Genesis Texure Mapping Issues are back

kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069

...OK, since I began directly working with Genesis, GenerationX, and the Gen3/Gen4 body shapes I've been pretty content. Until this morning.

Did an experiment fitting an A3 clothing set to my GenX Steph4/Leela Fits went perfectly but since it was late I closed down and planned to render in the morning and post the results. When I opened the file today the character loaded with the skin map all screwed up. The character uses JW's Tindra Thompson skin map which is the closest in complexion to that of the actual character. Until this morning it has loaded just fine every time I loaded the character or a scene with her.

So I am wondering, what is causing this to occur now?

I closed the scene and application & restarted and reloaded the scene, but the issue still persists.

I tried to reload the UV Map but when I click on Load UV Set it leaves me in the C:/Programme Flies/Daz3D/Studio4 folder and I have no idea where to go from there to find the UV map.

I am wondering if the "Duplicate ID" error that pops up when I load the scene might have something to do with this.

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 19,838
    edited December 1969

    It's possible that there's a duplication in IDs that's leading to confusion over surface or texture IDS (either applying the settings from the wrong surface, or applying the right settings but with the wrong map). Does the skirt still have the right material zones, compared to a freshly loaded copy? Was all the work done in 4.5 - nothing that had passed through 4.0? 4.5 shouldn't generate duplicate IDs. If you would, check to see if the sceen is still bad in the new beta and if it is make a bug report, attaching your scene file and making a note of what items it contains (especially the non-DAZ stuff).

    The load UVs command wants an OBJ with the desired UV set applied to it - in this case the original OBJ for the skirt, probably. Though if it's a case of the wrong texture then that wont help - you can use the UV view to compare the modified skirt with the original as a check on that.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited December 1969

    ...actually, the clothing maps all load just fine. Same with the hair. Only the character's skin map seems to be affected.

    This was all done in 4.5 using Genesis, the GenerationX plugin and "legacy" body shapes.

    I just find it odd that the other scenes I have done with her load fine even when the Duplicate ID error message pops up.

    Also interesting that 4.5 shouldn't be generating the Duplicate ID issue yet it does on my system.

    Haven't loaded the beta because it will overwrite the current version I have, and if I run into an other issues (particularly those that may be generated due to system requirement conflicts as I am running this on a fairly old machine), I would have to roll back to the current stable version which means uninstalling/reinstalling everything.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited December 1969

    ...just thought about this, would saving the Leela character as a UV map help?

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,657
    edited December 1969

    Unless it's a remapped something, probably not...

    Select the Genesis 'root' in the Surfaces pane and look at which UV is set...for that skin texture it should be V4.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited December 1969

    ..strange, in "presets" it shows 3DU's Jasmin which makes no sense s she is not in the character mix at all.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ..strange, in "presets" all I see is 3DU's Jasmin which makes no sense s she is not in the character mix at all.

    When I click on "Genesis" at the top, nothing happens.

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,530
    edited November 2012

    Kyoto Kid said:

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ..strange, in "presets" all I see is 3DU's Jasmin which makes no sense s she is not in the character mix at all.

    When I click on "Genesis" at the top, nothing happens.

    When you say nothing happens, do you mean that the surfaces tab doesn't show you the different surfaces for that character?

    I think you're running into a fairly common issue, UV switching for no apparent reason whatsoever. As far as I can tell, it's nothing to do with anything you're doing; it's just something about Studio, and it's far more frequent with 4.0 than with 4.5. However, I'm not quite sure which steps you're following, so try the following, just to make sure we're all on the same page, and I apologize if this is a bit too basic, but it will make sure we all know what's happening.

    1) In the Scene tab, click on "Genesis", to make sure the whole character is selected.

    2) Go to the Surfaces tab. Again, click on "Genesis" to make sure all of the character's surfaces are selected. All of the different surfaces and texture properties should then appear in the surfaces tab, with names like "Diffuse color", "Diffuse strength", "Specular color", and so forth.

    3) Scroll either to the bottom or the top of that section -- whether it's the top or the bottom depends on the shaders the character may be using, and I don't know that texture. Most likely, it will be near the bottom.

    4) Under the heading "UV set", it will tell you what UVs that character is using. Almost certainly, it's using the wrong ones. Whatever it says -- or if it says nothing at all, which is also possible -- click on the little arrow next to the UV Set name. A list of all of the UVs installed in Studio will appear.

    5) In that list, click on "Victoria 4". That should restore your character to its correct appearance. If it doesn't, let us know what sorts of results you get or about any error messages that may appear.

    Hope this is helpful.

    Post edited by vwrangler on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited November 2012

    ...I have done the first two steps but the "Genesis" selection at the top of the Surfaces tab is for some reason not active. I can click on it and nothing happens. There is a Downward pointing arrow which only shows elections for "Presets" and "Unassigned" as I mentioned, clicking on the "Presets" selection brings up the Jasmin character for some reason.

