How do I create Textures?

tdrdtdrd Posts: 0
edited December 1969 in Hexagon Discussion

I know I've been doing a shirt on another thread, but this thread relates to modelling textures...

I am after a material similar but not exactly to the example below...

I have Paintshop Pro, and Photoshop and have had no success in either.

What does everyone else use and how would they achieve mats like the example below please

Thank you.

darcy_brown_checked_shirt.jpg
630 x 550 - 72K
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Comments

  • MedzinMedzin Posts: 294
    edited December 1969

    There are several methods to use.

    Use a sample of material that contains basic design pattern,
    then make it seamless by removing one row from bottom and left side
    Insert that into pattern stamp tool of Photoshop and paint new texture on template of clothing.

    You can also google "seamless fabric" or similar and obtain a great many resources already done in this manner

    Less successful is finding picture of clothing in approximate shape as UV template and pulling it into shape.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,231
    edited December 1969

    Until you UV map the shirt, there's not really any point, because the textures won't work.

  • tdrdtdrd Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I thought UV mapping was part of the process of attaching materials - I'm soooo confused here...

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    UV map it, lay out the map so that it makes sense to you and export the template. In Photoshop draw the texture on layers. The texture will only "take" on the lines of the UV template - the blank areas will not show any texture. Be sure that the template is fully covered, or make the template layer invisible, collapse the layers and save as .jpg, png or other format. Import that into Studio under the surfaces tab, diffuse.

    Alternately, you can paint the texture directly onto the shirt in Hex, or use a 3D paint app like Blacksmith (the paint only version is free) Blacksmith does automatic UV mapping, but doesn't give you a template you can use to make subsequent texture variations - you will have to paint each variation from scratch.

  • tdrdtdrd Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    OK - so I have gone to uvmapping and selected the region for the shirt body...
    I then selected cylindrical UVMapping (because it started with a cylinder...
    I then saved the resultant area as a BMP...
    What now???
    Am I best doing it as a cylinder or as a flat surface???
    How can I get the garment flattened out?
    I know I'm a dimbo but I honestly haven't a clue!

    Thanks

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,231
    edited November 2012

    Here's a shot of the UV mapping I did for it...

    I used Blender which allows you to make seams to split the item along. There are other programs with that ability too, but I don't think Hex is one of them. I find it one of the easiest methods of mapping around.

    Yeah, it could use a little clean up to minimize stretching and even out some of the areas, but for a quick map it's fine. Also I wouldn't worry too much about it if there are any mesh edits planned. A map like this is fine for plain, solid color textures or to get an idea on how tiled ones would look. But as a 'final' map, I'd clean it up first.

    tshirt6a.png
    1024 x 1024 - 602K
    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • tdrdtdrd Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    EEEEH! Mine looks nothing like that - mine looks like a strangled octopus!

  • afreaginnameafreaginname Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    tdrd said:
    EEEEH! Mine looks nothing like that - mine looks like a strangled octopus!

    Welcome to the world of UV mapping!

    UV mapping can be one of the most complex issues you'll face when modelling. There are SO many ways of "getting the job done" that it becomes an art unto itself aside from the actual modelling.

    Many people start with a primitive (which maps very cleanly) and then deform the primitive to create the model. Unfortunately, this only works as long as you don't add/remove a single vertex. Doing so destroys the mapping.

    Most people map their model using material domains after the model is finished. This allows you to work on discrete sections of a mesh without having to untangle the rat's nest presented by mapping the entire model.

    Most folks here use a 3rd party app for mapping (I use UVMapper pro, but there's a free version available), while others, such as Mjc mentioned, prefer programs like Blender. I've seen a few other dedicated mappers mentioned often in these threads (and will probably get mentioned in this one) that get rave reviews by the users.

    I find Hexagon's unwrapping tool difficult to decipher, but that could be because I'm used to using UVMapper. UVMapper also let's you save texture templates in exquisite detail while Hexagon's templates are just plain cheesy.

    Hexagon does use seams in it's unwrapping scheme, and another tool called "pinning". I believe Roygee in a past thread mentioned that he figured out how to use Hex's unwrapping tool using these pins to achieve a satisfactory layout.

    Bottom line is that there's no simple one-size-fits-all magic bullet answer we can give you on how to map your shirt.

    Just take a deep breath and relax because this could be a wild ride, but when the smoke clears you can end up with a nicely formatted UV map. :)

  • tdrdtdrd Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I've been looking at some tutorials on UV mapping but not really any the wiser because they are all mapping a single flat surface.
    I'll look at uvmapper and see what it can offer....
    I am limited to free versions at the moment having spent my budget buying this new computer out of my redundancy money a couple of months ago.
    I figured I may as well have a decent PC since i'm going to have a bit more free time for a while.
    Oh well - i'll see what I can find - thank you.

  • tdrdtdrd Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I've downloaded UVMapper - loaded the object file and the picture I got is as shown below
    What am I supposed to do with THAT!

    tshirt6_-_copy.jpg
    2000 x 2000 - 2M
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,231
    edited November 2012

    With UVMapper, the 'cleanest' result is Planar, Z axis alignment...

    screen25.png
    1280 x 1024 - 135K
    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • GhostmanGhostman Posts: 211
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:

    I used Blender which allows you to make seams to split the item along. There are other programs with that ability too, but I don't think Hex is one of them. I find it one of the easiest methods of mapping around.

