Request for DAZ web team,,,

SdragonSdragon Posts: 0
edited June 2012 in The Commons

Can we get an update from the web team? tha administrators, while really trying, really don't know what is going on from the web development side of things. It might help to hear from a representative of the web team what progress is or isn't going on. and they might get some clues what problems are being experienced by reading the forums.

edired to fix a typo.

Post edited by Sdragon on
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Comments

  • stumpcstumpc Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    They may take the time to answer but I don't know what will be settled. It is a problem as we all know and there is an Official sticky at the top of this sub forum.If they have info it most likely will be posted there. I agree with you though, we need some explanations when they do have time to answer them so hopefully we will get some here or in the Official thread..

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,648
    edited December 1969

    They are well aware of all the problems. That is what the bugtracker is for. Every issue we are seeing is being reported. If they get a chance they will make an announcement. Personally I would rather them keep working then make a statement.

  • ssgbryanssgbryan Posts: 690
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    They are well aware of all the problems. That is what the bugtracker is for. Every issue we are seeing is being reported. If they get a chance they will make an announcement. Personally I would rather them keep working then make a statement.

    I would rather have a statement.

    Of course, I am a customer, therefore my opinion doesn't seem to matter to DAZ very much.

  • MJ_VivianightMJ_Vivianight Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Add a poll for mods to get hazard pay since I think it's going to be a looong weekend.

    Though considering that information would make their job easier...

    Seriously though, I wish more focus had been spent since the switch on stabilizing the site in general, shopping carts and payment methods, et cetera, over new releases and trying to experiment with FastGrabs.

    Just my two cents.

    Cheers and good weekend, all.

  • DAZ_ann0314DAZ_ann0314 Posts: 1,526
    edited June 2012

    ssgbryan said:
    Frank0314 said:
    They are well aware of all the problems. That is what the bugtracker is for. Every issue we are seeing is being reported. If they get a chance they will make an announcement. Personally I would rather them keep working then make a statement.

    I would rather have a statement.

    Of course, I am a customer, therefore my opinion doesn't seem to matter to DAZ very much.

    As the DAZ Staff, the moderation staff, and myself have all been posting updates as we have solid information to post, I wouldn't say customers are being ignored or that how they are feeling doesn't matter. I've personally spoken with my fair share of customers since the changeover and have been updating them etc. I have also been consistently updating the threads I sticked on the store and forum issues as new things arise or we get answers. I know the moderation staff has been doing the same in the multiple individual thread topics as well and trying to point people to the relevant information and answer questions as well. The web staff and DAZ3D Staff have to concentrate primarily on being sure the issues are properly troubleshooted and resolved which does mean that right now their focus will be on bug tracking and support tickets. Leaving the moderation staff and myself primarily to answer questions and update issues. I am sorry if you see that as customers being ignored as that isn't the intention. The intention is to make sure the right staff members are dedicated to the right tasks to resolve issues rather then pulling people from those things to update everyone on things the moderation staff is able to forward along instead.

    Post edited by DAZ_ann0314 on
  • DAZ_ann0314DAZ_ann0314 Posts: 1,526
    edited June 2012

    Sdragon said:
    Can we get an update from the web team? tha administrators, while really trying, really don't know what is going on from the web development side of things. It might help to hear from a representative of the web team what progress is or isn't going on. and they might get some clues what problems are being experienced by reading the forums.

    edired to fix a typo.

    At the moment they are using bug tracker to track down the various bug which I encourage all of you to add to here:


    https://bugs.daz3d.com


    On the right hand side you will see something that says projects, please select DAZ Web Search and then add to any tickets created with any additional information you may have and also feel free to put in a ticket on any issue you are experiencing that hasn't been covered yet.