    I still don't know why I keep getting the Duplicate ID message if, according to Richard, this was fixed in 4.5. This happens with every scene that I have created in the current version.

    The screenshots below should help explain a bit more. The first shows that Genesis is selected. the second is what I see in the Surfacing tab.

    mapping_issue_2.jpg
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    mapping_issue_1.jpg
    1005 x 740 - 277K
    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,530
    edited November 2012

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...I have done the first two steps but the "Genesis" selection at the top of the Surfaces tab is for some reason not active. I can click on it and nothing happens. There is a Downward pointing arrow which only shows elections for "Presets" and "Unassigned" as I mentioned, clicking on the "Presets" selection brings up the Jasmin character for some reason.

    I still don't know why I keep getting the Duplicate ID message if, according to Richard, this was fixed in 4.5. This happens with every scene that I have created in the current version.


    Something in the scene, possibly apart from Genesis itself, has the duplicate IDs issue. Simply updating to 4.5 won't necessarily get rid of duplicate IDs for things like clothing or other items besides Genesis. Those items will have to be updated or repaired separately; there's a script for that in Richard's sigfile.

    Also, if you have used GenX under Studio 4.0, sometimes it created duplicate IDs for the morphs it generated. If that's the case, you'll get the duplicate IDs message every time you load a new Genesis figure. Those will need to be deleted and re-converted. You can see which items are causing the issue in the troubleshooting log, accessible through the Help menu.


    The screenshots below should help explain a bit more. The first shows that Genesis is selected. the second is what I see in the Surfacing tab.

    Well ... the screen shots help explain some of the confusion. You need to be in the Editor section of the Surfaces tab, not the Presets section. (I didn't even realize there was a Presets section until now.) The button for that is next to the Presets button in your screen shot. When you click on that, you should see something vaguely like what I've attached in the screen shot below. (And I do mean "vaguely"; your interface is configured very differently than mine.) Depending on the character's texture, either at the top or the bottom, you'll see the UV Set option, like the one the arrow is pointing to. Whatever it says, reset it to Victoria 4, and all should be back to normal. (Even if it says Victoria 4 already, go ahead and toggle it to something else, then back to Victoria 4 again. Can't hurt, since it doesn't seem to be working.)

    That said ... I think someone with more experience of the different DS modes will need to take it from here. Based on that first screen shot, I think you may be in a mode that won't allow you to select surfaces -- UV Mapping, maybe? I have no idea; I've never seen that wireframe-like look in DS4, so I'm not certain.

    Anyway, I hope this is helpful.

    surfacesTabEditor-1.png
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    Post edited by vwrangler on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited November 2012

    ...I just included the first one to show that I had Genesis selected. before switching to the Surfaces pane. I switch to wireframe view before rendering (to a file rather than the viewport) to save memory load as I am on an older system with limited resources.

    ...I'll take a look in the Surfaces pane again. Didn't realise I needed to be in the "Edit" tab.

    I only worked with Gen 4 characters in 4.0 and didn't start using GenX until after I updated to 4.5 so there should be no "leftovers" from 4.0x.

    As to the script, it needs to be run on every item used in each scene individually (as well as all my Genesis characters)? That sounds a little bit daunting and extremely time consuming. To me that says there is a bug in the software that needs to be fixed as it is either not overwriting files completely during saves or closing them properly when the app is shut down thus creating the duplicate ID entry.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,530
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...I just included the first one to show that I had Genesis selected. before switching to the Surfaces pane. I switch to wireframe view before rendering (to a file rather than the viewport) to save memory load as I am on an older system with limited resources.

    ...I'll take a look in the Surfaces pane again. Didn't realise I needed to be in the "Edit" tab.

    I only worked with Gen 4 characters in 4.0 and didn't start using GenX until after I updated to 4.5 so there should be no "leftovers" from 4.0x.

    As to the script, it needs to be run on every item used in each scene individually (as well as all my Genesis characters)? That sounds a little bit daunting and extremely time consuming. To me that says there is a bug in the software that needs to be fixed as it is either not overwriting files completely during saves or closing them properly when the app is shut down thus creating the duplicate ID entry.


    The script only needs to be run on those items causing the issue, which isn't necessarily everything in the scene. And it shouldn't necessarily need to be run on your Genesis characters. (Although, if the presets are DSF rather than DUF, it's not a terrible idea to run the script before you use them.)

