Digital Art Zone

A quick check in google or the forum search did not provide an answer to the question:

Why are there legacy versions of new DS content being released?

Are the following assumptions right:
DS4.5 Pro is still for free.
To use Genesis content in Poser one needs the DSON format.
The poser companion files work together with the Core installers.

Why do I bother?

I noticed that DAZ seems to be rather a small company with only a few employees that are very busy working behind the scenes converting products to the DSON format and creating metadata.

Nevertheless I now noticed that for quite a few products the metadata for the old legacy installers was done right but then the metadata of the CORE version was missing.

My question:
If DAZ obviously is working with very few people that have an insane task ahead. Why is time and effort invested to release LEGACY products that are only compatible with old DS4 versions?

I can understand that old LEGACY products are kept online but why bother the release new ones?

Would it not be the obvious choice to say:
Lets support the latest version of our software and use our limited time and manpower to do that job right?

Examples of products that I installed and found lacking content:

- Epic Wings (at version 1.6 now and still not working properly in CORE and LEGACY versions.

There are some people who still use DS 4 and many who still use DS 3.  Even Some who use DS4 or DS 4.5 for some work, will go back to using DS 3 for other work.

chohole - 22 November 2012 10:50 AM

There are some people who still use DS 4 and many who still use DS 3.  Even Some who use DS4 or DS 4.5 for some work, will go back to using DS 3 for other work.

The DS3 part I understand in so far that many addons and plugins were released that were not converted.
But the DS3 users can use neither CORE nor LEGACY installers. Therefore LEGACY installers are not released for the DS 3 users.

- - -

I do not understand the DS4 part. I purchased allmost all DS4 addon, plugin products and I cannot think of any that I would miss in DS4.5.

I remember that I was rather not happy not having GenX around at launch of DS4.5 but what else is there that was crucial to any DS4 workflow that is still not available in DS4.5?

So what is it that keeps people from upgrading to a free DS4.5 pro version?

It really must be something extremely important if it raises the need to provide LEGACY installers. Which feature am I missing here’? I am sincerly puzzled at this whole LEGACY - CORE thing. I obviously was absent from the forum for too long that I do not know about it o.O

Fear, ignorance and the fact most of the user base are completely computer illiterate, so the idea of jumping through a few hoops scares the **** out of them.

Lower spec computer, no funds to get a new one tends to be the most common reason, but there are others.

Bear in mind that I doubt anyone is creating Legacy versions for content being built in DS4.5; the products that have Legacy installers are ones that predate 4.5, so the older version already exists.

I think would be more productive make an incremental upgrade for DS3 and DS4 to support the new DSON file format. The new file specification could be supported at least by DS4, once DAZ has deprecated support to DS3. Does it make sense?

Thank you all for your inputs! They have given me a good overview over different perspectives.

fixmypcmike - 22 November 2012 11:33 PM

Bear in mind that I doubt anyone is creating Legacy versions for content being built in DS4.5; the products that have Legacy installers are ones that predate 4.5, so the older version already exists.

Interestingly enough my last shoping spree seems to confirm that.

The result of that statisticly probably not representative sample yield mixed results:

- The large majority of those products seem to have CORE, LEGACY and Poser Companion files.

- The texture sets I purchased for the Hio Bundle have CORE and Poser Companion files.

- The dynamic clothing like Dynamic Sailor Girl comes only in LEGACY version.
(Its seems to be a specific file type of its own anyway.)

- Some files are neither CORE nor LEGACY but just old school Gen4 like “Dinner Food”

- Cloud City was an interesting one:
CORE and POSER Companion files.
A special obj version called GENERAL CONTENT - gc in short. that was a new one for me.
but no legacy version

- Cyborg V4 came with a special naming convention called POSER CORE
At first I was not sure what that was supposed to be and am still not.
Its not really a Genesis version sow how can it be CORE?
Its more like old school Gen4 as well.

- Dark Embrace was the first product I downloaded to only features a DSON CORE version

And how was the metadata done?