    As for having the Web Team come in to discuss what is going on, while I agree that the web team would be able to give more specific details on what is being done, I can also attest that being in the forums to answer questions is a full time job all it's own and in doing one they would then be unable to do the other. The best thing the Web Dev Team can do for the customers here at this time is fix and resolve their issues in as timely a fashion as is humanly possible. Many of us relaying information do have web coding experience so we are not completely in the dark on what it going on.


    I do completely understand the frustration as does DAZ3D, though I don't think you all want apologies...I think you want results. We do too. Which is why things are being divided up as they are.


    If you have a specific question, please let me know and I will try my best to either answer or get the answer for you. If you feel there are multiple questions that need addressed and haven't been, again let me know. I will happily put together some sort of FAQ or something with the most asked questions and answers so they are all in one place for everyone if you all feel that would be beneficial. The moderation staff and myself are here to assist you all any way we possibly can so it would be our/my pleasure :)

    Post edited by DAZ_ann0314 on
  • bighbigh Posts: 5,424
    edited December 1969

    Sdragon said:
    Can we get an update from the web team? tha administrators, while really trying, really don't know what is going on from the web development side of things. It might help to hear from a representative of the web team what progress is or isn't going on. and they might get some clues what problems are being experienced by reading the forums.

    edired to fix a typo.

    At the moment they are using bug tracker to track down the various bug which I encourage all of you to add to here:


    https://bugs.daz3d.com


    On the right hand side you will see something that says projects, please select DAZ Web Search and then add to any tickets created with any additional information you may have and also feel free to put in a ticket on any issue you are experiencing that hasn't been covered yet.


    As for having the Web Team come in to discuss what is going on, while I agree that the web team would be able to give more specific details on what is being done, I can also attest that being in the forums to answer questions is a full time job all it's own and in doing one they would then be unable to do the other. The best thing the Web Dev Team can do for the customers here at this time is fix and resolve their issues in as timely a fashion as is humanly possible. Many of us relaying information do have web coding experience so we are not completely in the dark on what it going on.


    I do completely understand the frustration as does DAZ3D, though I don't think you all want apologies...I think you want results. We do too. Which is why things are being divided up as they are.


    If you have a specific question, please let me know and I will try my best to either answer or get the answer for you. If you feel there are multiple questions that need addressed and haven't been, again let me know. I will happily put together some sort of FAQ or something with the most asked questions and answers so they are all in one place for everyone if you all feel that would be beneficial. The moderation staff and myself are here to assist you all any way we possibly can so it would be our/my pleasure :)

    try to post in my render thread in art studio - keep getting this
    Error Message: Unable to receive your submission at this time

    so when you going to fix it - been 4 days now

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 949
    edited June 2012

    Sdragon said:
    Can we get an update from the web team? tha administrators, while really trying, really don't know what is going on from the web development side of things. It might help to hear from a representative of the web team what progress is or isn't going on. and they might get some clues what problems are being experienced by reading the forums.

    edired to fix a typo.

    I have a suggestion for them... but I suppose yours is better... and does not require obscenity flags... (oh yeah there are none yet...)

    stupid lousy rotten site change fiasco with all the stinkin' problems, I hate stinkin' magento software and the guy who sold it to them, I hope he get eaten by zombies...


    Edited to add- edited to fix a typo.... only it took 4 attempts to get logged back in.... Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!


    I luvvvvvvvvvvvv it!

    Post edited by McGyver on
  • Kulay WolfKulay Wolf Posts: 10,884
    edited December 1969

    Zombies? where are the zombies?

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,648
    edited December 1969

    One was just reported in Florida a couple weeks ago.

  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 949
    edited June 2012

    @ Miss Bad Wolf: Ummm....... don't turn around.... and try not to look tasty....

    Post edited by McGyver on
  • McGyverMcGyver Posts: 949
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    One was just reported in Florida a couple weeks ago.
    I thought that turned out to be Jeb Bush?...

  • Kulay WolfKulay Wolf Posts: 10,884
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    One was just reported in Florida a couple weeks ago.
    I thought that turned out to be Jeb Bush?...