    Studio can't overwrite the source files -- the original presets and morphs -- during a save. That would be truly very bad computer procedure; it would essentially mean that presets would be unusable more than once in an unaltered state. As long as the original files remain unaltered by Studio during that process, as they should, you'll have the duplicate IDs issue. Beyond that, Richard or someone else DAZ-related can speak to the issue of duplicate IDs with far more authority than I can.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited December 1969

    ...it's just that i never experienced this with older versions of the programme. I guess what it really is missing on is remembering all the instructions which put everything together when a saved scene file is reopened. So it sounds more like a possible issue with the "file save" process than the "open file" one.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,657
    edited December 1969

    Part of the problem is that DS is now being a lot more strict in the way it handles things. It's actually sticking closer to the 'standards' than in the past, so some things that may have worked, but weren't correct, will no longer work.

    Yeah, it kind of sucks when someone wakes up one day and discovers that the developers decided that the file standards were actually something they should have been enforcing all along...and changed it mid stream to actually enforce them.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited December 1969

    ...so does this mean I need to reinstall a lot of content to rid myself of these warnings?

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,657
    edited December 1969

    If there are updated versions of it...probably more than a good idea.

    At the very least the script should be run on an as need basis. Right now, for the most part it's an annoyance to have the warnings, but it could become (and in your case may already be) a real problem.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited November 2012

    ...that would also mean having to reset a tonne of downloads and re-download stuff. That is a major league pain.

    ...sorry, but to me that is a huge time wasting "bug".

    ...why can't those with the knowledge and savvy figure out how to fix such issues so those like myself don't have to go through all this? I am no IT expert yet find I have to deal with IT issues.

    ...rather unhappy about all this right now.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 8,781
    edited December 1969

    Updated Genesis Products List & Thing To Be Aware Of

    Having to deal with IT issues is part of this no matter how you look at it or blame others even if deserved. :) I think that is one aspect people don't realise. The amount of things I have learnt about computers in general from doing this is an eye opener.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited December 1969

    ...I really like what I have seen and done with 4.5 and Genesis, but if I have to spend as much or even more time dealing with "geek" issues than I do creating scenes and rendering them, it becomes diminishing returns considering the little free time I have available. I was attracted to this because of the "intuitive" nature and "artist's" approach this software had compared to working with CG in the "old days". Unfortunately the way it is appearing, this seems to be drifting away from "Intuitive" back into the overly technical.

    This Duplicate ID issue is a bug because it adversely affects the software's performance and detracts from the users experience especially when it results in errors like what I have experienced here. To spend hours, (more like days) re-downloading and reinstalling everything because it cannot be determined just which of the items are causing the error and which have been "updated" is a huge investment of time that pretty much diminishes the enjoyment of the hobby (and there is no guarantee it will solve the issue).

    Troubleshooting a lighting, pose of clothing fit issue prior to rendering is one thing. Dealing with flaws and bugs inherent in the software which have a negative affect on it's performance should be the responsibility of the software's developers, not the users who pay for these products and services.

    If I bought a new car that turns out to have a factory defect which makes it perform poorly or not at all, it goes back to the dealer as the manufacturer, not myself, is responsible to effect the needed repair.

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,530
    edited November 2012

    EDITED TO REMOVE MAJOR SNIT FIT. My apologies; I should know better.

    DeSnitted version:

    The manufacturers -- in this case, DAZ and the content providers -- are fixing the errors. Unfortunately, at the current time, Studio can't automatically push out fixes to you, at least not yet, or notify you that the content has been updated.

    Also unfortunately, the DAZ maintained updates forum went the way of the dodo/the old forum. (That said, it was only just before the demise of the old forum that they were able to start announcing updates in it again; I don't know why they didn't start it up again with this forum.)

    In theory, the new content manager, whenever it makes its appearance, will be able to go through your runtimes and/or metadata and/or order history, figure out what you've got, what version it is, communicate with the DAZ servers, and (this part is a guess, not anything anyone has said) the next time you go into Studio, you'll get a message saying something like, "Hey, these products have been updated. Want me to download and install them? If so, click Yes, then go away for a while, because I'm going to be a bit busy for half an hour or so." (That said, if you've changed directory locations, as many people do, the metadata won't match, and you're likely to have issues if you let Studio handle the installation on its own. But that's another subject.) However, it's not at all clear how long it will be before they deploy the install manager, and I would expect a very rocky start when they do.

    All that said ... were you able to fix the UV problem with your character?

    Post edited by vwrangler on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited November 2012

    ...as to the UV issue, Nope. Most likely it has to do with this Duplicate ID thing that is substituting an incorrect UV.

    Between the Update List and my content library it's going to be slow going.

    I am having to switch between four separate windows to do this process:

    --The Update List,

    --The folder where the original files are archived (so I can check the version I have against the Update List).

    --The History Manager (so I can pinpoint the dates I purchased the files and check off what needs to be reset).

    --The downloads page on the Daz site (where one has to sift through not only the mac .zips but he "legacy" installers as well and Dl the item twice because of the new "Poser Companion" file for DSON).

    In addition I need to have my AV's UE open in case any of the installers are flagged and quarantined (which has occurred several times already just with items in the V5 Pro Bundle because of the the updated installer file).