    Actually Hex does this as well and it's really fast. Just go into Edge mode and select all the edges you want to split then go to UV and click the Head and then Validate. Downer is that you have to move all the islands into the uv space since hex lines it up outside the uv space.
    Nowadays I just export it once I determined where I want it to split and then use UV Master in ZBrush to make the final map.

  • tdrdtdrd Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Ah! I'm guessing UV isn't UV as in photography... it's something to do with 2 dimensional projection.
    I read that xyz already used in 3d so uv was used instead????

    OK - so if I want my collar to have a different material do I save this map to a seperate file to work on it?
    Same for the arms and main body - seperate files????

  • JimmyC_2009JimmyC_2009 Posts: 8,247
    edited December 1969

    You can just save all of the UV Mapped parts to the same UV template. That is the whole idea, so that you can paint each area with a different colour (or texture) in Photoshop. When you paint on to the template, 3D programs know where to apply the different parts to the UV model, assuming taht you have re-saved the OBJ file after creating the Template?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,384
    edited December 1969

    AS a texturer I have to say that the original UV map that MJC showed is the one I would choose to use. It reflects how a shirt would be put together in realy life, and thus would produce the best textures for it. Ithe UV grid lines are nice and clean, and thus wouldn't produce too much stretching or deformation of the material used to create any textures.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    Glad you popped in chohole - a chance to get a very informed opinion from a pro:)

    I've never needed to texture a shirt - I'm more into mechanical type modelling - but take for instance the plaid texture that tdrd wants to do. My gut feel is that I agree that the first one produced by mjc1016 is the one to go with. i would be inclined to stitch it together, then overlay the back and front so that the texture pattern would line up at the sides and not produce an ugly seam.

    What approach would you take to get the plaid pattern to line up?

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 19,384
    edited December 1969

    Well if you make a shirt for real, the parts that he has on his telmplat is how you would cut it out, so often Plaid doesn't match up on the semas. Me though I would play around with it while texturing, to try to get at least a horizontal match. Ie I would make a layer with a square swatch of the fabric, and then do test renders to see how the UV grid lines are matching up.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,231
    edited November 2012

    chohole said:
    Well if you make a shirt for real, the parts that he has on his telmplat is how you would cut it out, so often Plaid doesn't match up on the semas. Me though I would play around with it while texturing, to try to get at least a horizontal match. Ie I would make a layer with a square swatch of the fabric, and then do test renders to see how the UV grid lines are matching up.

    This is using a Fabricator preset.

    It isn't too bad, and the big mismatch across the front is that the mesh itself actually dips that way. In addition to the UV being slightly skewed...The combination makes it a bit more 'off' than it should be...

    With a little work on the UV it can be made to look pretty good.

    billed.jpg
    800 x 1000 - 104K
    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    Thanks for the info, chohole:)

  • tdrdtdrd Posts: 0
    edited November 2012

    Sorry not been back in touch - spent Sunday night in hospital with angina...
    I would like to understand how to create a map like above and then apply a texture to it.
    Do you have to physically paint over the texture map or overlay it somehow?

    Thanks

    Post edited by tdrd on
  • afreaginnameafreaginname Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    tdrd said:
    Do you have to physically paint over the texture map or overlay it somehow?

    Yes, exactly.

    Once you have the UV map laid out to your liking, each poly on the UV texture map corresponds to a specific face on the 3D mesh.

    A UV map is just the skin of a 3D model laid out flat.

    Whatever you "paint" on that 2D area will be wrapped around the 3D mesh when you render it; each poly on the UV being placed on its corresponding poly on the mesh.

  • RedSquareRedSquare Posts: 0
    edited November 2012

    I have Paintshop Pro, and Photoshop and have had no success in either.

    In either, load a duplicate of your UV template, create a layer(s) and paint your texture or place your seamless photo on the layer(s). That's the theory, I'm useless at it. :red:

    EDIT: but read.....afreaginname..... Which he summarised eloquently above.afreaginname

    Post edited by RedSquare on
  • tdrdtdrd Posts: 0
    edited November 2012

    OK so i've downloaded blender but it's a devil to get anything working.

    I've loaded the object in (at last) but cannot find any means of splitting eams or creating UV meshes.

    Are you sure this is the right software - blender.org???

    It's not user friendly to the newcomer is it - i've got nowhere.

    The manual says use Mesh >unwrap but it does not tell you where to find these options.
    It's been written by someone who knows what they are doing for people who already know the interface.....

    I'm beginning to wonder if this hobby is worth all the messing about...

    I've had to learn Hexagon, Bryce, Studio and now the principles of UV Mapping and blender.

    It's a little too much for me to absorb.

    Post edited by tdrd on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 7,231
    edited November 2012

    No, Blender isn't exactly 'user friendly'...at least until you get used to it (and it's taken me several years to really get to that point).


    But...here's a quick run through.

