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Is it just me… I just don’t spend my money at Daz anymore
Posted: 13 December 2012 12:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 91 ]
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HeraldOfFire - 13 December 2012 11:33 AM

Out of pure interest, what issues are present when working with Genesis models in animation? Should I decide to use them in future, it would help to know the potential pitfalls.


I’d be glad to share my experience with you. remember you did ask.
I have been trying to work with daz4 and genesis for about 9 months.

when making animation have the ability to use and have special effects like smoke and waves and fire are very helpful
Unfortunately there are no tools that work in daz4 for those effect accept particle fx which i already own for daz3 & poser so I’m not buying another copy of it. and i have yet to be able to get the Nerds VFX tools to work they way they do in Daz3 $ poser though age of Armour effects cameras are very helpful.

Sometimes with certain morph characters set. you load into genesis using the v4 genesis morphs and then a v4 morph such as Godins VH Bernadette and ready your scene for animation ..  when you ad a aniblock to the character on the timeline the face and body morph reverts back to the default Genesis male shape, that is very frustrating. because the ani block was designed for the .DAZ file format not DUF Genesis mesh

when you ad a aniblock to genesis the feet curl up specially with the fighting aniblocks., though I’ve learn how to fix that thanks to Mr Mcasual.  But add a pear of m4 boots to genesis with autofit tool and some time the shoes and boots will crunch up. like a beer can on the characters feet. ..lol nd that don;t have to be animated for it to happen.
some old gen clothing will fly off during the animation cycle will fly back on at the end of the cycle. and even baking the key-frames to the timeline doesn’‘t seem to fix it.  though i am hoping with the new keymate from go figer that will resolve some of those issues.  but for now I’m not buying it for experimentation , I’ll wait to see what others can do with it.

when you save a scene using autfofit tool   you loose the fit you had before you saved the scene on reload.and you have to use the smoothing modifier to fix it, which you shouldn’t have to do.

with some of the Genesis own clothing morphs such as with the MFD the poke through on the animation cycle is just beyond be able to fix them unless you do to every key-frame one at a time and at 300 key-frames that can take a very long time

the user interface does not allow me to drop the animate time line to the low end of the screen still attached to the daz program. where i can get a longer lay out. I have to undock it and then it falls behind the program when working with something else., also i have a much less view work space, which with my tired old eyes is not a good thing..lol
also the UI is very bulky for key- framing animation.  so for that reason I stop using daz4 I still have it loaded and play with it now and then but i don’t buy nothing for it anymore.  But if the peasant clothes and the 1950s genesis clothes ever become available in .DAZ or PZ3 format I’ll be one of the first to buy them. smile

 

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Posted: 13 December 2012 12:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 92 ]
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So the complaints about animation are mostly about Daz Studio faults and not really about Genesis correct? I agree Daz Studio is terrible for animation. I wouldn’t use it for that myself.

Doesn’t sound like much of a Genesis issue, more of a DS issue. For example exporting, rigging and animation a Genesis figure in a better animation package and things would go better.

I personally don’t like aniblocks either. I don’t like the lack of control for animation in DS, but I’m ok with it simply because I use DS for it’s strengths and use other tools for other things. DS is great for setting up a character!

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Posted: 13 December 2012 01:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 93 ]
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Ivy - 13 December 2012 12:26 PM
HeraldOfFire - 13 December 2012 11:33 AM

Out of pure interest, what issues are present when working with Genesis models in animation? Should I decide to use them in future, it would help to know the potential pitfalls.


I’d be glad to share my experience with you. remember you did ask.
I have been trying to work with daz4 and genesis for about 9 months.

when making animation have the ability to use and have special effects like smoke and waves and fire are very helpful
Unfortunately there are no tools that work in daz4 for those effect accept particle fx which i already own for daz3 & poser so I’m not buying another copy of it. and i have yet to be able to get the Nerds VFX tools to work they way they do in Daz3 $ poser though age of Armour effects cameras are very helpful.