    In short, an absolute pain in he bum. Now it would be nice if, like on the old site, details such as release version and file size were already listed as this way it would have been captured by the Directory Manager and I could eliminate two windows from the process.

    The way I see it, this is going to take at least several weeks, considering all the items on the list I need to reset and DL and the fact I can only download on weekends from a hotspot (since my connectivity from home is extremely poor with numerous timeouts and network resets). Add to this, the website's flakiness from time to time and I'll be lucky to get everything installed by January.

    ..and I have maybe less than half the number of Genesis items compared to others.

    That's a bleedin' long time to either work "hamstrung" with these errors continually occurring while everything is slowly being updated, or not do any 3D work at all until it is finished. This is why I find this whole issue more than just a bit frustrating. My 3D work is all I have to relax with on my off time, but it seems as if it is feeling more and more like the day job I'm trying to forget about when I get home.

    One fix they could do in the meantime is include a "history" in the Duplicate ID error dialogue box that lists the "offending" item(s) (similar to the 3Delight rendering dialogue that lists 3Delight errors). This way one can note down the items and reset/DL them afterwards.


    -----


    Edit. Discovered that the DL page lists the version but not the Itemised Order History list. This again would be a big help.


    Apparently many of the updated installers I've dealt with tonight alone are so "new" they triggered false positives from my AV requiring yet an extra step to release them from quarantine status.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 1,530
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    In short, an absolute pain in the bum.

    Yep. That's pretty much why I just threw up my hands and decided that if it wasn't making noises at me and I wasn't having other issues, I wasn't going to bother, unless there were other reasons to reset and redownload the item.

    One fix they could do in the meantime is include a "history" in the Duplicate ID error dialogue box that lists the "offending" item(s) (similar to the 3Delight rendering dialogue that lists 3Delight errors). This way one can note down the items and reset/DL them afterwards.

    It would be nice if the duplicate ID error told you where it was finding the error, I agree.

    That said, you may be still able to find which product has that issue, up to a point. Immediately after getting one of those errors, go to Help menu > Troubleshooting > View Log File. That will bring up the text log file. Do a search for the word "duplicate", and it will tell you which morph(s) is/are throwing off the error. Depending on what the file is, you should be able to tell which product has the issue. Since, in this case, you'll be looking at a composed scene, rather than having just double-clicked on a preset, you should keep repeating the search until you hit the end of the log file. The only downside is that it gives you the name of the morph file, rather than the name of the product, so depending on the name of the individual morph file, it may be more difficult to tell which product the morph file is attached to. If it is more obvious -- for example, if it says "Duplicate ID found in PHMLeela01.dsf" or something like that, for example -- you'll know what to reset and redownload.

    Apparently many of the updated installers I’ve dealt with tonight alone are so “new” they triggered false positives from my AV requiring yet an extra step to release them from quarantine status.

    People have reported a lot of errors with Norton, and some oddball forum issues with Kaspersky. Unfortunately, I don't know how to fix those, since I don't use either.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited November 2012

    ...yeah, as I understand most AV's have become so "paranoid" that they'll flag almost anything. In a way I fon't mine as that means it is working, but yes, it also can be a real bother sometimes as in the case of new Daz installers.

    Finished with today's session. Have to wait until next weekend to DL the next batch

    Even the new forum software is "touchy" as it will reject posts written in a certain manner because it interprets them as spamming.

    ...sometimes I still miss the old forums.


    ...scratch that, I miss the old forums all the time.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited November 2012

    ...OK, this is not good, the updates are not triggering the uninstallers from the previous version.


    [edit]

    Now I am really concerned and confused When the Uninstall dialogue box comes up I click "yes" but no progress monitor for uninstall process comes up like it supposed to do. The utility sits there for a few moments and then just completes the install routine.

    Has there been a change to how the installer handles uninstalls of older versions?

    Not going to reinstall anything more until I find out what in the bleedin' heck is going on.


    This is the kind of thing that makes me just a little irritated and frustrated over wasting so much time with "non productive" tasks.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,657
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...yeah, as I understand most AV's have become so "paranoid" that they'll flag almost anything. In a way I fon't mine as that means it is working, but yes, it also can be a real bother sometimes as in the case of new Daz installers.

    Finished with today's session. Have to wait until next weekend to DL the next batch

    Even the new forum software is "touchy" as it will reject posts written in a certain manner because it interprets them as spamming.

    ...sometimes I still miss the old forums.


    ...scratch that, I miss the old forums all the time.

    Yeah...unfortunately, that isn't something DAZ can control. Most forum software is going that route, no matter which one it is. Just one more reason that spamming should be a crime punishable by death...or at the very least, a very public flogging.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 16,069
    edited December 1969

    ...with old serial cables. ;-)

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