Oh well

- Addison that I grabbed as “free” product by spending more than 30 had half way done metadata included.
File type and categorization was not done so it would not show up in Smart Content or Tabs

- Urban Future 4 Psy District had no metadata at all included

- Curator Aquarum had no metadata at all included

- Stephanie 5 Elite Texture Joanie was missing the preview image in the /runtime/support folder so no preview image would show up in smart content

FAZIT:

17 products purchased 4 of them are missing features after installation.

This sample is right about representative of my other latest shoping experiences. About a quarter of the products I install seem to be missing metadata features when installed.

- - -

What seems sure is that shopping at the DAZ store has become more and more complex with different file types and different software versions supported.

I really hope this transitoin phase with a lot of updating of file types and metadata will sort itself out soon.

If there’s one thing I learned from this thread it’s that Daz is a smaller company. Given that I’ve been using Daz products for as long as I can remember, I’d always imagined this massive team with hundreds of artists and developers. Just makes me admire their work all the more.

On-topic though, I don’t see any harm with them supporting their earlier software though I can understand the frustration at losing the metadata on your installs. There are a lot of reasons why people choose not to upgrade, so continuing to support their paying customers is only good business practice.

I still use DS3A for most NONE Genesis renders and other reasons, Plugins not updated to DS4 being one of the big ones. The Legacy installers are Perfect for me because they do not contain data I do not NEED on my HDD in DS3.

Jaderail - 23 November 2012 09:06 AM

I still use DS3A for most NONE Genesis renders and other reasons, Plugins not updated to DS4 being one of the big ones. The Legacy installers are Perfect for me because they do not contain data I do not NEED on my HDD in DS3.

Now I am confused again:

I thought LEGACY installers are for the “old” Generation 5 Genesis formats like .dsf / .dsa

The CORE installers contain the “new” DSON Generation 5 Genesis formats .duf.

Generation 4 content uses the .dpc / .ds installers. Is there also a cool word for those? Is POSER CORE the term that now is used for them?

( I noticed that term being used for the V4 compatible Cyborg V4)
As far as I understood Genesis cannot be used with DS3 at all. So I do not understand how you would be able to find any use for LEGACY installers for DS3?

I thought the main reason from upgrading Generation 5 content from .dsf / .dsa was that Poser users can now use the new .duf files with some Poser Companion files. But all that really has nothing to do with DS3 at all.

hmm is there a sticky somewhere that gives an overview of the different file types and the terms used?

I was talking about the OLDER content that has has been updated. Not the Genesis Items. I’ve had Five of my older content come in the three File format when I did a Reset for them.

linvanchene - 23 November 2012 09:16 AM

Jaderail - 23 November 2012 09:06 AM

I still use DS3A for most NONE Genesis renders and other reasons, Plugins not updated to DS4 being one of the big ones. The Legacy installers are Perfect for me because they do not contain data I do not NEED on my HDD in DS3.

Now I am confused again:

I thought LEGACY installers are for the “old” Generation 5 Genesis formats like .dsf / .dsa

The CORE installers contain the “new” DSON Generation 5 Genesis formats .duf.

Generation 4 content uses the .dpc / .ds installers. Is there also a cool word for those? Is POSER CORE the term that now is used for them?

( I noticed that term being used for the V4 compatible Cyborg V4)
As far as I understood Genesis cannot be used with DS3 at all. So I do not understand how you would be able to find any use for LEGACY installers for DS3?

I thought the main reason from upgrading Generation 5 content from .dsf / .dsa was that Poser users can now use the new .duf files with some Poser Companion files. But all that really has nothing to do with DS3 at all.

hmm is there a sticky somewhere that gives an overview of the different file types and the terms used?

 

 

There are one here: DSON File Format Specification. The .duf files are not exclusive to Genesis figure, indeed is a new file format to hold since a Figure/Prop asset to Material/Poses/Shapes presets.

Unfortunately some new installers for DS brings the assets and presets in the 2 flavors: the old .daz and .ds or .dsa, and the the new .duf. The new installers for the GIS series or Moonshine series as example. It is annoying, because at least you have 2 files of each prop and preset present in the product. Worse, if you decide delete the .daz directly from your content library the .png preview file gone together because it is shared by both files, the .duf and the .daz.