    Or maybe it was my father? I know he is in Florida.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,648
    edited December 1969

    This was so gross. Most my fathers side of the family live in Florida. http://www.nationalledger.com/politics-crime/miami-man-eating-face-of-homeless-132892.shtml

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 957
    edited December 1969

    I agree that this is a clusterfu*k,


    I have no proof, but I think they may have been oversold on a product that clearly wasn't up to the task.
    The work of a salesman.


    It should have been a giant red flag when the new site wouldn't perform the tasks of the old one. Most of the changes I see in the store, as well as some of the changes to the PC, should be easy for the new software to handle. Instead, Daz chose to find software that couldn't meet the challenge.


    Now the software that would only take a couple of days to install is still not running correctly.


    What person decided to maintain the course? I would have demanded the company that sold them this junk send a man out to fix this disaster. If that didn't work, I would have demanded my money back and pulled the plug. This ordeal wouldn't have been allowed to run for more than a week.


    All we can do now is hope that the Daz web guys fix the crappy software or...

    just break down and put the old site back up.

    :coolmad:

  • ssgbryanssgbryan Posts: 690
    edited December 1969

    tsarist said:
    I agree that this is a clusterfu*k,


    I have no proof, but I think they may have been oversold on a product that clearly wasn't up to the task.
    The work of a salesman.


    It should have been a giant red flag when the new site wouldn't perform the tasks of the old one. Most of the changes I see in the store, as well as some of the changes to the PC, should be easy for the new software to handle. Instead, Daz chose to find software that couldn't meet the challenge.


    Now the software that would only take a couple of days to install is still not running correctly.


    What person decided to maintain the course? I would have demanded the company that sold them this junk send a man out to fix this disaster. If that didn't work, I would have demanded my money back and pulled the plug. This ordeal wouldn't have been allowed to run for more than a week.


    All we can do now is hope that the Daz web guys fix the crappy software or...

    just break down and put the old site back up.

    :coolmad:


    If they didn't buy a maintenance contract for the software, and it is pretty obvious that DAZ decided to save some money by not getting one, then the company that sold them on this software will laugh at any demand. Their requirements ended when the software arrived at DAZ.


    What should have been a red flag is this software has it's own software certification course. Does DAZ have anyone that is "Magento Developer Certified", and how much training could they possibly have when any Tom, Dick, or Harry can pay $260 for certification?


    On–Demand Online Training "Fundamentals of Magento Development" - Was $3,500 NOW FREE! (Sound familiar?)


    40 hours video training - not online, but 40 hours of video. (I am an instructional developer - this delivery method doesn't work.)


    Certification is a 70 question multiple-choice exam with a 90 minute time limit. No hands on, so there isn't actually any real testing taking place.


    eCommerce with Magento - 4 sessions of 2 hours of online training - $950


    Magento Performance & System Optimization for System Administrators 6 2 hour sessions of online training - $1850 per student.


    DAZ got took.


    As far as the old site, it isn't coming back. Full stop.

  • tsaristtsarist Posts: 957
    edited June 2012

    ssgbryan said:
    As far as the old site, it isn't coming back. Full stop.

    I agree with you. It's not coming back.


    I'm just saying that by now I would bring it back.


    They probably can't afford to shut this monster down and fix it properly without bring back the old site, but you're right, they won't bring it back.

    Wish them the best of luck. They need it.

    Post edited by tsarist on
  • s l fs l f Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    ssgbryan said:


    40 hours video training - not online, but 40 hours of video. (I am an instructional developer - this delivery method doesn't work.)

    It doesn't? Damn. Was sure that if I watched enoughed videos I'd be able to qualify as an open-heart surgeon! ;-) Well, there goes that dream. [Sorry, but you just got to laugh - it helps drown out that shrill keening sound building up in the back of your mind.]

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 7,347
    edited December 1969

    tsarist said:
    I agree that this is a clusterfu*k,


    I have no proof, but I think they may have been oversold on a product that clearly wasn't up to the task.
    The work of a salesman.


