extract all of the data from our VFP systems for import into Oracle Financials.  My programs took about 25 minutes to extract the data.  It was a lot of data, millions of records.  Our COMDEX Fall show alone averaged a quarter million attendees.  We had many shows all year long, sometimes two or more ran simultaneously in different locations, some of them in other countries.  This data then took 4 days to import into Oracle!  They, of course, would find things that they didn’t specify that they actually needed, so I’d have to modify the code, adding new columns.  I couldn’t understand why it took 4 days to import what VFP spit out in 25 minutes.  But OK.


I was laid off in December of 2001.  The New England offices closed within a few months of that I think.  The company went into Chapter 11 bankruptcy trying to make these systems work.  I asked a couple years later and was told that they never did get the WebSphere system working correctly (if at all).  The company has since come out of Chapter 11, but it is a mere shadow of its former self.


Stellar results?  Not really!  Stellar support?  I’d say you are correct…not at all stellar.  Monumental Fail?  Absolutely!


Dana

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Posted: 04 June 2012 06:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 309 ]
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DanaTA - 04 June 2012 01:06 AM

...snip…

Oracle compared to VFP, not so fast.  Oracle Financials, which ran in a browser, under JAVA, slow + slow.  But that’s OK, he didn’t agree.  However, one of the users told me one day how frustrating it was.  A process that took 30 seconds under the VFP application, now took 15 minutes!

...snip…

Dana


Oracle DB may be many things, but slow isn’t normally one of them.  Going by your description of things, either the hardware was woefully under-powered for the load (common under previously SQL Server installs) or the person/team who set it up was incompetent—when I say incompetent, I do not mean “idiots”, I mean “Not trained correctly or fully.  Not competent.”


On the human side many sites transition to Oracle thinking that the skill set from SQL-Server is equivalent.  It isn’t.  SQL-Server is a toy compared to Oracle, DB2, Informix.  It takes significantly more training to correctly operate an “Enterprise DB.”  Another issue is the hardware—Oracle is significantly more resource intensive than SQL-Server.  You’d be surprised with how many organizations “cheap out” on the hardware, or simply aren’t aware of the true needs.


Kendall

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Posted: 04 June 2012 10:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 310 ]
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Kendall Sears - 04 June 2012 06:13 AM
DanaTA - 04 June 2012 01:06 AM

...snip…

Oracle compared to VFP, not so fast.  Oracle Financials, which ran in a browser, under JAVA, slow + slow.  But that’s OK, he didn’t agree.  However, one of the users told me one day how frustrating it was.  A process that took 30 seconds under the VFP application, now took 15 minutes!

...snip…

Dana


Oracle DB may be many things, but slow isn’t normally one of them.  Going by your description of things, either the hardware was woefully under-powered for the load (common under previously SQL Server installs) or the person/team who set it up was incompetent—when I say incompetent, I do not mean “idiots”, I mean “Not trained correctly or fully.  Not competent.”


On the human side many sites transition to Oracle thinking that the skill set from SQL-Server is equivalent.  It isn’t.  SQL-Server is a toy compared to Oracle, DB2, Informix.  It takes significantly more training to correctly operate an “Enterprise DB.”  Another issue is the hardware—Oracle is significantly more resource intensive than SQL-Server.  You’d be surprised with how many organizations “cheap out” on the hardware, or simply aren’t aware of the true needs.


Kendall


I don’t know…4 days to import into Oracle?  I don’t call that speedy.  It was only millions of records, not billions!  I had routines in VFP that imported data from XML data feeds (millions of records) that took about an hour, and it was a lot of data on hotels and rooms and details.  And I used low level file routines to do it, not special XML functions…they were slower than my routines.  The Oracle database itself may not have been slow, but running in a browser, and under JAVA, as the Oracle Financials did…in 2001…that was just, as I said, slow + slow.  A system is only as fast as its slowest link.  Visual FoxPro, on the other hand, had been documented as being faster than DB2 on seeks of large datasets…and VFP wasn’t even a server-based database, it was filebased!  That’s not to say that it wasn’t run on a server and available to users over the network, of course, because it was, and even had different permissions set up, and worked as the database back end for a website in the next company I worked for…and ran quickly, I might add.


But, this is way off topic, so I’ll stop now.  raspberry


Dana

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Posted: 04 June 2012 11:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 311 ]
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chohole - 03 June 2012 02:10 PM

Now that is something new, and also the first time it has been remarked on. It maybe something somewhere in your settings, or browser settings.

I am sure that if otheres were having this probelm we would have had lots of reports, because people do like using smiles, and have been moaning like mad about the ones suppplied with ths forum software beacuse they want different ones, or more, not that they don’t display.

cool smirk

Well, I can’t see any smileys now in any posts - using Firefox, however they do reappear if I use IE9, so I guess it must be something to do with my browser if no-one else is having the problem.  I haven’t changed anything in settings recently, but I have cleared the history a few times, to try to solve the site mis-directions…..clearing my browser cache didn’t make the smileys come back either…....:(  Very strange…...I know I haven’t updated the browser or changed anything this end.  I won’t bother the poor help peeps with this, they have more than enough on their plates - guess I can live without smileys for a while. wink

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Posted: 04 June 2012 11:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 312 ]
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The smileys are showing up fine for me in FF 12.0…

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Posted: 04 June 2012 11:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 313 ]
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I’ve only read the first & last page of this thread, so I don’t know if problems like this has been addressed already…
.
I’ve lately noticed that when I start up IE and open the window on the DAZ site, sometimes I need to log back in (even though I’m supposed to have cookies enabled for automatic logging in) or sometimes I’m logged in as some random person (evidently the cookies are corrupted).
.
I HOPE this isn’t going to be a potential security issue with the new store!

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Posted: 04 June 2012 11:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 314 ]
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No it isn’t a security risk. You can’t do anything while logged in as that person. You can’t access their account, cart, wishlist, nothing without it making you log in. We have been reassured by daz a few times that all our information is 100% safe.

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Posted: 04 June 2012 12:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 315 ]
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Frank0314 - 04 June 2012 11:59 AM

No it isn’t a security risk. You can’t do anything while logged in as that person. You can’t access their account, cart, wishlist, nothing without it making you log in. We have been reassured by daz a few times that all our information is 100% safe.

Except for the information that isn’t safe:  our real names (next to a wishlist count, too).  Not everybody can afford to be outed — if my bosses found out this was one of my hobbies I would get fired as soon as they could manufacture a legitimate-sounding excuse.  I never authorized DAZ to reveal that I’m one of their customers — bad enough that this happened at all, worse that it’s still going on over a week later!  angry

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