Sometimes with certain morph characters set. you load into genesis using the v4 genesis morphs and then a v4 morph such as Godins VH Bernadette and ready your scene for animation ..  when you ad a aniblock to the character on the timeline the face and body morph reverts back to the default Genesis male shape, that is very frustrating. because the ani block was designed for the .DAZ file format not DUF Genesis mesh

when you ad a aniblock to genesis the feet curl up specially with the fighting aniblocks., though I’ve learn how to fix that thanks to Mr Mcasual.  But add a pear of m4 boots to genesis with autofit tool and some time the shoes and boots will crunch up. like a beer can on the characters feet. ..lol nd that don;t have to be animated for it to happen.
some old gen clothing will fly off during the animation cycle will fly back on at the end of the cycle. and even baking the key-frames to the timeline doesn’‘t seem to fix it.  though i am hoping with the new keymate from go figer that will resolve some of those issues.  but for now I’m not buying it for experimentation , I’ll wait to see what others can do with it.

when you save a scene using autfofit tool   you loose the fit you had before you saved the scene on reload.and you have to use the smoothing modifier to fix it, which you shouldn’t have to do.

with some of the Genesis own clothing morphs such as with the MFD the poke through on the animation cycle is just beyond be able to fix them unless you do to every key-frame one at a time and at 300 key-frames that can take a very long time

the user interface does not allow me to drop the animate time line to the low end of the screen still attached to the daz program. where i can get a longer lay out. I have to undock it and then it falls behind the program when working with something else., also i have a much less view work space, which with my tired old eyes is not a good thing..lol
also the UI is very bulky for key- framing animation.  so for that reason I stop using daz4 I still have it loaded and play with it now and then but i don’t buy nothing for it anymore.  But if the peasant clothes and the 1950s genesis clothes ever become available in .DAZ or PZ3 format I’ll be one of the first to buy them. smile

 

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Posted: 13 December 2012 01:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 94 ]
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Going back to the initial message:

I’ve become wary at the store. The first and fixable reason is that the database doesn’t look for duplicates. It’s all well and good to say we should “take responsibility,” but tracking a DAZ purchase is a nightmare. The product name is often neither the download name nor the file name. Why? Who knows? Every time I download a multiple file purchase, I end up with at least one duplicate, because the names on my download log are not the same as the ones on the Downloads page. This has always been a problem (I’ve been a member and customer on and off for more than ten years, going back to Vic 1.0). But at least before the “new” store if you added something to your wishlist, you got a warning if it was already there and if you added something to your cart, you got a warning if you had already purchased it. I think there was even a time when, if you bought something on your wish list, it was removed from your wish list.

More devastating to my purchasing plans, however, is the ridiculous nightmare DAZ has made of installing their purchases. I have Victoria 4.2 installed in Poser, but DS4.5 can’t see it. Why? Danged if I know. Because I chose “poser” on the install; if so what am I supposed to do, install her twice? I have Genesis installed, and just purchased the head and body morphs. They’re installed, but I can find them. i have Steph 5.0 installed (Steph has always been my favorite figure), But she doesn’t seem to have the Genesis morphs, or much of anything else, including the Jenny textures I purchased and installed. And there is no documentation for 4.5 that I can find.

After essentially wasting money on the Genesis morphs, I think it will be a long time before I open anything in DS 4.5 again, and even longer before I make any impulse purchases here.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 03:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 95 ]
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From a casual glance of the Daz store I see a huge increase in Genesis related content, which makes perfect sense for Daz to do, but I found DS4 too restrictive so I don’t use Genesis, however if something comes along not figure specific I’m apt to purchase.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 03:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 96 ]
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larsmidnatt - 13 December 2012 12:35 PM

So the complaints about animation are mostly about Daz Studio faults and not really about Genesis correct? I agree Daz Studio is terrible for animation. I wouldn’t use it for that myself.

Doesn’t sound like much of a Genesis issue, more of a DS issue. For example exporting, rigging and animation a Genesis figure in a better animation package and things would go better.

I personally don’t like aniblocks either. I don’t like the lack of control for animation in DS, but I’m ok with it simply because I use DS for it’s strengths and use other tools for other things. DS is great for setting up a character!

yeah it’s all about animation and missing dynamics, physics to the program.
it’s not genesis that ‘s fine.

Dazstudio 5, hellow, june 2013?