    It should have been a giant red flag when the new site wouldn't perform the tasks of the old one. Most of the changes I see in the store, as well as some of the changes to the PC, should be easy for the new software to handle. Instead, Daz chose to find software that couldn't meet the challenge.


    Now the software that would only take a couple of days to install is still not running correctly.


    What person decided to maintain the course? I would have demanded the company that sold them this junk send a man out to fix this disaster. If that didn't work, I would have demanded my money back and pulled the plug. This ordeal wouldn't have been allowed to run for more than a week.


    All we can do now is hope that the Daz web guys fix the crappy software or...

    just break down and put the old site back up.

    :coolmad:

    A thought occurred to me that I am surprised nobody has mentioned yet...the word stable, and the reason for moving to this new software. With the in-house web crew working on this thing endlessly, will it not be only a matter of time until it is a mish-mash of spaghetti that resembles that previous site, with the stability a fading pipe dream?


    Dana

  • anikadanikad Posts: 1,777
    edited December 1969

    I don't understand the menatility of not communicating with customers. It is not difficult to post up a thread to say "we did this yesterday, we're doing this today and we're very sorry but we won't be able to answer your individual questions." And then either emailing out the update to customers or emailing a link to the forums where the update is. This is basic stakeholder expectation management. Surely as a business they want to keep their customers? If customers come here, find stuff not work, find Daz HQ is not being forthcoming with updates - they'll start to go elsewhere to do their shopping, their forum chattering etc. When everything is finally fixed they are not necessarily going to come running back to Daz in the same way as they did before and that will hurt the bottom line. It seems to me that Daz thinks it can ignore the customer and the customer will keep coming back for more - it's like an abusive relationship.

  • Proxima ShiningProxima Shining Posts: 1,001
    edited December 1969

    I think it would be very helpful if DAZ puts a huge banner on top of their store website stating something like "Site under maintenance, you may encounter problems while shopping, but we are working hard on it, thanks for your patience". Because I still see people pop in the forums confused and/or angry as they came to DAZ store after several weeks or months of absence (thus for the first time since the new site launch) and have no idea what is going on. No one told them anything (notification e-mail sent to all customers would be nice I think, and people would be less angry and shocked when they encounter the bugs).

    Some of them ask in the forum right away, some attempt to first find answers in numerous threads (if they have several hours of time to read through all of them). And others, no idea how many but surely not just a few, do not bother with any of this - they just turn away in disgust, utter some swear words and go to shop somewhere else, convinced that DAZ site is a piece of trash where it is impossible or even dangerous to shop. Especialy those who came to DAZ for the first time ever will not come back, for sure.

    Why isn´t DAZ dealing with this in a way we would actually notice, is a mystery to me. Administrators wonder why customers complain about lack of communication when they are working so hard to communicate in the forums. But that´s exactly this - people have to go to forums and read a lot of threads before they learn what is going on. They should not have to do this. They should be notified via e-mail or see some statement right when they enter the shop. But for now they are just left with the impression that DAZ does not care for them at all and pushes forth the attitude: "find it out on your own, you suckers"...

    This non-communication attitude of DAZ would be fine if all problems with the site would be solved within a few days ("a few" means 2-3 days at most). But this goes on for 2 weeks already and who knows how long it will last? Customers are left in the dark, their emotions are playing wild - and emotions is something DAZ should consider because many times the impulse to buy something is not a rational but a very emotional one.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,408
    edited June 2012

    Ah but you see there are two threads at the top of the Commons, one entitled


    Known Forum Issues Curently Being Worked On and Old Forum Link


    And one entitled


    Contacting Customer Service and Tech Support and Known Store/Order Issues


    These threads are monitored constantly, and any new issues are passed on to the people most concerned with fixing things.