    When you first open Blender, it should load with a cube in the middle and if you look down at the bottom, there should be a little box saying Object. If you hit the 'A' key, that should select/deselect All..now if you click on the box, ith will b a drop-down menu. One of the items is Edit...click it. You are now in Edit mode. The options along the bottom have changed and so should the list of things on the left hand side...

    In the middle of the various icons on the bottom, there is a series of three...the first should show a 'point' in a brighter color, the second a line and the third, a square. Select the line...that's for 'Edges'.

    Now on the cube if you place your cursor along an edge and right click on it, you will select that edge.

    Then, when you've selected the edge, look over on the left, you may need to scroll through but there will be a box, "Mark Seam"...click it. The edge will now be bright red. After you've marked that one, go ahead and select several more edges...thinking about how you would like the object to look when cut along those seams.

    After you've selected and marked your seams, hit the A key (you may need to do it twice...but when everything is orange, you are set...). Then one the left, hit "Unwrap"...it's right above "Mark Seam". You'll be presented with several options (choose Unwrap as that's the automatic one).

    Now, on the very bottom should be another pane...and a little box on the very far left...click on it...a drop down (well, in this case drop up?) will appear...choose the "UV/Image editor". This will turn that bottom pane into the editor window...you'll need to drag the separator bar up some or find a magnifying glass....

    01.jpg
    631 x 2000 - 102K
    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • tdrdtdrd Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    @mjc1016: Thank you very much for the above - most greatfully appreciated.
    I know this isnot a blender group but your tips above will be of huge benefit not only to I but others venturing into this minefield.

    Thank you again very much.

    Terry

  • tdrdtdrd Posts: 0
    edited November 2012

    OK - i've been struggling with Blender but have come across an idea...
    Is it possible to split the shirt into unfolded sections in Hexagon without actually disassociating the object seams?
    Like in Blender - you don't actually cut the material.
    The problem I am having in blender is rotating the object in the screen. There does not seem to be a very good live rotate within the screen so it's very difficult collecting all the correct points to make the seam - and I miss the loop feature in Hexagon.
    I've tried having the shirt body as a shading domain and applying material to that but it's not very good that way as the material stretches over the wide points - a checkered pattern loses it's uniformity.
    I'm pleased with the level of support with blender but it's too much for me to take in another piece of software at the moment.

    I'm having to brush up on my programming (VB.NET/ ASP.NET / PHP / Javascript) and web development (Dreamweaver / CSS)languages at the moment whilst seeking work and learning Daz Studio / Bryce / Hexagon and then uvmapping is all getting a bit too much for me to handle. I'd love to really get into the CG modelling but the materials are just going one step too far if I have to use blender.

    So to simplify - is it possible to section clothing up into areas for uv mapping within hexagon itself rather than use another third party software - even if it's not as good or a little more long winded (because Blender is not easy to use or manipulate by any means).

    Thank you everyone for the feedback
    Terry

    Post edited by tdrd on
  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 1,885
    edited December 1969

    Despair not - Blender is...well, its Blender:)

    Hexagon is fully capable of doing what you want - although it has no idea of proportions and you will probably have to eyeball scale some parts to get the proportions correct. As for rotating and scaling, etc., once the unwrap is done and validated, you use the normal modelling tools to select and manipulate the UV's, just as if it was a mesh.

    In this very quick and nasty example, I marked seams along the sides and around the arms, then from both sides of the neck to the seam around the arms - see the blue lines. Then I marked pins - see the green dots (ignore the centre green dot - that is not a pin, but the centre of the bounding box.)

    The process is very simple - with the mesh selected, go to the UV & Paint tab, select the head icon. Mark the seams by selecting edges. In the properties panel, make sure "Seams" is showing and hit the + sign. Now mark the pins, make sure "Pins" is showing and hit the + sign.

    Hit validate, then you can select faces, edges or verts on the UV grid and rotate, resize as needed.

    Always better to do the UV mapping after the modelling is done and before smoothing - this makes it easier to identify and select edges. Once you are happy you can then add smoothing.

    shirt.jpg
    800 x 464 - 54K
  • tdrdtdrd Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    @Roygee: Thanks for that - i'll give it a try - much appreciated.
    Terry

  • tdrdtdrd Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I understand the seams - not the pins... what are they?

  • DaremoK3DaremoK3 Posts: 386
    edited November 2012

    Hello tdrd (Terry)...

    I am not going to contribute with details, but instead refer you to this thread with all the details (and visuals) to help you understand UV mapping better:

    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/984/


    There are already a lot of helpers in this thread who have given you valuable advice. I think you just need to see some differences explained to help saturate everything, and help you further in your mapping endeavor.

    Pay attention to the examples I give regarding bad mapping (UV Mapper default "planar" mapping), and opposing "good" mapping with custom seam lines and "flattening" (in UVLayout, Roadkill, and Blender).


    If, however, you are hellbent in continuing to map in Hexagon, I recommend you view the UV mapping tutorials for Hexagon over at Geek At Play Studios here:

    http://www.geekatplay.com/hexagontutorials/begining.php


    This will help you immensely, so you don't have to ask about every little detail when mapping in Hex.

    Post edited by DaremoK3 on
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