 

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Posted: 13 December 2012 07:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 97 ]
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It may be too soon after the release of the DSON Importer, but it seems to me that there has been another increase in Genesis only products.  Which would be understandable, but I hope the vendors who previously still made Gen 4 and native Poser products will continue to do so and that they haven’t decided because of DSON to stop making Gen 4 / native Poser products.

Using Genesis products in Poser is still too hit and miss as to whether the result is acceptable.  Granted, that is subjective.  But my experiences with DSON has convinced me to NOT buy Genesis products unless it’s the $1.99 PC product, and even then, I’m not buying many of those.  So, I’m still not spending all that much money at DAZ.  Though I spent more in October and November than in other months this year, my spending for the year is still far below what I’ve spent in other years.  Now that the 70+% off sales are done, I don’t see my spending increasing for Genesis products or at DAZ.  I’ve spent very little during the Snowball Savings.  50ish % off isn’t a sale after two months of 70% off raspberry

Bottom line?  I still prefer Gen 4 products over Genesis/Gen 5 products because Gen 4 is more reliable in Poser, and V4/M4 still pose better in Poser than Genesis.  Genesis’s crumpled shoulders is not an improvement over the V4/M4 shoulders ... which are easily fixed, while Genesis’s crumpled shoulders are not.

I’ve also not purchased products because it was confusing whether it was DSON or whether it wasn’t.  If a product has Poser format figures/props, why is it being marketed as DSON?  Or is this whole thing just as confusing to the vendors as it is to the customers? 

I do like how easy it is to make a creature out of Genesis, but I don’t like how horribly most clothing fits those creatures.  All my creatures can’t be naked, you know.


Well, that’s my 10+ cents worth. 

StratDragon - 13 December 2012 03:32 PM

From a casual glance of the Daz store I see a huge increase in Genesis related content, which makes perfect sense for Daz to do, but I found DS4 too restrictive so I don’t use Genesis, however if something comes along not figure specific I’m apt to purchase.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 09:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 98 ]
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Totte - 13 December 2012 09:52 AM

Why are 80% of all fantasy outfits for females? I know Genesis is ambigenderous, but male fighters in high heels looks dreadfully right out stupid wink

Arguably female fighters in heels tend to look stupid too but it’ll keep happening.  Honestly wish they’d restructure a few of the starter bundles but doubt that’ll happen.

What’s intriguing me is that while the new store is…questionable…recent email solicits I’ve been getting have been much better targeted.  While I’ve been hesitant to use them, it at least felt like good deals that would be useful.  I wonder if there needs to be more specific suggestions on what the store needs to fix.  Granted, a lot of them should be common sense and should have been done in the first place but I wonder if a second start could be done now that some of the more colossal site problems have died down.  However, I have a feeling there won’t be any major updates until after the holiday season.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 11:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 99 ]
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luxgabu - 13 December 2012 10:51 AM

When I decided to get serious about 3D as hobby I joined the PC a year ago but it is unlikely I will renew when it expires in February.

I like genesis and Studio 4.5 although I resisted the move for a while.

But I am now buying next to nothing from DAZ - why?

When I joined I didn’t really have any firm idea of what sort of images I wanted to create but I now do (although that will probably change as I get more experience). I suppose you would call the category cyber punk or scifi punk and there is next to nothing that DAZ is releasing for genesis or gen4 that fits into that. All this wholesome 50’s stuff that is currently coming out just repells me as well as most ‘skankwear’ (I think it has been called). I am spending my money elsewhere where there are PAs producing more ‘edgy’ stuff that I can use.

I haven’t used the PC coupon for several months now and I don’t want to buy stuff just because it is a bargain and I can’t see any use for it.

It is a pity because I think DAZ needs our support.

...I felt the same concerning 4.5 and Genesis though because of hardware issues as I am on an older system.  I have learned ways to make 4.5 work under the strict memory and Open GL limitations I deal with. 

I do agree about the “fare” of the content. offerings

While I have always supported the idea of “normal” everyday clothing, most of the 50s offerings are dated for my needs as well.  Like yourself I am into Cyberpunk and “near future"stories/settings. My big disappointment is the continued emphasis Daz places on Fantasy (for example consider the current “Dungeon” promo). 