    Both threads have been posted by a DAZ_Admin, and are sticky threads, so they don't get lost.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Proxima ShiningProxima Shining Posts: 1,001
    edited December 1969

    Yep, and that´s about it. And info on page one of those two threads is about 2 weeks old. So if someone wants to know what´s going on right now, they must either 1) ask and feel stupid asking a question that has been asked numerous times already or 2) read all in those 2 threads (about 20 pages each) - and after reading them you still might not know anything about the issue you encountered in the store, although that is an old one and has been discussed many times in other, non-stickified threads. Also, many customers are foreigners who do not speak English very good and asking a question or trying to find an answer in the forums is a real torture for them.

    Plus, as I already wrote above, there are surely many customers whom we do not encounter here in forums at all because they do not even bother to pop in. They went to the store, found it not working, so they simply went away and will think twice before they shop there again (if ever). To address those people (who surely are not a small minority among DAZ customers) it is not enough to post some sticky threads in the forum. DAZ should do more, and does not.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,408
    edited December 1969

    THe thread may have been post some time ago, but the information on it is being kept up to date. I can assure you of that.

  • stumpcstumpc Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    You know for a business that relies completely on the internet for sales this is totally unacceptable. I can see a Mom and Pop store having these problem as they would expect their experience would be appropriate but for a full fledged digital content provider this is ridicules. It doesn't matter if you have 1 person working on it or a 100 the lack of testing and anticipation is unacceptable after all this "IS" your business. By the way, I have made a decision to not purchase anything until this is worked out and by that time any thing that I wanted will probably not be on Sale so I probably wont buy it then (Catch 22).

    I wonder, I know I'm not the only one feeling this way and if so it would show on the Bottom line.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 8,648
    edited June 2012

    The site was tested very thoroughly before it released. When they switched it over to the server and went live something unforeseeable happened. Now they are trying to clean it up. Also, some things can only be tested while live, so some of it they can't predict. DAZ is not some big corporation. They are a very small business that offers some of the best models and figures in the industry. They have maybe 40 employees working for them and every one of them are busting their butts right now trying to make things right.

    Post edited by frank0314 on
  • stumpcstumpc Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    The site was tested very thoroughly before it released. When they switched it over to the server and went live something unforeseeable happened. Now they are trying to clean it up. Also, some things can only be tested while live, so some of it they can't predict. DAZ is not some big corporation. They are a very small business that offers some of the best models and figures in the industry. They have maybe 40 employees working for them and every one of them are busting their butts right now trying to make things right.

    I'm sorry but the proof is in the putting, my post still stands,this Is their business and it now looks as if it will be judged as such. You have a humungous task as a Moderator here defending it so I wish you and all other moderators the best, as your task is going to be a rough one.

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 7,347
    edited December 1969

    Frank0314 said:
    The site was tested very thoroughly before it released. When they switched it over to the server and went live something unforeseeable happened. Now they are trying to clean it up. Also, some things can only be tested while live, so some of it they can't predict. DAZ is not some big corporation. They are a very small business that offers some of the best models and figures in the industry. They have maybe 40 employees working for them and every one of them are busting their butts right now trying to make things right.


    I find this very difficult to understand. I am not some unknowing person, I am an IT professional, and I've never seen such a huge amount of problems in something rolled out that was "thoroughly tested". Perhaps the fact that it was moved to a different server and the problems started immediately should have been some kind of clue! Maybe there is some kind of copyright protection that doesn't allow it to be moved to a different server after it's been installed and initialized? In any case, the first thing that should have been done is to take it down immediately, put it back on the original server, where everything was "thoroughly tested", and see if the problems went away. If they did, then ask Magento WTF? Has anyone even asked them for help? I can't imagine that you haven't, but I have to ask. Did you get a contract with them for help? Unless you are using the Community Edition, which is free and comes with no support at all, there should be some kind of responsibility on their behalf to help you out. Otherwise, it becomes their problem, too, because this is shining a very bad light on their product.


    If it worked so well on the original server...put it back! Make that server the live one...at least until you can get some real answers. All the work your team has been doing now is going to lead to the same problems that you were trying to get away from! You will have a mish-mash of spaghetti code and it will lose the simplicity and stability that you claim this move was all about.


    Dana

  • ssgbryanssgbryan Posts: 690
    edited December 1969

    stumpc said:
    You know for a business that relies completely on the internet for sales this is totally unacceptable. I can see a Mom and Pop store having these problem as they would expect their experience would be appropriate but for a full fledged digital content provider this is ridicules. It doesn't matter if you have 1 person working on it or a 100 the lack of testing and anticipation is unacceptable after all this "IS" your business. By the way, I have made a decision to not purchase anything until this is worked out and by that time any thing that I wanted will probably not be on Sale so I probably wont buy it then (Catch 22).

    I wonder, I know I'm not the only one feeling this way and if so it would show on the Bottom line.


    Obviously, the site WASN'T tested very thoroughly. It may have been tested to the limits of the web development team's skills, but that doesn't mean it was properly tested. It means the web team doesn't have the skill set to do this kind of deployment.


    All of DAZ's big mistakes over the past few years can be boiled down to 2 thing:s


    1. Lack of attention to detail. See DS4 roll-out, SDK, Genesis, documentation, etc.

    2. Lack of responsibility. No one in the company is held accountable for screw-ups.


    It permeates into every single decision they make - DAZ doesn't have a long-term road map for ANYTHING and they just come in to the office and wing it on a daily basis.


    DAZ is at the Mom & Pop level. Most positions are only 1 deep. DAZ continuously make the same business 101 mistakes, but the folks running the company (not the moderators - I feel sorry for the bag of snakes they have been handed.) have the egos of a Fortune 500 company.


    The "leadership" at DAZ (and I use that term very loosely) are not going to admit that they made a mistake - their egos won't allow it. At no point are they EVER going to admit here (or to themselves) that THEY had anything to do with the company potentially going into the toilet. It will always be someone else's fault - usually the customer. I don't even know if we all stopped shopping here it would get through to the "leadership" that there is a problem.

    DAZ reminds me of something one of my battalion commanders once told us in a staff meeting after getting the results of a command climate survey (the results were very, very bad):


    "We can't have a leadership problem, I am in charge." Actual quote.


    How many people with an ID that starts with "DAZ" has shown up in the forums? NADA. Any unpleasantness is fobbed on on the moderators. (And whatever they are getting paid - it ain't enough.) As a leader, sometimes you know going into a meeting that you are going to take a SABOT round to the chest. Cowering in an office doesn't help.


    A real business would be in full damage control mode right now. The CEO or Dan Farr should have shown up by now to try and smooth the waters. The "leadership" are working under the delusion that they have an infinite amount of good-will with their customer base. That could end up being a fatal mistake. And in a real company, some employees would be given a box to put their things in.


    And some of the things they throw out are insulting.


    "We know the Platinum Club folks are having fits with how we are screwing them over - we'll extend their PC membership a month"


    As a Poser user, what the hell am I supposed to do with a $6 coupon that can only be used for Genesis products?


    I have an annual membership & I am to the point of asking for a refund.

  • stumpcstumpc Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    ssgbryan said:

    DAZ is at the Mom & Pop level. Most positions are only 1 deep. DAZ continuously make the same business 101 mistakes, but the folks running the company (not the moderators - I feel sorry for the bag of snakes they have been handed.) have the egos of a Fortune 500 company.

    What I should have said by "Mom and Pop store" is they would at least have a real store to sell their goods other than the Internet which is DAZ's sole form of sales.

    You are absolutely right in all that you have said, it is looking each day as an Ego problem, the only official DAZ rep's who have responded are the few that normally get the brunt of the complaints. I've seen this pattern in the past.

    If your Business is Digital than the standard is higher, after all it's what pays the bills.

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