Never was much into high fantasy, magic & all OK, I do have a soft spot for the fey, but that is about it).  When they do something on a sci-fi theme it is usually more “futuristic” and utopian (well save for Stonemason and AntFarm).

Would love to see more content done in the cyber/post apocalyptic style.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 11:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 100 ]
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I’m really into sci-fi. But what I want is practical futuristic clothing for male and female female and everyday clothing from different walks in society. I’m not into overly smexy, I want functional, but also realistic.  I also am looking for detail. That means holsters and belts and pockets, and less tights and slippers and form fitting stuff. I would love wrinkles and tears, and that sort of thing.

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Posted: 14 December 2012 11:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 101 ]
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LeatherGryphon - 18 November 2012 06:52 PM

I still use Studio3 so any products that I buy are usually older products that I get just because they go on sale and help complete my collection.
<snip>
But even many of the new architectural items that have geometry files that will work in Studio4,  unfortunately have texture files and lighting files intended specificically for Studio4 so they are incompatable with Studio3.

Every product I make is compatible with both DS 3 & 4.5. I made a conscious decision to keep on supporting the older DS 3, partly because I don’t like DS 4.5, and partly because there’s no need for architectural items to be in the new format. So don’t worry - my products will work for you for a very long time.

One of my beefs with DS from the very beginning has been this lack of compatibility with older versions, and the constant updates, forcing both customers and PAs to keep chasing their tails. I can understand PAs who make Genesis content using the latest version, but for anyone else, there’s no need to reduce their customer base unnecessarily.

mac

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Posted: 14 December 2012 12:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 102 ]
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HeraldOfFire - 13 December 2012 10:39 AM

What I am curious about, however, is why there is this great enmity for Genesis.

.
I have no enmity anymore for Genesis.
V4, V3, V2 worked in whatever DazSudio version (and Carrara after 6)  you had, with no funny business. I installed V4 in (I think) Daz1.8.
Props and hair for V4 could be (and I have done it) used in older versions of the software.
.
Genesis was such a radical shift and people weren’t ready for something that far out. I personally expected V5 to be a refinement of V4. It turned out to be something completely different.
.
Lack of documentation and Carrara/Poser non compatiblity didn’t help matters.
.
Not trying to start a fight, just trying to answer the posters question.
.
To Anyone who likes Genesis, I’m happy for you and no offense was meant or implied.

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Posted: 14 December 2012 12:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 103 ]
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maclean - 14 December 2012 11:02 AM
LeatherGryphon - 18 November 2012 06:52 PM

I still use Studio3 so any products that I buy are usually older products that I get just because they go on sale and help complete my collection.
<snip>
But even many of the new architectural items that have geometry files that will work in Studio4,  unfortunately have texture files and lighting files intended specificically for Studio4 so they are incompatable with Studio3.

Every product I make is compatible with both DS 3 & 4.5. I made a conscious decision to keep on supporting the older DS 3, partly because I don’t like DS 4.5, and partly because there’s no need for architectural items to be in the new format. So don’t worry - my products will work for you for a very long time.

One of my beefs with DS from the very beginning has been this lack of compatibility with older versions, and the constant updates, forcing both customers and PAs to keep chasing their tails. I can understand PAs who make Genesis content using the latest version, but for anyone else, there’s no need to reduce their customer base unnecessarily.

mac

Thank you I Appreciate that you still support daz3 and pz3 poser files.  I’m sure that it helps in sales for supporting multi versions of daz. , I wish most the venders did.  Peace.! smile

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Posted: 14 December 2012 12:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 104 ]
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Ivy - 14 December 2012 12:50 PM

Thank you I Appreciate that you still support daz3 and pz3 poser files.  I’m sure that it helps in sales for supporting multi versions of daz. , I wish most the venders did.  Peace.! smile

.
Ditto!
.
Thanks maclean

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Posted: 14 December 2012 12:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 105 ]
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I stopped shopping here since V5 and Genesis came
I do have the DSON thing for POSER, but as they still (after a month or more) do not have shape of a Genesis for it..
It is useless

What I still get from Daz is the Danie and Marforno material and StoneMason

The rest is no longer important

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